Disappointedly happy with 8.04

[Jim Shunamon]

First let me say hello Jereme and how good it is to have you back. I hope all of the previous troubles are behind you for good, and that you and your family are all doing well. :)
I was very excited to find the listing on Distrowatch for the new 8.04 version of Ubuntu CE. I eagerly downloaded it and popped it into my cd drive to have a look at the new version of the best distro out there. That's when the disappointment hit. :(
Almost all of the details that made this distro different from plain old Ubuntu seemed to be missing, from the simple small things like the menu button with the christian fish to the (Gasp!) lack of E-Sword, which for me was the application that I practically lived on in Ubuntu CE.
As far as I can see, besides a nice wallpaper on the desktop and the inclusion of the Virtual Rosary application, this is no different than the regular Ubuntu Hardy that is installed on some other computers that I have access to. In fact it seems to be missing some features like startup manager just to name one.
The few included Bible programs like Gnome Sword and Bible Time are readily available not only for Ubuntu, but many other distros as well (I use both on openSUSE.)
The thing that originally set Ubuntu CE apart from the rest for me was the inclusion of other Biblical resources like E-Sword and The Word being already configured in Wine and ready to run. The Wine implementation was so good under the 7.04 version that I was able to get other programs like Interlinear Scripture Analyzer to install and run just by downloading the .exe file and clicking it.
For now I am going to just stick with the 7.04 version on my Linux box and see if I can get my wife to let me install 8.04 on her Windows machine and try to play with Wine and E-Sword and some of the other programs, but I this is really not my area of expertise. In the meanwhile I will awaiting the next release of UbuntuCE in hopes that it will somehow set itself apart from the rest of the pack again.
This is just my two-cents worth, and I know that you can't please all of the people all of the time. Keep up the good work, and God bless. You and your family remain in my prayers.

><> Jim Shunamon <><

[david_kt]

The thing that originally set Ubuntu CE apart from the rest for me was the inclusion of other Biblical resources like E-Sword and The Word being already configured in Wine and ready to run.

To install e-sword on any linux distribution, you could try below instruction:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=404042

DK

[Jim Shunamon]

Hi David,
Thank you for your reply. I actually already read through all of the pages in that post before I even posted my letter. That is what I will try if my wife consents to let me use some of the available space on her hard drive to install and test this. This does not, however solve the problem of getting the other applications like The Word and the Interlinear Scripture Analyzer running under Wine.

The main point for my post (and my dissappointment) was that after such a long wait, the new 8.04 is nothing more (and in some cases something less) than the regular Ubuntu Hardy, just with a different wallpaper and a few Bible applications commonly available in Linux. Everything that set UbuntuCE apart as a distro "out of the box" so to speak is gone.

If I was going to upgrade to Hardy just to have the latest code I may as well just install the regular Ubuntu Hardy version and download the few Bible applications that are so commonly available.

Since I need serious Bible study software with certain features, I have no choice but to not upgrade at this point and hope that things change for the better in the future. I don't want to have to go back to being enslaved in the world of Windows again, so for now I feel that this is my only course of action. :( :( :(

><> Jim Shunamon <><

[cjm5229]

Wine has actually released it's first stable version finally (Wine 1.0) Try installing those Apps directly and see how they work. If it complains about a missing dll just check david_kt's howto on eSword and install the missing dll's. I find that a lot of Windows Apps are work really well in the new versions of Wine.

[Jim Shunamon]

Hello,
thank you. I will try this approach over the next day or two and report back on the results.

God bless you all for all of your help :)

><> Jim Shunamon <><

[cjm5229]

I just tried them, I installed The Word version 3.0 beta, works great and has a new module that will let you install resources other than what come with The Word. ISA also installed with no problem and looks great. This isn't UbuntuCE I'm using, it's Intrepid Ibex. If it works here it should also work in 8.04 or any other Distro with the latest Wine packages.

[Jim Shunamon]

Thanks that's very encouraging.

I am going to try and see if I can figure out how to free up some space on my hard drive later and give this a try.

><> Jim <><

[david_kt]

Thanks that's very encouraging.

I am going to try and see if I can figure out how to free up some space on my hard drive later and give this a try.

><> Jim <><

I will monitor this thread, just post any problem for your wine installation and I will try to figure it out for you.

DK

[Jim Shunamon]

Thank you David, I will do that. It may be a day or so before I can repost anything but I will post any problems.

Thanks again to all.

><> Jim <><

[mhancoc7]

First let me say hello Jereme and how good it is to have you back. I hope all of the previous troubles are behind you for good, and that you and your family are all doing well. :)
I was very excited to find the listing on Distrowatch for the new 8.04 version of Ubuntu CE. I eagerly downloaded it and popped it into my cd drive to have a look at the new version of the best distro out there. That's when the disappointment hit. :(
Almost all of the details that made this distro different from plain old Ubuntu seemed to be missing, from the simple small things like the menu button with the christian fish to the (Gasp!) lack of E-Sword, which for me was the application that I practically lived on in Ubuntu CE.
As far as I can see, besides a nice wallpaper on the desktop and the inclusion of the Virtual Rosary application, this is no different than the regular Ubuntu Hardy that is installed on some other computers that I have access to. In fact it seems to be missing some features like startup manager just to name one.
The few included Bible programs like Gnome Sword and Bible Time are readily available not only for Ubuntu, but many other distros as well (I use both on openSUSE.)
The thing that originally set Ubuntu CE apart from the rest for me was the inclusion of other Biblical resources like E-Sword and The Word being already configured in Wine and ready to run. The Wine implementation was so good under the 7.04 version that I was able to get other programs like Interlinear Scripture Analyzer to install and run just by downloading the .exe file and clicking it.
For now I am going to just stick with the 7.04 version on my Linux box and see if I can get my wife to let me install 8.04 on her Windows machine and try to play with Wine and E-Sword and some of the other programs, but I this is really not my area of expertise. In the meanwhile I will awaiting the next release of UbuntuCE in hopes that it will somehow set itself apart from the rest of the pack again.
This is just my two-cents worth, and I know that you can't please all of the people all of the time. Keep up the good work, and God bless. You and your family remain in my prayers.

><> Jim Shunamon <><

Well, I really am sorry to hear about your disappointment. I put a lot of time and effort into every release and it makes me sad to think that it is a disappointment.

I did expect this kind of reaction. I was really happy with the inclusion of esword and the other windows applications. However, there were some changes in the latest esword that made it very difficult to install remotely. Also keeping up with all of the changes to keep the windows programs working is just too much for me to keep up with.

The original goal of Ubuntu CE was never to include everything under the sun. It was to have all of the Christian Linux programs installed by default and to have Parental Controls with a easy to use GUI. I also decided to go back to the default Ubuntu look and feel again because it makes the build time faster and will help me keep on track for future releases.

I do appreciate your input and I hope that you can see where I am coming from. I would also ask that if you would like to help the project please join the Ubuntu CE Documentation Wiki (http://www.whatwouldjesusdownload.com/christianubuntu/wiki/doku.php) and post some How To guides for installing extra software to Ubuntu CE. This is the route that I am going to be taking with installing programs like esword and such.

Thanks and God Bless, Jereme

[Jim Shunamon]

Hi Jereme.

I am very sorry if my post implied any negativity toward you in any way. Your integrity in all things speaks for itself.

I am disappointed not with you, but with the fact that it is so hard to get certain programs to run under wine. I can't even begin to understand how much of hassle it must be for you as a developer to have to deal with all of these issues.

I am 100% convinced that you did all that you could to get out the best package possible, especially given the limitation of the 700 MB size of the cd image. For instance, I think that it was very wise not to include OpenOffice, as anyone desiring it can easily download it from the repositories.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I'm disappointed with the fact that these other programs like E-Sword etc. could not be provided "out of the box" so to speak. My intention was never to imply any disappointment with you or the amazing effort that put into this work despite your obviously very busy schedule. Please accept my apologies and know that as the Lord provides I will try to continue to support this project.

God bless you and yours.

In Christ,

><> Jim Shunamon <><

[mhancoc7]

Hi Jereme.

I am very sorry if my post implied any negativity toward you in any way. Your integrity in all things speaks for itself.

I am disappointed not with you, but with the fact that it is so hard to get certain programs to run under wine. I can't even begin to understand how much of hassle it must be for you as a developer to have to deal with all of these issues.

I am 100% convinced that you did all that you could to get out the best package possible, especially given the limitation of the 700 MB size of the cd image. For instance, I think that it was very wise not to include OpenOffice, as anyone desiring it can easily download it from the repositories.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I'm disappointed with the fact that these other programs like E-Sword etc. could not be provided "out of the box" so to speak. My intention was never to imply any disappointment with you or the amazing effort that put into this work despite your obviously very busy schedule. Please accept my apologies and know that as the Lord provides I will try to continue to support this project.

God bless you and yours.

In Christ,

><> Jim Shunamon <><

Thank you for that. I was not upset with you. I think my frustrations are the same as yours. On one hand I want my programs like esword, and on the other I want to encourage the use and development of the open source alternatives.

Anyway, I just updated the screenshots (http://www.ubuntuce.com/screenshots.htm)page on the site. I really like it and hope that it will make the site more appealing and useful for the visitors.

God Bless, Jereme

[cjm5229]

Linux has advanced so far in the last year it's mind boggling. Wine in particular has made some great strides. David_kt has done a fabulous job on his eSword how to, which I notice gets shorter all the time. BibleTime and Gnomesword, while still not up to the quality of eSword, are looking and working better all the time. There are Apps like Google Gadgets, and Desklets, that include some nice Bible gadgets, that are simple to add.
I agree with Jereme, that, keeping it simple is the best way to go. I will try to help on some Howto's for the Wiki, since most are "Download, double click, install, finished!" even I can handle that:). I think about all that is needed is a Shortcut on the Bookmarks toolbar in FF to the Wiki page. I guess I will have to boot back into my "Old" 8.04 to see if they install the same. I have the Wine HQ repo's installed in both Hardy and Intrepid though so I should have the same Wine version in both.

God Bless You,
And keep up the good work Jereme,
Welcome Home.
Carl

[tak1150]

Hi brothers,

I have been thinking about the e-sword installer issue as well. So here's my 2 cents.

If we could have the author of e-sword to agree to provide just the actual files that go into the e-sword folder (ie kjv.bbl, etc), then the installer script can be extremely simple. I'm no programmer, but even I might be able to pull that off.

I have tried to contact the author of esword a couple of times about other issues and I have never gotten a response (such as having NKJV available and so forth; this was a few years ago). So I'm thinking we could have Jereme (a lot higher profile person) to contact him? Maybe he'll agree to allow downloading of files like kjv.bbl directly from his server.

Tak

[david_kt]

I have added automatic installer that would:
1. Download and install E-sword 798
2. Copy riched20 to correct location
3. Download msls31.dll
4. Set dlloverrides for riched20 and oleaut32

All are done in special bottle (.wine_Esword).
Download Esword_installer.tar.gz
Make sure it is executable (right click on the extracted file (Esword_installer) >> click properties >> click permision tab >> and then tick on the execute (Allow executing file as program).
Double click on Esword_installer to run it

It has been tested using wine-1.0 and e-Sword Version 7.9.8. It run without any problem on ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron).
You could use this how to theoritically in any distro running wine, not just ubuntu.

Check it out on this thread:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=404042

DK

[mhancoc7]

Hi brothers,

I have been thinking about the e-sword installer issue as well. So here's my 2 cents.

If we could have the author of e-sword to agree to provide just the actual files that go into the e-sword folder (ie kjv.bbl, etc), then the installer script can be extremely simple. I'm no programmer, but even I might be able to pull that off.

I have tried to contact the author of esword a couple of times about other issues and I have never gotten a response (such as having NKJV available and so forth; this was a few years ago). So I'm thinking we could have Jereme (a lot higher profile person) to contact him? Maybe he'll agree to allow downloading of files like kjv.bbl directly from his server.

Tak

When I first started including an e-sword installer in Ubuntu CE I contacted the author of e-sword and he was very clear that he did not want us to include an files directly. So I am not sure how open he would be to it.

I have added automatic installer that would:
1. Download and install E-sword 798
2. Copy riched20 to correct location
3. Download msls31.dll
4. Set dlloverrides for riched20 and oleaut32

All are done in special bottle (.wine_Esword).
Download Esword_installer.tar.gz
Make sure it is executable (right click on the extracted file (Esword_installer) >> click properties >> click permision tab >> and then tick on the execute (Allow executing file as program).
Double click on Esword_installer to run it

It has been tested using wine-1.0 and e-Sword Version 7.9.8. It run without any problem on ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron).
You could use this how to theoritically in any distro running wine, not just ubuntu.

Check it out on this thread:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=404042

DK

That sounds awesome! Would you consider adding this to the the Ubuntu CE Wiki (http://www.whatwouldjesusdownload.com/christianubuntu/wiki/doku.php)? I am hoping that the wiki will become a resource for not only documentation for Ubuntu CE but also the place to get info and How To guides for adding stuff to Ubuntu CE such as esword.

Great work!!

Thanks, Jereme

[david_kt]

Would you consider adding this to the the Ubuntu CE Wiki (http://www.whatwouldjesusdownload.com/christianubuntu/wiki/doku.php)?

As I do not know how to write in wiki, I just added the a link in that wiki to the thread. Later if I am familiar with wiki, I will improve on that.

Regards,
DK

[mhancoc7]

As I do not know how to write in wiki, I just added the a link in that wiki to the thread. Later if I am familiar with wiki, I will improve on that.

Regards,
DK

Sounds great! I really appreciate your work on the esword installation. I think that the wiki is going to be a really great resource for Ubuntu CE.

Thanks, Jereme

[LaneLester]

Jereme, I'm looking forward to trying the 8.04 CE. I'm at a small Christian K-12 school and planning to implement CE on all of our just-building computer lab. We want to screen the surfing, and the inclusion of dan-whatever with a GUI interface is a big plus for CE. We mainly need Firefox and OpenOffice for our students, so Windows has nothing to offer.

I run Xubuntu Hardy and Intrepid at home, so I definitely wanted a flavor of Ubuntu.

Lane

[mhancoc7]

Jereme, I'm looking forward to trying the 8.04 CE. I'm at a small Christian K-12 school and planning to implement CE on all of our just-building computer lab. We want to screen the surfing, and the inclusion of dan-whatever with a GUI interface is a big plus for CE. We mainly need Firefox and OpenOffice for our students, so Windows has nothing to offer.

I run Xubuntu Hardy and Intrepid at home, so I definitely wanted a flavor of Ubuntu.

Lane

Sounds great! Please keep me updated on your progress.

Jereme

[LaneLester]

Well, I'm off to a bad start. We have three old clumkers that are running Windows XP. In every one of them the live CD wouldn't boot to completion. There was some variation, but they all seemed to run into problems at about the same place. A box comes up that says that the Gnome... I forget what it was, so I'm going to boot one and see. I'm going to go ahead and post this so I don't lose it, and then I'll edit it with more information.

Nuts! That machine wouldn't get to that point. Anyway, the box is maybe 3"x5" and says some Gnome program ran into problems.

I'm going to try Puppy Linux on those old boxes. I have an old HP laptop that wouldn't run Ubuntu, although it hung in a different way. But it runs Puppy just fine.

Oh, yes, last night I did a complete install of CE on one of my home machines, and it all went well. It looks good, including the DansGuardian interface. Maybe we'll get some capable machines at school.

Lane

[mhancoc7]

Well, I'm off to a bad start. We have three old clumkers that are running Windows XP. In every one of them the live CD wouldn't boot to completion. There was some variation, but they all seemed to run into problems at about the same place. A box comes up that says that the Gnome... I forget what it was, so I'm going to boot one and see. I'm going to go ahead and post this so I don't lose it, and then I'll edit it with more information.

Nuts! That machine wouldn't get to that point. Anyway, the box is maybe 3"x5" and says some Gnome program ran into problems.

I'm going to try Puppy Linux on those old boxes. I have an old HP laptop that wouldn't run Ubuntu, although it hung in a different way. But it runs Puppy just fine.

Oh, yes, last night I did a complete install of CE on one of my home machines, and it all went well. It looks good, including the DansGuardian interface. Maybe we'll get some capable machines at school.

Lane

Sorry to hear about that. I have thought about creating a version of Ubuntu CE for older machines, but I just have not had the time to do so.

God Bless, Jereme

[cjm5229]

They would probably install from an Ubuntu alternate CD, If the CE install script is finished, it could be run then to upgrade to CE. or just install the necessary programs from Synaptic.

[Sef]

How much ram do you have? If you have less than 384 mb, then the live cd will not work. Ubuntu will work with 256 mb, but it will be slow. I would recommend installing Xubuntu (http://xubuntu.org) and then installing the other packages in the CE version, so it would be an Xubuntu Christian version.