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View Full Version : Microsoft To Buy Up To $100M In SUSE Linux Support Vouchers



ooobuntooo
August 21st, 2008, 08:13 AM
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9112979

I'm not even gonna touch Suse after this!

eragon100
August 21st, 2008, 11:35 AM
I am thinking about trying openSuSe 11 :)

sandysandy
August 21st, 2008, 11:46 AM
I am thinking about trying openSuSe 11 :)

OpenSuse11 rocks.

forger
August 21st, 2008, 11:47 AM
...this is the deal back when they signed up that cross-licensing, isn't it?
from the looks of it, I think they're going to make the microsoft-novell windows-suse server :P

handy
August 21st, 2008, 12:05 PM
I read the link, & it makes me want to vomit. :icon_frown:

TenPlus1
August 21st, 2008, 01:16 PM
If the money helps the development of Linux then it's ok... It'll help all linux flavours in the long-run...

forger
August 21st, 2008, 01:24 PM
If the money helps the development of Linux then it's ok... It'll help all linux flavours in the long-run...

let's just hope they'll keep the "open source and allowed to use/modify" spirit

alloftheabove
August 21st, 2008, 03:15 PM
let's just hope they'll keep the "open source and allowed to use/modify" spirit

I wouldn't trust microsoft as far as I could throw it. And I couldn't throw them at all, so I guess I don't trust them at all.

linuxguymarshall
August 21st, 2008, 03:18 PM
M$ is the only thing between us and true, open software. Hell, even Apple does not mind the Linux world, if nothing else they embrace it.

handy
August 21st, 2008, 03:19 PM
If the money helps the development of Linux then it's ok... It'll help all linux flavours in the long-run...

No way in the world would M$ do anything, at all, that would benefit opposition to their business model.

Done, finished.

RS3York
August 21st, 2008, 06:43 PM
...even Apple does not mind the Linux world, if nothing else they embrace it.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Apple embraces getting code for free, but that seems to be where the embrace ends.

seanc7
August 21st, 2008, 09:18 PM
Yeah, if Apple embraced Linux, where's the Linux version of iTunes?

sodiumfree
August 21st, 2008, 09:25 PM
People who complain about Microsoft are annoying. I have my qualms with them but you must consider the task at hand: it has to work with every piece of hardware and software that any third party can imagine all the time any time.

danbuter
August 21st, 2008, 09:27 PM
Hopefully Novell will hire even more programmers and make Linux even better. And Apple, Linux-friendly???!!!! Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!

zmjjmz
August 22nd, 2008, 12:07 AM
I've heard that Novell's CEO regrets the partnership.
Oh, and if MS starts to throw FUD around saying that Linux isn't good (or any MS fanboy does), this link will help.

wolfen69
August 22nd, 2008, 12:46 AM
I am thinking about trying openSuSe 11 :)

you still have to agree to the novell license (EULA) with opensuse. no thanks. i'm going to toss my opensuse disk in the garbage after reading what they have agreed to.

let them make money. i wont be a part of it.

wolfen69
August 22nd, 2008, 12:53 AM
People who complain about Microsoft are annoying. I have my qualms with them but you must consider the task at hand: it has to work with every piece of hardware and software that any third party can imagine all the time any time.

i dont find people in the streets complaining about microsoft, just on the message boards. if you dont like it, stay off them. you're not going to find much microsoft sympathy on a linux board. go and update your anti-virus.

sodiumfree
August 22nd, 2008, 01:40 AM
i dont find people in the streets complaining about microsoft, just on the message boards. if you dont like it, stay off them. you're not going to find much microsoft sympathy on a linux board. go and update your anti-virus.

thanks for the info :):):):):):):):)

Sef
August 22nd, 2008, 09:49 AM
Moved to OMGPP.

pp.
August 22nd, 2008, 10:08 AM
non olet.

ubuntu-freak
August 22nd, 2008, 11:16 PM
Moved to OMGPP.


Why? I thought Linux-related news belonged in the Cafe.

-grubby
August 22nd, 2008, 11:41 PM
why? I thought linux-related news belonged in the cafe.

+1

Giant Speck
August 22nd, 2008, 11:56 PM
I see this as a crucial step in the development of a stronger Microsoft-Linux relationship and I believe that it will benefit both Linux and Windows in the long run.

This is what we want, people. We want Microsoft and Linux to work together, not apart. Working apart isn't going to solve anything. It's just going to drive computer users away from each other.

schauerlich
August 23rd, 2008, 12:08 AM
What's the big deal? They're companies. They make partnerships that will benefit each side.

We still have our software, let's just use it and stop demonizing microsoft for having a different philosophy than us.

They are a business, we are a community. Live and let live.

ubuntu-freak
August 23rd, 2008, 12:08 AM
I see this as a crucial step in the development of a stronger Microsoft-Linux relationship and I believe that it will benefit both Linux and Windows in the long run.

This is what we want, people. We want Microsoft and Linux to work together, not apart. Working apart isn't going to solve anything. It's just going to drive computer users away from each other.


It will only benefit open source, if what Shuttleworth hopes for actually happens - namely, that hearts, minds and attitudes change at Microsoft. But then, what do we actually want from MS?

Giant Speck
August 23rd, 2008, 12:09 AM
It will only benefit open source, if what Shuttleworth hopes for actually happens - namely, that hearts, minds and attitudes change at Microsoft. But then, what do we actually want from MS?

Perhaps we want Microsoft programs to actually work properly in Linux, without having to use WINE?

schauerlich
August 23rd, 2008, 12:10 AM
Perhaps we want Microsoft programs to actually work properly in Linux, without having to use WINE?

They're different OSes. There is absolutely no obligation on Microsoft's part to make their applications work on a platform they are not meant to work on.

Giant Speck
August 23rd, 2008, 12:21 AM
They're different OSes. There is absolutely no obligation on Microsoft's part to make their applications work on a platform they are not meant to work on.

Then why did they do it with Apple? If they were not obligated to do so, why did they do it anyway?

Icehuck
August 23rd, 2008, 12:28 AM
The original lawsuit proved that Microsoft could take big companies to court for using Linux. However, this results in a double edged sword for Microsoft. They could alienate their customers and end up like the Music Industry or they could allow their customers a way out. The Novell voucher sharing settlement gave Microsoft their way out. The new $100 million Voucher purchase is just a reminder that big companies could be sued unless they buy the vouchers.

schauerlich
August 23rd, 2008, 12:55 AM
Then why did they do it with Apple? If they were not obligated to do so, why did they do it anyway?

Because OS X has a well establish paying market. The work required to port all of Microsoft's software to Linux would not be recouped in sales by a small market that mostly hates Microsoft.

If I was in charge of microsoft, I wouldn't want to port it either.

ubuntu-freak
August 23rd, 2008, 01:29 AM
Perhaps we want Microsoft programs to actually work properly in Linux, without having to use WINE?


YUCK.

P.S. Silverlight will be available on GNU/Linux, will that do? :)

Giant Speck
August 23rd, 2008, 02:33 AM
Because OS X has a well establish paying market. The work required to port all of Microsoft's software to Linux would not be recouped in sales by a small market that mostly hates Microsoft.

If I was in charge of microsoft, I wouldn't want to port it either.

That makes sense. Linux would have to either significantly increase its number of users or actually put itself on the market.

The way I see it, it would be like having a person who only speaks Korean move to a small town of 1,000 people that only speak English and then demanding that all city documents, street signs, classroom materials and businesses be altered to include the Korean language just for him. Of course the town isn't just going to become bilingual English-Korean for one person, but perhaps if the Korean population of the town skyrocketed to, say, 50% of the total population, then the town would reconsider.


YUCK.

P.S. Silverlight will be available on GNU/Linux, will that do? :)

What is so bad about having Microsoft programs run in Linux?
Isn't that what people want? I hear all the time people complaining about their favorite computer game not running in Linux because it was designed to run only in Windows. If Microsoft was able to port its programs to Linux, it would be a good thing, not a bad thing. Just because it's proprietary software doesn't mean it's bad.

ubuntu-freak
August 23rd, 2008, 03:13 AM
That makes sense. Linux would have to either significantly increase its number of users or actually put itself on the market.

The way I see it, it would be like having a person who only speaks Korean move to a small town of 1,000 people that only speak English and then demanding that all city documents, street signs, classroom materials and businesses be altered to include the Korean language just for him. Of course the town isn't just going to become bilingual English-Korean for one person, but perhaps if the Korean population of the town skyrocketed to, say, 50% of the total population, then the town would reconsider.



What is so bad about having Microsoft programs run in Linux?
Isn't that what people want? I hear all the time people complaining about their favorite computer game not running in Linux because it was designed to run only in Windows. If Microsoft was able to port its programs to Linux, it would be a good thing, not a bad thing. Just because it's proprietary software doesn't mean it's bad.


What does MS have to do with it? They only make a minority of the games available on PCs, and they don't really make them anyway.

Giant Speck
August 23rd, 2008, 03:27 AM
What does MS have to do with it? They only make a minority of the games available on PCs, and they don't really make them anyway.

It's not about porting the games themselves. It's about porting the code needed to run those games, which Windows has and Linux doesn't.

ubuntu-freak
August 23rd, 2008, 03:43 AM
It's not about porting the games themselves. It's about porting the code needed to run those games, which Windows has and Linux doesn't.


Not really. It's about the games developers wanting more demand from GNU/Linux users. Or, to put it another way - 's, $'s, and €'s.

P.S. Porting what code? DirectX? That would never work, and it's ugly.

SunnyRabbiera
August 23rd, 2008, 03:44 AM
Still this reeks, MS is desperate to keep up with linux that it needs to buy it out before it surpasses them.

ubuntu-freak
August 23rd, 2008, 04:16 AM
Still this reeks, MS is desperate to keep up with linux that it needs to buy it out before it surpasses them.


GNU/Linux will never surpass Windows, except in matters of principle, security etc, but not in sheer numbers of users. Why? Cos' most people are ignorant, and/or don't care about freedom in general.

niccholaspage
August 23rd, 2008, 04:47 AM
^^ Defiantly right.I have a friend that I am trying to get to dual boot Vista And Ubuntu and he really won't even let me pop in the cd for him to try it....

ubuntu-freak
August 23rd, 2008, 05:16 AM
^^ Defiantly right.I have a friend that I am trying to get to dual boot Vista And Ubuntu and he really won't even let me pop in the cd for him to try it....


Yeah, pathetic really. I managed to convince one friend to look at screenshots of Ubuntu though.

Giant Speck
August 23rd, 2008, 05:19 AM
How can you preach about freedom of choice and then try to push off Ubuntu onto users who don't want to use it?

MaxIBoy
August 23rd, 2008, 05:22 AM
I already object to SUSE, they signed some kind of agreement with Microsoft a while back which said that Microsoft has intellectual property rights over Linux, even though SUSE definitely doesn't have the right to say that.


(Might have heard that wrong though, hope I don't sound like I'm full of crap.)

ubuntu-freak
August 23rd, 2008, 05:43 AM
I already object to SUSE, they signed some kind of agreement with Microsoft a while back which said that Microsoft has intellectual property rights over Linux, even though SUSE definitely doesn't have the right to say that.


(Might have heard that wrong though, hope I don't sound like I'm full of crap.)


Have you watched Mafia-style movies? You know, where the Mafia footsoldiers walk into a butchers, take-away, construction site or whatever, then tell the owners that they will protect them and give them security, from the Mafia? Well, it's very much like that. Microsoft offered various insecure and/or silly open source-related companies protection from Microsoft.

Icehuck
August 23rd, 2008, 05:46 AM
I already object to SUSE, they signed some kind of agreement with Microsoft a while back which said that Microsoft has intellectual property rights over Linux, even though SUSE definitely doesn't have the right to say that.



(Might have heard that wrong though, hope I don't sound like I'm full of crap.)

It was a lawsuit that Microsoft filed against Novell for using and distributing software that violated Microsoft's patents. They settled out of court, which gave Microsoft a way force companies to buy service contracts or risk a law suit.

I don't know what patents they hold or don't hold. I just know if you make something and you don't patent it, and someone else does, too bad for you.

ubuntu-freak
August 23rd, 2008, 06:08 AM
It was a lawsuit that Microsoft filed against Novell for using and distributing software that violated Microsoft's patents. They settled out of court, which gave Microsoft a way force companies to buy service contracts or risk a law suit.

I don't know what patents they hold or don't hold. I just know if you make something and you don't patent it, and someone else does, too bad for you.


MS can't patent something that's been written and released under the GPL.

Also, MS has never disclosed what the breaches are, so it's obviously nonesense. If there were any patent breaches, MS should say what they are, then the open source community could purge the relevent code, and replace it with code that doesn't breach the phantom, imaginary patents.

tbroderick
August 23rd, 2008, 06:41 AM
It was a lawsuit that Microsoft filed against Novell for using and distributing software that violated Microsoft's patents. They settled out of court, which gave Microsoft a way force companies to buy service contracts or risk a law suit.

Microsoft didn't sue Novell over patents. Microsoft and Novell agreed to a joint patent agreement. In total Microsoft paid upfront to Novell $348 million ($240 million for service contracts and $108 million for patents). Novell agreed to pay $40 million over five years to Microsoft for the patent agreement. Microsoft is now buying another $100 million in service contracts from Novell.

quinnten83
August 23rd, 2008, 09:22 AM
Then why did they do it with Apple? If they were not obligated to do so, why did they do it anyway?

Money, DUH!
Apple has now 7% of the market. MS might not be able to sell the OS to these people, but they can still sell software. Software sell is better than no sell at all.

grossaffe
August 23rd, 2008, 09:28 AM
M$ is the only thing between us and true, open software. Hell, even Apple does not mind the Linux world, if nothing else they embrace it.

hasn't apple been trying to shut down el tunes and aren't they ignoring the linux community with itunes? If there's a company I trust less than microsoft its apple.

ssam
August 23rd, 2008, 10:40 AM
If microsoft are distributing linux distributions that give linux users a lot of protection. They are basically giving everyone the right to use the code without fear of being sued for patent infringement. This is especially true for GPL3 stuff (GNU tool, samba etc). but think they would have a hard time in court trying to explain that they sold someone something under a GPL2 licence (which allows them to redistribute it with the four freedoms), but they still want to sue people for actually using it.

microsoft: hi sam, here is some software, you can give it to all your friends and they can use it too.
sam: cool. hey rob, try this.
rob: thanks sam.
microsoft: oy rob. you can't use that software. give us all your money

even if they tried we have the OIN to protect us http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/

ooobuntooo
August 23rd, 2008, 10:43 AM
It's not about porting the games themselves. It's about porting the code needed to run those games, which Windows has and Linux doesn't.

DirectX will never be ported to Linux, it hasn't even been ported to Mac. They still rely on OpenGL for games!

gjoellee
August 23rd, 2008, 10:45 AM
I have tested openSUSE 11, it is actually very slow to be a Linux distribution and it gets more Windows-like for every update

(R.I.P openSUSE):confused:

Chessmaster
August 23rd, 2008, 10:48 AM
How can you preach about freedom of choice and then try to push off Ubuntu onto users who don't want to use it?

I don't think it is the case of "trying to push off Ubuntu onto other users", it is a case of show people that they actually do have choice.

Most people out there think that the only two options in the world are Mac or Windows - and even then, loads of people don't even know what a Mac is! Most people think that all computers are Windows computers.

ooobuntooo
August 23rd, 2008, 10:48 AM
Steve Ballmer want as far to call Linux a "cancer" this month.

ooobuntooo
August 23rd, 2008, 10:49 AM
I hate when people say PC and Mac!

Chessmaster
August 23rd, 2008, 10:51 AM
I hate when people say PC and Mac!

Why?

Canis familiaris
August 23rd, 2008, 10:55 AM
Why?
Because People tend to think:
PC = Windows
Mac = OSX

When the fact is that Linux can run in both PC and Mac and also Windows can run on the Intel Mac and even OSX can run technically maybe not legally in a PC.

Personally I see Mac as only a brand name of PCs made by Apple.

Chessmaster
August 23rd, 2008, 11:13 AM
When the fact is that Linux can run in both PC and Mac and also Windows can run on the Intel Mac and even Mac can run technically maybe not legally in a PC.



Don't you mean "OSX can run technically maybe not legally in a PC", not Mac??

dspari1
August 23rd, 2008, 11:26 AM
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9112979

I'm not even gonna touch Suse after this!

Microsoft getting into Linux is a good thing because this could lead the way for Linux users to get a version of Microsoft Office.

ooobuntooo
August 23rd, 2008, 11:27 AM
Microsoft getting into Linux is a good thing because this could lead the way for Linux users to get a version of Microsoft Office.

lol, Linux isn't even going to get a version of Windows media player!

If you want MS Office, use Crossover 7 like I do!

dspari1
August 23rd, 2008, 11:31 AM
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Apple embraces getting code for free, but that seems to be where the embrace ends.

It wasn't even Linux code either in which they would have to follow GPL if they did.

ooobuntooo
August 23rd, 2008, 11:33 AM
It wasn't even Linux code either in which they would have to follow GPL if they did.

I'm glad they didn't steal the Linux code to make Darwin!

dspari1
August 23rd, 2008, 11:38 AM
But then, what do we actually want from MS?

The same thing they give to Apple.

Linux version of:
Microsoft Office
Internet Explorer
Windows Media Player
Silverlight (which we are getting)

Besides Microsoft Office, these features is what would allow Linux users to receive 100% compatibility when browsing the internet.

Canis familiaris
August 23rd, 2008, 11:40 AM
Don't you mean "OSX can run technically maybe not legally in a PC", not Mac??

Yes. Corrected it.

ooobuntooo
August 23rd, 2008, 11:53 AM
Microsoft has a similar partnership with Sun Solaris. They only ported IE and WMP which have now been discontinued.

Good news about Silverlight though!

Chessmaster
August 23rd, 2008, 12:03 PM
Good news about Silverlight though!

Does this mean that they will promote / actively encourage more content on the web that requires Silverlight? They will claim that it is ok because "everyone, including Linux users" can use Silverlight.

But, it will also mean that there is more stuff on the web that will only be able to be viewed if you have installed some microsoft software.

(I am not claiming this is a bad thing (although I did think that it is!) but is this what people think will happen?)

zmjjmz
August 23rd, 2008, 02:07 PM
Until Silverlight is open sourced, it will not be good for it to be used all over.

ubuntu-freak
August 23rd, 2008, 02:48 PM
Does this mean that they will promote / actively encourage more content on the web that requires Silverlight? They will claim that it is ok because "everyone, including Linux users" can use Silverlight.

But, it will also mean that there is more stuff on the web that will only be able to be viewed if you have installed some microsoft software.

(I am not claiming this is a bad thing (although I did think that it is!) but is this what people think will happen?)


Yeah, exactly. The anti-trust lawsuit may be extended to future products, cos' MS may only support GNU/Linux for a short time. I mean, they're barely supporting it with Silverlight, they're just helping a thirdy-party company create Moonlight.

Riffer
August 23rd, 2008, 03:01 PM
The same thing they give to Apple.

Linux version of:
Microsoft Office
Internet Explorer
Windows Media Player
Silverlight (which we are getting)

Besides Microsoft Office, these features is what would allow Linux users to receive 100% compatibility when browsing the internet.

Other then "Office", who would want the other 3 things? Even when I was on Windows, I never used them. Both IE and Media Player are/were crap.

Chessmaster
August 23rd, 2008, 03:19 PM
other then "office", who would want the other 3 things? Even when i was on windows, i never used them. Both ie and media player are/were crap.

+1

ubuntu-freak
August 23rd, 2008, 04:32 PM
other then "office", who would want the other 3 things? Even when i was on windows, i never used them. Both ie and media player are/were crap.

+1 + +1 = +2

crazyfuturamanoob
August 23rd, 2008, 04:56 PM
other then "office", who would want the other 3 things? Even when i was on windows, i never used them. Both ie and media player are/were crap.+1 + +1 = +2
Agreed.

mike1234
August 23rd, 2008, 05:04 PM
OpenSuse11 rocks.

I think SuSe is crap. Novell doesn't impress me at all. Same with Fedora. Both are hung up with DRM issues. I like Ubuntu's 'license" approach. Do not use if illegal in your area. That's how it should be. Why cripple an O.S. because you're afraid of Microsoft?

M.

hessiess
August 23rd, 2008, 05:35 PM
The same thing they give to Apple.

Linux version of:
Microsoft Office : crap
Internet Explorer :verry crap
Windows Media Player :verry crap
Silverlight (which we are getting) : crap

Besides Microsoft Office, these features is what would allow Linux users to receive 100% compatibility when browsing the internet.

Linux dosent need MS programs

Dixon Bainbridge
August 23rd, 2008, 06:21 PM
MS can't patent something that's been written and released under the GPL.

Also, MS has never disclosed what the breaches are, so it's obviously nonesense. If there were any patent breaches, MS should say what they are, then the open source community could purge the relevent code, and replace it with code that doesn't breach the phantom, imaginary patents.

There are no breaches. People that threaten lawsuits know nothing and have nothing to sue. Its hot air. If you are genuinely aggreived at something, you sue immediately. If you have no case, but are annoyed about something or want to create FUD, you threaten to sue.

At the end of the day, it comes down to those that can, do. Those that can't, threaten.

ubuntu-freak
August 23rd, 2008, 07:02 PM
There are no breaches. People that threaten lawsuits know nothing and have nothing to sue. Its hot air. If you are genuinely aggreived at something, you sue immediately. If you have no case, but are annoyed about something or want to create FUD, you threaten to sue.

At the end of the day, it comes down to those that can, do. Those that can't, threaten.


+1

I did use the words "nonesense", "phantom" and "imaginary". ;)

wdaniels
August 23rd, 2008, 07:12 PM
MS can't patent something that's been written and released under the GPL.

Actually they can (that's one of the biggest problems with the system) they only have to neglect to mention the prior art. It is not the job of the USPTO to go looking for prior art before granting a patent, they rely on people objecting to the patent application, or ultimately a court to declare the patent invalid on that basis if it comes to it. But of course, anyone wanting to invalidate a MS patent will have to stump up the cash for all those lawyers...which is not necessarily a problem for Novell but it's still easier for them to make a patent-sharing agreement with MS instead.

Giant Speck
August 23rd, 2008, 10:13 PM
Linux dosent need MS programs

It's not what Linux needs, it's what Linux users want.

mrgnash
August 23rd, 2008, 10:20 PM
The same thing they give to Apple.

Linux version of:
Microsoft Office
Internet Explorer
Windows Media Player
Silverlight (which we are getting)

Besides Microsoft Office, these features is what would allow Linux users to receive 100% compatibility when browsing the internet.

All rubbish.

Erunno
August 23rd, 2008, 10:26 PM
I think SuSe is crap. Novell doesn't impress me at all. Same with Fedora. Both are hung up with DRM issues.

Care to eleborate?

wdaniels
August 23rd, 2008, 10:35 PM
It's not what Linux needs, it's what Linux users want.

So it comes down to whether Linux needs users who want MS software :D I don't think it does - I'm more interested in users who need Linux, or at least want Linux more than they want proprietary MS software, protocols and data structures. Causing Windows users to migrate to Linux is in the interests of Novell and co. not necessarily in the interests of Linux. I'm all for it where it's practical (as a means to an end, in order to gain better hardware support mostly) but pandering to MS over patents is one place where I draw a line and Novell crossed it so I lost interest in them.

But each to their own...I don't have a problem with Novell or people who support their actions (it's perfectly understandable) only it's not something I'll play any part in myself.

mike1234
August 24th, 2008, 07:57 PM
Care to eleborate?

Specifically codecs. I tried out Fedora 8 and was directed to a website to purchase codecs. I haven't used suse 11 but I used 10 and it wasn't friendly about installing codecs either. I just think they're both afraid of MS and legal issues. Too bad because I liked everyting else. I need a complete system and am grateful to Ubuntu for getting me off the Windows addict wagon. Internet browsing has gotten better since most websites switched from windows media players to flash. I believe in property rights and all but MS isn't going to play fair with Linux because they know it's one trump card they hold.

M.

Linuxratty
August 25th, 2008, 12:17 AM
I And I couldn't throw them at all, so I guess I don't trust them at all.

We are on the same page here! I trust them about as far as I can fling a bull elephant.

Polygon
August 25th, 2008, 02:35 AM
i dont care that suse and microsoft have a deal, i do care however how its impossible to get my wireless working with suse...