Let's vote for Dapper icon (Human vs Tango)

[mojo]

Okay, straight to main point, let me ask ppl out there, how do you want our beloved Dapper looks like? As we've known, Ubuntu is on the way developing Human icon theme. At the same time, project Tango is growing strong and fast too. A question is raised here, what icon set you want Dapper adopt? The Human icon set or a new Tango styled icon set? It's interesting to see the outcome... :D

Tango icon set ver 0.64:
Please note that ver 0.40 of Tango where the folder icon is grey with dotted Novell style has been deprecated . jimmac has decided to move to Blue folder icon. (I think the grey version will appear in future Novell Linux soon)

http://art.gnome.org/images/thumbnails/icon/ICON-Tango-Shot.png

And yes, if u want the icon-theme, please download it at art.gnome.org (http://art.gnome.org)

Note: We have an alternative, sgarrity and andreasn already make a ubuntu folder version:

http://actsofvolition.com/images/screenshots/tango/folder-bluecurve.png

So it's possible to have Tango + Ubuntu style, Mark can pay for a team to do so rite ;)

Please see it at http://tango-project.org/Tango_Icon_Gallery



Human icon set:

http://art.gnome.org/images/thumbnails/icon/ICON-Humility-Shot.png


Tango in action:
http://opax.swin.edu.au/~4089294/Tango.png


Human in action: can some1 provide latest version screenshot?
http://opax.swin.edu.au/~2529386/Human.png

[Pablo_Escobar]

Out of these 2 choices I'd go with Human.
Tango is just to cold when You look at it.

[matthew]

I think both choices look very nice. I'm going to skip the vote this time because my themes, backgrounds, and icons change very often. Both options seem to be quite well done and I would be likely to add the both to my rotation of commonly used sets, but I don't think my whimsical flights of icon-changing fancy should be allowed to influence the default for everyone--especially since I would be likely to choose one today, regret it tomorrow, be back to it the next day and so on. :)

Anyway, all that to day they both fit into the "winner" category for me.

[Roobert]

I'd have to say I marginally prefer Human - but I agree they are both good. What's the story behind the deveopment of Tango?

[ThirdWorld]

i like the way gnome icons look in ubuntu. They look like soap bars or erasers to me, its very caracteristic of open source, somehow i feel like they give the Os its own identity. beautifull shadows. i wish all those icons in dapper will look like a more polished version of the gaim or the default firefox icon.

[melalcoolique]

By the way, icon-naming-utils (perl script) provided by Tango team is entered in Dapper Drake. Tango's iconset has been realeased too in his last version (0.4).

icon-naming-utils - script for maintaining backwards compatibility of Tango Project
http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2005-November/000469.html

I've personally no preference about default Ubuntu's iconset, I just hope it will respect Freedesktop's recommandations.

[eyebrowman92]

i definately like the human theme better because the tango theme has no color to it. the human theme makes it somewhat colorful.

[XDevHald]

Deffinently the Human, very smooth and easy to flow with during work time.

[jeffreyvergara.NET]

I like both, but I choosed Tango... i like the Trash icon.. LOL...

[Adrian]

If I had to choose between these two, I'd say Human.

I'm not fond of the Tango way of showing all drives and devices as "3d boxes".

[etc]

The human theme looks smoother, and better than the tango theme.

[nixon]

I like the Human theme, but I don't like the look of the new folder Icon, I prefer the current Human folder Icon, Perhaps a colour change (or even set of colours) would be good?

[xaque]

I voted for Tango... Human looks too shiny to me.

[Anthem]

Of the two, Human looks better.

Doesn't mean I won't switch at the first opportunity.

[megamania]

Why not make both sets available?

[majikstreet]

tango looks great.

[23meg]

Definitely Human as a default; the brown would blend well with the rest of the Ubuntu UI.

Why not make both sets available?

The idea here isn't availability, they'd both be available; but which of the two would make a better default.

[keithb]

The human set looks a bit more sleek and colorful to me.

[elanthis]

My only big gripe with human is that it uses the silly paper-box model for tons of icons. That removes the silhouette. There's no good reason to have a square-corner-folded-paper background for any icon other than one representing word-processing software, and even for those you could probably find a better icon. Tango has more icons with unique silhouettes.

[etc]

My only big gripe with human is that it uses the silly paper-box model for tons of icons. That removes the silhouette. There's no good reason to have a square-corner-folded-paper background for any icon other than one representing word-processing software, and even for those you could probably find a better icon. Tango has more icons with unique silhouettes.
I agree.
I noticed the only thing holding me back from choosing Tango was the computer icon, because it looks like crap. If you use the computer icon from Human, then Tango gets my vote.

[Norm 2782]

I'm running Human right now on Dapper... the one that came with it. But it doesn't look anything like that what you posted here O_o [/confused]

[GazaM]

I voted Tango... the computer icon is the only icon i dont like, everything else in Tango is very clean and crisp, like what the modernised Gnome icons should look like, very nice IMO. I also like what the Tango project is trying to do with naming specifications so icon themes will work seemlessly on both Gnome and KDE.

The human icons are nice too though, but too bulky and undefined IMO. I have used it and like it though, I just think the Tango set would be a far nicer default for users to look at... especially in a corporate environment.

[dude2425]

None of them. I can't stand that cartoonish style. I love the default GNOME icons, but if you insist on changing them, then I'd personaly sway more to the gPerfection icons to tell the truth. They're sleek, clean, effective, and they look good no matter where you put them, just like the default GNOME icons. It was the sheer simplicity of everything that got me considering Linux as an alternative to windows after Disk Cleanup nuked my harddrive. It was GNOME and the icons that got me to stay with it. I tried KDE a couple times durring my VMWare+Windows=Teh Win days, and just couldn't see it, but when GNOME first crossed my paths, I was hooked faster than I could say "GNOME," which, coincidentaly, took a few seconds before I realized the 'G' is supposed to be silent, and then to ponder that thought, and then to google it and realize that nobody really knows, and people say "guh-nome" a lot, just like Gnu.

[mojo]

The icon set in the screenshot is older version of Human (I think...) because I get that set from art.gnome.org

I'm running Human right now on Dapper... the one that came with it. But it doesn't look anything like that what you posted here O_o [/confused]

[super]

i voted for tango. because i think they look better.
but the updated human icon looks nice also :smile:

[bytter]

My vote goes to Tango. I think the iconset is becoming a great pice of artwork. Specially because they use a wide pallete (though uniform along the whole set) and not just stuck to one color (like blue or brown). The *only* icon I pretty dislike in Tango is the folder! Ugly...

[Curlydave]

Wow, I guess I'm not the only person that things that "Tango" is an uber-proffesional looking icon set. I just found it a few days ago and after trying it, I was thinking "holy ****, this is awesome!" It (imo) makes the Gnome icons look boring and the Human icons look lame.

Go Tango.:)

[UbuntUser4389]

I voted for Tango, I think Tango is awesome!!! But why can't you just have both?? Linux is all about customizability (if that's even a word), why not include both?!?! I think the Human icons are great, but I would prefer Tango. But I think both should be included. Ubuntu doesn't come with as many wallpapers and themes as some of the other flavors of Linux, I think this is something that should be improved upon. So include both!!!!

[Havoc]

They could (and probably will) include both, but that's not the question.The question is, which would go better as a default for Dapper.

Anyways, I voted Tango.I just *hate* Crystal Looks!
I hate them so much that I reverted back to KDE 2 Icons...Damn, I'm retro.
I just think that Crystal has been pulled soooo far, and nowadays, It's a fast 'n easy way to pump out eyecandy.

Ubuntu could benefit from an "artsy" kinda look, with nice, human colours (Brown, Light Red, Light Green, etc...).I have to say that Tango doesn't look just that great *yet*, but it has potential.

[blakken]

I'd choose Tango ,Human is nice as well but trash can icon looks too blurry!

[commodore]

Tango is more beautiful, but I voted for human because then ubuntu is different.

[DirtDawg]

Tough call, they're both nice. I chose Tango tho.

[Gnobody]

Tango with new folder and computer icon!

[GazaM]

On the Tango Project website's icon library, the folder icon is different to the grey one, it is in fact blue... I'm not sure which one is more up to date, the blue or the grey one, but IMO the blue one is far nicer and adds some necessary colour. The computer icon from Human theme in the Tango theme would be great.

[manicka]

Is it possible to download this new version of the human icon set?

[medgno]

The blue folder icon is the more up to date one. The icon gallery is pretty much up to date with Tango cvs.

Another unrelated thing, don't use the tango from the breezy repositories, since it way out of date (it's 0.1 while the current version is 0.4)

[Single]

Is it possible to download this new version of the human icon set?

Both of the icon themes can be found in art.gnome.org.
You can sudo apt-get install gnome-art to install them easily.

[ubuntu_demon]

I voted other.

I like both.

The new Human should be the default. Or maybe tango with Human colors. Let's see how they will evolve

[bvc]

I voted for Humility, even though it doesn't match the Human brown. It's sad that people screem for a default icon theme for ubuntu, the initiative is made and there's now a work in progress, and people want to vote for yet another work in progress? It's not as if you can't download and use Tango on your own, but where does it fit in ubuntu? Nowhere!

Concerning Tango? They're not very good. Like other svg themes they have that hidious, round, nonrealistic, fake, svg shadow. Nonround, shapped shadows can be done in svg! Just make a little effort! http://gnome-look.org/content/pre3/19775-3.png
Not to mention the tango dir icon is blue now
http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/screenshots/Tango.jpg
I realize someone has made a non_human brown version, but again, it's not human brown, so what's the point? Even if you did make a brown dir what about the rest? You end up with a mutt (too many diff colors that don't go together), which is pretty much what it is anyway.
The mimetypes are not detailed and clear either.
Tango is another nice choice for variety, but they'd have to be completely reworked to be considered for a default.

[bytter]

I voted for Humility, even though it doesn't match the Human brown. It's sad that people screem for a default icon theme for ubuntu, the initiative is made and there's now a work in progress, and people want to vote for yet another work in progress? It's not as if you can't download and use Tango on your own, but where does it fit in ubuntu? Nowhere.

Dude.. You're entitled to an opinion, as so are others... Art is that... Almost everyone I show Tango likes it. Honestly, for me, I would love to see a tango design in all the icons I have in my desktop (including those in application toolbars). But, as you correctly said, you can just download them. Same goes for Human...

But Human for me has a problem: it doesn't cover every icon (well, it doesn't cover MOST of the icons) you use on the desktop. This leaves a sense of incoherence and unesthetic laying around. Also, I pretty much like the initiative of having a default iconset coherent in Gnome and KDE.

Though, since I cannot listen and value only my opinion, I've tried to search some along the non-techy people I know.. And guess what? They also liked Tango, and pretty much valued to have the same icons both in KDE and Gnome (for you guys thinking that you DON'T use two desktops at once, think that you can have TWO applications in the same desktop running, one with GTK and one with QT).

But then again, Art is a taste. I don't like brown, though that doesn't mean other people don't have the right to like. What you think is non-sense (the round, irrealistic shade in icons), for me is a pleasure (not having an ultra-realistic desktop). :D I sometimes also look @ the screenshots of some people and think "uuugly!! how can they even USE that"... Thing is they like it...

Of course you can argue that we are talking here about a *default* iconset. So, putting Art and Aesthetics apart in this, I say: "we need a iconset that is exaustive". Give me one of those (Tango is aiming to), and I'll be happy.

Not to mention the tango dir icon is blue now.

I have to agree on that.. The folder is ugly...

[spooky-mac]

That cartoonish look on both sets is ugly. My favorite is NouveXT. It looks professional and not like a mickey-mouse cartoon. And the brown colored Tango folder looks like the Bluecurve icons.

[bvc]

What you think is non-sense (the round, irrealistic shade in icons), for me is a pleasureIf you get pleasure in something odd protruding out from behind every icon, and consider it aesthetic, then more power to ya :)
http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/images/Tango2.jpg

[bytter]

If you get pleasure in something odd protruding out from behind every icon, and consider it aesthetic, then more power to ya :)

From the poll, I'm not the only one...
Also, that screenshot just sucks...

[graabein]

I've switched around between Tango, Humility and Still Life since I upgraded to Breezy. I voted Tango because that is what I've been using lately and it fits best with my current theme which is softer than default Human...

The default icon set should match the default theme so it really depends on how the Dapper will look really...

I also think Tango needs more work, as already mentioned, on drop shadows and finding nicer looking folder icons and also rework the device icons. I don't like having boxes for every disc, drive and USB device... so I've switched those to the Still Life icons... anyways, those are three great sets in my mind so it's just a pleasure picking nits :D

[oldmanstan]

Wow, there are things i really like about each, specifically (for example) the music icon in human is way better, but the device icons in tango are more up-to-date (the human ones remind me of windows 3.1 for some reason).

I voted other because either one would need modification for me to personally use it, but either would be a great choice for Dapper

[bvc]

From the poll, I'm not the only one...
Also, that screenshot just sucks...
Like you said, look at peoples desktops and you have to wonder what they're thinking.

Yeah, that screenie bites. It was supposed to. It has those things sticking out. Not perfect but this is better.
http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/images/Tango3.png
except, no xml icon? :eek: Why! That's a major icon! What happened? :rolleyes: ...yea, yea, I know, it's beta...it's cvs.

[bvc]

My favorite is NouveXT. It looks professional and not like a mickey-mouse cartoon.I would agree if not for the fake/round shadows, unreadable navigation icons, and not enough contrast to see the smaller icons in toolbars, menus etc...

[bytter]

I would agree if not for the fake/round shadows, unreadable navigation icons, and not enough contrast to see the smaller icons in toolbars, menus etc...

Is there any iconset you like?
Which reminds me... Have you created icons for Human? If so, everything's explained :D

[bytter]

except, no xml icon? :eek: Why! That's a major icon! What happened? :rolleyes: ...yea, yea, I know, it's beta...it's cvs.

We all know it's missing lots of icons, that's why it is marked as 0.4.0. No need for screenshots, just go to here
http://tango-project.org/Tango_Icon_Gallery.

People are making an effort to keep the iconset going and look professional. Once again, from the poll, lots of people like it. That doesn't take credit away from the others iconsets...

Also Tango is not just about an iconset, it's about uniformization of icon-names *and* usability. Sure several iconsets out there are more "artistic" than Tango. But then again, will they be as usable? Will they be as exaustive as Tango is aiming for?

[bvc]

Is there any iconset you like?
Which reminds me... Have you created icons for Human? If so, everything's explained :D1) No
2) No
...has Humility become Human in Dapper? I'm still Breezy.

[bvc]

We all know it's missing lots of icons, that's why it is marked as 0.4.0. No need for screenshots, just go to here
http://tango-project.org/Tango_Icon_Gallery.
well I have the cvs. 0.4 is too old. I posted the screenies for convenient, quick reference to my point.


People are making an effort to keep the iconset going and look professional. Once again, from the poll, lots of people like it. That doesn't take credit away from the others iconsets...They can't be professional with elementary shadows.


Also Tango is not just about an iconset, it's about uniformization of icon-names *and* usability. Sure several iconsets out there are more "artistic" than Tango. But then again, will they be as usable? Will they be as exaustive as Tango is aiming for?Icon naming convention have long been out of control. Does exaustive=usable?
The standard icon theme in other os's have 100 to 200 icons. Gnome? Over 500. That's rediculous. The average user will never see over half of them. Complete and exaustive means nothing. Had this ridiculous standard not been set 4 years ago we wouldn't hear "it's not complete" with the release of every icon theme, and shouldn't. I'd take 100 nice looking, clear, defined, detailed, usable icons over 500 blurred G_HIG icons, any day.

[hachre]

Well seeing that most peoples opinions are kinda split here 50/50 I'd say:

-> Go Human as Default
-> Include Tango as alternative!

[bytter]

Well seeing that most peoples opinions are kinda split here 50/50 I'd say:

-> Go Human as Default
-> Include Tango as alternative!

Well.. Actually, I don't care what to use as default...
What confuses me is that Tango is actually ahead on the poll and people are questioning its existence... That doesn't seem pretty much coherent to me.

[bytter]

They can't be professional with elementary shadows.

Sorry... For me, that's a narrow view from your part. Your opinion, though, but not a fact.

Icon naming convention have long been out of control. Does exaustive=usable?

Exaustive can mean coherence in this context. Coherence in opening applications and seeing the same icon for the same action everywhere.

The standard icon theme in other os's have 100 to 200 icons. Gnome? Over 500. That's rediculous. The average user will never see over half of them. Complete and exaustive means nothing. Had this ridiculous standard not been set 4 years ago we wouldn't hear "it's not complete" with the release of every icon theme, and shouldn't.

Well.. Now you're questioning Gnome and Tango's choice to go along with that philosophy, not the Tango iconset.

Is 500 icons too much? I don't know, it depends... If you are counting an icon for every MIME/Type out there, then 500 is not that much. If you want to standardize icons like zoom in/out, zoom all, add point, create table, etc, etc.. then, it's not too much... You can argue though that a different icon for every file type is not necessary and (worse) not usable. You can also argue that a standard for every action out there is not usable either (I wouldn't say it's not usable.. I would say that it sure takes more work for artists).

I'd take 100 nice looking, clear, defined, detailed, usable icons over 500 blurred G_HIG icons, any day.

Define me clear, detail and usable.

[bytter]

1) No
2) No

Well... Now were are getting somewhere :D
Then point me one iconset (or one screenshot, a concept art, something), that you would point out as a professional, usable, defined and clear.

[dude2425]

*forces bvc's hand in the direction of gperfection icons*
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=22989

I've been trying to tell you all along. These icons are simple yet effective, good looking yet profesional. They are amazing icons. The theme I can do without as I have my own preferences, but the icons are top notch if you ask me.

Also, please, don't change the dafault icons at all. Probably include alternatives, or an easy way for new users to grab alternatives, but don't change something that "Just Works"

[benplaut]

*forces bvc's hand in the direction of gperfection icons*
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=22989

I've been trying to tell you all along. These icons are simple yet effective, good looking yet profesional. They are amazing icons. The theme I can do without as I have my own preferences, but the icons are top notch if you ask me.

Also, please, don't change the dafault icons at all. Probably include alternatives, or an easy way for new users to grab alternatives, but don't change something that "Just Works"

i concur on most points, but... they're kinda ugly :???:

take a look at the dropline series (Neu, Nuove, Etiquette)... that's what i call a theme...

it's too bad Neu would look horrid in brown, it's a wonderful theme :)

[Sykil]

To me, the individual Tango icons don't work well together, and that's my biggest problem with them.

[bvc]

yes, like I told lokheed....I have always hated the Gnome default icons. The first thing I do is change the icons after a new install. He has brought them to life, and I really like his revision of them and his additions. However, again, when talking default for a distro that strives to excel in the art department, green or gray isn't going to cut it, and for that matter no color other than what goes with the gtk and wallpaer will cut it. Of course I would much prefer gperfection over Gnome any day....who wouldn't? But, Human (brown) isn't any of the above and neither is Humility the right brown. Again, unified desktop, and color schemes to go with is how ubuntu could, and should, excel.
http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/screenshots/CL_Cairo-Human.jpg
http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/screenshots/CL_Cairo-Hedgehog1.jpg
http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/screenshots/CL_Cairo-Human-In-Blue.jpg
http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/screenshots/CL_Cairo-gperfect.jpg
http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png

Humility isn't there yet either. Too many missing and no shadows. No shadows isn't all that bad, and is better than the fake round things. Another big prob with Humility is that it attempts to follow the Gnome HIG that not even the Gnome Icons follow :???:
You can't give all image types either the same or different icons, not have text on them, and be able to tell what type of image it is. There must be text on the icon, otrherwise you have to look at the extension, which kills the effectiveness of the icon. Gnome HIG is very old and rarely followed. It's is wrong and outdated and needs serious revision.

[bvc]

Sorry... For me, that's a narrow view from your part. Your opinion, though, but not a fact.Well, it's been confirmed by others in this thread and the authors of 4+ other icons sets that have either chosen to export to png and use real shadows, or have chosen to leave the shadows out. ;) So yes it is fact.

[Zonkle]

I vote for the "Human" theme, but that doesn't mean I don't like the "Tango".

The "Tango" I think gives more like "KDE" look, and "Human" gives the impression of Ubuntu and its coffee look :D and I would like to stick to Ubuntu feel.

Thanks.

[clparker]

If it ain't broke, dont fix it, besides, I think the Human Look and Feel is distinctly Ububtu. Keep Human Default, but make Tango an Option?

[jadugarr]

I have to agree. I generally don't like icon themes that are too "cartoonish". I use gperfection or the graphite version in breezy as they are more polished and integrate well w/ other gnome icons. Tango and Human look ok, not as flashy as some of the default kde icons.
All of this really doesn't matter though, except to pick default icons/themes that will attract more users who wouldn't normally use linux. I have heard of people installing an insane ammount of distros on a couple computers to try them all out for a few minutes, and basically all they do is see which one has the nicest look/feel (I know this sounds very dumb to all of us, but there more people that do this than you think). All of here know how to change themes/icons from defaults so we need to think about new users. Those that prefer brighter/glossy iconsets might prefer kubuntu. Not to get into the gnome vs kde thing as both are good desktops, but are designed for different preferences. Choice is what is really important. Maybe make it easier for new users to get new themes/icons by adding some of the more popular to a repo.

[Adrian]

The "Tango" I think gives more like "KDE" look

Actually, that was my first thought when I saw them. Reminds me, too, of KDE.


http://www.gnome-look.org/content/sh...?content=22989

I've been trying to tell you all along. These icons are simple yet effective, good looking yet profesional. They are amazing icons. The theme I can do without as I have my own preferences, but the icons are top notch if you ask me.

I definitely agree! Awsome icons.

[bvc]

Last I heard, Human is not the default and neither is Humility, Gnome is. Why was Humility Icons posted and called Human? Was Human done away with and Humility renamed to Human in Dapper? If the Human Look and Feel is distinctly Ububtu, you'd have to define what that means. Human gtk and Metacity with Gnome Icons, and a wallpaper? How is that distinct? Because the gtk, metacity, and wallpaper are brown? Add matching icons and then you are disctinct. Throwing green gnome icons in there amongst all the browns is what we call a mess. A distro w/o artist, that has an art team? :???:

[mortram]

I think Human should be chosen as default.

But there should really be at least 3 *good* alternative themes included. Why not include a couple of the more popular window borders, icon sets along with the distro?

Breezy includes quite a few themes, most of which nobody uses. Why not include both the Human AND Tango themes?

[Baptiste]

Why not chose nuovext?

[benplaut]

Why not chose nuovext?

^^

that is a frikkin awesome icon set, but unfortunately too vista :(

[lusepuster]

Tango.

I prefer gPerfection myself but believe their fanbase is too narrow.
I don't like Humility; except from the colour, they look a lot more like wanna-be KDE icons to me with their glossy 'crystal' look. I hate fake plastic on my computer screen.

Tango has a big heritage from the old Gnome and gPerfection themes but is sleeker and take less attention. It looks pretty much like the Oxygen icons, the to-be default icons of KDE 4 that are really nice, too. A unified overall look of Linux might help brand it, anfd that won't hurt either.

[mojo]

If GNOME is still the default then you will see Tango appears soon because jimmac has commited that he will push Tango to replace 'thick-stroke' style icon of GNOME. :D

Last I heard, Human is not the default and neither is Humility, Gnome is. Why was Humility Icons posted and called Human? Was Human done away with and Humility renamed to Human in Dapper? If the Human Look and Feel is distinctly Ububtu, you'd have to define what that means. Human gtk and Metacity with Gnome Icons, and a wallpaper? How is that distinct? Because the gtk, metacity, and wallpaper are brown? Add matching icons and then you are disctinct. Throwing green gnome icons in there amongst all the browns is what we call a mess. A distro w/o artist, that has an art team? :???:

[Kapre]

I'll go with the Human theme. I just feel the "Human" aspect of it (me being brown;)

[FLeiXiuS]

The TANGO icons are pretty schaweet. But I do like teh default Human theme.

[bvc]

If GNOME is still the default then you will see Tango appears soon because jimmac has commited that he will push Tango to replace 'thick-stroke' style icon of GNOME. :D
He has a lot of minds to change. It has been established that svg is too resource intensive to be the default. Cairo has added to that frustration, so until some major optimizations are donem, don't count on that happening. Gnome can't take another hit like what cairo has pushed on us, so right now any svg theme is out of the question as default ;)

[mojo]

He said Tango will be in GNOME 3.0, there is lots of time for optimization :D

He has a lot of minds to change. It has been established that svg is too resource intensive to be the default. Cairo has added to that frustration, so until some major optimizations are donem, don't count on that happening. Gnome can't take another hit like what cairo has pushed on us, so right now any svg theme is out of the question as default ;)

[Efwis]

Human theme

To me the tango theme is too plastic looking. Actually it looks like something you would find on M$ Windows. It's bad enough we have to "compete" with M$ for users, do we really want to start looking like them????

[GazaM]

Efwis, by trying to be an elitist Microsoft hater you have just complemented them... by saying that the professional, clean Tango icon set looks like something from Windows. We are not 'competing' with anyone by the way, we are here for whoever wants to use linux. Also, HOW can you say Tango is more plastic looking than the Human theme is beyond me! I'm not flaming you but please, think about what you say before you post it on the forums.

<edit>by the way, Cairo CVS has a tone of speed improvements and runs almost as fast as non-cairo gnome... the main problem I see with using pure svg for all icons is the bluriness of svg when displayed at small sizes, eg. 24x24 or less... perhaps that will be improved in the svg rendering engine sometime in the near future or perhaps it's just an unavoidable issue with the whole concept of scalable graphics.

[Efwis]

Efwis, by trying to be an elitist Microsoft hater you have just complemented them... by saying that the professional, clean Tango icon set looks like something from Windows. We are not 'competing' with anyone by the way, we are here for whoever wants to use linux. Also, HOW can you say Tango is more plastic looking than the Human theme is beyond me! I'm not flaming you but please, think about what you say before you post it on the forums.

<edit>by the way, Cairo CVS has a tone of speed improvements and runs almost as fast as non-cairo gnome... the main problem I see with using pure svg for all icons is the bluriness of svg when displayed at small sizes, eg. 24x24 or less... perhaps that will be improved in the svg rendering engine sometime in the near future or perhaps it's just an unavoidable issue with the whole concept of scalable graphics.
frist, I'm not a elitist MS hater, I dual boot because I want to.
Second, thats just my personal opinion. to me it looks like something Windows would use.

[GazaM]

Efwis: I may have 'jumped-the-gun' a bit there, what I meant to say was that you're comment sounded more than a tad elitist... not that you are elitist, I'm sure I have made comments which sounded elitist too, and I dual-boot and definitely don't hate MS. Personal opinion is fine, but everything in your post from "Actually it looks..." was pretty stupid... It is far from the Windows default theme, and any other icon themes on windows are made by people like the guys making Gnome themes, just people who want to make the desktop better looking. If you can link me to a Windows theme which looks exactly like Tango I'll retract my statement, but I doubt I'll have to. I don't want to start a flame war, but icon themes are about art, NOT competing with any other OS or trying to look as different from them as possible (think of all the OsX clones and how popular they are).

By the way, http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=31261, this guy is repackaging the Tango theme as a normal Gnome theme as the latest Tango theme wont compile on breezy for many people including me. He has just finished 0.5.0 and it is far better than 0.4.0 IMO... nice blue folder icons and the nav-arrows have had a needed colour change to a more vibrant green... all in all it's shaping up very nicely and I look forward to seeing Tango being default in Gnome hopefully.

[pertti]

by the way, Cairo CVS has a tone of speed improvements and runs almost as fast as non-cairo gnome... the main problem I see with using pure svg for all icons is the bluriness of svg when displayed at small sizes, eg. 24x24 or less... perhaps that will be improved in the svg rendering engine sometime in the near future or perhaps it's just an unavoidable issue with the whole concept of scalable graphics.

In http://tango-project.org/Generic_Icon_Theme_Guidelines#Small (http://tango-project.org/Generic_Icon_Theme_Guidelines#Sizes) they say that they'll use vectorized icons, except for the small and extra small icons (22x22 and 16x16), so there's no need to worry about that.

By the way, I voted for Tango though I can't stand that display icon ;).

[GazaM]

Yeah, the 'computer' icon is the only one I REALLY dislike, but I can see that changing as a lot of people seem to dislike it. I would really like to see some stock icons getting done now... Evolution looks sweet with a nice set of icons (someone on Gnome-look.org has posted a NuoveXT evolution icon set), at the moment there are some icons in evolution themed and others not, which is off-putting but it's only v0.5.0 so I can't complain. Can't wait for that version 1 :P

[HanZo]

by the way, the guy at art.gnome says there is a version of the latest tango in brown (that matches the human theme) deos anybody know anything about this? I couldn't find it anywhere...

[joshuapurcell]

Most of us don't know what icons we would be voting for/against in this poll. You have a link to examples?

[Aphorism]

Human

Based on the current look at the head of this thread, Human really wins out. It is clean. It is distinct.

I don't want my operating system looking like Apple. Thanks.

Can we round out the package and integrate those lovely cursors from

http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=19506

http://www3.telus.net/aphorism/Ubuntu_Cursors.png

[Aphorism]

Human

Based on the current look at the head of this thread, Human really wins out. It is clean. It is distinct.

I don't want my operating system looking like Apple. Thanks.

Can we round out the package and integrate those lovely cursors from

http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=19506

http://www.gnome-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=2&id=19506&file1=19506-1.png&file2=19506-2.png&file3=19506-3.png&name=Pinux%27s+Tux+Cursors+Theme

PS: Is Ubuntu going with the rounded windows in dapper? It is the only minor tweak I would include by default, and I am just wondering about it based on the screenshots.

[atoponce]

HUMAN

Human definitly wins out. I want my Linux operating system looking like Linux, rather than Mac. Human definitely accomplishes this. It's just so clean and smooth. It would be great to see that icon set included by default in Dapper Drake.

[ad noiseam]

I did vote for the Tango set when this thread was open, but am quite turned off with the new version of these icons (for example the blue tint on the folder one), and have come to like the Human icons.

There is of course still room for improvment on both sets of icons (both folder icons are really not that great), but the Human one would now have my vote, if I hadn't voted earlier.

[Burning Bronx]

I really don't see the point of this thread. I mean Gnome has great themability and other window managers are equal or even greater in this aspect (Enlightenment?). I think Ubuntu should stick to the theme that fits it's slogan (Humanity towards others) best. I have voted "Other" cause my first impulse was "I never use native themes" but I think for a default theme Ubuntu should stick to what it is - human.

[Mobus]

I like the Human one, because I find the tango one to be a little too cartoonish. Although we should be able to modify the icon sets to our own liking once the OS is installed. I'd actually like to make a combination of both, but the majority of the icons would be human.

[MasterPi]

I like Tango for two reasons:

1. Its probably going to emerge as the standard for Linux distros. Human probably won't since it is identified with Ubuntu and thus Ubuntu-haters will not use it for the same reason everyone else is rejecting any icons that look anything like Window$ or Mac. Also, I don't know Human has a KDE version or support for other desktops, like Tango is working on. This is important because standardization of look and feel makes it easier for new users to come over to Linux. Users who like Human from past versions probably know how to change it back, whereas it is important for new users to feel at home. The goal is not to limit customizability, but having standard defaults really helps with the learning curve, especially in a distro targeted towards new users.

2. It uses a wider selection of colors. This makes it easier to choose a different wm/widget theme and have it still work. This helps with 1. as well because all the distros have their favorite color schemes and Tango is more flexible for this. It also lets new users change their colors to suit their tastes without losing their icons, which for many visual users are important anchors. I'll never forget when my mom complained about the OOo icons changing between Windows and Linux. Of course I didn't believe her; why should the same application have different icons? But it turned out she was right, and it made me realize that because I'm comfortable with other aspects of the OS I deal with icon inconsistency without even realizing it.

You can use whatever icon set you like, personally I use Noia because its Sexy, but we should standardize the default with other distros.

[MechR]

I really prefer Tango's soft-glow lighting over the shiny-plastic look. Plus, it seems like brown doesn't go so well with shiny plastic :???:

That said, I wish the Tango folders were a bit lighter-colored. And the flat-screen monitors look folded in the middle at smaller sizes...

[ossi]

I, too, choose human out of the two. Though I don't like both too much. I 'd prefer a bit a "smoother" look and more technical, less cartoon based.

[gonçalo]

I choose tango. Well I alternate between tango and blank-on. The human theme although very good, somehow looks too techno. Tango looks more human than Human.

But I do have a problem with the folder icons on Human, they look too bulky and 3d to my taste, they should be flatter. And the general look on the human colors is, at least on my CRT very intense, so I prefer the smoother tango color scheme.

Another thing is that the tango icon set is less atractive, they don't seem to shine, I mean I have them on my desktop and I'm not drawn to them, and that happened a lot with the Human iconset. My atention was always falling on the bin or folders [bulky] or the documents look.

[gonçalo]

We need unity on the base instalation. I installed Ubuntu for my sister, and she is working with it and she hasn't touched a thing, theme wise. And she is not a tinkerer like most of us here, and the majority of the people will not fuss about icon sets and ways to overhaul the desktop besides their cat pic's on the background. [I do have my cats on the desktop by the way] Most people don't consider personalizing [does this word exist?] the desktop besides the background picture. My sister loved the ubuntu brown look, I showed her all the stuff that is in gnome-look and she told me she would go there sometime...tango seems a very good project, to give consistent look is a good thing, and besides we all know how to change it. What is the first thing we do when we fresh install?


Any way, There could be a default DE and Distro independent theme/icon set and then a standard universal theme/icon set for free OS's, not just gnu/linux but the other little devils as well. It would be another link to glue what sometimes feels overly fragmented movement. And for identity purpose a simple logotype suffices.

[bourrinlepoulpe]

i prefer the human theme it's a little warmer for me

[Crazy Man]

I much prefer the tango theme. The human thing is a bit too brown for me...

[garba]

these icon themes sure are nice, problem is I can't cope with them for longer than five minutes because a lot of icons are missing either because they haven't been made yet or just because they've been misnamed... whatever, a new icon theme for gnome is badly needed, the "home" icon alone makes my icon bar look like crap

[Lu-Tze]

I voted for human..but it was really too close to call...but I guess I will install both sets anyway...my desktop keeps changing...:)

[omeg]

I believe that Jimmac (http://jimmac.musichall.cz/)'s old Gnome 2 icons are so much better than any of those.

I sincerely hope that they will still be in as optional icon set...

[kaamos]

Damn the new ubuntu brown Tango folder icons are sweet!

[artnay]

Human is not developed anymore, so I guess it won't make the default one. AndyFitz is doing a new icon set, it will be ready in the end of January 2006. Please take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoProposal. Feel free to edit it, too.

[Gray.]

Tango, they look nice and simple yet modern and purrty.

*EDIT* kaamos you're right it does look really nice :D

[brimlar]

I have never written in to a forum here but this is something I feel strongly about.

Of the two themes, Human is better. BUT, they (as others have pointed out) pale in comparison to NuoveXT.

1) Yes, some of the navigation buttons are not done well enough but that is something that could be taken up with the author, who I'm sure would be more than happy to oblige.

2) He has ported his theme to KDE, so even Kubuntu could use it as well.

3) It is under active development.

Yes, NuoveXT looks a little Vista-ish, but it is one of the first truly professional-looking icon sets I've ever seen in Linux.

*BIG SIGH*

[Gray.]

People will always like a certain theme/icon-set while others will not. I like Tango for it's looks but also the fact that it will help keep some sort of familiarity and 'integration' (for lack of a better word) between KDE and Gnome.

[Clement]

I prefer human icons even if tango are nice too ,:KS
however i dont like hardrivve icon in human set.

[bvc]

Human is not developed anymore, so I guess it won't make the default one. AndyFitz is doing a new icon set, it will be ready in the end of January 2006. Please take a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoProposal. Feel free to edit it, too.
Oh man... 'an new icon set' ? That'll make 3, starting at etiquette. None of which came even close to being finished by the stardard people scream 'complete' ...which I don't follow btw. Seems like it takes Andy so long, the freshness dies off and something new is desired, or something. Obviously, someone that actually has the time to do it should be given the opportunity to take a crack at it. A year has already been wasted. Call it Yasis (http://art.gnome.org/themes/icon/1168) and be done with it (after exported to png and given good shadow, of course).

[noob_Lance]

I personally like tango... where can i get those icons :D i want them now haha :p

[encompass]

In my opinion... icons need to look like icons not symbols... in the example you showed... music symbol or just the speaker in the paper sheet... I go for the paper sheet... it looks more like an icon. if anyone gets what I am saying.

[Hygelac]

Other: Human looks nice, but it would be nicer if the folders were Tango blue instead of brown (I've never liked all the brown in Ubuntu).

[jeff--]

I like the human set better. I think it looks really good with breezy so why switch?

[Buffalo Soldier]

I voted other.

I like both.

The new Human should be the default. Or maybe tango with Human colors. Let's see how they will evolveI voted for Human. But I do agree with ubuntu_demon... Tango with Human colors would be nice.

[artnay]

Oh man... 'an new icon set' ? That'll make 3, starting at etiquette. None of which came even close to being finished by the stardard people scream 'complete' ...which I don't follow btw. Seems like it takes Andy so long, the freshness dies off and something new is desired, or something. Obviously, someone that actually has the time to do it should be given the opportunity to take a crack at it. A year has already been wasted. Call it Yasis (http://art.gnome.org/themes/icon/1168) and be done with it (after exported to png and given good shadow, of course).

Actually, I guess it will be the fourth one. Etiquette, Human and Humility are the earlier projects. They all share quite similiar metaphor with slight changes. Now, the latest icon set will be based on Tango metaphor and Freedesktop naming scheme.

Actually you're given an opportunity to take a crack at it. Eventhough Etiquette is GPL'd (and so are Hum*, I guess), the next set might be CC-SA 2.5. Andy hasn't confirmed the license yet. So what? Tango is licensed under CC-SA 2.5 so I guess Andy could permit to use his earlier icons with CC-SA 2.5 theme. This way we could combine the best parts of Tango and Andy's icons, thus making a unique icon set to Ubuntu.

Oh well, this is all just speculation. :confused:

[bvc]

The biggest diff in Etiquette and Human is that Human had more icons, so I didn't count that as 2 themes.

based on Tango metaphor?
wonder what that means.

combine?
sounds like a smorgasbord :???:

What is wrong with finishing what has already been started? No need to answer. I already know, which is why I won't get involved in the politics ;) which is what stops just anyone from taking a crack at it ;)

[artnay]

based on Tango metaphor?
wonder what that means.


I guess that means it will use the same symbols for the same icons, although the graphics have been altered. For example Tango uses a hard drive and an arrow in it instead of a diskette for saving action. That is a metaphor. You probably knew that already so I didn't quite understand you on this one. :???:


combine?
sounds like a smorgasbord :???:


Heheh. No, it's not meant to be eaten! As you said, the previous icon sets have lacked icons and therefore one could call them incomplete. So now as there's a metaphor to be followed, it makes the designing process a bit easier. No need to recreate the wheel once again. This way Andy (or anybody else) could utilize the incomplete sets and design the missing icons by following tango metaphor. Oh, one could contribute to Tango project, too.


What is wrong with finishing what has already been started? No need to answer. I already know, which is why I won't get involved in the politics ;) which is what stops just anyone from taking a crack at it ;)

This actually could be finishing the job that was once started! Nothing wrong with it. Umh, I answered. :confused: If you already know that, care to tell it to others as well? I think we're not on the same page as I didn't quite understand your politics statement. I'm probably missing some relevant information.

[bvc]

Oh, I get it...
since Andy is not able to complete a set (that is not a bad thing because it is extremely time consuming) then just follow the Tango metaphor and use it to inherent. That's better than nothing, I guess. So how is this finishing the other themes? It's not. Someone will change their mind again in a few months, and we'll have to start over again so....we'll believe it when we see it.....and there's still the slow, resource intensive, svg problem to solve as well. When tango makes default for gnome, do ya think it'll be svg? Based on the slow cairo release in gnome2.12 I wouldn't doubt it, but it most certainly shouldn't be.

Concerning my politics statement....
just follow the money ;)

[Virogenesis]

This is my first post but I've been browsering the forums for some time since hoary actually and I actually thought I'd add my input to things.

Human - ok theme but not finshed off and not polished off either.... the icon for tar.gz looks awful

Tango - awful looking sorry just think its a bad design totaly I couldn't do better because i'm terrible at graphics.

Does Tango work with many themes and wall papers I personaly don't think so I actually think It'll be off putting to most in many ways as its very amiga-ish sorry it looks very old.

For icons I also believe paper should be used....
eg: paper with css written for handling css files...

BVC clearly knows what hes talking about when it comes to theming hes probaly the best themer around his unity theme is fantasic and all his work is of the highest quality i just wish someone would follow in his foot steps and create a decent iconset.

Another thing that you'll find that is commonly hated is missing icons.
Will we ever see any decent themes none of this cartoonish stuff....
Its like me thev first thing I did when i installed hoary was look for ways to change the thing which I did I went for a milk theme which seems to be very popular and as for all this colour scheme do we need it as its very poliitcal with its earth idea...
great idea but users don't like brown its like how often do you see a brown car?

Pick something that works....who cares if its mac-os x ish or vista like.... base your ideas around something that appeals to masses not because it has this linux feel or what have you.
aslong as its polished off properly and the themes work together no point having very square icons when the widgets are pretty round.

Thats basicaly my input I hope it helps somewhat.

[Virogenesis]

Another thing please don't change the mouse icons they are fine

[ameerirshad]

I vote for Human now, but I see many Tango icons I prefer, I would like to see some mixture :confused:

[Bandit]

Can we mix them? There are a few icons I like in both.
Cheers,
Bandit

[bvc]

Can we mix them? There are a few icons I like in both.
Cheers,
Bandit
in the index.theme of the icon theme put;

Inherits=Tango,gnome

or whatever. Icons will be searched for in order. Use the exact name that the icon theme uses in it own index.theme file.

[kevcart3]

Definately Tango, I love the Tango Icon set!

[Norberg]

I prefer the human theme.

[jaboua]

Of those, definitly Human. Is there an URL for the current version?

I like colors, Dropline Etiquette would be good too :D

[felix.rommel]

Tango icons are my favorite ones - but only starting with version 0.4 since the folder icons are blue and the other icons were improved in terms of colors, shapes etc. They are much more relaxing for the eyes than the Human icons.

I like it how Jimmac uses the different colors like green for the basket and yellow for undo, blue for the magnifier etc. etc. This makes the icons easy distinguishable und fresher looking than the Human icons.

They look much, much better than the old Gnome stock icons which looked very unprofessional in my point of view and didn't blend with modern themes like Clearlooks. They could be a little bit more shiny like the Crystal icons but are very good at the current level.

And one of the big advantages is that the icon names are specified the same way for Gnome and for KDE. This will make it easy to use it in both DE's and makes Gnome and KDE apps look more conform. They make a good base for an enterprise version like Dapper.

[gil-galad]

The tango icon set looks awesome with the new version of clearlooks!

I don't know how well it would look with the human theme, however.

[Virogenesis]

how about garGANTuan?

Its alot more polished off compared to tango and human.
for example look at how many icons have been created its fantasic.
The whole of pref.s has been done pretty much.
Install http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=24364 and see what I'm on about the cd could be redone as it is horrid but with a theme like this is you don't have to worry about colour scemes.
Thats the beauty...

[jaboua]

Personally I dont like the GTK stock icons or the GANT/-like icons...

[und3rtug4]

Just as said, Tango icons are too cold at look!

I think that the HUMAN icons are nicer!!!!;) ;)

[jsmidt]

I would like to see crystal clear.

[Shadyman]

I like Tango, because I like to keep my desktop in a blue-theme, as opposed to the ubuntu-brown :cool:

[mojo]

Yay! Finally, Ubuntu Forum has migrated to Tango icon, I can see the new trend for GNOME icons. Nice.

[bvc]

looks silly
blue?
:confused:

[el3ktro]

I definitely prefer Tango, looks much more clean & professional. I don't like the HD icon in Human at all, it just doesn't fit with the rest, and looks unprofessional, sorry.

Another pro-Tango thing: It was really, really time to replace this annoying ancient FLOPPY DISK as a save button with something else!!! ;-)

Tom

[pinguinus]

I'd choose gPerfection2 icons.

[markcaetano@gmail.com]

where can i get dapper so i can decide 4 my self it looks so good
and can it rin on 500mhz with 128 ram

[el3ktro]

where can i get dapper so i can decide 4 my self it looks so good
and can it rin on 500mhz with 128 ram

Come on, go to google.com and search for "download dapper" there are plenty of mirrors ...

Tom

[markcaetano@gmail.com]

if i could i would
but i only have dialup and it's only 30 k
speed
can i get it from shipit?

[bvc]

It's only one cd! Put that linux machine to work and wget -c it while you sleep. I did it for a 3 cd distro and it took 2 weeks.

[markcaetano@gmail.com]

problem is i have only got 1 phone line that my net conn and phone share
and i need my phone

[madmetal]

human is more familiar to ubuntu but tango is brilliant!
i vote tango!

[bvc]

problem is i have only got 1 phone line that my net conn and phone share
and i need my phoneyou talk on the phone while you sleep? :-?

[Kray]

Tango is dull, not sharp enough, many icons are uninteresting, too detailed or blured. Ok, icons aren't so bad but I don't like color scheme...

I don't like Human too much either, lol...

At the end my vote goes for Tango, but without much enthusiasm. Icons should be sharp and color should be more bright to fit my taste...

Personally I like Eclipse icons (examples: http://www.softpedia.com/progScreenshots/Eclipse-Screenshot-22760.html) - good at small sizes and quite desciptive IMO. Of course this is not Gnome icon theme, I'm just talking about overall feeling...

[gabbman]

Other, I'm going to install Gartoon anyway. :)

[NoWhereMan]

damn, I like the tango project aim, but i must admit I like the human theme more (i feel like a traitor :oops: )

PS: the computer icon of tango looks ugly if small sized (I zoom icons @75%)

[jeffjj]

Other, I'm going to install Gartoon anyway.
:). I second that. I also did not realize until this weekend that this theme is included in the distribution (through apt) and is also one of the officially supported themes. For some reason since hoary I have not done much exploring through the repository and just kind of have been using the apps I was used to.

But if I had to vote I like Tango.

[locohijo]

Personally, I like the Tango icon set as it's more 'lively'. Human icon set looks somewhat too professional for my taste.

I voted for Tango but both icon sets are good though.

\\:D/

[Copter]

they both look good. great work! but for me, dunno why, tango is too gnomish. i have chosen Human.

copter :]

[Mystery47]

I just like both of those......in Ubuntu version 5.10 what i use now....i use Human. I hope that Dapper put those both in use.....:)

So i my vote go 50-50%....

ps. Dapper is eyecandy anyway ;)

[tsrjzq]

I prefer to the human icons, for Breezy 5.10, the icons looks a little ugly...
so, I install a icon theme from gnome-look.org, which looks like human, but more beautiful.

[c1ean]

Tango is so much more clean and crisp. The new human set is nice, but... still seems too bulky.

[felix.rommel]

I like the new Human folder icons which I prefer over the Tango ones. But some of the new Human colors/icons don't look good.

For example the red/brown left/right arrows in Nautilus look a little bit strange...

And some of the new Human icons look unsharp - see screenshot. Please Designers don't make the mistake to make them as unsharp as the outdated old Gnome icons which look like if they are from the 80ies.

[rodrigo666]

Tango has a much better clear look and it's easy to read the text select by the mouse cursor in a menu.

My father probably can't read with Human theme.