Lateforgym
July 26th, 2008, 06:18 PM
I have some suggestions so read through. If you dont like noobs and take their complaints as personal rants, then just drop down to my suggestions.
Im trying to stress a noob experience where most of you seen to know this stuff off the top of your head. Having seen and used live CD, I am impress with everyones work here. I really appreciative of what is done I am certainly impressed, let me be clear on that. Since the following is written in frustration dont take it as a personal attack, but I will understand if you do.
Perhaps I dont understand the concept of community/open source. But I have spent 12 hours, including not going on Friday night, to make Hardy work on a USB flashdrive and it has been futility. I even bought a new USB just to make sure my other wasnt bad. After excessive "programming", IMO, and following the instructions on the most prominent website hit in a Google search, it appears clear to me that somehow people have made the installation guides on a USB a mess. Thats is, way too many websites with too many choices on how to install on a USB stick for a nubie. After much searching, It appears Ubuntu on a USB stick is sketchy at best in 7.10 and 8.04. While there may be a proper way of doing this, I should not have to have spent 10 hours, just to get into the final stages of success and find out ubuntu on USB is a gamble. Here are some things I noticed:
1.) The most popular Google website on mounting has problems with with DL files in version 7.10 and 8.04 and makes no note of being issues. Search "install ubuntu on usb". Many have noted a "unable to lock the /home/ubuntu/.iceAuthority" error, yet this is the most popular site??
2.) The following link is over-information. Just give people 2 ways to install: the easiest for noobs, that is point and click and 2.) the "Advanced" methods. If you want to have other ways, do like windows and collapse and mark as "Advanced".
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
3.) This method doesnt work: https://launchpad.net/liveusb -- probono . Its crappy when you have to click on a secondary page to find out that "CAUTION: This is experimental software. Do not use on production systems. ". Gee thanks guy for wasting my time and giving yourself a disclaimer. Put it on the front page of your site and dont make you project it look so official if its not. Further, I accidentally clicked Options to find out after a few installs that I wasnt check a necessary box: Persistent. Well, if the whole point of doing this guys method was to be able to have an Ubuntu mount, why have a hidden checkbox for the exact thing your trying to do?
4.) Too easy for noobs to screw up "programming". For example the words "unmount" was used so much I logically typed "unmount" not realizing that the proper was "umount". Several of the websites have keyboard keys that dont exactly match the average users, so I have to sit for many minutes trying various key to figure out that "fdisk -(squigly s)" is actually "fdisk -L"
5.) Linux fans work way to hard to have a wiki-mess of various websites and forums all showing different way of doing something and why this and that website directions dont work. Which brings me to my suggestions
Suggestions:
1.) Have a USB forum and disclaim all other websites and forums, so people, like me dont have to do hours worth of webreading, picking up a tip here and there to get Ubuntu to mount. Simply make a sticky how-to with the easy method with a link to the advanced method for those that have to much time on their hands. I simply have given up after trying so many thing of various websites. I cant see why one would not see the obviousness of this suggestion. Have a moderator who updates the sticky and notes known issues as well as another sticky with a data base of bad USB drives if that is an issue too.
Its obvious to me that linux fans put a lot of time into this and should be rewarded for their work. However I dont think they no longer have the ability to put themselves in the shoes of a noob. Put another way. Most main-streamers wont have use for a live CD since you change setting and update files, and programs. So the next logical method is USB. Now put yourself in a noobs shoes:
1.) Doesnt want to run linux inside of windos since it windows is not bootable (due to windows sucking and corrupting boot files easily) its pointless.
2.) Doesnt have to time to partition a HDD and re-load Windows and Linux (Although it would have been faster for me to do so after all this).
3.) Want to load on a USB as the best alternative, yet has 20 websites of multiple how-too's which require a lot of "programming".
4.) Most people need firefox and open office. (which ubuntu has but not all linux OS has)
5.) Ubuntu is the best linux product so, he would assume to start there.
I think my logic is simple just set up a USB forum with a sticky on a known stable version and good USB drives. I would rather use ubuntu 6, if it works, then waste all this time on ubtunu8. If ubuntu 6 is rock solid on a usb with only certain laptops, then create another sticky noting what works, known good , known bad. Further, is Ubuntu just sucks on USB as a stable-daily system then note it in another sticky and encourage people to use another distro.
But, perhaps Im missing the point. Since this is open source perhaps Im am to contribute more time then I originally thought? I did take the time to add suggestions. I hope they are productive. I just think that high-end linux people take thier basic understanding for granted and dont see how hard it is for a noob to get involved. Why not take credit for your great work and make it drop dead simple for noobs to get use Ubuntu. I do get the impression Ubuntu works well with a full-clean HDD install and that there are major problems for someone like me who simply wants to plug in a USB stick a couple times a week and follow linuxs growth.
To illustrate why not having good USB documentation is a bad for ubuntu developers; Im not planning on using Ubuntu on my HDD. Given all the work I had to do only to find out the hard way the USB and Ubuntu dont mix well, I dont get a that happy feeling tell me to spent hours repartitioning and re-installing 2 OS's.
I'm going to stay onboard and kick myself for my ignorance later as Im sure I said some things that are just stupid. Im going to definitely keep liveCD in my toolbox. I like it. Its a shame I had such a hard time with this given how awesome linux is.
Sorry for bad grammer, Im too burned out to edit. Im also too burned out to make this work so please hold questions on the specifics of what didnt work. I REALLY appreciated the help with my posts, but Im just burned out at this point. Im sure I feel like a jerk later for writing this.
Im trying to stress a noob experience where most of you seen to know this stuff off the top of your head. Having seen and used live CD, I am impress with everyones work here. I really appreciative of what is done I am certainly impressed, let me be clear on that. Since the following is written in frustration dont take it as a personal attack, but I will understand if you do.
Perhaps I dont understand the concept of community/open source. But I have spent 12 hours, including not going on Friday night, to make Hardy work on a USB flashdrive and it has been futility. I even bought a new USB just to make sure my other wasnt bad. After excessive "programming", IMO, and following the instructions on the most prominent website hit in a Google search, it appears clear to me that somehow people have made the installation guides on a USB a mess. Thats is, way too many websites with too many choices on how to install on a USB stick for a nubie. After much searching, It appears Ubuntu on a USB stick is sketchy at best in 7.10 and 8.04. While there may be a proper way of doing this, I should not have to have spent 10 hours, just to get into the final stages of success and find out ubuntu on USB is a gamble. Here are some things I noticed:
1.) The most popular Google website on mounting has problems with with DL files in version 7.10 and 8.04 and makes no note of being issues. Search "install ubuntu on usb". Many have noted a "unable to lock the /home/ubuntu/.iceAuthority" error, yet this is the most popular site??
2.) The following link is over-information. Just give people 2 ways to install: the easiest for noobs, that is point and click and 2.) the "Advanced" methods. If you want to have other ways, do like windows and collapse and mark as "Advanced".
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
3.) This method doesnt work: https://launchpad.net/liveusb -- probono . Its crappy when you have to click on a secondary page to find out that "CAUTION: This is experimental software. Do not use on production systems. ". Gee thanks guy for wasting my time and giving yourself a disclaimer. Put it on the front page of your site and dont make you project it look so official if its not. Further, I accidentally clicked Options to find out after a few installs that I wasnt check a necessary box: Persistent. Well, if the whole point of doing this guys method was to be able to have an Ubuntu mount, why have a hidden checkbox for the exact thing your trying to do?
4.) Too easy for noobs to screw up "programming". For example the words "unmount" was used so much I logically typed "unmount" not realizing that the proper was "umount". Several of the websites have keyboard keys that dont exactly match the average users, so I have to sit for many minutes trying various key to figure out that "fdisk -(squigly s)" is actually "fdisk -L"
5.) Linux fans work way to hard to have a wiki-mess of various websites and forums all showing different way of doing something and why this and that website directions dont work. Which brings me to my suggestions
Suggestions:
1.) Have a USB forum and disclaim all other websites and forums, so people, like me dont have to do hours worth of webreading, picking up a tip here and there to get Ubuntu to mount. Simply make a sticky how-to with the easy method with a link to the advanced method for those that have to much time on their hands. I simply have given up after trying so many thing of various websites. I cant see why one would not see the obviousness of this suggestion. Have a moderator who updates the sticky and notes known issues as well as another sticky with a data base of bad USB drives if that is an issue too.
Its obvious to me that linux fans put a lot of time into this and should be rewarded for their work. However I dont think they no longer have the ability to put themselves in the shoes of a noob. Put another way. Most main-streamers wont have use for a live CD since you change setting and update files, and programs. So the next logical method is USB. Now put yourself in a noobs shoes:
1.) Doesnt want to run linux inside of windos since it windows is not bootable (due to windows sucking and corrupting boot files easily) its pointless.
2.) Doesnt have to time to partition a HDD and re-load Windows and Linux (Although it would have been faster for me to do so after all this).
3.) Want to load on a USB as the best alternative, yet has 20 websites of multiple how-too's which require a lot of "programming".
4.) Most people need firefox and open office. (which ubuntu has but not all linux OS has)
5.) Ubuntu is the best linux product so, he would assume to start there.
I think my logic is simple just set up a USB forum with a sticky on a known stable version and good USB drives. I would rather use ubuntu 6, if it works, then waste all this time on ubtunu8. If ubuntu 6 is rock solid on a usb with only certain laptops, then create another sticky noting what works, known good , known bad. Further, is Ubuntu just sucks on USB as a stable-daily system then note it in another sticky and encourage people to use another distro.
But, perhaps Im missing the point. Since this is open source perhaps Im am to contribute more time then I originally thought? I did take the time to add suggestions. I hope they are productive. I just think that high-end linux people take thier basic understanding for granted and dont see how hard it is for a noob to get involved. Why not take credit for your great work and make it drop dead simple for noobs to get use Ubuntu. I do get the impression Ubuntu works well with a full-clean HDD install and that there are major problems for someone like me who simply wants to plug in a USB stick a couple times a week and follow linuxs growth.
To illustrate why not having good USB documentation is a bad for ubuntu developers; Im not planning on using Ubuntu on my HDD. Given all the work I had to do only to find out the hard way the USB and Ubuntu dont mix well, I dont get a that happy feeling tell me to spent hours repartitioning and re-installing 2 OS's.
I'm going to stay onboard and kick myself for my ignorance later as Im sure I said some things that are just stupid. Im going to definitely keep liveCD in my toolbox. I like it. Its a shame I had such a hard time with this given how awesome linux is.
Sorry for bad grammer, Im too burned out to edit. Im also too burned out to make this work so please hold questions on the specifics of what didnt work. I REALLY appreciated the help with my posts, but Im just burned out at this point. Im sure I feel like a jerk later for writing this.