Microsoft looks to 'Mojave' to revive Vista's image

[MellonCollie]

Microsoft looks to 'Mojave' to revive Vista's image

After months of searching for ways to defend its oft-maligned Windows operating system, Microsoft may just have found its best weapon: Vista's skeptics.

Spurred by an e-mail from someone deep in the marketing ranks, Microsoft last week traveled to San Francisco, rounding up Windows XP users who had negative impressions of Vista. The subjects were put on video, asked about their Vista impressions, and then shown a new operating system, code-named Mojave. More than 90 percent gave positive feedback on what they saw. Then they were told that Mojave was actually Windows Vista.

Continued... (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-9998336-56.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20)


:lolflag:

[ELD]

Yeah i read that ealier, and to be honest i'm not suprised, most vista haters have never used it, i tried it before and didn't think it was half bad.

[insane_alien]

when i first tried vista+SP1 (vista pre SP1 was a disaster for me). i was initially impressed by it as it was better than i expected. however, after a few weeks of usage cracks started showing.

its usuable for a home user but if you want to do some proper computing then it'll show its weaknesses.

[tuxxy]

Before they try and add even more eye candy wouldnt it be a great idea to fix things which are actually broke or are recurring problems for the OS such as net disconnetions/ compatibility issues...

[Midwest-Linux]

when i first tried vista+SP1 (vista pre SP1 was a disaster for me). i was initially impressed by it as it was better than i expected. however, after a few weeks of usage cracks started showing.

its usuable for a home user but if you want to do some proper computing then it'll show its weaknesses.


Yes I have noticed both IE and even Firefox crashing at various times. Another thing is the "creeping ram" (where the ram usage starts to climb even after long periods of non use)... I thought they fixed the so called "Memory leakage".

[insane_alien]

firefox is fine for that with me.

i get incredible fragmentation on my drive for some reason even when i'm not doing much.(spent a day on FS2004 :P) drive fragmentation increased by 38%(i had to download a 3rd party tool to analyse my drive thanks to MS crippling the defrag utility.)
needless to say that slowed down everything a fair bit.

i also had some issues with disk access and video playback that never got resolved even with MS tech support(hell).

wireless was flaky and i would normally put that down to the fact that it is a draft-n card but ubuntu works it flawlessly.

[karellen]

he-he...a clever exploit of the herd mentality

[fiddledd]

Helps to prove what I've thought all along. There's just as many people putting down Vista who have never used it, as are putting down Linux yet have never used it.:)

[Twitch6000]

Well ofcourse it will work if its preinstalled because it has everything setup.
Try upgrading or installing it on a computer with xp or linux is different.
I tried and it hated my laptop :(.
It is suppose to be vista capable too lol.

[rockface]

Helps to prove what I've thought all along. There's just as many people putting down Vista who have never used it, as are putting down Linux yet have never used it.:)

Good point. Unfortunately for Microsoft and their army of sycophants many people have tried Vista and do hate it for valid and personal reasons. They gave Vista a resounding thumbs down. I'm still waiting for Microsoft and their minions to put a positive spin on this. Maybe that will be part of this advertising campaign.

[ELD]

I will try windows again when 7 comes out and see how that turns out. Hoping the problems will be fixed by then.

[insane_alien]

windows 7 as origionally planned, sounded great, yet already we are seeing features getting dropped (MinWin kernel for instance)

the same was true of vista, the origional plan would have produced a decent operating system but they pussified it into a UI update more than anything.

[ELD]

they pussified it into a UI update more than anything.

No offense but that is bull, Vista has massive amounts of changes, i am by no means a Microsoft lover or user infact but there was a lot of change and effort put into it.

I think 7 will be a big imporvement, well i hope anyway.

[tdrusk]

Now we need to tweak Ubuntu's interface to make it look Windowsish, then see if they like it better.

I guess they were not using standard computers in this study.

[insane_alien]

No offense but that is bull, Vista has massive amounts of changes, i am by no means a Microsoft lover or user infact but there was a lot of change and effort put into it.

I think 7 will be a big imporvement, well i hope anyway.

I do realise that there is more than just a UI update but thats what it FEELS like when using it.

it feels like xp has been prettified and they've tacked on everything else as an after thought.

[JoneYee]

Ok

1.> I have used Vista, and deployed MS Server 2008 with Hyper V
2.> I have used Linux, including Ubuntu and FC/RHEL releases

I hate Vista, 2008 has some problems, and its non-GUI option is weak. I still deal with Vista (as my wife will not retrograde or move off of Windows entirely, which is understandable)

This is not surprising. The guy who sits behind me at work LOVES Vista. I make fun of him about 3 times a day when it crashes on him.

They tried to put Vista on my work perk laptop, and eventually succeeded, but I installed XP on a different partition and boot to it, which in turn boots to a VM of Ubuntu for me to work from (my Microsoft Partner company won;t offer a Linux corporate image).

This ploy by MS is kinda like a Video Game. You ever get the graphic quality that is show inside a video game box, or in online trailers. Me neither. They showed the best of what Vista had, mostly visually and most likely ran it without User Authentication, so people weren't reminded about how many times Vista asks you if you are sure you want to open the Control Panel.

[LittleLORDevil]

I really liked this article and finally puts proof to people jumping on the Vista hating bandwagon because it is cool to do. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Microsoft fanboy but every product has it's strengths and weaknesses and we all have our reasons I just hate it when people dislike something without even using it. I can't wait to see the marketing twist on this poll.

[Battie]

I'm not surprised by this either. I don't mind Vista at all, and education on its changes really helps. I hated UAC and disabled it on my work computer, but once I learned what it was doing and why I came to appreciate it. I've enabled it again so that I can understand how it behaves so I can help others work with it.

I also found the installation incredibly easy, even on a laptop. I was really surprised that I only had to dig up a few drivers for it. XP on the same laptop would have pretty much nothing available until I installed the drivers manually.

Don't get me wrong, I do have some issues with Vista (plus my video driver tanked this morning... nothing wakes an IT person up quite like seeing a BSOD mirrored gloriously across her own two screens).

[rockface]

I'm not surprised by this either. I don't mind Vista at all, and education on its changes really helps. I hated UAC and disabled it on my work computer, but once I learned what it was doing and why I came to appreciate it. I've enabled it again so that I can understand how it behaves so I can help others work with it.

I also found the installation incredibly easy, even on a laptop. I was really surprised that I only had to dig up a few drivers for it. XP on the same laptop would have pretty much nothing available until I installed the drivers manually.

Don't get me wrong, I do have some issues with Vista (plus my video driver tanked this morning... nothing wakes an IT person up quite like seeing a BSOD mirrored gloriously across her own two screens).

'Don't get me wrong, I do have some issues with Vista (plus my video driver tanked this morning... nothing wakes an IT person up quite like seeing a BSOD mirrored gloriously across her own two screens)'

I have always found the majority of Windows users will give the benefit of doubt to Microsoft because they are familiar with their products. I am also of the opinion that these same people will pick fault with Linux even when it does not exhibit any of the same problems.

When it goes pear-shaped under Vista it's the OEM driver's or third party application's fault. When it goes ****-up under Linux, for what ever reason, IT IS Linux's fault.

This is a mindset that still confuses the hell out of me.

[Battie]

'Don't get me wrong, I do have some issues with Vista (plus my video driver tanked this morning... nothing wakes an IT person up quite like seeing a BSOD mirrored gloriously across her own two screens)'

I have always found the majority of Windows users will give the benefit of doubt to Microsoft because they are familiar with their products. I am also of the opinion that these same people will pick fault with Linux even when it does not exhibit any of the same problems.

When it goes pear-shaped under Vista it's the OEM driver's or third party application's fault. When it goes ****-up under Linux, for what ever reason, IT IS Linux's fault.

This is a mindset that still confuses the hell out of me.

Haha, I've seen this happen too. I don't tend to blame either in these situations unless I really know what happened (my issues with Vista have nothing to do with the crash this morning). I don't know for sure what went on this morning; the crash dump wasn't too detailed. I just went to ATI and got the latest drivers and hoped that was that. I do have a new error to research though: the TDR timeout (STOP 0x116). I love this stuff.

Anywho, I think people have the mindset because when they are a fan of something it can be hard to admit that something else is just as good or better. I notice with anything that people are quick to pick faults with the new thing because it will help the feel justified when staying attached to the old. People who crave change or like many different thing probably aren't as prone to this, but those who prefer the Good Old Way generally will be.

Edit: TDR -- http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/display/wddm_timeout.mspx

Kinda cool.

[rockface]

Haha, I've seen this happen too. I don't tend to blame either in these situations unless I really know what happened (my issues with Vista have nothing to do with the crash this morning). I don't know for sure what went on this morning; the crash dump wasn't too detailed. I just went to ATI and got the latest drivers and hoped that was that. I do have a new error to research though: the TDR timeout (STOP 0x116). I love this stuff.

Anywho, I think people have the mindset because when they are a fan of something it can be hard to admit that something else is just as good or better. I notice with anything that people are quick to pick faults with the new thing because it will help the feel justified when staying attached to the old. People who crave change or like many different thing probably aren't as prone to this, but those who prefer the Good Old Way generally will be.

Edit: TDR -- http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/display/wddm_timeout.mspx

Kinda cool.

Interesting information on TDR. The last time I tried to do the right thing and use 'Online Crash Analysis' was under XP and not Vista. It promptly crashed and burned. Nothing was logged in the event viewer no information whatsoever. I never bothered again and turned of the service.

[Battie]

Interesting information on TDR. The last time I tried to do the right thing and use 'Online Crash Analysis' was under XP and not Vista. It promptly crashed and burned. Nothing was logged in the event viewer no information whatsoever. I never bothered again and turned of the service.

I went ahead and clicked the Online Crash Analysis. It didn't give me an answer, but was helpful enough to link me to ATI's site and suggest how to get a new driver. Not a bad step up...

[Arthur Archnix]

Here's a link to the video about the mojave experiment.

http://www.mojaveexperiment.com/

[Joeb454]

I quite like making the video's wave like a flag in the wind ;)

Other than that the site doesn't have much :p

[MaxIBoy]

Guaranteed, if they took "Mojave" home for a three-week "beta test," things would be different.

[pi.boy.travis]

This totally shocked me. . . I seriously can't believe it. . .

[cardinals_fan]

It would be FAR more convincing if they showed you the people DURING the test. It's kind of hard to trust when they don't let you see how "Mojave" actually worked while the people were using it.

[wrtpeeps]

Guaranteed, if they took "Mojave" home for a three-week "beta test," things would be different.

Seriously? You know this?

[pi.boy.travis]

This is a insult to scientific studies everywhere.

[wrtpeeps]

This is a insult to scientific studies everywhere.

:rolleyes:

[saulgoode]

Anybody have the specs on these "Mojave-capable" computers?

[nerd0795]

I personally like Windows Vista. I barely ever have problems with it. I find the main reason why people think Windows Vista sucks is from the mac vs. pc commercials, and mac fanboys.

[cprofitt]

I prefer Linux, but Vista is not as bad as people say... and it is a lot better than OS X from my experience.

[cammin]

Anybody have the specs on these "Mojave-capable" computers?

The site just says it was a HP Pavillion DV2000 with 2GB ram.

Since a DV2000 has a ton of options as far as processors and video cards go, who knows what the real specs are. 2GB ram is maxed out for that laptop, so expect the rest of the laptop to have parts from the high end range of available options.

[Joeb454]

Vista's quite snappy on my laptop.

1.73Ghz Core 2 Duo

Intel 945GM graphics

2GB RAM

[pi.boy.travis]

Vista wan't all that bad, although I can't say that I miss all those popups and security warnings and "you must restart for so and so to continue"

[Giant Speck]

Now we need to tweak Ubuntu's interface to make it look Windowsish, then see if they like it better.

I guess they were not using standard computers in this study.

They'd have to do quite a bit of tweaking. Out of all of the Vista lookalike themes and such I've seen on Ubuntu, I have to say that none of them even come close to the genuine Vista look.

Just watch... Windows 7 will come out and everyone will be jumping to make Windows 7 themes for Ubuntu. And they'll look like crap, too.

[fiddledd]

Vista's quite snappy on my laptop.

1.73Ghz Core 2 Duo

Intel 945GM graphics

2GB RAM

Same with my Laptop, specs are in my sig.

[tom56]

I have a HP dv2000 and Vista runs terribly. Nothing wrong with the OS itself per se but it is very slow on my machine. It runs fine with my girlfriend's laptop though. The main difference? I have 1gb of RAM, she has 2. For the added hardware requirements it doesn't seem to do anything that XP or Ubuntu can't. Hence why I run Ubuntu and not Vista. Ubuntu runs much faster, and though I haven't tried XP on my laptop it runs fine on my desktop which also has 1 gig of memory.

[pi.boy.travis]

How I wish Apple would release a Linux iTunes. . . sigh. . .

[Betsybuntu]

Just watch... Windows 7 will come out and everyone will be jumping to make Windows 7 themes for Ubuntu. And they'll look like crap, too.I see that too but I also thought once Office 2007 hit that Open Office might adopt a ribbon-like interface.

Since a DV2000 has a ton of options as far as processors and video cards go, who knows what the real specs are. 2GB ram is maxed out for that laptop, so expect the rest of the laptop to have parts from the high end range of available options.Honestly, you don't need much in terms of CPU and GPU to run Vista so I'd be surprised if they upgraded either, especially since they noted the memory increase. I think the 945G is a newer IGP that does Aero fine. If that's the case it shouldn't run into any issues with Media Center or Internet Explorer... I doubt they were trying to run SupCom to impress people. :P

[Cope57]

How I wish Apple would release a Linux iTunes. . . sigh. . .

Write them and request it. If enough people requested the service, they may create the application needed.
I personally do not need the iTunes service, but I am sure many will contribute to get it. Start a petition or something, get active. ;)

[Giant Speck]

I see that too but I also thought once Office 2007 hit that Open Office might adopt a ribbon-like interface.


I'm secretly hoping they do. :)

Oh crap, I guess it's not a secret anymore. :p

[pi.boy.travis]

I never really understood the new Office interface. It is really bizarre. . .

[MaxIBoy]

The new Office interface is extremely annoying. I prefer OpenOffice's interface.

[Jeeeep]

This is a insult to scientific studies everywhere.

Am I the only person who agrees that this is a half-hearted attempt by Microsoft to make the Mac/Linux communities look bad? Granted, most of the Vista hate comes from people who have never even used the system (I've never really used it either. I've set up a friend's Wi-Fi network with it before, but I haven't used it enough to form a true, honest opinion), but that doesn't give Microsoft the right to act like complete idiots in their marketing schemes.

Seriously, it's a joke. First off, these people were given PCs to use. Pre-selected PCs, that were selected by Microsoft. It's not as if it's difficult for MS employees to simply run a few tests on the hardware to make sure everything works perfectly on that one machine. Part of the merit of an OS is the ability to be used on various pieces of hardware, including the one that you have before you even make the decision to upgrade. Having to buy a new computer just to use the damn thing plays a huge role in the quality and usability of the system. I'm certain next to nobody would use Ubuntu if they had to buy a new PC for every release, no matter how awesome the improvements were.

Secondly, how long were these people given to mess around on these things? The fact that they're on pre-selected PCs makes a huge difference as well. This people on it didn't have any of the comforts or programs that they're used to having, and it's impossible to form a good opinion on a system based upon just an hour or so (granted, I haven't even watched the video yet, so maybe my rant is slightly ironic) of messing around. To fully understand all of a system's pros and cons, you have to take it home, install it on your PC, and try to do your normal, everyday things with it for a while. It's then that the little quips about the systems begin to make themselves clear and annoy you, and when the giant gaping flaws make your life miserable. If these people just sat around and mashed buttons for an hour, of course they wouldn't have come across Vista's flaws, just as mashing buttons for an hour on the live CD of Ubuntu Hardy won't let you see all of its flaws either.

Lastly, if I was given a temporary PC to try out, I wouldn't go ahead and install all of my regular programs, visit my regular sites, etc. (especially knowing that the PC belongs to Microsoft) I wouldn't actually try to use it, I'd probably just use the included tools (which Microsoft has the capability to guarantee will work perfectly) and try to make the best opinion that I can. Well, you can't really make a good opinion on a system, again, unless you actually try to use it just as you would use your computer normally.

Honestly, it's this kind of BS that gives Microsoft their bad reputation in the first place, haven't they learned anything? ;/

[karellen]

for me it seems a pretty decent marketing movement. the fact is there are many (especially Linux users) that bash Vista without actually really using it, just because it's a MS product (or a non-free one); childish attitude, if you ask me

[rockface]

for me it seems a pretty decent marketing movement. the fact is there are many (especially Linux users) that bash Vista without actually really using it, just because it's a MS product (or a non-free one); childish attitude, if you ask me

I asked a simple question on a Microsoft IRC channel six months after Vista's release.

'Is Vista what Microsoft promised?'

And not one person could give me a straight response without making excuses on Microsoft's behalf.

Some of us Linux folk have purchased Vista and have given it a fair crack of the whip. Although regular patching and updated drivers have improved matters somewhat, Vista still leaves alot to be desired.

I think a number of ordinary everyday Microsoft users share the same view of Vista as many of their Linux/*BSD/OSX counterparts, that Vista is a 'Windows too far'.

'Mojave' is stagemanaged and scripted containing nothing spontaneous or random. Not one critical or objective comment but orchestrated in such a manner as to give the illusion of choice.

I sometimes wonder just how much Microsoft users will take, how far can they be pushed. Maybe that breaking point is upon us.

[Betsybuntu]

Am I the only person who agrees that this is a half-hearted attempt by Microsoft to make the Mac/Linux communities look bad?Possibly the only one, yes. :P Just advertising if you ask me.

I never really understood the new Office interface. It is really bizarre...Bizarre? Maybe. I like it though. It's about damn time they did something to Office.

I'm secretly hoping they do.I don't think the OOo devs will unless there is massive demand. If they did it would just go to prove that open sourcers just copy what the vendors are doing.

I think a number of ordinary everyday Microsoft users share the same view of Vista as many of their Linux/*BSD/OSX counterparts, that Vista is a 'Windows too far'.What does 'Windows too far' mean?

I sometimes wonder just how much Microsoft users will take, how far can they be pushed. Maybe that breaking point is upon us.I'm sure the open source revolution is just days away. :D I think the Mojave Experiment is only offensive to a small group of people.

[rockface]

'What does 'Windows too far' mean?'.

Pretty self-explanatory I would have thought, do I realy need to go into detail?

'I'm sure the open source revolution is just days away.':rolleyes:

This comment, more than any other, told me your entire position on the matter. I have heard remarks to this effect a hundred times before, I dare say I will hear them a hundred times more. The 'open source revolution' you cite is happening now, look around and open your eyes. Or do you feel a degree of security keeping them shut.

'I think the Mojave Experiment is only offensive to a small group of people.'

I don't find it offensive in the least, I just consider it rather a crass attempt to show Vista has some sort of misunderstood grassroots appeal.

You come across as similar to many people I bump into on Microsoft forums.
'Firefox is cool and all but everyone knows Internet Explorer IS the internet'. :)

[fiddledd]

I asked a simple question on a Microsoft IRC channel six months after Vista's release.

'Is Vista what Microsoft promised?'

And not one person could give me a straight response without making excuses on Microsoft's behalf.

Some of us Linux folk have purchased Vista and have given it a fair crack of the whip. Although regular patching and updated drivers have improved matters somewhat, Vista still leaves alot to be desired.

I think a number of ordinary everyday Microsoft users share the same view of Vista as many of their Linux/*BSD/OSX counterparts, that Vista is a 'Windows too far'.

'Mojave' is stagemanaged and scripted containing nothing spontaneous or random. Not one critical or objective comment but orchestrated in such a manner as to give the illusion of choice.

I sometimes wonder just how much Microsoft users will take, how far can they be pushed. Maybe that breaking point is upon us.

OK, firstly I hope I've not already posted the same words, though I bet they'll be similar to before.:)

You'll know from my previous posts that I use, and like, Vista, and I also use XP. One of the problems with many of the opinions online is they don't match the opinions of people in the street. I'd guess that of every 100 Microsoft users only 10 even know they are using a Microsoft product. They've bought a PC/Laptop and they just use it, and, if the OS was pre installed, it will probably do everything they want it to do. My Wife is a secretary to an organisation, and has to use email, type letters, and copy files. She also copies her photos from her camera to the PC, and prints them out. But she doesn't even know she's using Windows XP, she doesn't even know what an Operating System is. This isn't because she's stupid, it's because to perform the tasks she needs to on the PC, she doesn't need to know. It just has to work, like the fax machine, the TV, or the micowave, or her mobile phone. Now the IT pros and the OSS advocates are different, they know about Microsoft, and about Linux, and know what an OS is, and they often give their opinions in blogs or forum posts. But the only people that read these texts are the same as the writers, they either agree or disagree with the opinion. But the majority of Computer Users never see these posts, and they did, they wouldn't understand a word of them.

So all I'm saying is mostly all we are doing is debating amongst ourselves, sort of like a Debating Society. We are either for or against, but the majority of the public don't even have an opinion about what's being discussed, and probably never will.