i forgot how painful it is to install windows XP...

[Stefanie]

I'm wondering why everybody keeps saying that "windows XP works out of the box and Ubuntu doesn't". When it comes to installation, it's the other way around - at least that's my experience.

Today I installed Windows XP on my parents' new computer, and it was really horrible. I had to install tons of drivers (mobo, the sound card, graphics card, wireless card, printer, scanner etc) and after every installation I had to reboot. It was incredibly slow and somehow the driver for the wireless card managed to mess up the Windows logon screen (no graphical logon, and my parents can't live without that, I had to delete a registry entry to fix the issue).

Software installation was even more time consuming: firefox, antivirus, firewall, office, e-mail client, photo-editing,... Most of them required reboots and I had to install useless software like quicktime.

It's a nightmare if you compare it to Ubuntu - Synaptic is so useful.

[Bachstelze]

Installing Windows XP is indeed very time-consuming, but it's not that painful. Just click Next, Next, Next, grab a good book, click Finish ;)

[Can+~]

I agree with you; I had a similar experience months ago.

People use their windows xp for quite a long time, and they are happy with it's stability, but they forget how much work it needs on the first days.

[Ozor Mox]

I totally agree. When I used Windows I used to format my computers every six months to a year because of the usual Windows slow downs. Since using Ubuntu I must have forgotten how annoying that was since, when formatting a few friends' computers, I was astounded by how useless Windows is when you first install it. It might be all next, next, next at first, but then you still have a lot of work to do once it first boots up. Inserting driver CDs and going to websites to find drivers (once your ethernet card or wireless card have drivers of course!), installing software from all over the internet and from CDs, installing anti-virus software and updating it, Windows updates, etc. etc...

Ubuntu is almost always fully working out of the box, and all useful software is already installed. Anything else you need can be fetched all in one go using Synaptic. How anyone claims Windows "just works" is incredible.

[Bachstelze]

Ubuntu is almost always fully working out of the box, and all useful software is already installed. Anything else you need can be fetched all in one go using Synaptic.

To you, perhaps. To me, the default Ubuntu installation is lots of useless junk, and very little useful things. So I have to start with a minimal system, then install and configure X, install mdadm ans configure my RAID, install KDE, zsh, the b-e's, and other stuff, compile mplayer and Aegisub, etc.

Not quite as time-consuming as Windows, but not exactly straightforward either ;)

[gn2]

Xp works out of he box because it has already been properly put in the box prior to sale.

With Linux normally users have to put it in the box themselves, and the box might not always be a suitable receptacle.

More boxes are being designed with Linux in mind nowadays, even pre-installed on the new lifestyle accessory, the netbook, so I think the Linux future is rosy.

As for installing Xp, all the drivers and required security software, I agree, it's a royal PITA.

[thisiam]

i found a good solution that works great for me. do the install, do all the updates and install all your drivers and A/V and firewall and such programs that you always install at first. now make an image of your intallation and future installations i use the image.

[rune0077]

I'm wondering why everybody keeps saying that "windows XP works out of the box and Ubuntu doesn't". When it comes to installation, it's the other way around - at least that's my experience.

Today I installed Windows XP on my parents' new computer, and it was really horrible. I had to install tons of drivers (mobo, the sound card, graphics card, wireless card, printer, scanner etc) and after every installation I had to reboot. It was incredibly slow and somehow the driver for the wireless card managed to mess up the Windows logon screen (no graphical logon, and my parents can't live without that, I had to delete a registry entry to fix the issue).

Software installation was even more time consuming: firefox, antivirus, firewall, office, e-mail client, photo-editing,... Most of them required reboots and I had to install useless software like quicktime.

It's a nightmare if you compare it to Ubuntu - Synaptic is so useful.

You do realize you don't have to reboot every single time? You can just install all the programs/drivers, selecting the "reboot later" option, and then reboot just once when it's all done. If done that way, it takes no time at all (provided you have the drivers at hand) and is not slower than installing Ubuntu.

[Darkade]

Agree, Just last week I installed Both Ubuntu and XP in my aunt laptop (She was sick of vista) and it was horrible (the XP part)!!

Ubuntu I got installed in about 30 min, and then I proceed to install wine, since she has a piece of software she can't live without (She is a medic, and I really couldn't find any replace) It wouldn't run on wine so I was about to install Virtualbox when I said... well if anyway I'm gonna install VirtualBox I probably should install Windows...

Insert Windows CD format it again and about 1 hour and a half I finally had a desktop, then came the software... antivirus, firewall, and LOTS of drivers, Not even ethernet port would work out of the box!!! and of course most of it meant reboots, reboots, REBOOTS!!!
Then I started downloading service pack 3 and went to bed (maybe 2am) by when I woke up (about 7 am) I finally could install it... which might have taken abut another half and hour...

So around 5 or 6 effective hours later She had her laptop... just sick

[Darkade]

You do realize you don't have to reboot every single time? You can just install all the programs/drivers, selecting the "reboot later" option, and then reboot just once when it's all done. If done that way, it takes no time at all (provided you have the drivers at hand) and is not slower than installing Ubuntu.

Yeah but that not always works, most things won't work 'til you reboot and some of those things you need to move on with the rest of installation process

[billgoldberg]

I don't really mind installing windows and installing software. I like that.

One of the things that always bugs me is once you are booted into xp (or vista for that matter) your desktop remains unusable for at least a minute or more.

I haven't gotten any anti-xxx software installed (only use it for gaming).

I have a small 30gb xp partition for playing css and the time it takes from when the desktop is loaded until steam is started always frustrates me to epic proportions.

[TBOL3]

Some things are like that. But you still have to reboot a few times in the updates.

[saltrello]

After installing XP the first message it gives is "your computer may be at risk"
:lolflag:

[rune0077]

Yeah but that not always works, most things won't work 'til you reboot and some of those things you need to move on with the rest of installation process

Once you got the system installed and capable of booting, you don't need anything else to install the rest. None of what you install works until after the reboot, but you can probably live with a low-resolution display and without Firefox until you've installed everything.

[Darkade]

After installing XP the first message it gives is "your computer may be at risk"
:lolflag:
TRUE!! hehehe, damn anti-virus LOL

[Stefanie]

Once you got the system installed and capable of booting, you don't need anything else to install the rest. None of what you install works until after the reboot, but you can probably live with a low-resolution display and without Firefox until you've installed everything.

the motherboard cd told me: 3 drivers to install, 2 reboots needed. it rebooted automatically, couldn't stop it. same for the drivers for the printer and the wireless card. i needed a windows update to install some software and again the system had to reboot... it just drove me crazy.

[rune0077]

the motherboard cd told me: 3 drivers to install, 2 reboots needed. it rebooted automatically, couldn't stop it. same for the drivers for the printer and the wireless card. i needed a windows update to install some software and again the system had to reboot... it just drove me crazy.

Weird. I haven't installed XP in a long time, but I don't think I ever had to reboot more than once.

[CarlosNYB]

I have a printer working out of the box on linux, but the same printer requires a CD installation and reboot on XP.

For Win2k and a custom box I needed to reboot several times with drivers for the motherboard, network card, etc. That same box was up and running just fine with Ubuntu, except for having to go to Synaptic and loading ndisgtk for my wireless card from the Ubuntu CD. The printer works just fine out of the box on linux, but on the XP box upstairs it required drivers for windows and the install puts in all this 'utility' crap that hogs up resources.

[zmjjmz]

Believe me, it's really easy if you get it from the OEM.
I set up my Mom's new T61 last month with XP Pro, and the only time consuming things were opening Internet Explorer (I went straight to opera.com) and removing Norton in favor of ClamWin.

[Ozor Mox]

To you, perhaps. To me, the default Ubuntu installation is lots of useless junk, and very little useful things. So I have to start with a minimal system, then install and configure X, install mdadm ans configure my RAID, install KDE, zsh, the b-e's, and other stuff, compile mplayer and Aegisub, etc.

Not quite as time-consuming as Windows, but not exactly straightforward either ;)

I realise not everyone will use everything that Ubuntu comes with. I don't use Evolution for example. My point was, it is usable when you first start it up. And if you want to make a custom install, it gives you the choice by doing a command-line installation. I have used it myself a few times, definitely not straightforward though, you are right :)

[Jinxx]

I'm wondering why everybody keeps saying that "windows XP works out of the box and Ubuntu doesn't". When it comes to installation, it's the other way around - at least that's my experience.

Today I installed Windows XP on my parents' new computer, and it was really horrible. I had to install tons of drivers (mobo, the sound card, graphics card, wireless card, printer, scanner etc) and after every installation I had to reboot. It was incredibly slow and somehow the driver for the wireless card managed to mess up the Windows logon screen (no graphical logon, and my parents can't live without that, I had to delete a registry entry to fix the issue).

Software installation was even more time consuming: firefox, antivirus, firewall, office, e-mail client, photo-editing,... Most of them required reboots and I had to install useless software like quicktime.

It's a nightmare if you compare it to Ubuntu - Synaptic is so useful.

I've noticed this as of late, too. I got a new HDD, 500GB, and decided to keep dual-booting Windows XP and Ubuntu like I had been with my 80GB drive - space wouldn't be a problem, after all.

That was the first time I'd sat down, installed Windows XP, and then installed Ubuntu directly afterward. Experiencing both in the same day opened my eyes! I used to come on these forums and complain about how Ubuntu was "supposed to work" and "didn't". The saying goes that you don't appreciate a good thing until you've appreciated a bad thing, and I guess that's what it took for me.

Now, I've got nothing but Ubuntu taking up space on this wonderful 500GB drive of mine. Sure, I emulate Windows in VirtualBox when I need something...but that's all I do, is fake using Windows. Fitting, as it tries to fake being a decent operating system....

Rock on, Ubuntu. Rock the hell on. :)

[Dr Small]

Installing Windows XP is indeed very time-consuming, but it's not that painful. Just click Next, Next, Next, grab a good book, click Finish ;)
Must be a different version of XP then. The only versions I have delt with, require you to read everything, and use the keyboard. There is no GUI, it's all text-based.

The funny thing was, back when my Aunt was reinstalling XP, (I had to help her, of course) at every screen, unless she pressed a key quickly, her keyboard froze, and she had to reboot.

She finally got through it all, but had to write down on a sheet of paper what keypresses to press, and press them as soon as the screen appeared, else she would start back at square 1 again. It was really acting up on her...

Dr Small

[Saint Angeles]

To you, perhaps. To me, the default Ubuntu installation is lots of useless junk, and very little useful things. So I have to start with a minimal system, then install and configure X, install mdadm ans configure my RAID, install KDE, zsh, the b-e's, and other stuff, compile mplayer and Aegisub, etc.

Not quite as time-consuming as Windows, but not exactly straightforward either ;)

useless junk? maybe you are moderating the wrong website. there are thousands of people here that happen to like that useless junk. who selects these moderators anyway?

its funny when XP comes with almost no software and people whine because Ubuntu has too much software... OH NO!! TOO MUCH USELESS JUNK!!

does XP install KDE or mplayer or aegisub for you? no it doesn't. xp never gets native resolution or proper video card drivers... almost every printer requires install disks... hell, even monitors have install disks. wireless drivers? hah! try d-loading your wireless drivers on XP. its challenging when you require the wireless card for internet.

then you have to update your OS... ok. you select some REQUIRED updates but then you have to reboot. then you upgrade your IE and reboot... then you upgrade your media player and reboot... then for some reason, windows update finds more updates it didnt find earlier so you have to reboot.

lets not forget... a typical XP install requires you to rebooot 3 times before you can even get to a usable desktop (usually 800x600)

I install the software for all my friends, all my relatives, and all my coworkers. ive installed windows more times than i can count and even though i'm an "expert" at installing it, it still takes about 2 hours to get it decent... ubuntu only takes about 45 minutes and i am allowed to use all that useless junk for free!!

it makes sense that XP has a HORRIBLE install interface... its 7 years old now. you can't compare the ubuntu install to the XP one... but if you do, theres no way you could prefer installing XP.

[TheAlmightyCthulhu]

Well, on any decent system, the first thing XP setup will do is tell you you don't have any hard drives because it has no RAID drivers.

:P

[Can+~]

I HATE this thing:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/CanXp/restartNow-1.jpg

[TheAlmightyCthulhu]

I HATE this thing:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/CanXp/restartNow-1.jpg

ALERT ALERT!!! AWOOOGA!! AWOOGA!!!

SKY WILL FALL IN IF YOU DON'T REBOOT IN:

60...59...58....

(with no regard to what may be open and running at the time) :P

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Can+~, that's nothing! At least if gives you the option to /not/ restart. Vista's dooms you to the updater ultimately catching you off guard and restarting the computer, because it has no option for "leave the restaring up to me"; it only lets you postpone restarting by up to 4 hours.
(Speaking of which, wouldn't it be cool if Ubuntu's update restart saved the user's session to make it extra painless?)

I have to say, I am always a tiny bit hesitant to tout the "drivers are just there" angle. While it is true right now, and kind of handy, there is a sad detail that this is basically because Ubuntu's kernel has been jam packed with almost every driver available straight out of the box. That particular method does not strike me as very scalable, and I dearly hope something is done to make it tidier and cooler and debianer.

On the other hand, when generic and real drivers all fail, we can still fall back to a really good text shell. (TODO: A really really good text shell with an ncurses-based interface!)

Kind of off topic, but my favourite thing to point out these days is Ubuntu's comparably seamless startup process. Windows' flickers at least three times on my computer (once after logging in, once at the welcome screen, once mid-boot; none of these flickers is uncommon) and is almost entirely a black screen at which time I can "feel" a number of changes in the display. Ubuntu's, on the other hand, has a progress bar from start to finish and does not really black out except for that one spot where X comes in. Granted, it isn't always pretty looking, but it doesn't give off an aura of something being seriously wrong, since there is always something on the screen.
Then there's Fedora's bootup, which is just remarkable to gaze at. I open up my Fedora virtual machine entirely for the joy of opening and closing that Details pane in its boot splash :)

[Can+~]

Can+~, that's nothing! At least if gives you the option to /not/ restart. Vista's dooms you to the updater ultimately catching you off guard and restarting the computer, because it has no option for "leave the restaring up to me"; it only lets you postpone restarting by up to 4 hours.

Great I skipped Vista altogether. :guitar:

[mini_g]

I can understand all of the complaints. I recently built a desktop around the hardware acceleration enabled CPU, so I could test the nLite builds before burning the media.

I pity those who don't strip the "security" center and other unnecessary items, pre-install the SP's, updates, drivers, & programs, AND pre-tweak the OS to suit your taste. Though in a sense, this is what one does if they don't afterwards, but removing MSIE makes it worth it imho. :mrgreen:

[rockface]

I can understand all of the complaints. I recently built a desktop around the hardware acceleration enabled CPU, so I could test the nLite builds before burning the media.

I pity those who don't strip the "security" center and other unnecessary items, pre-install the SP's, updates, drivers, & programs, AND pre-tweak the OS to suit your taste. Though in a sense, this is what one does if they don't afterwards, but removing MSIE makes it worth it imho. :mrgreen:

I've used vlite and nlite with only a small degree of success. Just when I think I've got a compatible build some programme complains about an awol component. I got Vista down to a single CD. I was so proud of my endeavours until it came to testing it with all my software. Suffice to say my faith in my own judgement about what to and what not to crop was a little bruised.

In the past I have noted that maybe Microsoft should consult the guys behind nlite/vlite and put them on the payroll. But Microsoft needs to bundle media players and web browsers to give them another lock-in mechanism.

'i forgot how painful it is to install windows XP...', a seven year old OS on modern hardware? Nlite has the ability to slipstream service packs, hot-fixes and drivers. In theory you could include everything in an iso image and leave rebooting to a minimal.

[Newuser1111]

I HATE this thing:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/CanXp/restartNow-1.jpgAnd this thing?
http://playstationportablestuff.googlepages.com/VistaUpdates3498534.png

[Canis familiaris]

And this thing?
http://playstationportablestuff.googlepages.com/VistaUpdates3498534.png

But you can postpone in both cases.

The thing I dislike about WIndows updates is that they slow down the next startup and shutdown and you cannot do work while updates are being applied. In Ubuntu I can surf the web, do anything while running Updates.

[Midwest-Linux]

XP doesn't take all that long, its the updates and then the pain searching for drivers thats makes it long.

If one wants pain, try installing any OS on a very slow CD-ROM drive like this problematic Chembook 6133 laptop from hell I been attempting to install Linux on.

[mini_g]

I've used vlite and nlite with only a small degree of success. Just when I think I've got a compatible build some programme complains about an awol component. I got Vista down to a single CD. I was so proud of my endeavours until it came to testing it with all my software. Suffice to say my faith in my own judgement about what to and what not to crop was a little bruised.
I remember that happening to me often in the beginning of my usage of nLite. I mostly strip basic items right now unless the system that I'm installing it to requires that little space be taken due to HDD space. And pre-update the system too.

As a side note, I just put a non-original media XP on a Thinkpad, and man, the ThinkVantage System Updater is NICE. Install Windows, install it, and reboot. Download all of the drivers, utilities, and standard extra programs with only a couple of clicks and one more reboot.

I'm not used to working with OEM setups with the original media, so this is a nice break from the norm.

As for the automatic update, I simply turn off that service whenever possible.