[SOLVED] Thinking of getting a Mac - any pointers?

[MikeSz]

I used to have a good gaming PC which I used for games, and I run Ubuntu on my laptop which is my workhorse - however I gave the PC to my father as his need was greater than mine (his died and it keeps him, and me, sane :) )

So, I was looking to replace both and whilst I would like to play games, I obviously dont want to pay a fortune, and the main priority is my work. So I was looking at perhaps getting the best of both worlds and go for a Mac. Was looking at an imac - ive never had a mac before though have been told they are very powerfull. Im not a huge gamer, but I would like to play the odd few hours on something like COD4 or UT3, or perhaps something like oblivion (although I dont think there is a Mac release for that...) - so does anyone have any advice or suggestions on what the performance is like, is it better to pay a similar amount and just go for a good PC?

Can you dual boot a mac to work with Ubuntu as well as OSX and is it easy to do?

[kdb424]

Welcome to the world of no PC's and all macs. I would highly recommend that you get a mac. There are tons of advantages, and other than cost (which is very reasonable) it is the best thing out there. I would highly recommend a Macbook Pro, with 2 or 4 GB or ram depending on your needs. Other than the smaller hard drives, which are easily upgradeable, they are as powerful as most desktops and make a very good gaming laptop. Onto what you really want to know. Mac, like Ubuntu, is based on unix. If you are good with Ubuntu, if on the off chance that Mac does have a problem, you will be fine. Mad is a great Operating system to use as the "Daily Desktop" where you explore the web, mess with email, pictures, music, ipods, ect.Because Mac is more compatible with many popular formats, you could use this is your main operating system very easily. As for Windows, you can tripple boot it alongside Ubuntu also, so you will have all 3 operating systems, putting Virtual machines aside. Other than having Mac, and using an EFI and not a BIOS, it is pretty much the same thing as a PC and quite easy to switch. If you ever need help, or have any questions, you can contact me here or at kdb424@gmail.com. I have IM's too if you want to talk that way. All I am saying is that I highly recommend it over a PC, because it is the ultimate combination of everything.

PS: I am on my first mac (running Mac, Ubuntu, and Windows XP) right now, and loving it.

[MikeSz]

Many thanks for the comments! I think a MacBook Pro would probably be a bit excessive for my needs and is also a bit pricey. For games, I think you would need at least a 17” screen and the 17” model is £1,800! I don’t really want to spend more than £1000 and my thinking is that for this amount, I could buy a fairly decent gaming PC. Looking at the iMac however, I like the look of the 20” screen, the 2.66GHz Core Duo system looks like it would meet my needs for the moment, the remaining question is games – will the 256Mb ATI Radeon 2600 pro work with the native Call of duty 4 or Neverwinter nights? I know if it was a PC, you’d struggle with that kind of card, though I don’t have a clue about Macs so id rush out and buy one today if it will play those games to a good standard!

[kdb424]

I have gotten some impressive results with my Mabbook Pro. I bought my 15" as a referb and it was a very good price, and an amazing product. I would recommend checking out referbs for all apple items because they are very well referbished. I have had no problems with anything referb from apple in my past. (Ipods, routers, ect)

[Brightbelt]

I highly recommend getting a Mac - I did a huge PC-2-Mac conversion this year and after doing so, I regretted not having done it sooner.

I have a 24" aluminum iMac and that is more expensive - you mentioned looking at the 20" iMac. I will say these machines are fantastic and you can possibly get a very good quality used/refurbished 20" iMac from Apple, as kdb424 mentioned.

Folks quibble about the cost of Macs - but given that PCs crash and die after 3 to 4 years (at least most of mine have), you're saving hundreds of bucks in computer repair costs or in PC replacement.

Good Luck and Have Fun. Frank B.

[MikeSz]

Just been down to the apple store to have a peek. they do look very nice. Its the games that are worrying me though, I know id use the system for everything else, though I dont want to shell out £1000 and not have it do things like games - though from looking at their in-store selection, even Doom 3 specs were well under the 2.66GHz 20" model that I was looking at

[rockin_goliath]

How is Ubuntu's hardware support with the new aluminum Macs these days? I remember there being all sorts of problems with the wireless card, wireless keyboard, sound card and such. Has Hardy Heron improved the state of Ubuntu on the Mac? I am thinking about getting one, but I would totally remove OSX from the machine, so no access to Apple's drivers. Any thoughts?

[arsenic23]

Folks quibble about the cost of Macs - but given that PCs crash and die after 3 to 4 years (at least most of mine have), you're saving hundreds of bucks in computer repair costs or in PC replacement.


Now I'm not going to come in here and Mac bash; I don't really have anything against Macs but.... How can you say that modern Macs are going to last any longer then a modern PC? They pretty much have the same parts unless you buy a cheapo PC with a really poor motherboard.

</thought>

Even looking at Dell's overpriced XPS line a Mac with the same setup is $210 dollars more. Again, for some people the pros of a Mac over a Windows PC might be worth that premium, but you can't pretend that hardware wise Macs aren't a bit overpriced.

Also I can't see how you can sugest buying a Mac to play games on, sure there are alot of good games that have Mac releases, but if your replacing a gaming PC with a Mac eventually something is going to come out that you can't play and you'll have to deal with buyer's remorse. Again, this doesn't mean that the OP shouldn't get a Mac, I just felt the need to chime in a bit since this thread was a little one sided.

[kdb424]

How is Ubuntu's hardware support with the new aluminum Macs these days? I remember there being all sorts of problems with the wireless card, wireless keyboard, sound card and such. Has Hardy Heron improved the state of Ubuntu on the Mac? I am thinking about getting one, but I would totally remove OSX from the machine, so no access to Apple's drivers. Any thoughts?

So far, only a few drivers needed to be installed by hand. If I can do it, all Ubuntu users and most new users could do it too.

[MikeSz]

Now I'm not going to come in here and Mac bash; I don't really have anything against Macs but.... How can you say that modern Macs are going to last any longer then a modern PC? They pretty much have the same parts unless you buy a cheapo PC with a really poor motherboard.

</thought>

Even looking at Dell's overpriced XPS line a Mac with the same setup is $210 dollars more. Again, for some people the pros of a Mac over a Windows PC might be worth that premium, but you can't pretend that hardware wise Macs aren't a bit overpriced.

Also I can't see how you can sugest buying a Mac to play games on, sure there are alot of good games that have Mac releases, but if your replacing a gaming PC with a Mac eventually something is going to come out that you can't play and you'll have to deal with buyer's remorse. Again, this doesn't mean that the OP shouldn't get a Mac, I just felt the need to chime in a bit since this thread was a little one sided.


You've actually echoed a lot of my concerns here. I did look at the XPS gaming laptop, which was about £1100, then dismissed it as a silly idea considering I could buy a significantly better gaming PC for £500 less. However....

I dont want another bulky PC - I own a laptop at the moment and it works for me. So I like the look of the slim iMac even though I suppose its still a desktop.

On the second point, im not a mad gamer - simply put, I dont have the time to get serious about games, but I have missed them since I only had my laptop. I am a heavy internet user and I do a lot of programming (JavaScript and C++) and then all the other usual office stuff. At the moment, all my favourite games are out there on the Mac - Championship Manager, Quake 4, COD4 etc and they would do me just fine. I am bothered however as to how well these would play compared with a normal PC. Hope that helps a bit with identifying what im after.

[kdb424]

I have played some games on macs before. Believe me, they play better than in windows most of the time. If you have a true concern, I wouldn't doubt that the people at the apple store would install the agme for you on a machine that you were lookin at to test it out. (If they had the game there) They are there to make a sale.

[cyberdork33]

will the 256Mb ATI Radeon 2600 pro work with the native Call of duty 4 or Neverwinter nights? I know if it was a PC, you’d struggle with that kind of card, though I don’t have a clue about Macs so id rush out and buy one today if it will play those games to a good standard!
Same hardware gives same results, Mac or not.

From what you describe, there isn't anything that you *need* a Mac for over a PC. You want games, and you want Ubuntu. For those two items, a PC would likely be a better option. Custom builds allow for linux compatibility, and making sure you have the graphics horsepower to run the games you want.

I have one of the older iMacs and it runs CivIV and Halo OK, but that's about all I would give it. I prefer consoles for games... The games that have been ported to Mac usually state the specs in the type of Mac it needs... a bit differently than on a PC. The games that you mention will probably run fine on a new iMac. Again, the same hardware will give pretty much the same results, Mac or not.

Apple Cinema displays are VERY nice though. (which is really what is in the iMac).

Even looking at Dell's overpriced XPS line a Mac with the same setup is $210 dollars more. Again, for some people the pros of a Mac over a Windows PC might be worth that premium, but you can't pretend that hardware wise Macs aren't a bit overpriced. $210 is small in comparison to the overall price. That could be a weeks' fluctuation in the price of RAM. I do tend to agree on the Macbook Pros though. Some of the other machines are a much closer match (such as the iMac).

Also I can't see how you can sugest buying a Mac to play games on, sure there are alot of good games that have Mac releases, but if your replacing a gaming PC with a Mac eventually something is going to come out that you can't play and you'll have to deal with buyer's remorse. Again, this doesn't mean that the OP shouldn't get a Mac, I just felt the need to chime in a bit since this thread was a little one sided.Agree. Buying a Mac to game on is a bit silly sounding. (so is buying a Mac just to run linux IMHO).

I think that you would be happy with that iMac, but you could probably save some money and some (linux) setup time by going with a PC.

[stchman]

I have played some games on macs before. Believe me, they play better than in windows most of the time. If you have a true concern, I wouldn't doubt that the people at the apple store would install the agme for you on a machine that you were lookin at to test it out. (If they had the game there) They are there to make a sale.
So you are saying that Windows games play better on OS X? I somehow find that difficult to believe.

The only reason I keep XP or Vista around is for gaming.

If one wants to run Ubuntu on a laptop then there are laptops that can run Ubuntu for a much better price than a Mac.

I have nothing against Macs, just that they are really overpriced. Since Macs now use the SAME hardware as their PC counterparts they cannot say they have better hardware.

As far as a Mac laptop lasting FAR longer than other laptops that is a complete fallacy. I have a seen many a laptop other than Mac be over 5 years old and still work. If you take care of a computer it will take care of you.

[rossjman1]

It seems like the OP is getting a mac for the sake of getting a mac. If you are replacing a gaming machine you should get a pc. If you want to get a computer and mostly use Linux, getting a Mac is a waste of money. I say this because the hardware is not worth the price of a Mac, it's the inflated price of the OS.
It seems like everything you want to do will be easier and better (gaming) in Windows on a PC. You said something about getting a computer that looks nice physically and you don't want a big computer. Well, Dell has plenty of compact towers as does HP.

[kdb424]

stchman: OS X had more efficent code (UNIX) than windows (MS-DOS) Ths causes mac games to run better than there windows counterparts.

rossman: The huge advantage of macs is the able to have mac, legaly, ublike PC's. I mean they are beautiful, have things like backlight keyboards, amazing cases, durrability, and are more likely to last longer than PC's, not to say that a PC can't last long, but it is harder to keep windows running that long, and upgrading the hardware, where macs are usually overpowered from the start, so they last for ever, as in that it doesn't need updated.

I hope that answeres any remaining questions that you have about Mac vs. PC. I am not saying that I don't like PC's, but as my main computer, I would perfer Macs, or at least have one or two laying around.

[Mattaus]

Its probably been said already (I havnt read through all the responses honestly) but a PC will cost you a shed load less than a MAC for the same hardware. Your paying for looks.

I own a PC desktop for gaming (I built myself) and a MAcbook Pro for Ubuntu and my video and picture editing (as I can take it anywhere when my creatice streak fires up)

My biggest tip though? You may find yourself in my situation where your seriously considering giving Ubuntu the flick because Mac OS X has all the prettiness without the work load to get it running lol!

[kdb424]

My biggest tip though? You may find yourself in my situation where your seriously considering giving Ubuntu the flick because Mac OS X has all the prettiness without the work load to get it running lol!

That was what happened to me. Mac is amazing. I think that if you buy a Mac, you might never want to go back. I do think that this was the best tip yet. lol

[MikeSz]

Thanks for all the responss - they are very much appreciated. I dont think ive ever been so undecided about a computer purchase (ive always built my own PCs in the past).

I dont really want to ignite a debate on Macs Vs PCs, it could go on forever and would probably just be a waste of cyberspace :)

My situation then boils down to this....

I dont think I want a Mac for the sake of owning a Mac, I think it would be better to say that I want a computer that does a little of everything that is to say :

1) A stable work-horse that will let me do all my work (programming, internet - im a heavy internet user, multimedia options - like connecting up my guitar)
2) Will allow me to play *some* games - im not a huge gamer and I dont want an out-right gaming machine - I certainly dont want a Mac to be predominantly a gaming platform or to replace my gaming PC, though I would like the odd few hours of senseless sprite obliteration :)
3) Provides the minimum amount of clutter.

I did have a play round with a few iMac's in the Apple store yesterday and was really impressed with the sheer ease and capacity of the systems, so I am leaning towards them now, and there look to be some bargains to be had on the Mac refurb site (probably the same price as what I could build one for, although I accept that I would probably get a better spec from a home build, whilst sacrificing the aesthetics) - for instance, there was a 20" model (2.4GHz system) which was up for £750. That seems to cut out some of the issues I had with these systems being over-priced.

Plus I would almost certainly want to keep Ubuntu on a Dual boot. I like the freedom and everything else that comes with Ubuntu.

Does all that make sense or do I look to be buying a 'pretty but pointless' system?

[cyberdork33]

stchman: OS X had more efficent code (UNIX) than windows (MS-DOS) Ths causes mac games to run better than there windows counterparts. This is a pretty weak argument. Most games are ported from windows... meaning that they are designed to run efficiently on Windows, not UNIX. This would imply they are likely to run worse... I am not saying that they do, just building a counter-argument. I don't think that either system is "better" or "worse" from this standpoint.

rossman: The huge advantage of macs is the able to have mac, legaly, ublike PC's. I mean they are beautiful, have things like backlight keyboards, amazing cases, durrability, and are more likely to last longer than PC's, not to say that a PC can't last long, but it is harder to keep windows running that long, and upgrading the hardware, where macs are usually overpowered from the start, so they last for ever, as in that it doesn't need updated. You can buy/build a PC with pretty much the same exact hardware that is in a Mac. They do have some nifty 'high-end' features such as the sudden-motion sensor, the keyboard backlight, and the ambient light sensor. Macs do tend to last longer in the sense that OS X is usually designed to run on the newest, as well as quite old, Macs. For this reason, a much older Mac is still quite capable of running the very latest Mac OS. This is another benefit of Apple only having to develop for a limited set of hardware.

I dont think I want a Mac for the sake of owning a Mac, I think it would be better to say that I want a computer that does a little of everythin...

1) A stable work-horse that will let me do all my work (programming, internet - im a heavy internet user, multimedia options - like connecting up my guitar)
2) Will allow me to play *some* games - im not a huge gamer and I dont want an out-right gaming machine - I certainly dont want a Mac to be predominantly a gaming platform or to replace my gaming PC, though I would like the odd few hours of senseless sprite obliteration :)
3) Provides the minimum amount of clutter.

I bought my iMac much for the same reasons. I wanted a machine that I could throw Windows, OS X, or Linux on. I wanted a 'desktop' with a compact design so I could save some space around my desk. I wanted to use OSX (since I had not really been exposed to it before). That said, go for it!

[MikeSz]

Well, its done! got myself a 2.66GHz core duo system with 2mb ram and the 256 ATI graphics 20" iMac from the re0furb site for just over £800. Ive looked at building my own PC but decided that this was just as good a deal, and what im losing on spec, im gaining on software bundle plus cosmetics :)

[cyberdork33]

Well, its done! got myself a 2.66GHz core duo system with 2mb ram...
2mb, that's it ? :)

[MikeSz]

2mb, that's it ? :)

Yep - 2Gb even!! :) (showing my age there....)

[xArv3nx]

Yep - 2Gb even!! :) (showing my age there....)
Enjoy your iMac, man.

Quick tip #1: Run all your games in Boot Camp. It'll save you a lot of problems.

[MikeSz]

Yeah thanks for that! I would imagine il need some help with it as ive never used a mac before - so ive certainly never used bootcamp!

[MikeSz]

Well - got my imac this morning and I have to say its very nice indeed! Can I ask a couple of questions?

First of all, where's the hash key?? I cant use IRC without it!
Secondly, how do you setup Ubuntu to dual boot on it? I have an Ubuntu live CD, I assume I just go for the i386 and not the 64bit one.

Sorry if these are basic questions, I do like this mac but I think it will take me a while to get used to it!!!

[cyberdork33]

Well - got my imac this morning and I have to say its very nice indeed! Can I ask a couple of questions?

First of all, where's the hash key?? I cant use IRC without it!

Just a point of clarification for all...
# <- This is a hash mark. It is also known as a pound-sign in the US, not to be confused with the British monetary unit.

On the US version of the keyboard, it is SHIFT+3, but I think it is ALT+3 on the UK variant...

Secondly, how do you setup Ubuntu to dual boot on it? I have an Ubuntu live CD, I assume I just go for the i386 and not the 64bit one.
You can use i386 or AMD64. Whichever you like. I run 64bit on my iMac.

You should probably start a new thread since this is getting off-topic, but You can use the bootcamp assitant to resize your OSX partition and then install Ubuntu in place of the windows partition it creates. You should decide upfront if you want to triple boot though, as I would make sure to create all the partitions I need off the back.

[felixdzerzhinsky]

Don't.

I have an iMac 24 inch. As soon as it was out of warranty it borked. The cost of the DVD-RW is astronomical. You are better buying a PC box. Spend your money on a good monitor.

At least it won't cost a fortune when things go wrong.

[kdb424]

Go for 64 bit. You have a 64 bit system. lmao.

[cyberdork33]

Go for 64 bit. You have a 64 bit system. lmao.
There is a thread with the advantages / disadvantages of both.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=765428

In the end, you will probably not notice the difference either way.

[MikeSz]

Many thanks to everyone for their help - its much appreciated