Just bought Macbook Pro. Few gripes.

[Sweet Spot]

Calling all Mac people:

My wife and I bought a Macbook Pro (baseline model) last week after some thought went into it. I've been MS free for about 2 1/2 years, using Ubuntu Linux, which I absolutely adore. My wife was still using her cruddy 10 year old Compaq Presario Laptop (which I guess isn't so bad if it lasted this long and isn't totally dead by now eh ?) that I installed XP Pro on last year, after running ME on it for all that time.

A friend of hers also just gave us her older Dell Inspiron Laptop (5 years old I think) which I just installed both Linux Mint and Ubuntu Gutsy on, and chose to stick with Gutsy, and it's working great. In fact, I'm on it right now. For one thing, I don't want to mess with the Mac too much right away, because I want to learn more about it before getting too frustrated with a couple of things I've already experienced, despite being force fed that whole "mac's are easier" propoganda from friends and commercials etc.. Secondly, I need a surge protector, and won't hook up the Airport Express or Macbook without one. Sure, I can use battery power, but I still have the dell for all my needs.

On to my gripes. They'll likely seem like non issues for you Mac guys/gals, and I've also taken into consideration that I'll be told that because I've formed habits using Windows or Linux, that it's naturally going to take a bit to adjust to how things work on the Mac side. That said, there's a few things I can't seem to get past, which are bugging me, because I really want to like this computer. While I bought the MB Pro for my wife mainly, I of course had alterior motives, seeing as how I'm a bit of a shutter bug as well as a musician. So I'll be using aperature as well as some software for mixing, editing and creating music, and also will be doing a bunch of needle drops with my vinyl. :)

Let me try and keep this simple.

A. Deleting items. What ever happened to the easy ol' right click and delete ? Say I've got a document sitting in the stack tray on the dock, and I want it gone. What I've learned thus far, is that I have to drag it to the trash, which in turn actually opens the trash folder, and then I have to hit the empty trash button. Well, I dont' have to, but either way, I'll have to close that trash window. Seems to be an awful long process just to trash something, no ? Isn't there a more simple approach to deleting objects than this ? It was especially painful to see that there seemed to be no right click functionality for those items sitting in the stacks column. At least, nothing useful. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I didn't see anything about this in switch 101 on the Apple site.

B. In both Linux and Windows, switching to different apps which are open, is a matter of alt+tab and once those keys are released on the given apps icon, that window automatically opens in front of you, whether or not it was already on the desktop. To me, this seems like the most logical thing one would want to have happen in this situation. And here is where OSX really confuses and its logic alludes me (to say the least) in more than one way. So let's say I have Safari, iTunes and text editor open at the same time. Now, let's say that I decide to minimize two out of the three which I'm not using at the time being because I like my screen real estate.

I now decide to switch apps, and cmd+tab to the next app I want open, except that when I reach the icon of the app I want, all that happens is I see the name of the app listed at the top, on the menu bar. Excuse me for saying this but, I can't think of anything less efficient and time consuming than this, just to open the window of the app I was using 3 minutes ago. So now I have to actually drag the mouse down to the icon sitting in the dock, which to me seems (and please correct me where I'm wrong) utterly redundant because as I saw it and did it.. All I'd have to do in the first place is go down there and hit that icon without touching cmd+tab and I'd have my window back up with my previously running app, correct ?

c. It also confuses me that I can cmd/tab and then hit apple/Q which will then quit that applications window, yet not hit another combination and in turn actually open the window instead. And to top it all off, the biggest bit of confusion which has me totally perplexed, is trying to find an answer for why in the world the red "x" even exists, if it doesn't actually quit or close the program/window you were working with ? I mean yeah, it closes it, but it's not really closed. Rather, it's minimized, which is what I thought the yellow x was for ?! Seriously, this is a major redundancy, and need not exist as a function IMO. I can't imagine that I'm the only person on earth who has made this observation, right ?

I also ran into another quirk which had me asking myself out loud, "HU?" Why is it that when I open a program and choose to look at its options in the menu bar, and then take the mouse pointer off of it, the app will just disappear into the background rather than stay as the main app/window that I was working with ? This only makes me cmd/tab to it again for no good reason. I had more to ask, but I'll never post this thing if I continue to compile a list.

Doug

[LaRoza]

I also ran into another quirk which had me asking myself out loud, "HU?" Why is it that when I open a program and choose to look at its options in the menu bar, and then take the mouse pointer off of it, the app will just disappear into the background rather than stay as the main app/window that I was working with ? This only makes me cmd/tab to it again for no good reason. I had more to ask, but I'll never post this thing if I continue to compile a list.


Not exactly sure what you are describing, but focus following the cursor is the Unix way for the most part. I wouldn't have it any other way (Windows infuriates me not having this option)

[stream303]

You can rest easy knowing that if you want, you can be OSX-free or dual-boot to Ubuntu on that Macbook if you like. Should you decide to do so, there is great support for both Intel and PPC boxes in the Apple forum.

[LMP900]

Mac OS X uses spring-loaded folders. When you drag an item to the trash, the Trash window shouldn't open unless you hold your cursor over the icon for too long. Simply dragging items into the Trash works just as it does in Ubuntu and Windows.

If you want a keyboard shortcut to delete an item, highlight it and hit Command+Delete.

I also suggest visiting this website: http://www.macosxhints.com/

There are plenty of useful hints to make life easier using OS X. :)

[Sweet Spot]

Not exactly sure what you are describing, but focus following the cursor is the Unix way for the most part. I wouldn't have it any other way (Windows infuriates me not having this option)

I'll try and explain this a bit more clearly (if I can, it's hard to describe). Say you open a program such as say... text editor. Now you can see the name of the open app "Text Editor" on the top as part of the menu function. Now let's say I direct my mouse over to some of the menu items for that program just to look through what the options are.

As soon as the mouse cursor leaves any of the menu options and goes back on to the empty desktop again, somehow, the "Text Editor" menu disappears and goes back to "Finder". I don't even know what the hell Finder does, let alone understand why it's there in the first place or why the attention diverted to it, rather than having Text Editor always be at the forefront of the menu until I open and choose another application to be up front.

Hope that explains it some.

You can rest easy knowing that if you want, you can be OSX-free or dual-boot to Ubuntu on that Macbook if you like. Should you decide to do so, there is great support for both Intel and PPC boxes in the Apple forum.

No offense to either you, me or the Canonical team but.. .there's no way that I'd feel comfortable doing that on something I just spent $2500 on. (including apple care, .mac account, Airport Express) Besides, it would contradict why I bought it in the first place. (though it's a gift to my wife, I plan on using it for photo editing and doing audio projects which there's no way I'd be able to do in Ubuntu) Besides, I'm in the midst of purchasing stuff from Newegg in order to build an Ubuntu box for myself. ;)

Mac OS X uses spring-loaded folders. When you drag an item to the trash, the Trash window shouldn't open unless you hold your cursor over the icon for too long. Simply dragging items into the Trash works just as it does in Ubuntu and Windows.

If you want a keyboard shortcut to delete an item, highlight it and hit Command+Delete.

I also suggest visiting this website: http://www.macosxhints.com/

There are plenty of useful hints to make life easier using OS X. :)

Cool. Thanks for that, I'll certainly be doing lots of reading up, and the more links, the better. Do you know straight off the bat how to handle my "alt+tab" niggle ? I think that's the worst perpetrator by far, right along side red x'ing buttons which you'd think would close a program, but don't, and still having to click the dock icon redundantly, to open a window again. Silliness I say.

doug

[stream303]

No offense to either you, me or the Canonical team but.. .there's no way that I'd feel comfortable doing that on something I just spent $2500 on.

No offense taken. It's just a backup-option. :)

[LMP900]

Cool. Thanks for that, I'll certainly be doing lots of reading up, and the more links, the better. Do you know straight off the bat how to handle my "alt+tab" niggle ? I think that's the worst perpetrator by far, right along side red x'ing buttons which you'd think would close a program, but don't, and still having to click the dock icon redundantly, to open a window again. Silliness I say.

doug

I don't have a solution for the Command+Tab issue since I never use that feature. (Although must I agree with you, it's a bit annoying now that I've tried it!)

As for closing a window: Apple seems to differentiate between "close" and "quit." Basically, you close a window and you quit an application. This is when keyboard shortcuts really come in handy: Command+W to close and Command+Q to quit.

This might sound strange at first but I actually find it useful. For example, when I am using Transmission for torrents, I can close the window but still have the application running in the dock (which conveniently shows the download/upload rates).

[Sweet Spot]

No offense taken. It's just a backup-option. :)

S'all good. I actually can't wait until I get my new Ubuntu Box put together ! I'm sure I'll appreciate working with programs like Aperture 2, Logic Pro, Garage Band etc on the Mac, but to be honest, I'll appreciate the simplicity and control I'll have over everything else which Linux/Ubuntu has been offering me for the past 2+ years even more !


I don't have a solution for the Command+Tab issue since I never use that feature. (Although must I agree with you, it's a bit annoying now that I've tried it!)

As for closing a window: Apple seems to differentiate between "close" and "quit." Basically, you close a window and you quit an application. This is when keyboard shortcuts really come in handy: Command+W to close and Command+Q to quit.

This might sound strange at first but I actually find it useful. For example, when I am using Transmission for torrents, I can close the window but still have the application running in the dock (which conveniently shows the download/upload rates).

Interestingly enough, I found an app while reading June's issue of Mac Life "30 Best Mac Apps you've never heard of" called "Witch" which is located at manytricks.com (http://ubuntuforums.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5280298) that seems to take care of the issue, as well as adds some neat functionality to the alt+tab function. Check it out, looks promising !

As for closing an window and closing an app, I read you loud and clear. However, I think this was kind of poor designing on the OS engineers part because:

While I can see the benefit of keeping an application open in order to get better performance speeds when opening another widow, as opposed to re opening an application entirely (which would take what, another 4 whole seconds ? sheesh life is tough) , I fail to see the use in having an open application (when minimized) be able to maximize from both the original dock icon (which will have a mark underneath it) as well as on the right side of the dock, which is the equivalent of a system tray. It's totally redundant, and IMO only seems to serve as a waste of dock space. It should just be that one either opens the minimized window from the dock icon, or from the menu bar on top, or even by cmd tabbing, or perhaps from expose if one likes a bit of flair. Maybe it's just me who thinks that.

Furthermore, I still don't see any sense in having both the yellow x and the red x, when they essentially perform the same function, which is to minimize a window, yet not necessarily quit the specific open task. Sometimes it does, and sometimes not, and it's very inconsistent. Oh well I guess I'll learn to deal. I just find it annoying and inefficient.

[x0as]

who thinks that.

Furthermore, I still don't see any sense in having both the yellow x and the red x, when they essentially perform the same function, which is to minimize a window, yet not necessarily quit the specific open task. Sometimes it does, and sometimes not, and it's very inconsistent. Oh well I guess I'll learn to deal. I just find it annoying and inefficient.

Yellow minimizes the window to the dock, red closes the window but doesn't ( normally ) quit the app.

[Sweet Spot]

Yellow minimizes the window to the dock, red closes the window but doesn't ( normally ) quit the app.

Yeah, exactly my point. It's not consistent.

[LMP900]

Moving from OS X to Ubuntu, I was actually frustrated that some apps only responded to Ctrl+W while others used Ctrl+Q. Also, "closing" rather than "quitting" lets me clean up my workspace while still running things in the background (e.g. no Firefox windows open while I'm downloading something).

Another frustrating thing in Ubuntu is that some apps you can minimize to the system tray (Opera, Firestarter, Picasa, Rhythmbox) to hide the windows from view on the desktop and taskbar. Others (Firefox and most other apps) you can only minimize to the taskbar. The OS X dock, doubling as a system tray and taskbar, addresses this issue for me.

I guess it's just a matter of preference since we all use different methods to be productive. I use keyboard-shortcuts quite a bit so that probably explains my preference.

Also, thanks for the Witch link, I'll definitely check it out (as well as the other apps mentioned in the Mac Life article). :)

[r76]

Yellow minimizes the window to the dock, red closes the window but doesn't ( normally ) quit the app.

In Opera, the red X does even more than close the app, it kills it completely, i.e. it doesn't remember the tabs you had open when you restart it - I have got in trouble for this too many times :(

[LaRoza]

In Opera, the red X does even more than close the app, it kills it completely, i.e. it doesn't remember the tabs you had open when you restart it - I have got in trouble for this too many times :(

You can set that Tools->Preferences and the first tab under "startup".

[Foster Grant]

I'll try and explain this a bit more clearly (if I can, it's hard to describe). Say you open a program such as say... text editor. Now you can see the name of the open app "Text Editor" on the top as part of the menu function. Now let's say I direct my mouse over to some of the menu items for that program just to look through what the options are.

As soon as the mouse cursor leaves any of the menu options and goes back on to the empty desktop again, somehow, the "Text Editor" menu disappears and goes back to "Finder". I don't even know what the hell Finder does, let alone understand why it's there in the first place or why the attention diverted to it, rather than having Text Editor always be at the forefront of the menu until I open and choose another application to be up front.

Finder is the Mac application that inspired Program Manager, Windows Explorer and OS/2 Workplace Shell. It's responsible for hardware and software resource management, including launching applications, directing print jobs to the printer driver, connecting to network volumes and so forth.

Just wondering ... did you click the desktop? Because that would switch you back to the Finder, as would inadvertently selecting Finder on the applications menu.

[shawnansasio]

instead of command+tab use F9 or Fn+F9

[Trav1s]

Long time windoze user that switched to OSX 3 years ago and learning ubuntu as an alt for the PC's I have inherited.... My perspective is different.

Calling all Mac people:

Let me try and keep this simple.

A. Deleting items. What ever happened to the easy ol' right click and delete ? Say I've got a document sitting in the stack tray on the dock, and I want it gone. What I've learned thus far, is that I have to drag it to the trash, which in turn actually opens the trash folder, and then I have to hit the empty trash button. Well, I dont' have to, but either way, I'll have to close that trash window. Seems to be an awful long process just to trash something, no ? Isn't there a more simple approach to deleting objects than this ? It was especially painful to see that there seemed to be no right click functionality for those items sitting in the stacks column. At least, nothing useful. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I didn't see anything about this in switch 101 on the Apple site.

ctrl-click is the same a "right-click" which opens the menu and moves the object directly to the trash w/out opening "trash" in the finder. Also, any generic 3-button mouse will work on the MBP but (IMO) the BT wireless mouse is worth the money.


B. In both Linux and Windows, switching to different apps which are open, is a matter of alt+tab and once those keys are released on the given apps icon, that window automatically opens in front of you, whether or not it was already on the desktop. To me, this seems like the most logical thing one would want to have happen in this situation. And here is where OSX really confuses and its logic alludes me (to say the least) in more than one way. So let's say I have Safari, iTunes and text editor open at the same time. Now, let's say that I decide to minimize two out of the three which I'm not using at the time being because I like my screen real estate.

I now decide to switch apps, and cmd+tab to the next app I want open, except that when I reach the icon of the app I want, all that happens is I see the name of the app listed at the top, on the menu bar. Excuse me for saying this but, I can't think of anything less efficient and time consuming than this, just to open the window of the app I was using 3 minutes ago. So now I have to actually drag the mouse down to the icon sitting in the dock, which to me seems (and please correct me where I'm wrong) utterly redundant because as I saw it and did it.. All I'd have to do in the first place is go down there and hit that icon without touching cmd+tab and I'd have my window back up with my previously running app, correct ?

If you minimize the window, OSX parks it in the dock as you said. Have you considered using "Spaces" to manage open windows better? Just like Ubuntu... you can set apps to open in a specific window and used "cmd->' or "cmd-<" to switch back and forth. I know there is a keyboard SC to open up


c. It also confuses me that I can cmd/tab and then hit apple/Q which will then quit that applications window, yet not hit another combination and in turn actually open the window instead. And to top it all off, the biggest bit of confusion which has me totally perplexed, is trying to find an answer for why in the world the red "x" even exists, if it doesn't actually quit or close the program/window you were working with ? I mean yeah, it closes it, but it's not really closed. Rather, it's minimized, which is what I thought the yellow x was for ?! Seriously, this is a major redundancy, and need not exist as a function IMO. I can't imagine that I'm the only person on earth who has made this observation, right ?

Yes.. that is the way it is... just a quirk of X.


I also ran into another quirk which had me asking myself out loud, "HU?" Why is it that when I open a program and choose to look at its options in the menu bar, and then take the mouse pointer off of it, the app will just disappear into the background rather than stay as the main app/window that I was working with ? This only makes me cmd/tab to it again for no good reason. I had more to ask, but I'll never post this thing if I continue to compile a list.

Doug

Not sure on this one....

Travis

[Sweet Spot]

If you minimize the window, OSX parks it in the dock as you said. Have you considered using "Spaces" to manage open windows better? Just like Ubuntu... you can set apps to open in a specific window and used "cmd->' or "cmd-<" to switch back and forth. I know there is a keyboard SC to open up



Yes.. that is the way it is... just a quirk of X.



Not sure on this one....

Travis

Well, spaces is one thing, but for me an application best suited to a different way of app switching. It can come in handy, but not in the context which you're presenting it to me here. As for the last thing, Foster Grant had it right about hitting the desktop. But then, what else would you do with the mouse pointer ? It's a natural movement and the ONLY place the pointer can go to when its outside of the menu bar on top. So I think they should add an option where you are free to stay within the confines of which ever app is open, no matter where the pointer happens to be.