KDE 3 or 4?

[Tribulation]

I've been using Ubuntu with the GNOME environment for awhile and now I want to try KDE. I'm just going to use a Kubuntu Live CD for it, my question is which should I go with? KDE 3 or KDE 4? I've heard 4 is relatively new and I'd like one that I could get the best learning experience of KDE with.

[prestomation]

I've tried 4.0 and just recently the new 4.1 beta. It's really not there yet for everyday use unless you want bleeding edge or want to contribute to the project. I've had numerous crashes(I couldn't right click in dolphin without dolphin just dying). I have a full blown 8.04 install, so I have both versions of KDE, so I can just mix and match the applications, but I will probably just wait until 4 has matured a little more.

That said, there are definitely some things I like. What I like most is kickoff (the new menu), especially the search.
I know you can get it in 3, but I can't find amd64 packages for it.

If you're just trying out a live CD, get both :guitar:

[Unix_Slayer]

I'm using KDE4, and I see no major difference from Gnome or KDE3. KDE4 rocks.... I've had no crashes since I installed it. I had a lot of crashes in KDE3.

[Xiong Chiamiov]

I haven't actually been able to run KDE4 successfully yet; it always locks up shortly after logging in.

Which you should try depends a lot upon what you're looking for. If you want fancy widgets and pretty graphics, go for 4. If you want customization, go for 3. Just realize what you're getting into, and don't complain about the stability of 4 or how old-school something is in 3.

EDIT: And, of course, you can use both of them if you so wish. I know you're using the LiveCD, but you can install packages while running off a LiveCD (they just won't stick after reboot). If you're just looking to play around with KDE itself, and not all the apps that come with it, install the kde-core or kde4-core packages, which are considerably smaller.

[Tribulation]

I just got done playing around with KDE 3. I'll try KDE 4 later. I do like KDE's customization so far though it is more complicated than GNOME. I forgot to look for the option that allows me to mount and unmount my hard drive. Also when I went to mess with desktop effects it said I couldn't change it unless I had compiz installed, and when I tried to install the package it said it couldn't find it. One thing I really like about GNOME is the fact that I can make the panels completely clear. When I tried to do so in KDE it became transparent but didn't look anywhere near as good. I don't know if that's because I didn't install video card drivers and/or have compiz installed or what. Also, Dolphin crashed on me about three or four times for no apparent reason.

[Zorael]

KDE 4.1b1 is definitely a step in the right direction, and the most glaring bug that keeps me away from it is the split-second graphical corruption upon drawing new items. I suggest you try both and then decide, though my favor is still with KDE3 for the time being. See http://kubuntuforums.org for installation instructions for 4.1b1; you need to add a repository.

[Robux the great]

Hi

I have only used KDE 4 on openSUSE 11 RC1. It seemed ok to me but I still prefer gnome

Regards

Rob

[Zorael]

My opinion: KDE 3 > Xfce > Gnome = KDE 4.1b1.

KDE 4 seems *very* promising but it needs to mature. I expect 4.2 and onward releases will be made of win and awesome. But then again, opinion.

Judging KDE (3 and 4) on KDE 4.1b1 is a bit unfair, so make sure to try 'em all.

[SunnyRabbiera]

KDE3 for me, KDE4 lacks too much in its current state.

[Tribulation]

Well I messed around with KDE 4 last night. It's certainly pretty, I like it's look alot more than KDE 3, but it does lack some features that bugs me. I might try it again later as about fifteen minutes into playing with it it crashed. Also,how do I unmount things? In GNOME I right clicked and selected unmount. I'm doing the same thing in KDE with my My Book and it won't unmount. And while we're on the subject of mounting, how do I mount things such as my hard drive? I know how to do it in GNOME but not KDE.

[Unix_Slayer]

Well I messed around with KDE 4 last night. It's certainly pretty, I like it's look alot more than KDE 3, but it does lack some features that bugs me. I might try it again later as about fifteen minutes into playing with it it crashed.

Curious... what features are lacking?

[Xiong Chiamiov]

I just got done playing around with KDE 3. I'll try KDE 4 later. I do like KDE's customization so far though it is more complicated than GNOME. I forgot to look for the option that allows me to mount and unmount my hard drive. Also when I went to mess with desktop effects it said I couldn't change it unless I had compiz installed, and when I tried to install the package it said it couldn't find it. One thing I really like about GNOME is the fact that I can make the panels completely clear. When I tried to do so in KDE it became transparent but didn't look anywhere near as good. I don't know if that's because I didn't install video card drivers and/or have compiz installed or what. Also, Dolphin crashed on me about three or four times for no apparent reason.
When you talk about panel transparency, do you mean like this (http://picasaweb.google.com/xiong.chiamiov/ScreenshotsDesktop/photo#5203349987305155634)? If so, right-click panel -> configure panel -> appearance -> check "enable transparency" and click advanced -> put tint to min. It's the first thing I do on any KDE desktop I have to use; for some reason I can't stand having a colored panel at the bottom of my screen.

You don't need compiz installed for that, but if you do want compiz, the easiest way is to install the "desktop-effects-kde" package.

Dolphin is a fairly new replacement to Konqueror, and it still has a few (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dolphin/+bug/156002) (rather serious imo) bugs (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dolphin/+bug/152788) to work out. However, it's progressing along quite nicely, and is definitely lighter than Konqueror.

EDIT: O hai, 1k-th post!

[Unix_Slayer]

Dolphin is a fairly new replacement to Konqueror, and it still has a few (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dolphin/+bug/156002) (rather serious imo) bugs (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dolphin/+bug/152788) to work out. However, it's progressing along quite nicely, and is definitely lighter than Konqueror.

EDIT: O hai, 1k-th post!

This is the first, and only crash I got from Dolphin:
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[Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled]
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[KCrash handler]
#6 0x00000019 in ?? ()
#7 0xb7aefdf6 in KAbstractWidgetJobTracker::slotStop ()
from /usr/lib/kde4/lib/libkdeui.so.5
#8 0xb7af0fbc in KWidgetJobTracker::Private::ProgressWidget::_k_sto p ()
from /usr/lib/kde4/lib/libkdeui.so.5
#9 0xb7af114f in KWidgetJobTracker::Private::ProgressWidget::qt_met acall ()
from /usr/lib/kde4/lib/libkdeui.so.5
#10 0xb7f1bcf4 in QMetaObject::activate () from /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4
#11 0xb7f1c050 in QMetaObject::activate () from /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4
#12 0xb7520501 in QAbstractButton::clicked () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#13 0xb72e9c29 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#14 0xb72eb400 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#15 0xb72eb63b in QAbstractButton::mouseReleaseEvent ()
from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#16 0xb703afbd in QWidget::event () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#17 0xb72ea6ff in QAbstractButton::event () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#18 0xb737d692 in QPushButton::event () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#19 0xb6ff128d in QApplicationPrivate::notify_helper ()
from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#20 0xb6ff54f1 in QApplication::notify () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#21 0xb7afdce3 in KApplication::notify () from /usr/lib/kde4/lib/libkdeui.so.5
#22 0xb7f08c1b in QCoreApplication::notifyInternal ()
from /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4
#23 0xb704db4a in ?? () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#24 0xb704d197 in QApplication::x11ProcessEvent () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#25 0xb7072684 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#26 0xb6ab9bf8 in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0
#27 0xb6abce5e in ?? () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0
#28 0xb6abd3ac in g_main_context_iteration () from /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0
#29 0xb7f2cf82 in QEventDispatcherGlib::processEvents ()
from /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4
#30 0xb7072475 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#31 0xb7f07fb2 in QEventLoop::processEvents () from /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4
#32 0xb7f080bc in QEventLoop::exec () from /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4
#33 0xb7f0a88a in QCoreApplication::exec () from /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4
#34 0xb6ff06e7 in QApplication::exec () from /usr/lib/libQtGui.so.4
#35 0x08079839 in ?? ()
#36 0xb6b96450 in __libc_start_main () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6
#37 0x0805d451 in _start ()
#0 0xb7f9d410 in __kernel_vsyscall ()


I've had one dolphin crash when I installed KDE4 back in mid May. It had to do with Google widgets. But I've gotten two Plasma-Kcrashes after it. Nothing since May 30th. And I've been doing a heck of a lot of coding, and testing my own binaries.

[Tribulation]

I installed KDE 3.5 on Ubuntu and have played with it a bit. Dolphin crashed once one me but I had Adepts running at the same time by mistake. I have had no problems since then. And yes Xiong Chiamiov, that is what I was talking about. I knew how to do it, it just didn't look that good when using a Live CD. I tried it out today and it looks great. The features I find lacking are some customization features. That or I don't know where to find them, I didn't have alot of time to look around before the whole damn thing crashed.

[cardinals_fan]

I don't recommend KDE 4. My test of it was very buggy and I didn't see much improvement. KDE 3.5 is awesome.

Regardless of which you try, my experiences with Kubuntu have never been anything but horrendous. Try out SLAX for KDE 3.5 or the new OpenSUSE (when released) for KDE 4. Sidux is good too.

[Tribulation]

Why was it horrendous? For some reason I'm liking GNOME (in Ubuntu anyway) better, even though I like KDE's customization better. By all accounts I should like it better than I do. GNOME is cool and all but you can tweak your system much more in KDE.

[cardinals_fan]

Why was it horrendous? For some reason I'm liking GNOME (in Ubuntu anyway) better, even though I like KDE's customization better. By all accounts I should like it better than I do. GNOME is cool and all but you can tweak your system much more in KDE.
You misunderstand me. I MUCH prefer KDE to GNOME - the problem is Kubuntu. It's very slow and doesn't have the clean responsiveness that I associate with KDE. That's why I recommend SLAX or Sidux when it comes to KDE.

[Ptero-4]

For me. KDE3 would be it. KDE4 is like gnome (only the essential features), but designed to look like windoze.

[Unix_Slayer]

You misunderstand me. I MUCH prefer KDE to GNOME - the problem is Kubuntu. It's very slow and doesn't have the clean responsiveness that I associate with KDE. That's why I recommend SLAX or Sidux when it comes to KDE.

Runs perfectly fine, and fast on my system.

[maniacmusician]

This is the first, and only crash I got from Dolphin:

*snip*

I've had one dolphin crash when I installed KDE4 back in mid May. It had to do with Google widgets. But I've gotten two Plasma-Kcrashes after it. Nothing since May 30th. And I've been doing a heck of a lot of coding, and testing my own binaries.

I believe they're talking about the dolphin that's shipped with the KDE3 version of Kubuntu. It's actually called d3lphin, and it's basically the KDE3 dolphin with a bunch of the features from the KDE4 dolphin hacked into it. As such, it's not nearly as stable as the version of Dolphin you're using.

[cardinals_fan]

Runs perfectly fine, and fast on my system.
Close everything but a terminal and enter 'free'. How much RAM are you using?

[samwyse]

I'll wait at least until it has non slow submenus. I wonder how long 3.5 will be available.

[karellen]

KDE 3 for me. I've played a little with KDE 4 has still a long way to go

[Unix_Slayer]

Close everything but a terminal and enter 'free'. How much RAM are you using?


total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 8192 1144 7048 0 148 447
-/+ buffers/cache: 548 2483
Swap: 13641 0 13641

[cardinals_fan]

total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 8192 1144 7048 0 148 447
-/+ buffers/cache: 548 2483
Swap: 13641 0 13641
That's with just the desktop?!?! 548 megabytes of RAM is a LOT in my book.

A blank KDE 3.5 desktop on my box uses 118 megabytes.

[GeneralZod]

That's with just the desktop?!?! 548 megabytes of RAM is a LOT in my book.

A blank KDE 3.5 desktop on my box uses 118 megabytes.

There's probably some kind of mistake there; here's my analysis:

- Baseline: KDM3 login screen (gives a good-ish approximation of how much RAM the non-KDE4 stuff takes up) :


total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 249 222 27 0 15 146
-/+ buffers/cache: 59 189
Swap: 721 0 721


- KDE4 (trunk/ from ~ 2 weeks ago) + default applets (folderview on the desktop, kickoff, system tray, clock) + klipper + konsole etc :


total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 249 245 4 0 5 80
-/+ buffers/cache: 159 90
Swap: 721 35 686


So much, much less than Unix_Slayer's figures, but much, much more than it should be (I did a similar benchmark towards the end of last year, and the "blank KDE4 desktop + kicker + konsole etc" took up just 76MB in the highlighted column, with a baseline of 30 or 40MB), so I'm guessing there's some rather large memory usage regression there. One candidate is knotify, which is taking up a mind-boggling 37MB(!) RES (12MB SHR) - this is probably the result of a bug in xine that apparently allocates all of the buffers and stuff required for video playback, even if it's only playing audio.

So lots of optimisation work required across the board, there.