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View Full Version : [ubuntu] Via beta drivers making me insane!



macroshaft
June 4th, 2008, 01:55 PM
I was debating lack of 'simple' graphics support in the Intrepid development forums when someone added a post about new beta drivers for the Via chrome9 cards. I thought I'd give it a go and see if my laptop could finally join the 21st century.

The drivers are here http://linux.via.com.tw/ and the original thread here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=812313&page=2

The drivers installed fine and I restarted X, the screen went plain white and then faded to black in much the same way an LCD does when you press your thumb into it hard.

One member posted a solution, stating that a file contains all the settings xorg.conf may need and they just needed uncommenting in xorg or copying over. I've had a play and my screen looks lovely, as long as you don't mind 800x600! On bootup it states that it has loaded in low graphics mode as the displays are not configured.

I wondered if anyone could spot any obvious problems with the mess that used to be my xorg.conf.


# xorg.conf (X.Org X Window System server configuration file)
#
# This file was generated by failsafeDexconf, using
# values from the debconf database and some overrides to use vesa mode.
#
# You should use dexconf or another such tool for creating a "real" xorg.conf
# For example:
# sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg
Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Generic Keyboard"
Driver "kbd"
Option "XkbRules" "xorg"
Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
Option "XkbLayout" "uk"
Option "XkbOptions" "gb"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Configured Mouse"
Driver "mouse"
EndSection


Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Synaptics Touchpad"
Driver "synaptics"
Option "SendCoreEvents" "true"
Option "Device" "/dev/psaux"
Option "Protocol" "auto-dev"
Option "HorizEdgeScroll" "0"
EndSection
Section "Monitor"
Identifier "Monitor"
#Refresh Rate 60Hz
#ModeLine "720x480" 26.7 720 736 808 896 480 481 484 497
#ModeLine "720x576" 32.7 720 744 816 912 576 577 580 597
#ModeLine "800x480" 29.58 800 816 896 992 480 481 484 497
#ModeLine "848x480" 31.5 848 864 952 1056 480 481 484 497
#ModeLine "856x480" 31.7 856 872 960 1064 480 481 484 497
#ModeLine "960x600" 45.98 960 1000 1096 1232 600 601 604 622 -HSync +Vsync
#ModeLine "1000x600" 48.07 1000 1040 1144 1288 600 601 604 622 -HSync +Vsync
#ModeLine "1024x512" 41.3 1024 1056 1160 1296 512 513 516 531
#ModeLine "1088x612" 52.95 1088 1128 1240 1392 612 613 616 634 -HSync +Vsync
#ModeLine "1152x720" 67.32 1152 1208 1328 1504 720 721 724 746 -HSync +Vsync
#ModeLine "1200x720" 70.18 1200 1256 1384 1568 720 721 724 746 -HSync +Vsync
#ModeLine "1280x600" 61.50 1280 1336 1464 1648 600 601 604 622 -HSync +Vsync
#ModeLine "1280x720" 74.6 1280 1341 1474 1688 720 721 724 746
#ModeLine "1280x768" 80.1 1280 1344 1480 1680 768 769 772 795
#ModeLine "1360x768" 85.50 1360 1392 1712 1744 768 783 791 807 +HSync +Vsync
#ModeLine "1366x768" 85.86 1366 1440 1584 1800 768 769 772 795 -HSync +Vsync
ModeLine "1440x900" 106.47 1440 1520 1672 1904 900 901 904 932 -HSync +Vsync
#ModeLine "1440x1050" 126.2 1440 1536 1688 1936 1050 1051 1054 1087
#ModeLine "1600x900" 119.00 1600 1696 1864 2128 900 901 904 932 -HSync +Vsync
#ModeLine "1600x1024" 136.36 1600 1704 1872 2144 1024 1025 1028 1060 -HSync +Vsync
#ModeLine "1792x1344" 202.97 1792 1920 2112 2432 1344 1345 1348 1391 -HSync +Vsync
#ModeLine "1856x1392" 218.57 1856 1992 2192 2528 1392 1393 1396 1441 -HSync +Vsync
#ModeLine "1920x1080" 172.9 1920 2043 2249 2578 1080 1081 1084 1118
#ModeLine "2048x1536" 266.95 2048 2200 2424 2800 1536 1537 1540 1589 -HSync +Vsync
#Refresh Rate 75Hz
ModeLine "720x480" 34.9 720 752 824 928 480 481 484 502
ModeLine "720x576" 42.6 720 760 832 944 576 577 580 602
ModeLine "848x480" 41.0 848 880 968 1088 480 481 484 502
ModeLine "856x480" 41.3 856 888 976 1096 480 481 484 502
ModeLine "1024x512" 53.3 1024 1072 1176 1328 512 513 516 535
ModeLine "1280x768" 103.0 1280 1360 1496 1712 768 769 772 802
ModeLine "1440x1050" 160.0 1440 1536 1696 1952 1050 1051 1054 1096
#Refresh Rate 85Hz
ModeLine "1280x768" 118.5 1280 1368 1504 1728 768 769 772 807
ModeLine "1440x1050" 184.5 1440 1544 1704 1968 1050 1051 1054 1103
ModeLine "848x480" 47.4 848 888 976 1104 480 481 484 505
EndSection

Section "Device"
Driver "via"
VendorName "VIA Tech"
BoardName "via"
#Option "NoAccel"
#Option "HWCursor"
#Option "SWCursor"
#Option "ShadowFB"
##Option "UseBIOS"
#Option "VideoRAM" "65536"
#Option "VideoRAM1" "16384"
#Option "TwoLCD"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "CRT,TV"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "TV,CRT"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "CRT,CRT2"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "CRT2,CRT"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "CRT,LCD"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "LCD,CRT"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "LCD,LCD2"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "LCD2,LCD"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "TV,LCD"
Option "ActiveDevice" "LCD,TV"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "CRT,DFP"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "CRT,DVI"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "DFP,CRT"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "DVI,CRT"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "DFP,TV"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "DVI,TV"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "TV,DFP"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "CRT"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "LCD"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "TV"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "DFP"
#Option "ActiveDevice" "DVI"
#Option "DisplayHardwareLayout" "LCD ONLY"
#Option "DisplayHardwareLayout" "DVI ONLY"
#Option "DisplayHardwareLayout" "LCD+LCD2"
#Option "DisplayHardwareLayout" "LCD+DVI"
#Option "DisplayHardwareLayout" "LCD+ExternalLCD2"
#Option "DisplayHardwareLayout" "TV+ExternalTV2"
#Option "VideoOnDevice" "CRT" #could be TV,DVI,LCD,CRT
#Option "Simultaneous"
#Option "BusWidth" "12Bit"
#Option "BusWidth" "24Bit"
#Option "Rotate" "CW"
#Option "Rotate" "CCW"
#Option "Rotate" "UD"
#Option "RotateType" "SW"
#Option "RotateType" "HW"
#Option "Center"
#Option "PanelID" "0" #640x480, Sigle, Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "1" #800x600, Sigle, Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "2" #1024x768, Sigle, Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "3" #1280x720, Sigle, Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "4" #1280x1024, Dual, Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "5" #1400x1050, Dual, Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "6" #1600x1200, Dual, Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "7" #1280x800, Sigle, Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "8" #800x480, Sigle, Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "9" #1366x768, Sigle, Non-Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "10" #1360x768, Sigle, Non-Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "11" #1024x768, Dual, Non-Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "12" #1280x768, Sigle, Non-Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "13" #1280x1024, Dual, Non-Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "14" #1400x1050, Dual, Non-Dithering
#Option "PanelID" "15" #1600x1200, Dual, Non-Dithering
Option "PanelID" "19" #1440x900, Dual, Non-Dithering
#Option "CRTPort" "DFP_HIGH"
#Option "CRTPort" "DFP_LOW"
#Option "CRTPort" "DFP_HIGHLOW"
#Option "CRTPort" "DVP0"
#Option "CRTPort" "DVP1"
#Option "LCDPort" "DFP_HIGH"
#Option "LCDPort" "DFP_LOW"
#Option "LCDPort" "DFP_HIGHLOW"
#Option "LCDPort" "DVP0"
#Option "LCDPort" "DVP1"
#Option "DVIPort" "DFP_HIGH"
#Option "DVIPort" "DFP_LOW"
#Option "DVIPort" "DVP0"
#Option "DVIPort" "DVP1"
#Option "TVPort""DFP_HIGH"
#Option "TVPort""DVP0"
#Option "TVPort""DVP1"
#Option "TVDotCrawl"
#Option "TVProgressive"
#Option "TVType""NTSC"
#Option "TVType""PAL"
#Option "TVType""480P"
#Option "TVType""576P"
#Option "TVType""720P"
#Option "TVType""1080I"
#Option "TVType""NTSC_J"
#Option "TVOutput" "S-Video"
#Option "TVOutput" "Composite"
#Option "TVOutput" "SC"
#Option "TVOutput" "RGB"
#Option "TVOutput" "YCbCr"
#Option "TVOutput2" "S-Video"
#Option "TVOutput2" "Composite"
#Option "TVOutput2" "SC"
#Option "TVOutput2" "RGB"
#Option "TVOutput2" "YCbCr"
#Option "TVOutput2" "RGBSC"
#Option "TVOutput2" "YCbCrSC"
#Option "TVVScan" "normal"
#Option "TVVScan" "under"
#Option "TVVScan" "fit"
#Option "TVVScan" "over"
#Option "TVHScale" "1"
#Option "TVHScale" "2"
#Option "TVHScale" "3"
#Option "TVHScale" "4"
#Option "TVHScale" "5"
#Option "TVVScale" "1"
#Option "TVVScale" "2"
#Option "TVVScale" "3"
#Option "TVVScale" "4"
#Option "TVVScale" "5"
#Option "TVEncoder" "VT1621"
#Option "TVEncoder" "VT1622"
#Option "TVEncoder" "VT1622A"
#Option "TVEncoder" "VT1623"
#Option "TVEncoder" "VT1625"
#Option "TVEncoder" "CH7019"
#Option "TVEncoder" "SAA7108"
#Option "TVEncoder" "FS454"
#Option "TVFlickerFilter" "65535"
#Option "TV2Progressive"
#Option "TV2Type""NTSC"
#Option "TV2Type""PAL"
#Option "TV2Type""480P"
#Option "TV2Type""576P"
#Option "TV2Type""720P"
#Option "TV2Type""1080I"
#Option "TV2Type""NTSC_J"
#Option "TV2Output" "S-Video"
#Option "TV2Output" "Composite"
#Option "TV2Output" "RGB"
#Option "TV2Output" "YCbCr"
#Option "TV2Output" "RGBSC"
#Option "TV2Output" "YCbCrSC"
#Option "Refresh" "60"
#Option "DisableVQ"
#Option "NoDDCValue"
##Option "DeviceSwitchHotkey"
##Option "TwinFS454"
#Option "Cap0Deinterlace" "1" #bob
#Option "Cap0Deinterlace" "0" #weave
#Option "Cap0Deinterlace" "2" #median
#Option "Cap1Deinterlace" "1" #bob
#Option "Cap1Deinterlace" "0" #weave
#Option "Cap1Deinterlace" "2" #median
#Option "Cap0FieldSwap"
#Option "NoCap0HFilter"
#Option "NoCap1HFilter"
#Option "CaptureOverScanOff"
#Option "HQVFilterManualSelect"
#Option "MpegHQVVFilterMode" "0" #both CLE266 and PMN880/CN400
#Option "MpegHQVVFilterMode" "1" #both CLE266 and PMN880/CN400
#Option "MpegHQVVFilterMode" "2" #both CLE266 and PMN880/CN400
#Option "MpegHQVVFilterMode" "3" #only CLE266
#Option "MpegHQVVFilterMode" "4" #only CLE266
#Option "MpegHQVVFilterMode" "5" #only CLE266
#Option "MpegHQVHFilterMode" "0" #only CLE266
#Option "MpegHQVHFilterMode" "1" #only CLE266
#Option "MpegHQVHFilterMode" "2" #only CLE266
#Option "MpegHQVHFilterMode" "3" #only CLE266
#Option "MpegHQVHFilterMode" "4" #only CLE266
#Option "MpegHQVHFilterMode" "5" #only CLE266
#Option "CapHQVVFilterMode" "0" #both CLE266 and PMN880/CN400
#Option "CapHQVVFilterMode" "1" #both CLE266 and PMN880/CN400
#Option "CapHQVVFilterMode" "2" #both CLE266 and PMN880/CN400
#Option "CapHQVVFilterMode" "3" #only CLE266
#Option "CapHQVVFilterMode" "4" #only CLE266
#Option "CapHQVVFilterMode" "5" #only CLE266
#Option "CapHQVHFilterMode" "0" #only CLE266
#Option "CapHQVHFilterMode" "1" #only CLE266
#Option "CapHQVHFilterMode" "2" #only CLE266
#Option "CapHQVHFilterMode" "3" #only CLE266
#Option "CapHQVHFilterMode" "4" #only CLE266
#Option "CapHQVHFilterMode" "5" #only CLE266
#Option "SetMpegFBNumber"
#Option "Cap1UseIRQ"
#Option "Cap0SwitchToV3"
#Option "HQVManualSwitch"
#Option "DRIXINERAMA"
#Option "CapInterVersion" "0"
#Option "Cap0NoAutoDetect"
#Option "Cap0DataWidth" "8"
#Option "Cap0DataWidth" "16"
#Option "Cap0VDODecoderDev" "SAA7113"
#Option "Cap0VDODecoderDev" "SAA7108"
#Option "Cap0VDODecoderDev" "SAA7134"
#Option "Cap0VDODecoderI2C" "72" #dependent on H/W layout
#Option "Cap0CompositeMode" "2" #dependent on H/W layout
#Option "Cap0SVideoMode" "9" #dependent on H/W layout
#Option "Cap0TunerMode" "0" #dependent on H/W layout
#Option "Cap0Scaler" "1" #use video decoder scaler
#Option "Cap0Scaler" "0" #not use
#Option "Cap0Brightness" "119" #0-255
#Option "Cap0Contrast" "95" #0-255
#Option "Cap0Hue" "124" #0-255
#Option "Cap0Saturation" "95" #0-255
#Option "Cap0Standard" "PAL"
#Option "Cap0Standard" "NTSC"
#Option "Cap0Standard" "SECAM"
#Option "Cap0TunerDev" "FI1236MK2"
#Option "Cap0TunerI2C" "198"
##Option "Cap0SourceWidth" "720" #not use in current driver
##Option "Cap0SourceHeight" "480" #not use in current driver
#Option "Cap1NoAutoDetect"
#Option "Cap1DataWidth" "8"
#Option "Cap1DataWidth" "16"
#Option "Cap1VDODecoderDev" "SAA7113"
#Option "Cap1VDODecoderDev" "SAA7108"
#Option "Cap1VDODecoderDev" "SAA7134"
#Option "Cap1VDODecoderI2C" "74" #dependent on H/W layout
#Option "Cap1CompositeMode" "2" #dependent on H/W layout
#Option "Cap1SVideoMode" "7" #dependent on H/W layout
#Option "Cap1TunerMode" "0" #dependent on H/W layout
#Option "Cap1Scaler" "1" #use video decoder scaler
#Option "Cap1Scaler" "0" #not use
#Option "Cap1Brightness" "119" #0-255
#Option "Cap1Contrast" "95" #0-255
#Option "Cap1Hue" "124" #0-255
#Option "Cap1Saturation" "95" #0-255
#Option "Cap1Standard" "PAL"
#Option "Cap1Standard" "NTSC"
#Option "Cap1Standard" "SECAM"
#Option "Cap1TunerDev" "FI1236MK2"
#Option "Cap1TunerI2C" "192"
##Option "Cap1SourceWidth" "720" #not use in current driver
##Option "Cap1SourceHeight" "480" #not use in current driver
#Option "NOMPEGAddOneLineOnBottom"
#Option "ReDrawColorkey"
#Option "Cap0CLKinverse"
#Option "Cap1CLKinverse"
#Option "DeBlockingEnable"
#Option "DeBlockingMinimumWidth" "320" #should >0
#Option "DeBlockingMinimumHeight" "240" #should >0
#Option "PatchMPEGDecodeSliceErrorBitstreamDisable"
#Option "Use2DBitBltSignature"
#Option "DISPLAY_3DScaling"
#Option "DISPLAY_3DScaling_HDMI"
#Option "DISPLAY_3DScaling_LCD"
#Option "VideoColorKey" "2098" #0x000832, just an example
#Option "LCD_MSB_ENABLE" #support 3324 intergrated tv lsb/msb setting OR vt1636 lsb/msb setting single LCD only
EndSection

Section "Screen"
Modes "1440x900"
Monitor "Monitor"
Virtual 1440 900
EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier "Default Layout"
screen 0 "Default Screen" 0 0
Inputdevice "Synaptics Touchpad"
EndSection
Section "Module"
Load "glx"
Load "dri"
Load "extmod"
EndSection
Section "DRI"
Group 0
Mode 0666
EndSection


EndSection

davidryderuk
June 11th, 2008, 11:39 AM
HI Macroshaft,
I have the same video card and driver on a hi-grade laptop and it works fine for me, when i am using kernel 2.6.24.16 (the one after this does not allow me to use opengl acceleration or visual effects for some reason). You might want to try fine tuning your xorg file using the Screens and graphics application (which is lurking around in the application menu but has to be selected in the edit menu option), before you install the video driver so that the correct type of monitor is already selected, and then leaving the installer to do everything else when running the kernel mentioned above. You should also be able to increase your resolution in this utility even with a generic video driver, although after selecting the right type of screen and installing the driver you may also have to log out and back in before the full range of resolutions become available.

Additionally i was wondering if you have any problems with your fan control and if you have found any solutions for it, as you are only the third owner of a hi-grade laptop in the ubuntu community i have found (not a great deal of support). I have fan control working under vista but not under linux (ubuntu, pclinux,mandriva, sabayon, fedora etc etc) which is rather irritating. Lastly if your headphone socket doesn't work then you may have the same problem i found with my laptop, which can be solved by applying a patch to the alsa source (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=556217).

My xorg.conf file is shown below.


# xorg.conf (X.Org X Window System server configuration file)
#
# This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, using
# values from the debconf database.
#
# Edit this file with caution, and see the xorg.conf manual page.
# (Type "man xorg.conf" at the shell prompt.)
#
# This file is automatically updated on xserver-xorg package upgrades *only*
# if it has not been modified since the last upgrade of the xserver-xorg
# package.
#
# If you have edited this file but would like it to be automatically updated
# again, run the following command:
# sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Generic Keyboard"
Driver "kbd"
Option "XkbRules" "xorg"
Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
Option "XkbLayout" "gb"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Configured Mouse"
Driver "mouse"
Option "CorePointer"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Synaptics Touchpad"
Driver "synaptics"
Option "SendCoreEvents" "true"
Option "Device" "/dev/psaux"
Option "Protocol" "auto-dev"
Option "HorizEdgeScroll" "0"
EndSection

Section "Device"
Identifier "Configured Video Device"
Boardname "via"
Busid "PCI:1:0:0"
Driver "via"
Screen 0
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
Identifier "Monitor"
Vendorname "Generic LCD Display"
Modelname "LCD Panel 1024x768"
Horizsync 31.5-48.0
Vertrefresh 56.0 - 65.0
modeline "800x600@56" 36.0 800 824 896 1024 600 601 603 625 +hsync +vsync
modeline "800x600@60" 40.0 800 840 968 1056 600 601 605 628 +hsync +vsync
modeline "1280x768@60" 80.14 1280 1344 1480 1680 768 769 772 795 -hsync +vsync
modeline "1280x720@60" 74.48 1280 1336 1472 1664 720 721 724 746 -hsync +vsync
Gamma 1.0
EndSection

Section "Screen"
Monitor "Monitor"
Identifier "Default Screen"
Device "Configured Video Device"
Defaultdepth 24
SubSection "Display"
Depth 24
Virtual 1280 768
Modes "1280x768@60" "1280x720@60" "800x600@60" "800x600@56"
EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier "Default Layout"
screen 0 "Default Screen" 0 0
Inputdevice "Synaptics Touchpad"
EndSection
Section "Module"
Load "extmod"
Load "glx"
Load "GLcore"
Load "v4l"
EndSection
Section "device" #
Identifier "device1"
Boardname "via"
Busid "PCI:1:0:0"
Driver "via"
Screen 1
EndSection
Section "screen" #
Identifier "screen1"
Device "device1"
Defaultdepth 24
Monitor "monitor1"
SubSection "Display"
Depth 24
Modes "640x480@60"
EndSubSection
EndSection
Section "monitor" #
Identifier "monitor1"
Vendorname "Plug 'n' Play"
Modelname "Plug 'n' Play"
modeline "640x480@60" 25.2 640 656 752 800 480 490 492 525 -vsync -hsync
Gamma 1.0
EndSection
Section "ServerFlags"
EndSection

Section "DRI"
Group 0
Mode 0666
EndSection

macroshaft
June 15th, 2008, 11:01 PM
I havn't even thought about fan control but my system runs like an oven! what have you tried?

I can confirm my headphones don't work I'll try that out soon but your compiz suggestion failed, screens and graphics won't let me select a monitor, it keeps crashing!

davidryderuk
June 17th, 2008, 01:51 PM
Are you trying to edit the xorg.conf file that you posted, with Screens and Graphics, or have you restored the the orginal xorg.conf file from your backup? I have to admit i haven't tried this driver with anything other than an LCD monitor, so i can't offer much else in the way of advice. However I would be tempted to do the following to my computer:

1. Restore the xorg.conf file you had before trying to install the via driver or if you don't have a backup open the terminal and run the "sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg" command (i just read about in your xorg.conf file) to create a new xorg.conf file. Either way you should start with a xorg.conf file that is properly configured and untouched by the via script.

2. Run the via driver script, letting it choose how to change the xorg.conf file.

3. When your computer screen goes black, restart the computer in text mode (add "3" to the boot up options) and run nano to edit your xorg.conf file (sudo nano /etc/X11/xorg.conf).

4. If after adding the right monitor options your computer still doesn't work, assume the driver is flawed and wait for the bug to be fixed in a future release.

As to what the right monitor option is, maybe you should check the tkarena forum for similar problems, like this one (http://www.tkarena.com/forums/linux-arena/37186-vn896-ubuntu-8-04-vias-linux-portal-drivers.html). or check your pre-via xorg.conf file for any monitor options that are changed after running the via driver script.

With reference to the fan control i was hoping you would know more about it than me, but personally i have tried running lm-sensors and pwmconfig, with no success (lots of temperature sensors but no fan information). I have also looked at my bios options, before quickly relising that the bios options are too limited to include anything releated to fan control. I have checked that my proccessors frequency scalling works properly. Lastely i have also tried manual methods (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=230673) of fan control that have absolutly no effect. However if your fans work the same in windows and linux then i would say that they are probally as good as your going to get (windows makes a good measuring stick for compatibility on my computer). My problem is the opposite to yours, in the respect that my fan works at a consistent, noisy level from the moment my computer starts up, dispite the fact that the temperature can go 20 degrees below the temperature at which windows would usually stop the fan.

macroshaft
June 17th, 2008, 06:59 PM
When I try to set the monitor options it crashes so I can't