Thinking of getting a Mac this summer

[Kernel Sanders]

Hey guys!

I'm a windows XP/vista "power user", a Linux n00b, and I know as much about Mac's as I do about creating a quantum singularity in my bedroom.

What I am very interested in is technology, software, and new ways of working. It's what drove me to linux and then I fell in love with the philosophy.

Mac's I find fascinating. I want to learn about them, and use them.

My question is, given my deep knowledge and love of Windows, am I likely to be able to adapt to Macs? Or will I probably hate it?

Are Macs really as fun as advertised by both the company and fanboys?

Any info you can give me on your experiences of the transition, your experiences and opinions of windows lovers trying macs etc.. is very much appreciated :)

Cheers :)

[MONODA]

considering that your have been a windows user and like the way it does things, OS X will take some getting used to. Some differences are: The OS tries to hide everything that might look "scary" (eg. system files or anything that a normal user doesnt want to see), you uninstall a package by moving it to the trash, it uses laymans terms usually ( I a mean REALLY layman, like instead of properties, it is called get info :|), it is blazing fast until you install a few things, almost everything you download from the apple site is a demo or sharware( maybe linux has spoiled me :P), installing anything a bit more advanced can be harder than doing in other OSs (installing WINE is a killer :P, you have to install xcode, X11 and macports and afer that, you system will probably slow down considerabely), MS software is terrible on it (MS Office always crashes). It may seem like I hate macs or wouldnt recommend them, but I actually like them and do recommend it to most epople, just usually not hardcore windows users like you i guess. iLife is great, so is iWork, just everything beyond that isnt as nice as it could be...(for most people you wont need to go farther than that.) good luck choosing
EDIT: YES! I got two coffe cups, with FOAM!

[BennyHill]

I brought one this year but got sold about 2 months into it, for me I hated it.

Like the above past it is fast untill you install programs which is pretty pointless, also most of the additional software like games, dvd burning kits etc you need to pay for, there is some for free, but most are not great.

You may like it, but I find Linux much more intresting & enjoyable.

[barnex]

I've switched from windows to mac to linux. I liked macintosh 10x more then windows and linux 10x more than macintosh :)
One piece of advice, if you are interested in running linux on mac hardware: be prepared for some difficulties. After a lot of tweaking, Ubuntu on my macbook is still not running as it should...

[ilrudie]

I love my Ubuntu machines and I love my Mac. Some things are just better supported and easier on my Mac so I'm keeping it around however 90% of what I do I do on a PC in Hardy these days.

I found my mac to be incredibly stable, reliable and fast (even after installing programs). As some of the previous posters suggested it takes user friendliness to the extreme which can be frustrating for people who know Unix or want power user type options. Others mentioned that installing X11 apps like wine can be a pain which is true but I have not found I personally have much need for X11 apps on my mac. I like the way applications are treated as a single "file". It makes installing and removing apps trivial (e.g. install by dragging to the applications folder uninstall by dragging to the trash can). It's not apt but it beats windows anyday.

As for switching from Windows it took me about 2 days to be comfortable and I am always learning new tricks here and there. If you have the money and motivation trying out a mac could be a great experience. Just know going into it that like GNU/Linux OSX will be different from Windows.

**If you get a mac laptop don't pay for the apple ram upgrade but order yourself the extra ram from a separate vendor and install it. Having 2 gigs of ram instead of 512mb may be why my mac doesn't slow down after installing programs. Also it will decrease the amount of paging OSX has to do which will improve your battery life. IMO its totally worth it.**

Hope that helps.

[aysiu]

If you are, in fact, "very interested in ... new ways of working," then I don't see how you couldn't love exploring a new operating system.

It is slick - very smooth, very pretty to look at.

But don't expect a lot of usability and intuitiveness, especially if you're used to Linux and Windows.

[karellen]

probably the best thing you could do is read some in detail reviews of Mac OS X, Macbooks and iMacs ;)
some pretty good ones:
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/mac-os-x-10-5.ars
http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/apple-macbook-black-core/4505-3121_7-32737068.html

[x0as]

I haven't noticed any slow downs after installing anything on my macbook.

installing anything a bit more advanced can be harder than doing in other OSs (installing WINE is a killer :P, you have to install xcode, X11 and macports

X11 is already installed with leopard, xcode is on the leopard dvd & just needs to installer running, only bit of installing macports that might confuse somebody is editing .profile or .bashrc to add PATH & MANPATH.

Once you've got macports installed, installing something is as simple as running "port install wine" all the dependancies are install at the same time.



**If you get a mac laptop don't pay for the apple ram upgrade but order yourself the extra ram from a separate vendor and install it. Having 2 gigs of ram instead of 512mb may be why my mac doesn't slow down after installing programs. Also it will decrease the amount of paging OSX has to do which will improve your battery life. IMO its totally worth it.**


Got to agree with that, Apples ram prices are stupid , as is charging extra for a different colour macbook.

I moved from linux to osx about 3 or 4 months ago & glad I did. I've installed everything I used on linux with macports. Sleep works perfectly for me, I've disabled safe sleep so it takes around 2 seconds to sleep & wakes up almost instantly.

Macbook was cheaper than dell's m1330n (which was the other laptop I was looking at buying) by the time you add a decent battery, equivalent cpu & bluetooth to the dell, dell still lacks 802.11n & gigabit ethernet.

I've got mine setup with Leopard & xp so I can install most software that's available. I've still got linux servers which will stay linux but I can't see me going back to a linux desktop while Apple are still doing a unix based OS.

Biggest issue I've got is why apple couldn't fit a normal keyboard, I still keep typing " instead of @.

[MONODA]

X11 is already installed with leopard, xcode is on the leopard dvd & just needs to installer running, only bit of installing macports that might confuse somebody is editing .profile or .bashrc to add PATH & MANPATH.

Once you've got macports installed, installing something is as simple as running "port install wine" all the dependancies are install at the same time.
Oh oops, I forgot to mension that i was installing it on tiger. Even after I installed macports and X11 and tried to port install wine, halfway through compilation I got an error. Also, installing macports and X11 slowed down my system considreabley, not sure why though...

[the6step]

considering that your have been a windows user and like the way it does things, OS X will take some getting used to. Some differences are: The OS tries to hide everything that might look "scary" (eg. system files or anything that a normal user doesnt want to see)

Nope, stop right. Windows does this by default, this is what normal Windows users are used to. In any case, this can be turned off in both Windows AND Mac OSX, depending on how much you want revealed to you.

you uninstall a package by moving it to the trash

Much easier to understand for a Windows user rather than Add/Remove Programs (which often doesn't TRULY uninstall programs..... trust me non issue for Windows user

it uses laymans terms usually ( I a mean REALLY layman, like instead of properties, it is called get info :|)

true

it is blazing fast until you install a few things, almost everything you download from the apple site is a demo or sharware( maybe linux has spoiled me :P)

???? What "demo" software would you be downloading from the Apple site? The only thing i have ever downloaded from Apple is Xcode and iPhone SDK, and that ships with Leopard by default, iTunes is on Mac by default also, as is Quicktime, I don't see what you would be downloading that would be "demo"....

installing anything a bit more advanced can be harder than doing in other OSs (installing WINE is a killer :P, you have to install xcode, X11 and macports and afer that, you system will probably slow down considerabely)

I don't think many people use Wine in Mac OS X, rather they just virtualize with VMware and just run it on their virtual os (XP, Vista, what have you)

MS software is terrible on it (MS Office always crashes).

I don't know about crashes, but I totally agree; Office 2008 sucks royally, much better off running 2007 on virtual XP, or just using iWork. Excel without VBA is pointless to me (Numbers is a great program but Excel is just a BEAST and has been in the spreadsheet game much much longer) and Keynote rocks Powerpoint, Pages and Word are for the most part the same, Entourage just plain sucks, no real reason to get Office 2008.....

All in all, to get Mac or not? If you can't think of any good reasons, I personally wouldn't.

Me? CS3, Final Cut Pro 2, Some great programs, everything works the way I want it to without configuration, I love how the OS functions, etc. Honestly Macs (and any operating system in general) are something that you yourself have to sit in front of for a couple of weeks to really know if you like them or not. It's easy for Linux because all you have to do is download it and try it (free), but not so much for Macs. I tried the osx86 project and in about 1 month after that I dumped Windows. I would dump Macs for Linux if I could but it's just not realistic, no matter how much the open source guys try to convince me. The same exact thing for Open Office/Gimp/Inkscape. They are great ideas in practice, but you honestly can't expect me to replace Office 2007/Photoshop/Illustrator.

[MONODA]

???? What "demo" software would you be downloading from the Apple site? The only thing i have ever downloaded from Apple is Xcode and iPhone SDK, and that ships with Leopard by default, iTunes is on Mac by default also, as is Quicktime, I don't see what you would be downloading that would be "demo"....
i mean software downloaded from the downloads section, not official apple software. Those are almost always shareware (with a trial only argh!) and usually pretty bad and hard to find, unless they are opensource.

[handy]

I didn't read the whole thread so someone may have already suggested that you try a partition with the illegal hacked OS X (Hackintosh) that you can install on many PC's (check if you can on yours). It won't take you long to find the info' via google, to check whether your hardware is suitable or not.

It is a cheap way to find out whether you are wasting your money on basically an operating system.

I own an iMac, I like it, but it was an expensive way to get a computer that I can't fix when it breaks.

I mostly use ArchLinux on it.

Here is a link you may find useful:

http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/

[obrient]

Personally all three OSs have their ups and downs. The new Mac OS is way better than anything prior to 10. I have used Mac and PC while I was growing up and have always felt comfortable in both. The installing, hidden files, slow downs, price points (on comparable hardware) are all things that have gotten to a point that is pretty close.

The biggest difference for me beside a few differences in keyboard shortcuts, is the window set up. I like the application to all be inside on complete window. and that switching apps is switching a window. Now this is just a frustration in use, not a deterrent for using the OS. It has also always upset me with the fact that closing all the windows of an app on Mac doesn't close the app. I get mad when I work with someone on a Mac who is complaining about slow downs, yet they have ever app open since the last time they restarted the machine...

Other than that I have to say the only other downside is if you want to get linux on your older Apple Hardware that is something that you may have problems with, compared to x86 hardware. All and all go for it the worst thing you can end up with is more storage :)

[ilrudie]

I didn't read the whole thread so someone may have already suggested that you try a partition with the illegal hacked OS X (Hackintosh) that you can install on many PC's (check if you can on yours). It won't take you long to find the info' via google, to check whether your hardware is suitable or not.

It is a cheap way to find out whether you are wasting your money on basically an operating system.

I own an iMac, I like it, but it was an expensive way to get a computer that I can't fix when it breaks.

I mostly use ArchLinux on it.

Here is a link you may find useful:

http://www.versiontracker.com/macosx/

Regarding the Hackintosh idea. Its interesting and if you really feel that the OS is all Apple has to offer then its probably worth looking into. I would however note that a big part of what makes a Mac "better" than a PC is that Apple carefully controls and tests all its hardware so you don't have hardware compatibility problems. The first time you turn on your mac everything will absolutely just plain work. The resolution will be correct. Bluetooth, wifi, sound, sleep... everything will just function. When you plug in a USB harddrive the USB port will provide the standard amount of power so it will spin up and work. These are places where PC manufacturers may have cut corners and provided almost standard parts with windows drivers that fill in the gaps and it may give you problems in Hackintosh just like it gives people problems in GNU/Linux and Windows.

My point is really that you can't judge OSX fairly if you don't run it on a Mac.

[ilrudie]

It has also always upset me with the fact that closing all the windows of an app on Mac doesn't close the app. I get mad when I work with someone on a Mac who is complaining about slow downs, yet they have ever app open since the last time they restarted the machine...

This is really a problem in all desktop OS's I use these days. Mac is 99% consistent with closing a window not closing the application which say what you will about the behavior the consistency is nice. Plus apple-q closes the application 100% of the time. If you have ever looked at the average Windows User's setup you will notice that there are 20+ applications running in the system tray and they are complaining about slowdowns. Many programs in Windows leave some portion of the program open in the background/system tray even after all the windows are closed. Whats worse 15 of those programs will load at boot so the average user never gets rid of them. Even in Ubuntu these days I am noticing more applications that remain open in the background after closing the window. Gwget springs to mind right off hand. I don't want to knock gwget for doing this because I really like that when I close the window it keeps downloading the things I want it to download. This is really just a problem that all users regardless of OS need to understand when they are experiencing slowdowns and it is not by any means isolated to OS X.

[handy]

Regarding the Hackintosh idea. Its interesting and if you really feel that the OS is all Apple has to offer then its probably worth looking into. I would however note that a big part of what makes a Mac "better" than a PC is that Apple carefully controls and tests all its hardware so you don't have hardware compatibility problems. The first time you turn on your mac everything will absolutely just plain work. The resolution will be correct. Bluetooth, wifi, sound, sleep... everything will just function. When you plug in a USB harddrive the USB port will provide the standard amount of power so it will spin up and work. These are places where PC manufacturers may have cut corners and provided almost standard parts with windows drivers that fill in the gaps and it may give you problems in Hackintosh just like it gives people problems in GNU/Linux and Windows.

My point is really that you can't judge OSX fairly if you don't run it on a Mac.

We have 3 Mac's in this house, though I prefer to use Arch on mine as it gives me the ability to tailor it to my satisfaction & runs so much faster than Leopard does on my 24" iMac.

There is a database on the web which lists hardware compatibility for the hackintosh OS. It is certainly worth a look for anyone contemplating installing Leopard on non Apple hardware.

[hanzomon4]

Get one, it's money well spent. I ran Ubuntu on a Dell for about 2 years before I got my macbook pro. I love Ubuntu but OS X is a different kind of beast that's oh so slick in a way Ubuntu can't come close to right now. You don't have to google to get basic things like sound to work right. Even advanced task like sharing a wireless connection is as simple as a single click, try that in ubuntu. It's a lot of fun to use but not nearly as customizable as Ubuntu. Mine is packed with software and it never slows down. When I say packed I mean all of the adobe apps, the entire office suit, final cut/soundtrack pro, the ilife suit, ardour, adium, skype, vlc, transmission, X11, just tons of **** large and small. Oh and of course I have Ubuntu on it as well installed to the harddrive. Everything works except the things that don't work well in any Ubuntu install. But all of my hardware works and it's a snap to use. If you like OS's get a mac, you can install anything on it...

And just to add you won't lose any functionality if you install Ubuntu. I couldn't be happier with my Ubuntu install on this machine. I even found a way to mount my ext3 partition in OS X, and of course Ubuntu mounts my hfs+ partitions because it's that damn cool.

[cprofitt]

What I am very interested in is technology, software, and new ways of working. It's what drove me to linux and then I fell in love with the philosophy.


Apple is a proprietary company that uses some open-source stuff to do business. They lock you down as far as hardware as well. If you really like 'exploring' a Mac and OS X is likely not a good choice.


Mac's I find fascinating. I want to learn about them, and use them.


There is really not much too them that is significantly different, from a purely technical perspective, than Windows or Linux. I had to use one for about a month to help the Apple Sys Admin integrate them with AD. I did not find all the 'extras' that make an Apple with OS X worth it for me. YMMV.


My question is, given my deep knowledge and love of Windows, am I likely to be able to adapt to Macs? Or will I probably hate it?


I do not think your knowledge of Windows would be an impediment; it depends on what you like about your computer... if you just want to edit images, videos and surf the internet a Mac is a good choice (assuming you want to spend the money)


Are Macs really as fun as advertised by both the company and fanboys?


Many of the commercials are flat out mis-truths so I would not believe them.


Any info you can give me on your experiences of the transition, your experiences and opinions of windows lovers trying macs etc.. is very much appreciated :)


It really depends on what you want.

Freedom? Not Mac.
It Just Works? Not Mac.
Video and Image editing with minor problems? Mac.
Spreadsheets, C# programming, Media Center, with minor problems? Windows.

Freedom to make your computer work for you? Linux.
Freedom to program in C, Python, Perl, etc... Linux.

[cprofitt]

Regarding the Hackintosh idea. Its interesting and if you really feel that the OS is all Apple has to offer then its probably worth looking into. I would however note that a big part of what makes a Mac "better" than a PC is that Apple carefully controls and tests all its hardware so you don't have hardware compatibility problems. The first time you turn on your mac everything will absolutely just plain work.

Not the experience I had with over 100 Mac notebooks and wireless.

** sarcasm **

I know my organization was using a very bit-player in the networking industry, but it really should have 'just worked out of the box'.

Apple was definitely correct that the problem was with the CISCO wireless gear and not their driver. We really should not have used such a small company to provide our wireless APs. I was confused how in the world Microsoft got it right when Apple did not... but the Apple system engineer set me straight the same way my dad always did; "Because I said so." Dunno... though it still tickles my thinking a bit that when XP was loaded on the Mac using bootcamp the wireless worked. Nah, nothing there. Mac's just work and the problme must have been the fact that we used an off-brand wireless AP; never should have used a CISCO solution.

** end sarcasm **

[hanzomon4]

Someones bitter....

[bashveank]

I would say to go ahead and get one. After being a Linux geek for a while I got a MacBook Pro and I love it so far.
Also, I have to disagree with you, PrivateVoid, OS X is just as good as Linux when it comes to programming, it's far ahead of anything else, media wise.
That said, you will have some downsides, the biggest one being that good software will cost you more money, but it is good software.

[cprofitt]

Someones bitter....

Bitter, no.

Trying to warn someone that it is not all roses and daisies with a Mac, yes.

Macs are good for some... not for others... and they have their share of issues.

[cprofitt]

I would say to go ahead and get one. After being a Linux geek for a while I got a MacBook Pro and I love it so far.
Also, I have to disagree with you, PrivateVoid, OS X is just as good as Linux when it comes to programming, it's far ahead of anything else, media wise.
That said, you will have some downsides, the biggest one being that good software will cost you more money, but it is good software.

I am not a big fan of the Mac programming tools, but since you can use BSD programming tools I will concede the point that it is at least as good at Linux.

[ilrudie]

Not the experience I had with over 100 Mac notebooks and wireless.

** sarcasm **

I know my organization was using a very bit-player in the networking industry, but it really should have 'just worked out of the box'.

Apple was definitely correct that the problem was with the CISCO wireless gear and not their driver. We really should not have used such a small company to provide our wireless APs. I was confused how in the world Microsoft got it right when Apple did not... but the Apple system engineer set me straight the same way my dad always did; "Because I said so." Dunno... though it still tickles my thinking a bit that when XP was loaded on the Mac using bootcamp the wireless worked. Nah, nothing there. Mac's just work and the problme must have been the fact that we used an off-brand wireless AP; never should have used a CISCO solution.

** end sarcasm **


Thats an odd problem. I have never had any problem connecting to any 802.11b or g AP with my Macbook Pro. Were you trying to connect to a nonstandard pre n AP or something?

[cprofitt]

Thats an odd problem. I have never had any problem connecting to any 802.11b or g AP with my Macbook Pro. Were you trying to connect to a nonstandard pre n AP or something?

The AP was a standard A / B / G Cisco.

When we used bootcamp on the laptop and loaded Windows it had no issues. With OS X 10.4 it had all sorts of issues.

[jeyaganesh]

It is not true that itunes is best for music. I have creative audigy sound card. I tested Windows media player 11, itunes and real player. Among them Windows media player 11 showed superior quality of music.Itunes playing music as like from inside the well. Before Windows media player 11, real player had the superior quality. With windows media player you play both music and video.

[the8thstar]

The Hackintosh idea (OSX86 project) is illegal and tedious. Thus being said, I must admit that I burnt the DVD just to see what OS X could do to my computer (see secs below).

Well, the internet didn't work, but everything else did right off the bat. That was beautiful and very very fast. Mind you, I only had a Core Solo! Maybe HP products are actually very good inside, I don't know. Eventually, I ditched it because I didn't feel right using something illegal and I didn't want to download pirated versions of iLife or iWork.

Thanks to this experience, my next purchase will be an iMac. I am impressed by the solidity of the OS + hardware and it will be great for my wife who is an application user, not a system administrator.