this is outrageous

[karellen]

I really fail to understand why are apple products so expensive in my country
here are the prices from the official apple store for Romania:
http://store.apple.ro/IMC-Apple-Store/WebObjects/Asto.woa/wa/stockPageByName?name=ro_macbook_new
the first macbook costs $1700
the second model - around $2000
the third - almost $2400 (a dollar equals aproximately 2.33 romanian Lei)
enough to say that with 1700$ you can buy a monster laptop here
... on the international apple store, they are much much cheaper
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook?mco=MTE3MjA
it's obvious
if someday I want an apple produc I'll make sure I'll order it from outside my country (even with shipping costs it will be a great save)
I am curious if someone is facing the same problems in his country (except US)

[Alfa989]

Apple doesn't *think* Romania is an important market, therefore, they don't care about it. They don't care if people buy Macs in Romania. Apple is like that... :S

One of Apple's bad things, they think the north american market is the most important in the world, when it clearly isn't...

[karellen]

Apple doesn't *think* Romania is an important market, therefore, they don't care about it. They don't care if people buy Macs in Romania. Apple is like that... :S

One of Apple's bad things, they think the north american market is the most important in the world, when it clearly isn't...

well too bad for them. the people here who want and apple pc (it's just a pc after all) prefer to purchase it from abroad

[Bakon Jarser]

well too bad for them. the people here who want and apple pc (it's just a pc after all) prefer to purchase it from abroad

Clearly you've never seen there commercials.

Mac: Hi I'm a mac.

PC: And I'm a pc.

Mac clearly doesn't want to be just a pc. And they want to be expensive because those are the kinds of customers they like. They could make a budget computer if they really wanted.

[karellen]

Clearly you've never seen there commercials.

Mac: Hi I'm a mac.

PC: And I'm a pc.

Mac clearly doesn't want to be just a pc. And they want to be expensive because those are the kinds of customers they like. They could make a budget computer if they really wanted.

I've seen them. pretty childish, if you ask me. they take standard components from Intel, ATi, Nvidia - you name it, they envelop them in a shinny case and there you have the all-so-different Mac.

[Alfa989]

They could make a budget computer if they really wanted.
It's called Mac mini... :rolleyes:

[Alfa989]

I've seen them. pretty childish, if you ask me. they take standard components from Intel, ATi, Nvidia - you name it, they envelop them in a shinny case and there you have the all-so-different Mac.
God, FUD is so annoying... If you think thats what Apple does then you haven't owned, used or even seen a Mac.

[LaRoza]

Apple doesn't *think* Romania is an important market, therefore, they don't care about it. They don't care if people buy Macs in Romania. Apple is like that... :S

One of Apple's bad things, they think the north american market is the most important in the world, when it clearly isn't...

Well, technically, they are an American company. Not all companies are international ;)

Although if American prices are considered good elsewhere, I feel very bad for elsewhere.

[karellen]

God, FUD is so annoying... If you think thats what Apple does then you haven't owned, used or even seen a Mac.

maybe you could explain me in detail what Apple does. and yes, I have used an Apple computer (seems that Apple fans are alergic to the word "PC"). do you think that OEM have a different pile of chips just for Apple? (when they were using their in house PowerPC, maybe this was the case, but since the Intel transition it's not anymore)
and I suppose a Mac doesn't even use the von Neumann architecture ;)

[karellen]

Well, technically, they are an American company. Not all companies are international ;)

Although if American prices are considered good elsewhere, I feel very bad for elsewhere.

well I've always felt that almost everything is cheaper in the US (for example we pay here 1 euro for a liter of petrol); maybe except the medical care, which from what I've heard, it's pretty expensive

[Alfa989]

maybe you could explain me in detail what Apple does. and yes, I have used an Apple computer (seems that Apple fans are alergic to the word "PC"). do you think that OEM have a different pile of chips just for Apple? (when they were using their in house PowerPC, maybe this was the case, but since the Intel transition it's not anymore)
and I suppose a Mac doesn't even use the von Neumann architecture ;)
Well, they design the motherboards and work very closely with Intel (The MBA is an example). And they certainly don't just envelop components in a "shinny" case. Apple designes the cases so that they are durable, well-made and work according to what they want their computers to be. Macs, when on, make almost no noise, up to the point when you don't know whether it's on or off. They come with the right ports (Although Apple seems to have a problem with the number of USBs :lolflag:), throwing in necessary things like FireWire and eliminate WTF ports such as serial or parallel. They are well thought out (magnesium hinges in laptops (white iBook G3), handles (iBook G3), big trackpad (laptops), super easy upgrading (Mac Pro), space saving design (iMac), integrated webcams (Apple started the frenzy), etc...

They come up with good solutions and well-thought products. Something the vast majority of PC manufacturers don't, with a few exceptions (Lenovo, Sony...)

[karellen]

Well, they design the motherboards and work very closely with Intel (The MBA is an example). And they certainly don't just envelop components in a "shinny" case. Apple designes the cases so that they are durable, well-made and work according to what they want their computers to be. Macs, when on, make almost no noise, up to the point when you don't know whether it's on or off. They come with the right ports (Although Apple seems to have a problem with the number of USBs :lolflag:), throwing in necessary things like FireWire and eliminate WTF ports such as serial or parallel. They are well thought out (magnesium hinges in laptops (white iBook G3), handles (iBook G3), big trackpad (laptops), super easy upgrading (Mac Pro), space saving design (iMac), integrated webcams (Apple started the frenzy), etc...

They come up with good solutions and well-thought products. Something the vast majority of PC manufacturers don't, with a few exceptions (Lenovo, Sony...)

a shinny durable case, eliminating some ports (which I don't think it's something useful), metal handles, new trackpads and a webcam does not justify the overpricing. for me, at least

[mikewhatever]

Apple doesn't *think* Romania is an important market, therefore, they don't care about it. They don't care if people buy Macs in Romania. Apple is like that... :S

One of Apple's bad things, they think the north american market is the most important in the world, when it clearly isn't...

That sounds like total BS. You've had a much better shot with post #11.

[Alfa989]

That sounds like total BS. You've had a much better shot with post #11.

What's BS about it?

[Alfa989]

well I've always felt that almost everything is cheaper in the US (for example we pay here 1 euro for a liter of petrol); maybe except the medical care, which from what I've heard, it's pretty expensive
That's because they have their own oil fields and such... Here, only Norway (I think) is a major oil producer. And, God knows why, they are so stubborn they don't want to be in the Union... Anyway, worse for them...

And I still don't understand why there's no free health care there... :confused: I mean, we're in the XXI century and you still get things like that...

Anyway, a little off topic

[karellen]

That's because they have their own oil fields and such... Here, only Norway (I think) is a major oil producer. And, God knows why, they are so stubborn they don't want to be in the Union... Anyway, worse for them...

And I still don't understand why there's no free health care there... :confused: I mean, we're in the XXI century and you still get things like that...

Anyway, a little off topic

Norway doesn't want to be in the EU because of the common european fishing policies , which Norway should obey if wants to be a member
:D or at least that the official stance

and on topic, do you own a Mac? (I'm pretty pissed off by Apple pricings in my country)

[hanzomon4]

I own a mac and I love it, it's just a really nice PC... Get over it already. The price is up there but it's worth it. You could also look at it this way: Macs are specially designed pcs made by one company. Regular pcs that run windows are a dime a dozen. Macs are not competing with other mac oems so they really have no reason to be super competitive in regards to price. But the level of care and design that you get when you buy a mac does make the price competitive when compared to PC manufactures that offer the same level of care and design. If you just compare the components Macs are probably over priced, but you're not just paying for components. If that's all you care about you really don't want a Mac.

[Alfa989]

Norway doesn't want to be in the EU because of the common european fishing policies , which Norway should obey if wants to be a member
:D or at least that the official stance

and on topic, do you own a Mac? (I'm pretty pissed off by Apple pricings in my country)

Yeah I do own a Mac apart from the PC... :) It hasn't given me any problems yet... Leopard works fine... So far... :P

I bought it in 2005, so the €-$ difference wasn't as hight as it is today...

[karellen]

Yeah I do own a Mac apart from the PC... :) It hasn't given me any problems yet... Leopard works fine... So far... :P

I bought it in 2005, so the €-$ difference wasn't as hight as it is today...

well I'm considering buying one this year (maybe for Christmas :D) as I need a laptop besides my regular desktop pc and I was very dissapointed by the price. that's why I'll probably order one from US

[Alfa989]

well I'm considering buying one this year (maybe for Christmas :D) as I need a laptop besides my regular desktop pc and I was very dissapointed by the price. that's why I'll probably order one from US
Bear in mind that you can't order items from the US store and get them shipped to Europe.

[Bakon Jarser]

Bear in mind that you can't order items from the US store and get them shipped to Europe.

You can if you know someone in the US ;)

[karellen]

You can if you know someone in the US ;)

well that's exactly my situation as I have a few pals there who came in Romania every summer holiday ;)

[Alfa989]

You can if you know someone in the US ;)

Yeah, but that's not ordering directly from Apple, is it? :D

[LaRoza]

well I've always felt that almost everything is cheaper in the US (for example we pay here 1 euro for a liter of petrol); maybe except the medical care, which from what I've heard, it's pretty expensive

It depends I would think. Where I live (Pennsylvania), avocados are expensive and rare (too bad I love them so much), but out in California, they are common and cheap. How much would an avocado cost in Romania? (I am guess you can't get them, as they are a South American and Mexican fruit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avocado)

I would also guess you Romanians (which almost came out Romulans) use less gas (Americans don't use "petrol") on average. The price of fuel is probably the same as in the USA for the use of it.

I think the medical care would be the same cost, or even less (I don't know the state of medical care in Romania). It would also depends on what medical treatment is being done.

As for Apple, I am not sure why they overprice their products so much. True, they have a "cult" effect, but they would be so much more popular if one could go into a store and see two "PC"'s with similiar hardware (except for the case and a few minor details) and OS X or Windows. I would be Mac's would be much more common, even if they kept everything else the same (the lock-in etc)

[Bakon Jarser]

It depends I would think. Where I live (Pennsylvania), avocados are expensive and rare (too bad I love them so much), but out in California, they are common and cheap. How much would an avocado cost in Romania? (I am guess you can't get them, as they are a South American and Mexican fruit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avocado)

As for Apple, I am not sure why they overprice their products so much. True, they have a "cult" effect, but they would be so much more popular if one could go into a store and see two "PC"'s with similiar hardware (except for the case and a few minor details) and OS X or Windows. I would be Mac's would be much more common, even if they kept everything else the same (the lock-in etc)

Mmmmmmmmmmm.........quacamole is one of the greatest things on earth. I couldn't live without avacados. They're reasonably cheap here in Arizona.

As for macs and increased popularity if they are cheap, I'll have to disagree. I'll use linux as an example. A lot of people won't try linux because it is free. Lots of people think things are better because they are more expensive. So for apple to maintain the belief that they are better than normal computers they have to be more expensive.

[Alfa989]

As for macs and increased popularity if they are cheap, I'll have to disagree. I'll use linux as an example. A lot of people won't try linux because it is free. Lots of people think things are better because they are more expensive. So for apple to maintain the belief that they are better than normal computers they have to be more expensive.
Emm... iMacs are way cheaper than all-in-one PCs... Mac Pros are cheaper then other manufacturer's workstations, etc...

[scottro]

I believe that Apple has stated (if not, their actions certainly show it, anyway) that they're not really interested in the lower priced market. Of course, such arrogance cost them back in the old days, when they had a better product than MS but lost, probably almost entirely due to pricing.

Although I think they're just as evil as MS at the top, I have to admit--they have a nice product. My wife bought a Mac last weekend--we're in NYC, so there are 3 Apple stores in the area (possibly 4). We went to the 24 hour store. You can call in advance and get a personal shopper to assist you, for free. They overcharged for a RAM upgrade, but most stores do that. (My logic was that if I ordered some, and something was wrong with it, I'd hear about it for the next several weeks.)
They sell their equivalent of Office (iPages and iNumbers, I believe is the name) for around $80 which is basically compatible with Office and has a few things Office 2003 doesn't have.

Some folks have done comparisons, finding that spec-ing out an equivalent PC comes close in the price, and possibly even over it. They are certainly pricey. However, to the casual computer user, considering the amount of money they can save on virus protection, etc. the difference isn't as great as might be imagined.

I was, against my will, very impressed with the whole experience, and the fact that one of their attractive sales people remembered me when I went back had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. (She wasn't even our personal shopper, simply a concierge--they have three or four concierges at this store.)

I say against my will, because of what I said at the beginning--I do think they're evil. For the end user though, it's probably a choice of the lesser of two evils. And no, I wasn't going to get my wife to use Linux and/or BSD, I just don't have the energy.

[LaRoza]

Mmmmmmmmmmm.........quacamole is one of the greatest things on earth. I couldn't live without avacados. They're reasonably cheap here in Arizona.


They are easy to find, finding good ones is the trick. I just ate two of them in the past two days (store got a good batch).

[piousp]

Its the same situation here in Costa Rica (note that we are in the same continent as USA ). Everything is overpriced here.
I'm not going to comment anything over apple's prices. You see, i got insulted by a mac-fanboy in this very forum (or i felt offended).
I just didnt felt like reporting, but i swear to myslef i'm not going to ever critize again an apple product in front of a fanboy. Not worth my time anyways :popcorn:

[karellen]

It depends I would think. Where I live (Pennsylvania), avocados are expensive and rare (too bad I love them so much), but out in California, they are common and cheap. How much would an avocado cost in Romania? (I am guess you can't get them, as they are a South American and Mexican fruit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avocado)

I would also guess you Romanians (which almost came out Romulans) use less gas (Americans don't use "petrol") on average. The price of fuel is probably the same as in the USA for the use of it.

I think the medical care would be the same cost, or even less (I don't know the state of medical care in Romania). It would also depends on what medical treatment is being done.

As for Apple, I am not sure why they overprice their products so much. True, they have a "cult" effect, but they would be so much more popular if one could go into a store and see two "PC"'s with similiar hardware (except for the case and a few minor details) and OS X or Windows. I would be Mac's would be much more common, even if they kept everything else the same (the lock-in etc)

we have avocados here too :D, I'm not sure about the price, though I've done some research and seems it's aprox $1.5 for a piece
and about Apple, all the Apple users I know bought their macbooks from outside, via friends

[LaRoza]

we have avocados here too :D, I'm not sure about the price, though I've done some research and seems it's aprox $1.5 for a piece
and about Apple, all the Apple users I know bought their macbooks from outside, via friends

Yeah, but are they healthy and fresh? Are they available in most grocery stores (bonus for year round)? If they are, I am moving to Romania. A good avacodo is worth $1.50 each.

[lisati]

Clearly you've never seen there commercials.

Mac: Hi I'm a mac.

PC: And I'm a pc.

Mac clearly doesn't want to be just a pc. And they want to be expensive because those are the kinds of customers they like. They could make a budget computer if they really wanted.

Strange how the term PC gravitated to mean x86-based machines with an OS that has connections with Mr Gates. It's not always "politically correct" to say so about the "personal computer"

[karellen]

Yeah, but are they healthy and fresh? Are they available in most grocery stores (bonus for year round)? If they are, I am moving to Romania. A good avacodo is worth $1.50 each.

](*,) I really have no idea (but I don't think you'd like living here ;) )

[pbpersson]

Lots of people think things are better because they are more expensive. So for apple to maintain the belief that they are better than normal computers they have to be more expensive.

The price of fuel is going through the roof....families cannot afford to buy food and this winter they won't be able to afford heating oil.

Forget expensive......people need to make sure they are getting a good value and not getting ripped off. I would never go near a Mac just for that reason. I edit and burn music, convert and burn movies, create web sites - create computer software - and of course surf the web, create documents, send and receive email......

I don't need to spend twice as much money to buy something that is quiet or has special hinges.....PLEASE....

[karellen]

The price of fuel is going through the roof....families cannot afford to buy food and this winter they won't be able to afford heating oil.

Forget expensive......people need to make sure they are getting a good value and not getting ripped off. I would never go near a Mac just for that reason. I edit and burn music, convert and burn movies, create web sites - create computer software - and of course surf the web, create documents, send and receive email......

I don't need to spend twice as much money to buy something that is quiet or has special hinges.....PLEASE....

there will always be people willing to spend extra cash for the sake of a "premium product"

[prshah]

I really fail to understand why are apple products so expensive in my country
here are the prices from the official apple store for Romania:
... on the international apple store, they are much much cheaper

it's obvious
if someday I want an apple produc I'll make sure I'll order it from outside my country (even with shipping costs it will be a great save)


I think it may be because of import duties and air-shipping costs.

[LaRoza]

I think it may be because of import duties and air-shipping costs.

That magically doesn't effect PC's ;)

[piousp]

That magically doesn't effect PC's ;)


Here it does affect PCs. But odd enough apples are more affected by this ;)
On the other hand, avocados are really cheap ;)

[LaRoza]

On the other hand, avocados are really cheap ;)

Apples are expensive, but avocados are cheap?

[prshah]

I think it may be because of import duties and air-shipping costs.

That magically doesn't effect PC's ;)

In India, imported cars carry a heavy import duty. However, if you import them in a CKD (Completely Knocked Down) kit, the duty is either much reduced or waived.

Maybe they have something like that in Romania and elsewhere too? Apples (the computer, not the fruit) are imported whole, but PC's arrive in a CKD, are assembled (integrated) locally and then sent on to the customer?

Just rambling, anyway. I don't like conspiracy theories.

[the6step]

I edit and burn music, convert and burn movies, create web sites - create computer software - and of course surf the web, create documents, send and receive email......


pbpersoon, Modern day OS's.
Modern day OS's, pbpersoon.

Seriously all you need to create a website is a text editor and Subversion or an FTP, big deal. It's how you do it that makes all that extra difference.