Good Feelings About MS

[poofyhairguy]

I wanted to write this up because its been on my brain for a while.

It occurred to me the other day that twenty years down the line when MS is better known for its game machines or set top boxes, I will miss the years of MS's desktop reign. Why? Because of the fact that MS has pushed a platform more than a product, and that has created a huge bunch of slack that us nerds all run through even if we have never used an MS product.

Us nerds hate the thought, but one day you have to realize that the personal computer is going to die. The desktop as we know it will end one day- for many reasons.

1. Most users hate complicated computers (aka as they are now). The complication that make our lives fun make computers suck for them. If they had the choice, most computer users would prefer a web browsing/game playing/ checkbook balancing/ word processing appliance. Really. The complication that allows us to do crazy things with computers also allows computers to have many security problems and makes them hard to learn for most of the computer market.

2. The non MS OSes are heading towards and appliance future. I know an Apple fan is going to kill me for this, but I its obvious to me that Apple is moving towards a future where there products are marketed as appliances. Look at the adds for their new iMac and iPod video- its almost as if they are selling an entertainment appliance rather than a personal computer. And since Apple has made the most money it ever has off of its VERY successful music appliance (iPod) they will probably continue down this path in the future with all their products. And, even though many will hate to admit it here, Linux really works best as an appliance OS. It rules in TiVos, Cell Phones, or wireless routers. Even as a desktop OS, for a non-nerd users it works best as a web browsing/media playing/ document creating appliance. Every person I have converted has been because Ubuntu (after I set it up) "just works" like an appliance for them. The medium level users I have shown it too dislike it lack of flexibility- the flexibility they know exists on MS’s platform. Either things are really easy in Ubuntu (installing a program from synaptic) or really hard (compiling program from source code) just like it is with many appliances (you can do amazing things with TiVos and Xboxs if you hack them.)

3. Hardware makers would prefer appliances. First because that would take some of the speed emphasis away (which would be great for Intel as they hit a speed wall right now) and second because they could sell a machine for each task: One for modern games, one for documents and web browsing, one for making cellular calls. Thats a lot of hardware bought! Also it keeps the media companies off their back.

4. Media companies HATE multipurpose computers. They want platforms, appliances, were you pay to use/see/enjoy ANY of their media and where you legally own none of it (pay to play). And they are willing to use all their bought and paid for senators/congresspeople to make this happen and to force it onto the world. The fear of their power partially drives trusted computing. It WILL eventually be the force that gets the broadcast flag through congress. They are the gatekeepers to the masses, so eventually they will get their way.

Am I predicted the absolute end to multipurpose machines? No, there will always be nerds and hackers that will do what they want with the appliances they buy. But one day soon in my part of the world such hacking will be illegal. The amazing flexibility will be illegal, because the same rules that allows a computer to do 1000 different things allows a few of those things to be breaking the law. Eventually the powerful governments of the world WILL catch up, eventually enough laws will be on the books to drive the "dark net" far underground, maybe even off most maps.

What does this have to do with MS? I mean, they are HELPING this transition right? Vista will have this crap in it, and it will be the first step to lock down the rights correct?

Yes. But there is two important points to be made about that:

1. Currently XP is the most flexible platform of all time. I'm not talking about how a nerd can hack on it, I'm talking about the many things you can do with it. You CANNOT do some things on Linux that you can do on XP. Because MS started out pushing the platform instead of the product, its out of their hands! Its really flexible and confusing, which is a great computer market for us nerds. If IBM or Apple would have won the desktop war, we might be on computing appliances right now that only run Ubuntu because we hacked them to. Maybe not, but maybe so. We can never truly know, but it something to think about.

2. People that hate MS will find this reason more comfortable. MS is great because they are idiots. Really. Compare what you can do with an Xbox to what you can do with a Playstation 2 or a Gamecube. MS it seems cannot put out a product that is anymore than a play toy to hackers. No matter how hard they try, they can never seem to outsmart us in the community. Its like the company is mentally challenged sometimes. But for us nerds it a good thing. I means that someone WILL strip all the DRM out of Vista, one day someone WILL find a way around its famous high def lockout. If MS moves with the market when it because one of computing appliances, the MS one WILL be the easiest to hack/crack/put Linux on. You can almost bet on it. MS's ignorance and incompetence creates this HUGE chasm in which us nerds will be able to play for as long as they are on the scene. Their single minded nature keeps them from locking things down the way a much smarter company like Sony can/does. Some days I root for HD-DVD over blue ray because I KNOW that it will be easier to crack and get working on Linux boxes. How do I know? MS is behind it, that’s how!

So I can imagine a future when I look back at the ages of MS and miss what I had. I will miss Limewire, I will miss Playstation emulators, I will miss pirated software, I will miss playing every type of media under the sun for free. I know that the future computing appliances might allow this stuff, but it will be for the "totally fair" price of my soul and a days worth of work (yes I was poking fun at the acceptance of Apple's iTunes DRM). I will miss a platform that is such chaos I could install Linux on its machines without being an illegal hacker.

I will miss the age of MS, the age when the nerd was king.

You can disagree with me. Most here will I bet. But I see no other future except the one handed to me by the corporate master called Disney and Time Warner, and they HATE computer as they are now! Only MS and its idiot nature stands in their way I think.

Ok. Now I feel better. Proceed to chew me out!

[xequence]

Wow, that was one awesome philosophical (spelled wrong) tech rant/post.

It really made me think. And if I cant have pirated software, pirated music, etc on my computer it leaves me with one thing... Web browsing, which would make it an appliance.

[poofyhairguy]

Wow, that was one awesome philosophical (spelled wrong) tech rant/post.

Thanks.


It really made me think. And if I cant have pirated software, pirated music, etc on my computer it leaves me with one thing... Web browsing, which would make it an appliance.

Yeah, it all hit me last week when I booted into XP to play a pirated game in ePSXe (since ePSXe won't work with Breezy for some reason and I don't want to downgrade to Hoary for one thing).

[brentoboy]

Sometimes I wish "other people's" computers were just unpack and play applicances that had an ethernet jack in the back, and gave them a browser and some real basic "just works" stuff.

Your right, a PC is a powerful thing. And with great power, comes ... inability to use the thing, unless you have knowledge.

If "Browser Boxes" were out there, I'd recommend them to people (just to get them to leave me alone) But I would hate to see the cost of the "real man's PC" go up because they arent people's primary computer.

[BoyOfDestiny]

The future you describe disturbs me.
Hopefully even joe blo will get pissed off.
A boycott worked with those horrible divx players (not the codec! the phone-home player from circuit city) that are now extinct!

Not to mention these guys make mistakes with DRM too (software has bugs everywhere).
Just like those people who got locked out of their office xp, while on an airplane, and couldn't save their work... bwahaha.

Is it me, or is the scenario you describe basically the USA. I can see some other countries not adopting this.

[blastus]

Yeah, it all hit me last week when I booted into XP to play a pirated game in ePSXe (since ePSXe won't work with Breezy for some reason and I don't want to downgrade to Hoary for one thing).

Yar, a pirate comes out of the closet (a forum staff member too!) :)

Here's one version of the future 50 years from now:

Microsoft will continue to assimilate/annilate all companies that have anything to do with manufacturing computing technology (hardware and software.) This technology includes computers, multimedia devices, home theater systems, gaming systems, multipurpose "computing" appliances etc... They may come a day where the only such technology you can buy will be from Microsoft. Microsoft will create more and more closed-platforms on all kinds of devices and they will continue to fight anything that is "open."

The U.S. government has shown no interest in regulating Microsoft. They see Microsoft too important to U.S. world domination to do anything. Therefore I predict the U.S. will continue to do absolutely nothing. The consequence is that Microsoft will continue to control, manipulate, and stifle the North American technology industry any way they see fit in increasing monopolistic economic power. Other world governments, however, in the interest of national sovereignty, free markets and healthy competition, will not allow Microsoft to control their technology industries.

The cumulative force of foreign technology and the worldwide resistance of foreign governments against U.S./Microsoft, will create a fertile ground for foreign technology to advance beyond that of the U.S./Microsoft. Eventually the U.S. technology industry as we know it, will be completely controlled by Microsoft. This will result in the end of U.S. domination of technology and the U.S. will eventually become a technologically backwards nation, incapable of competing in foreign technology markets.

Unfortunately, the U.S. will bring Canada down with it, unless Canada wakes up and realizes that it needs, can contribute to, and can be a part of the super-advanced European and foreign technology industries. The U.S. government, however, will be incapable of stopping Microsoft because they will have set precedent after precedent after precedent of taking no action and showing no interest in regulating Microsoft. At this point, Microsoft will have successfully and legally hand-tied the U.S. government. Ultimately, Microsoft will lead to the demise of the U.S. economy, because ultimately they will control it.

[skirkpatrick]

The thing is, browser boxes WERE out there. Doesn't anybody remember the settop Internet boxes that allowed you to surf the net, check your email, and listen to online music? They died because they charged too much for the service and you couldn't do anything else with them.

[drizek]

Yeah, it all hit me last week when I booted into XP to play a pirated game in ePSXe (since ePSXe won't work with Breezy for some reason and I don't want to downgrade to Hoary for one thing).
so you downgraded to xp instead?:confused: :confused: :confused:

;)

anyway, i agree with you, to a point. i dont think MS are idiots like you say. i think that there are two forces in MS that are fighting each other. In one corner you have the money hungry greedy bastards that only care about the bottom line, and in the other corner you have the nerds who are more simililair to you and me than they are to ballmer and gates.

ive been accused of being an apple h8er many times, but that is not true. Yes, they make some nice products, but like you said, they are consumer products, not nerd products. same with sony. i cant stand either one of them. its easy to get caught up in the "oooh, look at the transparency" hype, but a few years from now it will come back and bite us all in the ***. these are companies that put money>style>function. linux seems to be the exact opposite, and thats why i like it. i dont want a friggen ipod, i want a pocket pc which i can overclock and install bittorrent on. i dont want an ibook, i want a pc. not because it looks better, or has better build qulaity or is easier to use. i want a pc notebook because i want to undervolt the cpu to get more battery life, overclock the video card, sextuple(sp) boot windows xp, vista, tiger x86, kubuntu, suse and pc-bsd on. i want my friggen freedom damn it.

the thing i fear most though is the commercialization of linux. im not talking suse/red hat commercialization, im talking AOL, bonzi buddy type crap. its going to suck. they ruin everything and they will continue to do so. ive been to the cinema twice this year, and the worst part is that i havent pirated ANYTHING. thats how bad movies today are. same with TV, i cant stand it. commercials ALL THE FRIGGEN TIME. The internet has already caught the "capitalist bug" and linux will too eventually. if you think linspire is dumbed down, bloated, castrated and a ripoff now, just wait a few years for some seriously terrible linux distros(that said, i think linspire is a good distro and would hate for it to die. but its as low as ANY linux should go.). hopefully though, we can stay just one step ahead of the bastards. new technologies are coming out every day, well always find a way to **** away our free time. :D

[Brunellus]

The future you describe disturbs me.
Hopefully even joe blo will get pissed off.
A boycott worked with those horrible divx players (not the codec! the phone-home player from circuit city) that are now extinct!

Not to mention these guys make mistakes with DRM too (software has bugs everywhere).
Just like those people who got locked out of their office xp, while on an airplane, and couldn't save their work... bwahaha.

Is it me, or is the scenario you describe basically the USA. I can see some other countries not adopting this.
The average user will not even notice the difference. this is the genius of the strategy.

I happen to think that poofy might be right. And if he is, I will have to bow out of the computing hobby eventually, because my skills and available time will not be equal to the task of hacking ever more tightly controlled hardware.

As to the non-adoption by some countries, that's going to be an interesting question. The biggest divergence in intellectual property law and theory seems to be forming between the European Union and United States. The EU is moving away from Software patents, while the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office has recently struck down a long-standing restriction that patentable subject matter must be restricted to "technological arts."

The only way to correct this in the US would be positive legislation, but I'm not holding my breath.

[drizek]

positive legistaltion in the US?

ya, theyll put that in between the Patriot Act 3 and the Kinda Clean Air Act.

[BoyOfDestiny]

The average user will not even notice the difference. this is the genius of the strategy.

I happen to think that poofy might be right. And if he is, I will have to bow out of the computing hobby eventually, because my skills and available time will not be equal to the task of hacking ever more tightly controlled hardware.

As to the non-adoption by some countries, that's going to be an interesting question. The biggest divergence in intellectual property law and theory seems to be forming between the European Union and United States. The EU is moving away from Software patents, while the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office has recently struck down a long-standing restriction that patentable subject matter must be restricted to "technological arts."

The only way to correct this in the US would be positive legislation, but I'm not holding my breath.

The thing is I think the average user may notice.
For example if there is a pay to play thing, they may remember something called the VCR? Remember when you could just record and play back for free?
For a realistic example, copying music from one machine to another. Would be nice to do that gratis right? Especially when it was just for backup. Ask someone how things went before apple "fixed up" it's drm.

As for the EU, I'm kind of dissapointed with the whole business about reverse engineering and no more ripping your own cds. Government has the same "opening" there as in the U.S. (I will try and avoid diverging the topic too much, but I mean $$$ by certain groups)
This may be opinion on my part (feel free to take it with a grain of salt), but I'm certain we have not seen the last of software patents in europe...

I can definitely see more set top box consumer type device things. I think at one point that might be the better choice.
That is, I want my PC, my general purpose beast. If I must watch/play some restricted format, I rather just have a seperate player...
That is me not everyone... But I hope I'm not alone :)

[poofyhairguy]

The future you describe disturbs me.
Hopefully even joe blo will get pissed off.
A boycott worked with those horrible divx players (not the codec! the phone-home player from circuit city) that are now extinct!

The boycott did not kill Divx I don't think. Nerds like to think that but I'm pretty sure that its not true. What killed divx was that only Circuit City pushed it. If it the discs would have been sold at Bestbuy, Walmart, Amazon.com, etc. they would still exist today I bet.


Not to mention these guys make mistakes with DRM too (software has bugs everywhere).
Just like those people who got locked out of their office xp, while on an airplane, and couldn't save their work... bwahaha.

Ah, but don't you see? You help prove my point. To that person who's Office XP screwed them, the problem is not that "MS sucks" or "Lock-in sucks," its that "All computer suck! Why can't they just work?" Your example is one I could use to show why computing appliances would be more popular with average users.


Is it me, or is the scenario you describe basically the USA. I can see some other countries not adopting this.

One large problem with my nation is that it pushes it ideology all over the world. Countried might not play ball, but then they will not get US investment and they will not get "help" from the World Bank that is pretty much controlled by the US.

You are correct that maybe a nation like China could find away around this, but I would not consider such places beacons of hope for technology (Great Firewall of Chine anyone?)

[poofyhairguy]

The thing is, browser boxes WERE out there. Doesn't anybody remember the settop Internet boxes that allowed you to surf the net, check your email, and listen to online music? They died because they charged too much for the service and you couldn't do anything else with them.

They died because they came too soon. I remember them.
.
They had two essential problems:

1. They worked with TV instead of monitors- reading wep pages at such low resolutions sucked. Now that high def TV's will be the future, this is less of a problem.

2. They were underpowered. MS pushed that junk way too early and they couldn't even do basic multitasking. They existed in a personal computer market that was very immature. Now thats its grown up some, we know basically the top five or so tasks users want and the $300 Dell has enough power to do all of them.

Yet MS invested a lot in that market for a reason. They lost $2 billion on the Xbox for a reason. They see the writing on the wall and they want to test the future waters!

[poofyhairguy]

Yar, a pirate comes out of the closet (a forum staff member too!) :)

I do not hide it. I do not take pride in it, but I do not hide it.


Here's one version of the future 50 years from now:

Microsoft will continue to assimilate/annilate all companies that have anything to do with manufacturing computing technology (hardware and software.) This technology includes computers, multimedia devices, home theater systems, gaming systems, multipurpose "computing" appliances etc... They may come a day where the only such technology you can buy will be from Microsoft. Microsoft will create more and more closed-platforms on all kinds of devices and they will continue to fight anything that is "open."

The U.S. government has shown no interest in regulating Microsoft. They see Microsoft too important to U.S. world domination to do anything. Therefore I predict the U.S. will continue to do absolutely nothing. The consequence is that Microsoft will continue to control, manipulate, and stifle the North American technology industry any way they see fit in increasing monopolistic economic power. Other world governments, however, in the interest of national sovereignty, free markets and healthy competition, will not allow Microsoft to control their technology industries.

The cumulative force of foreign technology and the worldwide resistance of foreign governments against U.S./Microsoft, will create a fertile ground for foreign technology to advance beyond that of the U.S./Microsoft. Eventually the U.S. technology industry as we know it, will be completely controlled by Microsoft. This will result in the end of U.S. domination of technology and the U.S. will eventually become a technologically backwards nation, incapable of competing in foreign technology markets.

Unfortunately, the U.S. will bring Canada down with it, unless Canada wakes up and realizes that it needs, can contribute to, and can be a part of the super-advanced European and foreign technology industries. The U.S. government, however, will be incapable of stopping Microsoft because they will have set precedent after precedent after precedent of taking no action and showing no interest in regulating Microsoft. At this point, Microsoft will have successfully and legally hand-tied the U.S. government. Ultimately, Microsoft will lead to the demise of the U.S. economy, because ultimately they will control it.

Quite possible and depressing as well. I would hope this thread would bring out such opinions from other forums members!

[poofyhairguy]

so you downgraded to xp instead?:confused: :confused: :confused:

;)

Nope, I booted back after a little Final Fantasy. I might but Hoary on a parition justfor that reason....maybe my NTFS parition? :)


anyway, i agree with you, to a point. i dont think MS are idiots like you say. i think that there are two forces in MS that are fighting each other. In one corner you have the money hungry greedy bastards that only care about the bottom line, and in the other corner you have the nerds who are more simililair to you and me than they are to ballmer and gates.

Well, its not all fools over there. Sometimes Officedoes not suck, and is obvious a few of the managers (at least at one point) has some business sense. Its just that they do want absolute control like Sony does with its products.


ive been accused of being an apple h8er many times, but that is not true. Yes, they make some nice products, but like you said, they are consumer products, not nerd products. same with sony. i cant stand either one of them. its easy to get caught up in the "oooh, look at the transparency" hype, but a few years from now it will come back and bite us all in the ***. these are companies that put money>style>function. linux seems to be the exact opposite, and thats why i like it. i dont want a friggen ipod, i want a pocket pc which i can overclock and install bittorrent on. i dont want an ibook, i want a pc. not because it looks better, or has better build qulaity or is easier to use. i want a pc notebook because i want to undervolt the cpu to get more battery life, overclock the video card, sextuple(sp) boot windows xp, vista, tiger x86, kubuntu, suse and pc-bsd on. i want my friggen freedom damn it.

I agree. I feel guilty because I have an iPod (it as a gift though), but I agree.


the thing i fear most though is the commercialization of linux. im not talking suse/red hat commercialization, im talking AOL, bonzi buddy type crap. its going to suck. they ruin everything and they will continue to do so. ive been to the cinema twice this year, and the worst part is that i havent pirated ANYTHING. thats how bad movies today are. same with TV, i cant stand it. commercials ALL THE FRIGGEN TIME. The internet has already caught the "capitalist bug" and linux will too eventually. if you think linspire is dumbed down, bloated, castrated and a ripoff now, just wait a few years for some seriously terrible linux distros(that said, i think linspire is a good distro and would hate for it to die. but its as low as ANY linux should go.). hopefully though, we can stay just one step ahead of the bastards. new technologies are coming out every day, well always find a way to **** away our free time. :D


I plan to stick around till you need a "trusted" machine to get on the internet. Then I'm out, with a new hobby (the books on my shelf).

[poofyhairguy]

The thing is I think the average user may notice.

I agree. The average user will notice, long after its too late to fight back!


For example if there is a pay to play thing, they may remember something called the VCR?

Yep, they remember the VCR. It was the thing that blinked "12:00" at them all the time till they replaced it with a $30 DVD player!


Remember when you could just record and play back for free?

They will miss that ability when TiVo has been crushed out of existance (or is turned into another "trusted" computer). They will miss the ability to download all they want from Limewire. But I say by the time they notice it will be to late! It will be after they have already bought their first computing appliance! Then it will be "oh well, lets see whats in the iTunes store!"


For a realistic example, copying music from one machine to another. Would be nice to do that gratis right? Especially when it was just for backup. Ask someone how things went before apple "fixed up" it's drm.

Most people do not know what DRM is. Plus, nerds like you and I overestimate the want for backups. Before DVDscame out, I thought "no one will buy that, you can record on it like a VCR," but now DVDs (its its DRM that is illegal to get around in my nation) are king and only one player out of a thousand sold have DVDRs built in!


I can definitely see more set top box consumer type device things. I think at one point that might be the better choice.

If we nerds can admit that, they maybe we can face such doom with pride!


That is, I want my PC, my general purpose beast. If I must watch/play some restricted format, I rather just have a seperate player...
That is me not everyone... But I hope I'm not alone :)

You are not.

[BoyOfDestiny]

The boycott did not kill Divx I don't think. Nerds like to think that but I'm pretty sure that its not true. What killed divx was that only Circuit City pushed it. If it the discs would have been sold at Bestbuy, Walmart, Amazon.com, etc. they would still exist today I bet.



Ah, but don't you see? You help prove my point. To that person who's Office XP screwed them, the problem is not that "MS sucks" or "Lock-in sucks," its that "All computer suck! Why can't they just work?" Your example is one I could use to show why computing appliances would be more popular with average users.



One large problem with my nation is that it pushes it ideology all over the world. Countried might not play ball, but then they will not get US investment and they will not get "help" from the World Bank that is pretty much controlled by the US.

You are correct that maybe a nation like China could find away around this, but I would not consider such places beacons of hope for technology (Great Firewall of Chine anyone?)

I do think DIVX was killed by the majority not buying it. The thought of not being able to take the disc to someone elses house and play it (even if they have legit divx) player, having a limited time to play the disc, having a limited amount of times it could be played. Having the machine hooked to a phone line 24/7
It was ridiculous during this "era" I was there dammit. The hypothetical case of mass distribution and blind purchasing, maybe it would have taken off? But I doubt it.

http://money.cnn.com/1998/12/11/technology/divx/

Okay from here on in this is opinion too. :)
There was virtually no "product activation" and copy protection seemed to be dying down in the mid 90's.

As for people saying computers suck, for PC's windows gets the blame. Even in the old days, dammit DOS froze! Windows sucks! Even now we have linux sucks! Yet, I rarely (read as never) have heard anyone say damn AMD, their chip makes windows reboot! Intel (well ok that one time with floating point...). When you boot your windows machine, the splash screen has windows on it, lots ms apps have Microsoft written as a prefix. Unless the wintel box literally has MS written on it, I think most will blame MS and windows, not intel. I think the hardware and software would have to blurred together for people to hate the whole system (no offense to mac users out there, but I normally hear macs suck, not apple, not mac os)

And yeah I agree about China, that is a sad last hope for a free software haven...

Anyway I guess that's all I'll say about it... Not very productive to argue with opinions... Anyway, let's enjoy what we have :)

Take care.

[poptones]

Uhhhhh... I think some of you might need to get out more. VCRs are pretty much dead and divx definitely died on circuit city' shelves, but there are STILL people out there using webTV. I know one fellow who would still be on it except he discovered a website selling pictures of a pretty young girl and he had no place to store his downloaded collection with webtv, so he went out and bought a PC running XP. He still hates it and wishes it was as easy to use as webtv, but he wants his girlie pix.

I lurk in many newsgroups and I still see posts from webtv users - often complaining about people posting images in yenc and in rar archives. Amazingly enough, there are still people who love their webtv. These are not trailer park alcoholics, these are fairly smart and well off people who simply don't care about learning to use a desktop computer.

You're also selling a lot of it short. CPUs will soon have virtualization built in which will allow runing windows, linux and whatever else you want all on the same hardware at the same time. At that point what does it matter if Virgin requires you to run windows media player 6000? You'll be ab;le to download it free from the windows media player site all bundled in its own runtime environment, where it (and the rottenware it will likely attract) can be contained on your PC in its own virtualized sandbox.

The desktop pc isn't going away, it's only going to evolve. I have my doubts, however, about some geeks being able to do the same.

[drizek]

whats an amd?

[poofyhairguy]

I do think DIVX was killed by the majority not buying it. The thought of not being able to take the disc to someone elses house and play it (even if they have legit divx) player, having a limited time to play the disc, having a limited amount of times it could be played. Having the machine hooked to a phone line 24/7
It was ridiculous during this "era" I was there dammit. The hypothetical case of mass distribution and blind purchasing, maybe it would have taken off? But I doubt it.

http://money.cnn.com/1998/12/11/technology/divx/

I remember them. I remember why they suck. But after watching the market eat up those "Universal Media" or whatever movies on the PSP at 20 BUCKS a pop, I believe that with greater marketing they would still be around.

(nothing was more depressing that being in Hastings the other day looking as used Anime disks when I overhear a girl tell her friends "Hey! Its a little movie disk! Those are SOOO cool. My friend has one, and on his PSP this little disc plays a WHOLE movie. I want a PSP so I can get these." The nerd in me wanted to scream "I have been watching whole movies on my pocket PC for years and a 1 gig memory card and the device needed to doit costs way less than a PSP, plus I am not locked into a stupid format!" But then I saw a used copy of Escaflowne so I got distracted!)


Okay from here on in this is opinion too. :)
There was virtually no "product activation" and copy protection seemed to be dying down in the mid 90's.

Yep. That is what I called "the time before large broadband penetration freaked the media companies out."


As for people saying computers suck, for PC's windows gets the blame. Even in the old days, dammit DOS froze! Windows sucks! Even now we have linux sucks! Yet, I rarely (read as never) have heard anyone say damn AMD, their chip makes windows reboot! Intel (well ok that one time with floating point...). When you boot your windows machine, the splash screen has windows on it, lots ms apps have Microsoft written as a prefix. Unless the wintel box literally has MS written on it, I think most will blame MS and windows, not intel.

Um....many people I talk to think that Microsoft Windows is an essential part of their Dell. They call knowing about Windows "being smart with a computer" and they often claim that they wish they new more about computers (aka they wish they could clean their own spyware). To almost everyone I know, the Windows is the only way a computer could be. If they know about Linux.....nevermind I only met one non nerd that knew what Linux was. Ok, if they know about Apple they don't think "thats another kind of personal computer" they think "those are expensive machines for artistic people."


I think the hardware and software would have to blurred together for people to hate the whole system (no offense to mac users out there, but I normally hear macs suck, not apple, not mac os)

To many people there is no line between the two. The hardware and software is part of the same package. Sometimes I think the reason Apple does not sell generic copies of OSX is because it would blow too many minds for people to discover their computer could NOT have Windows on them (then I remember its because the control of hardware is what makes Macs so special).



Anyway I guess that's all I'll say about it... Not very productive to argue with opinions...

Arguing is almost never fun, but discussion can be! And posting in the community chat of a Linux forum should be the dictionary definition of non productive! :)


Anyway, let's enjoy what we have :)


Agreed. This might never come to pass. I really hope I am wrong. I was wrong about DVDs and I hope I am wrong again. And no one can take our computers away from us. I will always have this old Pentium 4. It will always be ready to play every Snes game that ever existed (yay for torrents).

But we nerds need to realize that the market caters to us now. Its our world- a new wild west so to speak. But just like radio (once a wild west) and many other forums of media, it will one day no longer be a market that caters to the ethusiasts. And we need to learn to deal with that.

See you at the store in 2008 (or whenever it is) when we are all buying the most powerful AMD system that is released before the first AMD system where Trusted Computing is turned on inside!

[BoyOfDestiny]

Uhhhhh... I think some of you might need to get out more. VCRs are pretty much dead and divx definitely died on circuit city' shelves, but there are STILL people out there using webTV. I know one fellow who would still be on it except he discovered a website selling pictures of a pretty young girl and he had no place to store his downloaded collection with webtv, so he went out and bought a PC running XP. He still hates it and wishes it was as easy to use as webtv, but he wants his girlie pix.

I lurk in many newsgroups and I still see posts from webtv users - often complaining about people posting images in yenc and in rar archives. Amazingly enough, there are still people who love their webtv. These are not trailer park alcoholics, these are fairly smart and well off people who simply don't care about learning to use a desktop computer.

You're also selling a lot of it short. CPUs will soon have virtualization built in which will allow runing windows, linux and whatever else you want all on the same hardware at the same time. At that point what does it matter if Virgin requires you to run windows media player 6000? You'll be ab;le to download it free from the windows media player site all bundled in its own runtime environment, where it (and the rottenware it will likely attract) can be contained on your PC in its own virtualized sandbox.

The desktop pc isn't going away, it's only going to evolve. I have my doubts, however, about some geeks being able to do the same.

Well, not everyone has cash out the wazoo, so they still have a VCR (ok I admit to still having mine). Alright I admit to having a DVD player too. Tapes definitely predate webtv. I can assure you there are more people out there with VCR's than with webtv (actually I was surprised webtv was still around, I hadn't heard a thing about it... yeah yeah VCR, I still see tapes on shelves in the outside world.)

As for virtualization and all that wizardry, that would require a copy of windows (or mulitple copies!). This goes along with what you said if virgin requires media player 6000? Why bother with the open alternatives right (or use wine)? I don't want to buy windows anymore. I don't want to steal it. I want to run free software as often as possible (and yes even to use non-free things like my DVDs, various games, etc).
Again it's my perogative, some people may delight in having a propreitary os and a quick swap to alternative environments.
However, multiple OS's with single/multiple users (same or diff passwords), who put the file where? What permission and pass? Sounds like a hassle. I don't think the average user would enjoy those options.
Even as a geek, the thought of running more than 2 os's at once is a bit intimidating.

As for the PC evolving, that's exactly what poofy was talking about. It will evolve to a point where it isn't a pc anymore (personal computer). It merely becomes an appliance.

[drizek]

we have one VCR in this house(we moved, so all the stuff we own was bought past 2001) and ELEVEN different dvd players. no clue in hell how or why we have that many, but...

[BoyOfDestiny]

we have one VCR in this house(we moved, so all the stuff we own was bought past 2001) and ELEVEN different dvd players. no clue in hell how or why we have that many, but...

LOL. All with the same region encoding? Anyway, time for ebay man!

[poptones]

As for virtualization and all that wizardry, that would require a copy of windows (or mulitple copies!). This goes along with what you said if virgin requires media player 6000? Why bother with the open alternatives right (or use wine)? I don't want to buy windows anymore. I don't want to steal it. I want to run free software as often as possible (and yes even to use non-free things like my DVDs, various games, etc).

OK, let's try this again....

Microsoft in itself does nto care one whit about DRM. Yes, they throw a fit about people using their operating system without paying for it, but the fact is it was piracy that MADE THEM the "ubiquitous solution" they have become and it is piracy that helps them to this day foster that same environment in those countries where IP laws are not strictly enforced. But Microsoft MUST be seen enforcing its copyrights here and abroad lest they be prone to protectionist and anti-dumping laws. If you are a monopolist you cannot be seen as "giving away" your product when doing so essentially kills any potential competitors out of the door.

But DRM is demaned by the prroducers of content which will drive the adoption of the microsoft platform into more products, so MS has to provide a solution for these potential licensees. Microsoft wants WM9 to be part of every new video player. They want WM9 content to be beamed in form satellites and distributed on closed cable ppv networks - because all those licensed royalties are basically free money.

In that world MS can give away its product. When a computer can run ten operating systems all at once and those applications can all communicate via encrypted network protocols using technologies based on XML and such, applications move beyond today's model. In that world an "applications" can be essentially a self contained box - an entire embedded runtime system. If your windows media player becomes sick because of microsoft's poor design it is not going to infect your web server application and your linux desktop application and your video editing application, because those all run in their own environemtns with their own host operating system.

there is no need to buy windows to run windows media player 202o, because the widnows you need is built into the product - you just download this self contaiend system, give it a partition of space, and let fly. Microsoft isn't going to charge you for that because they want everyone to have their media player - because the people who use it will be purchasing content from technology partners like Sony and Buena Vista and Viacom. .

[Malphas]

If the PC completely evolves into appliances then what are software engineers going to use?

[poofyhairguy]

This


Microsoft in itself does nto care one whit about DRM.

and this


But DRM is demaned by the prroducers of content which will drive the adoption of the microsoft platform into more products, so MS has to provide a solution for these potential licensees.

Are basically my thesis. The devil you know (Ole easy to crack MS products) is better than the devil you don't (Sony's super hard to crack products). MS is not a media company. That means they will try to strike a balance between what THEIR customers want- "tons of free media"- and what the content companies want - "pay everytime you even think about our media"- rather than just doing what the media companies want.

[BoyOfDestiny]

OK, let's try this again....

Microsoft in itself does nto care one whit about DRM. Yes, they throw a fit about people using their operating system without paying for it, but the fact is it was piracy that MADE THEM the "ubiquitous solution" they have become and it is piracy that helps them to this day foster that same environment in those countries where IP laws are not strictly enforced. But Microsoft MUST be seen enforcing its copyrights here and abroad lest they be prone to protectionist and anti-dumping laws. If you are a monopolist you cannot be seen as "giving away" your product when doing so essentially kills any potential competitors out of the door.

But DRM is demaned by the prroducers of content which will drive the adoption of the microsoft platform into more products, so MS has to provide a solution for these potential licensees. Microsoft wants WM9 to be part of every new video player. They want WM9 content to be beamed in form satellites and distributed on closed cable ppv networks - because all those licensed royalties are basically free money.

In that world MS can give away its product. When a computer can run ten operating systems all at once and those applications can all communicate via encrypted network protocols using technologies based on XML and such, applications move beyond today's model. In that world an "applications" can be essentially a self contained box - an entire embedded runtime system. If your windows media player becomes sick because of microsoft's poor design it is not going to infect your web server application and your linux desktop application and your video editing application, because those all run in their own environemtns with their own host operating system.

there is no need to buy windows to run windows media player 202o, because the widnows you need is built into the product - you just download this self contaiend system, give it a partition of space, and let fly. Microsoft isn't going to charge you for that because they want everyone to have their media player - because the people who use it will be purchasing content from technology partners like Sony and Buena Vista and Viacom. .

"No."
Microsoft does care about DRM, regardless whether or not they care about piracy.

Product Activation, Windows Genuine Advantage, Palladium, TCPA, etc do these ring a bell? I don't think they stop piracy much at all, just inconvenience the legitimate user, and get him/her used to jumping through these hoops to use the system.

As for the 10 os's communicating, Office 12 XML has patents and is incompatible with GPL licenses.
To make 10 os's interoperate, you'd need a free open standard (since like Ubuntu, no way in hell will they pay for an mp3 license)
As for it being built in to the device and not having to pay for it, that's how it is now.
A laptop with linux or no os, may cost more than the same laptop with windows.
Not only that, but in the case of patents you are not required to license it to someone whom you do not want to have the license.

Intellectual Property is their main goal. The entertainment industry is small potatoes compared to the tech industry. MS does not need to bend over backwards to please them. They want to. It ensures their dominion.

[poofyhairguy]

If the PC completely evolves into appliances then what are software engineers going to use?

Same thing console game developers use-

development appliances!

[poptones]

We will never accept the world as the major media companies want it to be!

Who is this "we," white man?

How applications behave is up to the people who design and sell them. If you don't want your appliances tattling on you, I sure hope you do not have a telephone, tivo, or... hey, wait a minute! What are you doing online? You don't think that is anonymous, do you?

How many credit cards in your wallet, poofmeister?

[Malphas]

Same thing console game developers use-

development appliances!
Where did you get the idea that console game developers use anything other than regular PCs?

[BoyOfDestiny]

Where did you get the idea that console game developers use anything other than regular PCs?

That is the case. :P It was so for nes, snes, gb, gbc, and gba (for the most part).

Quick googling for gba dev-kit
"For software they mostly use GCC compiled for Thumb target (i.e. Thumb GCC) and the Gnu ASsembler (GAS). For hardware they mostly use an official Nintendo 64mbit flash cart(US$120), IS-AGB-Emulator(~US$6000), or IS-AGB-Debugger(~US$7000) from http://www.intsys.co.jp
SN Systems (http://www.snsys.com) is also releasing a GBA Dev setup soon. Other official developers may use different c compilers or GBA emulators. There is no current requirement that official tools must be used."

Actually these are the only ones I am aware of, and that's why I mention them. Also I belive the PS2 has a dev kit as well.

Nowadays I'm sure you can work on the PC too, but before it wasn't always an option...

[poofyhairguy]

Where did you get the idea that console game developers use anything other than regular PCs?

I know much development is done on PCs now. What I mean is now to develop for a particular console you need a development kit sent to you by the console maker to make the game (s):

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/dev/tools.htm

Its not that hard to imagine these kits growing to the point where ALL development is done on them. And then its not hard to imagine that when the appliance computer market starts to dominate, developers will have kits to develop for the individual appliances!

[BoyOfDestiny]

We will never accept the world as the major media companies want it to be!

Who is this "we," white man?

How applications behave is up to the people who design and sell them. If you don't want your appliances tattling on you, I sure hope you do not have a telephone, tivo, or... hey, wait a minute! What are you doing online? You don't think that is anonymous, do you?

How many credit cards in your wallet, poofmeister?

Ok, this post seems to go against the ubuntu spirit. I will respond to it politely though.

In poofy's message
He quotes you if I'm not mistaken.
"I have my doubts, however, about some geeks being able to do the same."

Poofy says
"We will never accept the world as the major media companies want it to be!"

Thus, the "we" refers to the geeks not willing to put up with this. Not everyone is a corporate fanboy.

As for the internet being anonymous, try TOR, or various proxies.

As for applications as those who design and sell 'em. That is totally off in the case of open source. Also you can use things differently. I could kill an ant with my telephone. It was not designed for it, but I can do it. Just as I could toss the MS set top box out the window.

[drizek]

sony sells a linux DVD/hdd/mouse/keyboard kit for the ps2. it is basically a 120 dollar PS2 SDK.

cool that they support linux, but its not for a selfless reason, thats for sure.

also, if they do something similair for hte ps3, that pretty mcuh guarantees support for bluray being built into the kernel by the middle of next year.

Edit: two bad things about the linux kit. first, it doesnt come with any 3d apps. second, it is no longer sold in north america.

[poofyhairguy]

How many credit cards in your wallet, poofmeister?

140000 and a half.

:0

Nah, i like cash.

[poofyhairguy]

also, if they do something similair for hte ps3, that pretty mcuh guarantees support for bluray being built into the kernel by the middle of next year.

The odds they will add what is needed to decrypt the content of the Blue-Ray media is slim to none.

Part of the reason they want a new format is because the DVD one is cracked!

[chimera]

The "old school" PC's (as in,NOT appliances) won't die as long as we have a worldwide community of users and developers dedicated to push it on. I think the decision to disaproove software patents in the EU pretty much paved the way for linux.I'm not sure how things'll be in the US,but you can always catch the first plane to europe,we have much lighter laws on imigration that USA anyway so that shouldn't be a problem.But yeah I agree it won't be long until MS dominates the US' IT economy and eventually the entire economy.

[poptones]

As for the internet being anonymous, try TOR, or various proxies.

Thie naivete of this comment is typical of many of your comments... how, for example, do you get "online" in order to use tor?

Tor is not anonymous. There are numerous exploits, many of which can be found articulated right on the tor website. In the simplest mode, the pool of tor gateways is known - it has to be in order for others to connect. Many hosts already refuse to accept connections from anyone using a tor proxy. It's easy to know who is doing this because the list is constantly updated right at the tor website.

There is no anonymity on the internet and there never was. It was all an illusion created by the then new paradigm of instant text only connectivity.

[MetalMusicAddict]

Nevermind. This wasnt needed here. ;)

[drizek]

The odds they will add what is needed to decrypt the content of the Blue-Ray media is slim to none.

Part of the reason they want a new format is because the DVD one is cracked!

oh, i thought you were talkinb about linux being able to read bluray dvds, not crack them. nm.

[xequence]

Yar, a pirate comes out of the closet (a forum staff member too!)

Honestly, what person that knows anything about technology DOESNT download music, movies, or games?

And about divx... Everyone uses Xvid for movies now.

[MetalMusicAddict]

And about divx... Everyone uses Xvid for movies now.
Sorry but so far with side buy side tests DivX still looks better with high bitrate movies. But we should get back to the topic. ;)

[bored2k]

And about divx... Everyone uses Xvid for movies now.Actually, real good quality movies are now being released using Matroska, which is quite superior than those two. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats

[Malphas]

Actually, real good quality movies are now being released using Matroska, which is quite superior than those two. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_container_formats
Matroska is just a container and has no bearing on the quality of the video or audio. DivX and XviD are video codecs which could be used to encode a video stream inside of a Matroska. H.264 codecs are where it's at right now, there is a opensource implementation, x264, but personally I still find it a little immature to use regularly at the moment.

[poptones]

And I do not know where you found someone who would state divx was higher quality than xvid... that hasn't been the case since I can remember. Divx might have a tiny edge at lower bit rates, but if you care about quality you are not going low bitrate - and at high bit rates divx cannot compete with xvid.

[Malphas]

And I do not know where you found someone who would state divx was higher quality than xvid... that hasn't been the case since I can remember. Divx might have a tiny edge at lower bit rates, but if you care about quality you are not going low bitrate - and at high bit rates divx cannot compete with xvid.
Agreed.

[BoyOfDestiny]

As for the internet being anonymous, try TOR, or various proxies.

Thie naivete of this comment is typical of many of your comments... how, for example, do you get "online" in order to use tor?

Tor is not anonymous. There are numerous exploits, many of which can be found articulated right on the tor website. In the simplest mode, the pool of tor gateways is known - it has to be in order for others to connect. Many hosts already refuse to accept connections from anyone using a tor proxy. It's easy to know who is doing this because the list is constantly updated right at the tor website.

There is no anonymity on the internet and there never was. It was all an illusion created by the then new paradigm of instant text only connectivity.

Fair enough. BTW Try going to a library and surfing. Doesn't get much more anonymous than that. Unless you start putting in names and passwords...

[mikedtemple]

Same thing console game developers use-

development appliances!

Scary thing is, if you ever read The Road Ahead by Bill Gates, he fully admits that the appliance market is the way he wants to go too. I think Poofyhairyguy is right on the button with his thesis. Appliances are going to be a big part of the future, and MS is too dumb to produce a secure enough product. My corrally to his thesis is: They do have a LOT of cash, though. They may just buy someone else out who does know how to produce secure appliances (or the Media content provider)...

Micro-Sony? Ugh.

[Teroedni]

One large problem with my nation is that it pushes it ideology all over the world. Countried might not play ball, but then they will not get US investment and they will not get "help" from the World Bank that is pretty much controlled by the US.

You are correct that maybe a nation like China could find away around this, but I would not consider such places beacons of hope for technology (Great Firewall of Chine anyone?)

Yes The USA push ideology on others , but here in Europe i dont se them getting stronger . I think The US is beginning to lose support i the European Nations. Eu is definitiv getting stonger. At the same time more contries begin to get more advanced technnology, and more aid to poor is being planned. Asia technology marvel grows and will definitiv make a big impact on World Economic.
I think we will see that USA lose a great deal of its economic powers to Asia.

Linux grows and will make pay for acess more difficult to.

[Teroedni]

At the rate the linux developmentare going we are gonna have an situation wher e we have a marvel of different computing distrubution.
A few of this will be big and popular . I think we will have distrubution specially designed for hardware companies like Dell Hp and Ibm which have their optimized linux distrubution for their hardware

Like sort of Severals Mac Aplle competitors;) if you get what i mean:)
Ms will not give up and will probably have to focuss on greater acces and be stable. I think Ms will get a hard time ;), but they will remain in the market.

[mstlyevil]

I wouldn't put to much stock in the power of the EU. A house divided against itself cannot stand and you do not get more divided than the EU. Asia will be the market that determines where technology goes in the future since they seem to be advancing faster in technology development than the rest of the world. At the moment Japaneese and Korean companies are partners with Microsoft and Sony Entertainment so they are the ones who will determine what appliances the rest of the world gets to use. The only bright spot in technology right now is those of us who build our own machines and do not let Sony-Microsoft determine what our machines can and cannot do.

[Malphas]

I still can't see appliances replacing PC's any time in the near future, there's too much demand for versatile computers for hardware manufacturers to simply ignore, and if they are railroaded into doing so then someone else will just crop up to replace them, that's what's good about capitalism.

On the other end of the scale you still have sizable amount of technophobes and other people who otherwise don't have the inclination to use anything more complex than a mobile phone or television set, who aren't going to want to use Media Centres or similar appliances.

[aysiu]

I could see it going either way or being a mix of general computers and appliances. I do know a handful of people who really just want an appliance that checks email and surfs the internet--that's it. However, I know a number of Windows users who like the extensibility of a general computer (one of the reasons, actually, that many people who try Linux end up going back to Windows--"such-and-such program has no equivalent in Linux"). The other day, among friends we were talking about sewing machines and how cool it is that there's a (you guessed it--Windows only) program that you can design patterns in, hook it up to your sewing machine, and the pattern gets sewn. People like random tack-on programs they can put on their computers--even if their general needs are simple.

But... people also like appliances. No one wants to have a computer that has a TV program, a washing machine program, and an alarm clock program. People do like having a bunch of appliances and one machine that's flexible and extensible, though. Not all people, but a lot of people.

[poofyhairguy]

I still can't see appliances replacing PC's any time in the near future, there's too much demand for versatile computers for hardware manufacturers to simply ignore, and if they are railroaded into doing so then someone else will just crop up to replace them, that's what's good about capitalism.

To bad the country I live in doesn't pratice capitalism in any real form.


On the other end of the scale you still have sizable amount of technophobes and other people who otherwise don't have the inclination to use anything more complex than a mobile phone or television set

Thanks for supporting my point. I call these people the majority. I say the computer appliances will be marketed to them. The applaicnes will come when its possible to have a cheap but powerful enough device to do the top three tasks or so of most computer users (word processing, web and email stuff, and simple games).

[kairu0]

positive legistaltion in the US?

ya, theyll put that in between the Patriot Act 3 and the Kinda Clean Air Act.

LOL. I wouldn't put that possibility out.

[poptones]

But... people also like appliances. No one wants to have a computer that has a TV program, a washing machine program, and an alarm clock program.

Ahhh... the washing machine program is impractical, but I do know at least one person who wants the other stuff. I have not owned a TV set since 2000 and I don't anticipate ever buying one again. I had my PC connected to directv for a couple of years after that but I've not even had a dish since 2001. When I need an alarm my PC wakes me up with whatever random choices it finds. In the other room sits a bunch of "appliances" (some of them pretty high end about five years ago) collecting dust.

Even on dialup I can enjoy the two or three shows a week I enjoy (BsG season 2 is only up to ep 4 on my home network - but it sure was a good one. I can hardly wait the three days before the next episode gets here...)

The computer programmed serger is one example of cool apps that will really only be common in linux once linux becomes more common in homes. An affordable computer programmed loom would also be awesome. Think about it: you go buy the yarn of your choice, download the pattern, and your home appliance produces a garment custom made to your specifications in minutes instead of months (http://www.ggcreations.com.au/knit/dmusk.html).

Distributed manufacturing like that is what will tip the balance in this "new world economy." When the boutique in town can produce a custom garment for you at a price that is competitive with mass manufactured goods, imports become more expensive to ship than they are worth.

Opps... little sidetrack there.

[BoyOfDestiny]

<snip>
Distributed manufacturing like that is what will tip the balance in this "new world economy." When the boutique in town can produce a custom garment for you at a price that is competitive with mass manufactured goods, imports become more expensive to ship than they are worth.

Opps... little sidetrack there.

Well Bobbin Threadbare (nm LOOM reference, and yes I ran it in Linux) the closest thing (that I know of) along these lines is a self replicating printer.

After a quick google:
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7165

[Malphas]

Thanks for supporting my point. I call these people the majority. I say the computer appliances will be marketed to them. The applaicnes will come when its possible to have a cheap but powerful enough device to do the top three tasks or so of most computer users (word processing, web and email stuff, and simple games).
I realise that, but there are still people that really have no desire to use the Internet or word process documents. I'm referring to the situations where appliances are being marketed to replace technology which is actually simpler (i.e. Media Centres). I do agree that PC-like appliances have their niche, but I can't see them replacing proper desktops altogether.

[drizek]

i think asia is a great economic power, but it isnt hte place where a lot of innovation in the tech world occurs. think about it. all the major companies that create your computer are based in the US. sure, all the parts are assembled in asia and then put together in some facotry in asia, but they are still american companies. all the r&d happens in the US(although its probably mostly done by asian americans anyway ;)). think about something like a cpu. intel, amd, transmeta and IBM are american companies. even motherboards which appear to be made by asian companies like asus or chaintech use chipsets(intel/nforce/VIA) that are developed in teh US. same with video cards. nvidia/ATI make the GPU's and then the asian companies solder it to some PCB and stick a fan on top.

But what IS developed in asia are ultra-cool implementations of these american products. like this: http://www.dynamism.com/q30/ and http://www.dynamism.com/x1/ . and of course, http://www.dynamism.com/solidalliance/gallery.shtml

the problem with these things is that they ARE appliances. that is what the japanese/korean/chinese companies want. dont think that just because they arent developed by americans taht they arent going to screw you over.

honestly, i think europe is the best place right now as far as tech goes. its a major base for linux and opensource, and the EU is probably the best hope we have for a truly free tech world. it certianly isnt happening in china and it isnt happening in the US either(although many people here are naive enough to believe that they are in fact free)