Linux better than Windows?

[elvinatom]

I was a happy Windows user until 2006 - that's when I started to "learn" the new things that were to come with Vista, and that's when I learned about all the corruption involving MS. Not that I was surprised, but I just thought that I can't support them any longer. I switched to SUSE, then to Fedora and then came to Ubuntu and stayed there happily. Now I do believe that MS has to come to an end for obvious reasons, but I have a hard time convincing other Windows users, because of compatibility reasons. What would the best argument be to make the switch? (and I mean for good!) On a technical basis I have to say that Windows might be a lousy OS, but it does indeed have huge advantages (beyond compatibility). Taken that into account, how can I make my case? What's your thought on that?

[magnus0]

Of course it's better. It's more stable, secure and faster. It just works!

[seatex]

64-bit ubuntu > XP64 and Vista 64

fast, stable and free

[Saya]

64-bit ubuntu > XP64 and Vista 64
Mac OS X > Windows > Ubuntu/"Linux" I'm utterly biased in favor of multimedia productivity.
Come on now, what did you expect?

[DrMega]

You can't persuade people to switch. What's right for one is not necessarily right for another.

Linux is more stable, better performance and in my opinion more useable than Windows, but Windows has all the games.

If you persuade someone to switch, and they are not happy with it, then not only will it make you look bad, but they'll never go back to Linux.

Give them a copy of the LiveCD and let them have a play with it so they can decide for themselves.

[elvinatom]

Well ya, I know, that's always the big argument, but ...
Linux is only stable if you _REALLY!_ watch what you install and the best part is _how_ you install it. And much of the open-source stuff does not function properly in all aspects though. Under Linux, imo, thing hardly ever "just work" - you need to take god knows what into consideration to get it to work and even then it sometimes doesn't work without problems (3D Desktop, ACPI, RAID and many others for example). I don't care really - I'm ready to try and learn new stuff and I like the challenge. But the average Joe Blow - how can he deal with these issues?

[seatex]

I use my XBox 360 for gaming, and LINUX for everything else. :)

[Daveski]

What would the best argument be to make the switch? (and I mean for good!) On a technical basis I have to say that Windows might be a lousy OS, but it does indeed have huge advantages (beyond compatibility). Taken that into account, how can I make my case? What's your thought on that?

What are the advantages that Windows has beyond compatibility?

[SuperSon!c]

recurring discussion alert

[elvinatom]

Dr. Mega, I wish I could just accept that - but I really feel that since OSS does not do advertisement or promotion, it needs a bit of a lift. And I also feel that people should respond negatively to the MS trap, but most people have not clue and the "loyal" power users don't want to hear it.

[Pap3r]

Well ya, I know, that's always the big argument, but ...
Linux is only stable if you _REALLY!_ watch what you install and the best part is _how_ you install it. And much of the open-source stuff does not function properly in all aspects though. Under Linux, imo, thing hardly ever "just work" - you need to take god knows what into consideration to get it to work and even then it sometimes doesn't work without problems (3D Desktop, ACPI, RAID and many others for example). I don't care really - I'm ready to try and learn new stuff and I like the challenge. But the average Joe Blow - how can he deal with these issues?

Many Linux distros do just work. They stop working properly once people start modifying them and make mistakes, which most of the time are easily avoidable and fixable. In all of my experience with Linux distros, they have all been extremely stable when I first started using them. Everything worked. After installing and using stock for a while I would normally decide that it could be more efficient in some aspects, or change the GUI, or simply install some programs I think are necessary. That's when things start getting complicated, with all the dependencies, and all the configuring. If you don't let that overwhelm you though, and just take it one at a time, you shouldn't run into any problems. Whenever Linux doesn't "Just work", you can usually attribute it to User error. Sorry :)

[elvinatom]

Daveski, the main advantages are that most software is written for Windows and any dummy can install and use it - without any incident what so ever. (given you meet the minimum requirements)

[howlingmadhowie]

you seem to have already hit the nail on the head for the main reason to move to a free operating system. it is because it's free. most computer users unfortunately do not value their freedom because they do not know what it is. that is where you have to explain it.

most people are fundamentally good. if you can get them to regard software and computing from a moral perspective you shouldn't have any trouble :)

[elvinatom]

howlingmadhowie, you're quite right, except the fact that people are also lazy. Too lazy to deal with software issues to be precise.

[Daveski]

Daveski, the main advantages are that most software is written for Windows and any dummy can install and use it - without any incident what so ever. (given you meet the minimum requirements)

I see - although I do not agree fully. Have you actually tried to install Windows? (not the recovery disc provided by the OEM, but the actual out-of-the-box retail version).

Yes, there is a good deal of commercial software written for Windows, but equally there is an enormous amount of Linux / Unix software out there also.

Although I would not recommend presenting arguments, or trying to persuade people to switch at all. Rather this is my technique:

1 - Give them a LiveCD like Ubuntu (obviously).
2 - Point out that it is their choice to try or install Linux - and that is what Linux is all about: Choice.
3 - Advise that most of the time Linux is simple, but at times Linux will be difficult. The positive is that YOU will be in complete control of your computer and the data stored on it.

[zetetic]

Isn't freedom, by far, the best value a human being can get?

So why spending time speaking of other Linux advantages???

[elvinatom]

Daveski, yes I installed Windows hundreds times (probably over 1000), optimized it for speed and (oviously very important for Windows) security.

With respect to your advise, do you think it's pointless to argue with them when the unpleasant question comes: "I can do anything with Linux I can do with Windows aka Games and Word?"

[DrMega]

Dr. Mega, I wish I could just accept that - but I really feel that since OSS does not do advertisement or promotion, it needs a bit of a lift. And I also feel that people should respond negatively to the MS trap, but most people have not clue and the "loyal" power users don't want to hear it.

I too think that open source needs better publicity. We can tell our freinds and colleagues that we use it and like it, and we can give them copies of stuff to try (safe in the knowledge that we are not breaking any laws by doing so).

That said, you need to remember that Windows is the right choice for some. If I wanted to be able to going into a game store and buy the latest game and know it is going to work, then I would use Windows.

MS also has it's place in industry. Although nowadays there are really solid database servers and development tools in the open source world, a few years ago this wasn't so much the case. If a company has invested the last ten years in its SQL Server based solution, it wouldn't be cost effective for them to switch. For a developer trying to get into that area, they need to gain experience of MS tools.

[beartard]

It's a never-ending argument. Which side is right is usually a matter for lofty philosophy rather than any common logic.

From a philosophical standpoint (let's not make the OS war a "moral" issue) open-source software is the way to go. It's people helping people, often without any pecuniary interests at all. The developers make it work because they're users as well. The users provide feedback when it doesn't work and the developers listen and make fixes. When is the last time you sent in a bug report for Windows software (OS or application) and got a response?

This helping attitude is one of two reasons I stay with Linux, and I've been with it for almost 10 years now exclusively. With Windows and most Windows software, you have to pay for support, even if you run a small business. In addition to your license fee, you have to pay for support contracts. Surely corporations could afford such, but for the home user or the small business owner, that's not really an option. If you go to your local bookseller, there are probably three different tutorial books for every Windows version and application ever made. It's not like Windows is easier to use. Most books at the store that could help out, though, are also out-of-date before they hit the shelves. With Ubuntu and other Linux distros, however, I can come here, wade through the flippant and often arrogant responses, and find the one post that helps me solve my own problems without oversight from a large corporation that couldn't care less.

For me, the other reason is I'm in control of what works and how it works. My new computer is a 64-bit box and it came with Windows Vista. I played with it a few days and I kept asking myself "Why won't it let me do what I want to do?" Also, the Vista install was 32-bit. What's holding them back? Closed-source applications that are unwilling to ship 64-bit software yet. There's no financial benefit to putting the effort into releasing it yet.

Yes, there are always teething troubles with open-source software, but at least they *move*. And Linux bugfixes are swift because users are also developers. Windows XP was around for almost 8 years and Microsoft was still shipping out bugfixes in the form of service packs when Vista was released. That's just not something I want on my computer.

As for "evangelizing" Windows users to Linux, I wouldn't take that approach. But it's a good word. "Converting" to Open-source software really is like changing religions. You have to take time to learn a new philosophy and be able to understand a new set of rituals. If you're used to going to services on Friday night, it will take a while to get used to the idea that you can go have a beer now instead. ;) Let people try it like a poster above said, but don't push.

[Daveski]

Daveski, yes I installed Windows hundreds times (probably over 1000), optimized it for speed and (oviously very important for Windows) security.

So you have plenty of experience. Do you think that the current implementations of modern distros (especially Ubuntu) are harder or easier to install and get up-and-running on the average machine on the average home network?

If you install software from the Ubuntu repositories, it simply couldn't be any easier. Yes, step outside of the repos and things start to get a bit harder.

With respect to your advise, do you think it's pointless to argue with them when the unpleasant question comes: "I can do anything with Linux I can do with Windows aka Games and Word?"

Well, my feeling is that if someone needs Windows because there is a requirement for Windows then there is no point in arguing. "I have a Windows game, therefore I need Windows. I have a Mac game therefore I need a Mac. I have an XBox game..." etc. etc.

There is mileage in arguing whether there really IS a requirement. "I need Microsoft Word because I need to be able to read .DOC files" - this time you can point out that Word is not necessarily a requirement to open .DOC files.

[SuperSon!c]

Whenever Linux doesn't "Just work", you can usually attribute it to User error. Sorry :)

yeah, right.

[Sef]

recurring discussion alert

Agreed. Moved to Recurring Discussions.

[elvinatom]

DrMega I fear you've got a point. So, the only thing I can do is say I like Linux and watch MS produce toasters, cars and clothing in the next 20-30 years. Who knows ... maybe there will be a hymn for them too - mandatory in high schools to sing in the mornings. Unless the media makes public what MS does - and that's the point they don't produce anything, it seems that marketing and development is the same department over there.

[elvinatom]

beartard, it took you longer than a quick sentence, but that answered my question (and my inner turmoil)!.

Thank you!

[elvinatom]

Daveski, beardart is right that there is no point in arguing. The real question is indeed philosophical, not moral. And beyond the OS I have also the same stand point on software and service.

[DrMega]

DrMega I fear you've got a point. So, the only thing I can do is say I like Linux and watch MS produce toasters, cars and clothing in the next 20-30 years.

Open Source is gaining ground, and MS know it. Individuals, companies and public sector organisations are slowly switching.

Certainly you can help push that along. Give your freinds and colleagues the Ubuntu LiveCD for example, but you can't single-handledly change the world overnight.

I agree with you that MS is more about marketing than software, and people are starting to realise this. MS have been fined a few times lately for various things. While certainly the amount of money involved in these fines means nothing to them, the publicity is not good for them.

What we can all do is let people know we use open source stuff, but don't push it on them. Let MS destroy themselves, and in time I'm convinced we'll see a radical shift towards open source. It will take time though, but Rome wasn't built in a day as they say.

[karellen]

What are the advantages that Windows has beyond compatibility?

this proves to be decisively for most people

[keykero]

Mac OS X > Windows > Ubuntu/"Linux" I'm utterly biased in favor of multimedia productivity.
Come on now, what did you expect?

This is a huge point. GNU/Linux is a non-starter for most people of people simply because of this. Linux is struggling with production issues that have been solved 10 years ago on other platforms. If all you ever want is to "e-mail and browse the web" then fine, but most people are using today's powerful computers for much more than that, and GNU/Linux quickly becomes a dead end.

[Daveski]

Linux is struggling with production issues that have been solved 10 years ago on other platforms. If all you ever want is to "e-mail and browse the web" then fine, but most people are using today's powerful computers for much more than that, and GNU/Linux quickly becomes a dead end.

I expect you will find many, many people on this forum which will disagree strongly with this. I certainly do way more than email and surf the web.

[perspectoff]

Mac OS X > Windows > Ubuntu/"Linux" I'm utterly biased in favor of multimedia productivity.
Come on now, what did you expect?

Then why is your Avatar so crude?

[perspectoff]

Kubuntu is.

Despite a few installation tweaks needed for Kubuntu, I spent less time installing Kubuntu than I did Windows XP.

And Vista?

Spent a few weeks and never got it to work properly.

We got rid of Vista at work. We had bought a few dozen copies of XP so we'd have them before M$ took them off the shelf.

That was also a waste, because now we are successfully transitioning to Kubuntu. Well, not a complete waste. We can install the extra copies over VMware.

[Calash]

It is not about what is the best OS. Every mature operating system has it's good points and it's bad. If you start bombarding people with "Linux is better, you must switch or you are supporting evil, baby killing, seal beating, Microsoft"..well people just tend to block the argument out.

The way to approach it is to first teach that there is a choice. How many average Windows users even know they have an alternative? Show them that there is a difference, and how it is different...and the same. Show them that they can spend $200 for an operating system to surf and watch youtube...or get the same ability for free.

[DrMega]

I expect you will find many, many people on this forum which will disagree strongly with this.

I'm one of them. One of the reasons I switched to Ubuntu was because Windows was so clumsy with just about everything.

For multimedia production on Windows, you seem to have to choices, steal the software or pay a huge amount for it, and then you need super beefy hardware to run it.

I like that in Ubuntu, I can look through the package list in Synaptic, and if something sounds potentially interesting, I can just install it with a couple of clicks or so, try it, and then if I don't like it I can get rid of it just as quickly as getting it in the first place.

[elvinatom]

Ya I guess it's like talking about religion - many opinions and that's about it. It really depends on what you want. Oh DrMega, I like all the free cool software too and I didn't factor in money at all. I pirated software in my Windows times and I'm not proud of it, but since Linux that issue is gladly history. Actually there doesn't seem to be much out there that you "can" purchase ;-), most programs I need are right here in the repositories.

[cardinals_fan]

Just enjoy it yourself. An operating system is a personal choice.