REQ*** Banshee Instead Of Rhythmbox

[zootreeves]

I would like to see banshee replace rhythm box as the default player in dapper drake. It support ID3 tag editing, full/stable ipod support, better layout....

[stoffe]

Haven't tried it, but it looks pretty similar. If it's just some things missing or buggy in Rhythmbox, I'd rather see those issues fixed rather than hopping on the dotNET bandwagon prematurely.

If Rhythmbox totally fails to deliver, then it's another matter - but if you tell them what you need and want, I don't think they are unreasonable... :)

[idn]

No!

Banshee hasnt got the itunes style interface, if you have your entire cd collection on your computer, having the chance to browse by band, and album is essential.

I tried banshee but just didnt like it. Rhythmbox should be developed rather than switch to Banshee.

[Lovechild]

No, Banshee has several issues:

a) it's not as widely translated as Rhythmbox
b) it's a much more complex interface than Rhythmbox
c) it doesn't support Streaming Radio

[mattisking]

I generally agree with everyone else here. Personally, however, I find that Banshee works better for me... that said, I simply take the extra step of installing Banshee. I don't need it to be the default.

[phibxr]

Banshee has one big advantage over Rhythmbox for me - if there are no track numbers specified in the ID3-tags, it falls back to alphabetical sorting *based on filename, and not on track name*.

I really can't see any reason to sort on track name like Rhythmbox and iTunes does when no ID3-tags are provided. Is there even any logic behind this behaviour? A bug report for this was filed in *2002*! (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=78713)

[talkingwires]

I think one reason for replacing Rhythmbox with Banshee, Quod Libet, or some other program is the RB developer's reluctance to incorportate new features. See this thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=76229) for example. A developer mentions (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=76229#7) several features that have been requested over and over again (a song queue, playing "non-library files", better streaming support, proper iPod support) and then explains why they haven't been implimented. Most of the reasons boil down to, "Well, we've been talking about it (for years) and some work was done (months ago) but the users never properly explained in excruciating minutiae exactly what they wanted, so we never finished it."

It just seems like the past three, four, five releases have been bug-fixes, with few, if any, new features being added. Ubuntu has always been about combining Debian's stability with cutting-edge features, and frankly, Rhythmbox has stagnated. It shows promise, but until the developers take the "risk" of adding a feature hundreds of users have requested, well, maybe Ubuntu should look for an alternative?

[doclivingston]

Hopefully this doesn't turn into yet another Rhythmbox vs Banshee vs everything-else flamewar. I think the biggest issue with switching to Banshee would be that it requires Mono, which isn't a problem of itself, but I'm not aware of any plans to ship it by default.


Banshee is missing some of the features that Rhythmbox has, has accessability issues that need fixing and isn't as well translated. But by the time Dapper comes out, I expect most of that to be improved.

Rhythmbox doesn't have some of the nice features that Banshee (and others) have. But by the time Dapper comes out, I expect most of that to be improved.


I think one reason for replacing Rhythmbox with Banshee, Quod Libet, or some other program is the RB developer's reluctance to incorportate new features.

I wouldn't say it's a reluctance to include new features, but a reluctance to include half-baked features. Of the features you mentioned, the queue and album art support are half-done, but they aren't they aren't up to scratch yet.

iPod support hadn't improved for a while because only one of the Rhythmbox developers has an iPod, and he was busy working on other Gnome projects. This is the same reason that support for other players hasn't been added yet , none of the develoeprs have access to one - although there was an initial patch for "generic" mp3 players posted to the mailing list the other day.

I agree that Rhythmbox stagnated for a while, however we've been getting back on track over the last two or three months. Most of the problems stemmed from the fact that the maintainer got employed by Red Hat (and so didn't have as much time to work on RB) and that most of the other main contributers are heavily involved with other Gnome projects which has taken a lot of their time.


Ubuntu shouldn't stay with Rhythmbox just because it's what has been shipped before, but they shouldn't change unless there is some definite benefit to it.

[RAOF]

I think that the biggest issue with having banshee as default (at the moment, at least) is that is incomplete in important ways - the playlist sorting doesn't (quite) work correctly IMO, and it doesn't save the order of the columns, etc. It's missing polish.

That stuff would be pretty easy to fix, though.

[zachtib]

After installing banshee, I think our efforts would be better used convincing the developers of Banshee and Rhythmbox to pool their resources.
There are some features of Rhythmbox that I like, for example, the iTunes-like interface, but Banshee has some features that I now know I won't be able to live without, for example (if it works, haven't tried it yet) syncing music to an iPod, as this is the only thing I use windows for at the moment.

[teevee]

I simply take the extra step of installing Banshee. I don't need it to be the default.
Same for me and Muine. :-) It has all I need, but not all RB has, so it's not an adequate replacement.

[mattisking]

for example (if it works, haven't tried it yet) syncing music to an iPod, as this is the only thing I use windows for at the moment.

Yeah, the iPod support is really slick thanks to ipod-sharp. The version that ultimately shipped with Breezy was downgraded at the last moment and no longer supported my iPod version but a build from SVN fixed that right up. I really enjoy both applications, but Banshee is my application of choice right now because of it's excellent iPod support.

[carbon-12]

Hurray Rhythmbox 0.9.1 was released!
http://www.gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=423

Latest Version: 0.9.1
* Add DAAP (iTunes' music sharing) support [Charles Schmidt]
* Notification bubble from tray icon [Colin Walters]
* Minimise to tray rather than exiting when close is used [Colin Walters]
* Allow sources to form a tree, for child playlists [Charles Schmidt]
* Add removable media framework and port ipod code [James Livingston]
* Support HAL >= 0.5 as well as > 0.2 [Ronald Bultje]
* Much improved automatic playlists, including more criteria options and sorting [James Livingston:132566]
* Use a proper GTK status bar [William Jon McCann]
* Better drag-n-drop support: drag from browsers to source list, from browsers or track list to other apps and re-order playlists [Jonathan Matthew: 147337]
* Update DBus support to version 0.35, general DBUS improvements and drop command-line arguments for DBus [Colin Walters]
* Add "limit by time" option to playlists [James Livingston: 159227]
* Display hours if a song is longer than 60 minutes [Jonathan Matthew: 313311]
* Use new volume widget, same as in Totem [Ronald S. Bultje: 300867]
* Focus entry view when enter is pressed in search box [Paolo Borelli: 128110]
* Show source list when playlist os created [James Livingston: 161935]
* Disable rather then hide seek bar [James Livingston: 139102]
* Improved error handling in RBPlayer [Colin Walters]
* Remove dashboard support [Colin Walters]
* Many HIG and UI improvements [Dennis Cranston and Paolo Borelli]
* Use last.fm instead of allofmusic.com for links [Colin Walters]
* Remove autorating of tracks [Colin Walters]
* Fix header synchronisation [Raphael Slinckx]
* Fix some window state issues [James Livingston: 313893 and 137068]
* Add "Date Added" column [Ernst Persson]
* Better playlist loading [James Livingston, Bastien Nocera, Colin Walters]
* Make playing source bold, rather than using an icon [Colin Walters]
* Allow library-derived sources to override behaviour [James Livingston]
* Correctly update status bar and don't use useless info [James Livingston]
* Add support for building API docs with gnome-doc-utils [Raphael Slinckx]
* Update the default radio stations [Ali Akcaagac:129285]
* Remove a heap of old code, and use stock art instead of custom art
* Many rhythmdb improvements
* Fix more memory leaks
* Many bug fixes and minor improvements

[poofyhairguy]

Yeah, the iPod support is really slick thanks to ipod-sharp. The version that ultimately shipped with Breezy was downgraded at the last moment and no longer supported my iPod version but a build from SVN fixed that right up.

Have a how to for that?

[Lovechild]

* Notification bubble from tray icon [Colin Walters]

A prime example of how to abuse notitications turning them from useful user information to plain annoyance.

[m87]

A prime example of how to abuse notitications turning them from useful user information to plain annoyance.

opinions.

[Lovechild]

opinions.

This was heavily up for debate when people started talking about how to implement notification, I would have no problem with this being an option - it might be useful for some - but I'm afraid as are a lot of people that we'll be drowned in notification pop ups and valuable data will get lost.

I believe that even the initial proposal warned about the potential misuse of this otherwise very cool technology.

[mojo]

Gosh, Rhythmbox is so slow in development. I waited for more than a year for the CD-Audio playing patch merged in and look now...it's still not in yet. And isn't it TOO hard to add ID3Tag editing feature? :mad:

[vvlist]

It's way too early to decide if Banshee could replace Rhythmbox in the next Ubuntu. Banshee is very new and still loaded with bugs. Don't get me wrong, I love it and use it. But Rhythmbox is a lot more mature and stable than Banshee. With Rhythmbox's slow development, and Banshee's current heavy development, it's anyone's game. Wait a few months and we'll see how each of the programs are developing. Hell, we have 6 whole months until the next release. Don't you guys think it's a little early to be talking about this? A lot can happen in 6 months. Just a thought.

[daveisadork]

I tried to try Banshee. It was pretty unstable on my system. :shrug:

[Lovechild]

Gosh, Rhythmbox is so slow in development. I waited for more than a year for the CD-Audio playing patch merged in and look now...it's still not in yet. And isn't it TOO hard to add ID3Tag editing feature? :mad:

Actually yes, at least if you want it done using gstreamer and done right. The current feature I hear tends to make your files go boom, very undesirable, thus it is disabled.

Remember you'd want tagging to be available on all filetypes rb supports, work the same and you'd want it to save the file with the content unharmed. Sounds easy, but I swear it's a tough job.

[vvlist]

I tried to try Banshee. It was pretty unstable on my system. :shrug:

Yeah, I really like what the developer is doing with it. But its just not there yet. I'll be waiting though. Its next stable release should be pretty good. If there are any features you want in it, theres a feature request place on the website. Check it out.

[RAOF]

Yeah, I really like what the developer is doing with it. But its just not there yet. I'll be waiting though. Its next stable release should be pretty good. If there are any features you want in it, theres a feature request place on the website. Check it out.
It's actually pretty simple to hack on, too ;)

[doclivingston]

It's way too early to decide if Banshee could replace Rhythmbox in the next Ubuntu.

That's the other really big issue - we're trying to decide which is better based on our guesses of where Rhythmbox and Bashee will be in around five months time.

Banshee development will keep going on at a good pace, have a heap of new features and hopefully get most of the "polish" bugs fixed. Rhythmbox development will be back on track, have a several of new features and continue it's level of polish.

Which will be better? I don't think there is a real way to say.

[lithium]

Banshee development will keep going on at a good pace, have a heap of new features and hopefully get most of the "polish" bugs fixed. Rhythmbox development will be back on track, have a several of new features and continue it's level of polish.

Which will be better? I don't think there is a real way to say.

Banshee development is currently centered around refactoring some of the code, if that's done (soon) development will fly again I suppose. Banshee will get a browser interface soon.

I currently sill use rhythmbox most of the time, but it's really not going anywhere. Moving development to arch was a big waste of time, keeping the development branch stable only leeds to contributers losing interest... Also, can someone tell me why loading playlists and stuff at startup lates soooo ridiculously long? And web radio stuff has been broken for month, too.

[mostwanted]

Arhm...!

1) Banshee (and Muine for that matter) are Mono applications written in C#, e.g. they consist of CIL bytecode, RhythmBox is an ordinary application written in C. You can't really share code in between the two (maybe a little with C# wrappers in Banshee's case).

2) Banshee has a bunch of problems with (for example) memory usage, id3tags, it's still a young application IMO.

3) Banshee is, as was mentioned before, a Mono application. Event though I develop in Mono in my spare time and think it's really great, Mono does have the opportunity of getting into some looming future legal trouble :S Having it as a complimentary app in the repositories is okay, but it shouldn't replace RhythmBox.

[doclivingston]

1) Banshee (and Muine for that matter) are Mono applications written in C#, e.g. they consist of CIL bytecode, RhythmBox is an ordinary application written in C. You can't really share code in between the two (maybe a little with C# wrappers in Banshee's case).

A lot of banshee's backend libraries are actually written in C, with c# wrappers. So hopefully in the future we'll see quite a bit of sharing between the projects.

At the least, we can borrow ideas off each other and make both projects better.

[idn]

. Banshee will get a browser interface soon.

I heard that it wouldnt because of maybe patent infringements with iTunes

[mattisking]

3) Banshee is, as was mentioned before, a Mono application. Event though I develop in Mono in my spare time and think it's really great, Mono does have the opportunity of getting into some looming future legal trouble

That's a widely argued point of contention and I certainly don't want to get that argument going on once again in here... but I just wanted to give people that don't know the reverse. Microsoft put C# out there. There's no legal issue there, nor with the majority of the .NET Framework pieces. If I understand it properly it's only really in the areas of Winforms and Webforms that it gets dicey. Most of the big Mono apps have been written using GTK# instead of Winforms (including Banshee I believe) so that's very unlikely to be a problem. Also, with Microsoft's personal legal problems with patents (and their complete infringements of them) it would cause a public relations nightmare at this point for Microsoft to go after anyone on patent issues.

[AndersAA]

I wouldn't worry anyway, nothing mono is going to be ubuntu default for a VERY long time.

[mostwanted]

That's a widely argued point of contention and I certainly don't want to get that argument going on once again in here... but I just wanted to give people that don't know the reverse. Microsoft put C# out there. There's no legal issue there, nor with the majority of the .NET Framework pieces. If I understand it properly it's only really in the areas of Winforms and Webforms that it gets dicey. Most of the big Mono apps have been written using GTK# instead of Winforms (including Banshee I believe) so that's very unlikely to be a problem. Also, with Microsoft's personal legal problems with patents (and their complete infringements of them) it would cause a public relations nightmare at this point for Microsoft to go after anyone on patent issues.

Yes, I agree, but it's still not completely safe grounds until there's some statement by Microsoft that Mono is 'ok'. I've heard the real controversy is with C# and CIL actually, because the ECMA RAND license is very open for interpretation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_and_Non_Discriminatory_Licensing

[Joh_]

I only started Banshee, imported my MP3s, and closed it again. That's all I needed to do to find out it's not an app for me. It doesn't support ID3v2 yet apparantly, and all my MP3s are using just that. So back to Rhythmbox for me. :p

[mostwanted]

I only started Banshee, imported my MP3s, and closed it again. That's all I needed to do to find out it's not an app for me. It doesn't support ID3v2 yet apparantly, and all my MP3s are using just that. So back to Rhythmbox for me. :p

Exactly, a lot of my music is the same, so -although banshee is sexy in some ways- it just doesn't cut it.

[asv]

NEW FEATURES
------------

- MusicBrainz CD Metadata Fetching
- CDDB Support Removed (Old CD Metadata fetching used the Gnome CDDB
Slave2 Client)
- Cover Art fetching for Audio CDs through Amazon.com
- Full resolution cover art viewing
- Enhanced CD Ripping; select tracks to rip
- New progress notification
- Short cut keys
- J or F3: Focus search entry
- CTRL+Forward: Fast forward current song 10 seconds
- CTRL+Back: Rewind current song by 10 seconds
- Shift+Back: Restart current song
- iTunes 5 and 6 support for iPods
- Support for music features in new iPod Nano/Video, and others
- Delete music from drive (in addition to just remove from library)
- Improved user interface elements in response to UI testing
- Great new icons from Ryan Collier and Jakub Steiner
- VLC media engine backend
- Translations (Bulgarian, Canadian English, Spanish, Japanese,
Lithuanian, Simplified Chinese, Dutch)
- Control playback and query over D-Bus
- Control and query command line options (see --help)
- Full screen mode


FIXES AND OPTIMIZATIONS
-----------------------

- Optimized SQL queries and SQLite pragmas
- Better thread handling, more responsive UI
- Library database path fixed to ~/.gnome2/banshee/banshee.db, old
databases will be moved on first run
- Much faster startup time

[Spie]

And has somebody created a .deb of 0.9.9 yet? When will it be backported?

[apoclypse]

if there was someway of decoupling amarok from qt then that should definately be the default. Amarok IS the best player on linux no contenders. Rythmbox is so droll, it lacks any innovation.

[ameerirshad]

I would like to see banshee replace rhythm box as the default player in dapper drake. It support ID3 tag editing, full/stable ipod support, better layout....

I would love to see Banshee running, but untill today I wonder how it comes that Banshee isn't reading my music folder? Like as if it can't read into subfolders? So as long as Banshee hasn't found any media, I stick to Rhythmbox!