why does microsoft hate linux

[gameryoshi600]

why do they hate linux its not taking them out of the market

[Dr Small]

Linux is a potential threat to them losing customers, and money.

[LaRoza]

Linux is causing them to lose customers, and money.

Fixed it for you.

[gameryoshi600]

LOL! so? then they gotta work at being better ;) (like they ever will!)

[insane_alien]

well, microsoft is still pretty much a monopoly in the OS market. it is also a long standing monopoly. they don't want competition even though it would improve their standing asthey would have to make decent software for once.

[Ajay Chahar]

Linux is free and it can do things that M$ can without charging a single cent. And it does things better -_-

[LaRoza]

Linux is a potential threat to them losing customers, and money.

On the desktop, yes.

For servers, *nix is already on top and MS is trying to get into that market.

[Fedz]

Any OS other than Window$ is a threat to them as it takes away potential market share ...

Given that Ubuntu is a highly accessable, usable and user friendly desktop OS then M$ see the threat more great.

As Ubuntu naturally evolves I envisage M$ will start to up the anti - in time ;)

[revelationman]

Ubuntu is a threat to Microsoft that is my feeling, Hardy systems can now work with the Active Directory that is big.
What system in today's OS market besides Linux has as much software as Linux
Microsoft could not offer that much software the cost would be horrendous
Ubuntu is the best thing for the consumer safe secure great support
What I think the devs should try to do is create a MSN type program that works sure there is Amsn but it is tough to get that web cam to work. If Ubuntu gets that sorted watch out !!!!

[LaRoza]

Ubuntu is a threat to Microsoft that is my feeling, Hardy systems can now work with the Active Directory that is big.
What system in today's OS market besides Linux has as much software as Linux
Microsoft could not offer that much software the cost would be horrendous
Ubuntu is the best thing for the consumer safe secure great support
What I think the devs should try to do is create a MSN type program that works sure there is Amsn but it is tough to get that web cam to work. If Ubuntu gets that sorted watch out !!!!

Kopete works fine with my web cam and IMing.

[tvtech]

Microsoft is a proprietary software as a product company. Canonical is a software as a service company, they will never make money on ubuntu desktop, but they do make money on selling support "supposedly - needs verification" and services. there are many open source companies that follow the software as a service model. or service for software model to be more correct. codeweavers is more of a software as a service, since they do customizations for a price. Microsoft doesn't hate linux per say.... but it's in a competetive capatilist market, if it didn't compete that would be bad for all of us. competition is good, it drives inovation.

[konungursvia]

why do they hate linux its not taking them out of the market

Also, it's human nature, and odium figulinum. An old ***** hating a younger, prettier girl.

And MS knows they spend billiions on their stuff, only to see the OSS community come up with comparable stuff, better in most respects, for free.

[Midwest-Linux]

The growing open source mandates throughout the world means that computers that ran Windows will now be running open source. Witness the 6,000 school computers in Switzerland moving from Windows to Ubuntu.

Or the 23,000 computers all going to Linux in the Philippines. No matter what MSFT does or tries to do, open source mandates means no windows. Its not Linux' fault, Linux is there to help fill the open mandates and Windows can't keep in that atmosphere.

MSFT should not hate Linux for the mandates, the mandates are meant to save money on license fees and to get away from relying on proprietary systems. MSFT probably hates its Windows users for trying Linux, going dual booting, going 50/50 1/2 Linux 1/2 Windows....but one cannot stop progress and neither can MSFT.

[seanc7]

Every person that uses Linux instead of Windows for something is lost revenue for MS.

Now that Linux is a very capable and viable desktop OS alternative to Windows, MS is really worried because it could eat into their desktop OS monopoly in a big way.

I've always figured that MS perfers desktop OS competitors like Apple which cost more and have very limited hardware support.


Linux on servers is worse for MS because then people don't get locked into using Active Directory or IIS or SQL Server or Exchange or any of their other back-end products that only run on Windows Server.

I haven't used Apache or mySQL myself, but I've heard they blow the MS counterparts away. So that's another worry of MS, the fact that the GPL software is of much higher quality then their software which costs $1000+ for the base software and then the great MS cash-cow invention of Client Access Licenses, they end up loosing a ton.

Aside from Lotus Notes, which isn't GPL AFAIK, I don't think there's any other widely-used Exchange competitors.

[gsmanners]

It's all about the money. No matter how much you have, you feel like you need more, and Linux is a threat in that respect.

[AlphaMack]

Microsoft wants you to use Windows. They want you to do all of your office work using Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Access, and whatnot. But first, you would need to connect up to your local AD and Exchange server to logon and to get your office mail and calendar via Outlook. To hit the web you would need Internet Explorer which will point you to Windows Live Search by default. And if you have any buddies to talk to, well you would need to fire up MSN Messenger (if your local sysadmin allows it).

Linux and the FOSS movement in general are very real threats to the MS ecosystem.

[vishzilla]

MS has more reasons to fear Linux. Vista being more or less a failure along with the heavy system requirements, more users tend to move to Linux. Hey, with Linux you always have the latest and greatest FOSS along with good community support. And Ubuntu being a good distro for beginners its very true in the last yr Linux has seen greater adoption

[caravel]

Microsoft wants you to use Windows. They want you to do all of your office work using Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Access, and whatnot. But first, you would need to connect up to your local AD and Exchange server to logon and to get your office mail and calendar via Outlook. To hit the web you would need Internet Explorer which will point you to Windows Live Search by default. And if you have any buddies to talk to, well you would need to fire up MSN Messenger (if your local sysadmin allows it).
That's what's known as "anti-competitive". All of this started when MS first "bundled" IE 4.0 with Windows 98, to destroy the competition in the browser market and establish IE as the dominant browser. Most of your average pc users have no idea that alternative browsers exist, as they assume the internet to be accessible only through IE.

[seanc7]

I've lost count of the number of times people have said they can't access the Internet because they couldn't find the blue "e" on their desktop. With Linux, you have to learn a little bit more then which icon to click to do what you want. The less tech-savvy users are, the less likely they are to try something that's not bundled Microsoft products.

[LaRoza]

I've lost count of the number of times people have said they can't access the Internet because they couldn't find the blue "e" on their desktop. With Linux, you have to learn a little bit more then which icon to click to do what you want. The less tech-savvy users are, the less likely they are to try something that's not bundled Microsoft products.

I once got a theme for Firefox that looks exactly like IE7, and changed the icon to the IE icon on a Windows box. It was a "better" IE by all accounts...

[sayakb]

I have experienced dumb users who cannot understand that the computer is asking them to swipe the finger on the fingerprint reader, wait indefinitely, and pick up their laptops and bring it 4 blocks across for me to check what happened (my dearest friend he is!) Anyway, I set up Gutsy for him. All he does is IM, watch movies and listen to MP3s. So I created a simple user account for him. The interface resembles WinXP, but ofcourse, the desktop effects (Compiz) is way much better than any MS os. So I think he loves it now (I mean he has learned to double-click on Computer rather than My Computer to open his drives!)

[kamaboko]

I wasn't aware that MS hates Linux. Where did you read this? Is this a company policy? I mean, every MS employee world-wide hates Linux? I have friends that program for the MS platform, and know a few people that work at MS Redmond and they've never expressed hate for Linux. So...again...where is this information coming from?

[FredB]

I think that MS hates users which wipes Windows Vista for XP or worse to them a linux distro.

[atomkarinca]

I wasn't aware that MS hates Linux. Where did you read this? Is this a company policy? I mean, every MS employee world-wide hates Linux? I have friends that program for the MS platform, and know a few people that work at MS Redmond and they've never expressed hate for Linux. So...again...where is this information coming from?

This (http://www.microsoft.com/uk/getthefacts/default.mspx) is just a simple example. Microsoft hates Linux, not the users (well, most of them don't).

[karellen]

This (http://www.microsoft.com/uk/getthefacts/default.mspx) is just a simple example. Microsoft hates Linux, not the users (well, most of them don't).

it's called marketing, not hate.
honestly now, what do you expect a corporation should say? that other products are better?:lolflag:

[cOzAtS]

Wel I don't think it has anything to do with hate. I suppose its plain fear. Not for the present but for the future. Imagine more and more companies adopting linux, imagine companies and ministries working with open office, imagine the change in the office standards (no .doc no .xls no .ppt) and think about it. Each day passing more people get to know what FOSS mean, and they learn to work with it in their jobs. Going home to a computer telling them they are thieves (WGA) and making their 3-4 year old pc working sooo slow, what would make them hesitate to make a transition to linux. Probably they will have to, at least the ones who take work at home.

Well, times are changing, and a new era in computing is close. At least thats what I feel.
MS will have to adopt a different approach for the market, and even more for their product...

[atomkarinca]

it's called marketing, not hate.
honestly now, what do you expect a corporation should say? that other products are better?:lolflag:

It's not called marketing, it's called manipulation and manipulation is just sugercoated lying. I expect a corporation to emphasize its advantages, not lie about other corporations just to make themselves look good, where they -apparently- suck.

[gameryoshi600]

I once got a theme for Firefox that looks exactly like IE7, and changed the icon to the IE icon on a Windows box. It was a "better" IE by all accounts...

I got that theme too! vista-aero it is called. its really cool to me but it represents vista though.

[karellen]

It's not called marketing, it's called manipulation and manipulation is just sugercoated lying. I expect a corporation to emphasize its advantages, not lie about other corporations just to make themselves look good, where they -apparently- suck.

where do you draw the line between manipulation and "emphasizing its advantages"?

[atomkarinca]

where do you draw the line between manipulation and "emphasizing its advantages"?

"Linux facts" > manipulation
"Microsoft facts" > emphasizing its advantages

This is my opinion. Also this is why I don't have respect for Microsoft. You can observe the same tactic during political elections. When a candidate sees that he/she will lose, he/she immediately starts to bash the opponent.

[rickyjones]

why do they hate linux its not taking them out of the market

I've never seen "hate" from Microsoft regarding Linux. I've seen advertising campaigns with case studies that show that Microsoft software has a lower TCO when compared to Linux at times. I definitely would not classify that as hate, however. More like... advertising.

-Richard

[kamaboko]

This (http://www.microsoft.com/uk/getthefacts/default.mspx) is just a simple example. Microsoft hates Linux, not the users (well, most of them don't).

Well, I can see you have no bias or "hate" toward MS. None of that "pot calling the kettle black" going on here. :lolflag:

So Ford must hate Honda, Toyota, Mazda, etc. And Mazda must hate Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc. Toyota must hate Honda, etc...you get the picture.

So I gather any advertising by company "A" comparing their product with company "B" or "C" must be motivated by hate. Got it. I'll be sure to bring that up to my professor friend who teaches global business strategies. I'm sure he'll say all comparative advertising is rooted in hate.

[atomkarinca]

Well, I can see you have no bias or "hate" toward MS. None of that "pot calling the kettle black" going on here. :lolflag:

So Ford must hate Honda, Toyota, Mazda, etc. And Mazda must hate Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc. Toyota must hate Honda, etc...you get the picture.

So I gather any advertising by company "A" comparing their product with company "B" or "C" must be motivated by hate. Got it. I'll be sure to bring that up to my professor friend who teaches global business strategies. I'm sure he'll say all comparative advertising is rooted in hate.

First of all I said that hated Microsoft and I mentioned the reason. Second of all, Ford vs. Honda comparison is not valid. Because Ford doesn't dominate the automobile industry by 90%. And I have never seen Ford commercials indicating "Toyota sucks" (I also didn't say "comparison means hate"). Comparing Red Hat (and that's not even completely true comparison) with Windows and saying "Linux sucks" means hate to me. So yeah, bring that up to whomever you want.

[ShodanjoDM]

They hate penguins.

[rickyjones]

First of all I said that hated Microsoft and I mentioned the reason. Second of all, Ford vs. Honda comparison is not valid. Because Ford doesn't dominate the automobile industry by 90%. And I have never seen Ford commercials indicating "Toyota sucks" (I also didn't say "comparison means hate"). Comparing Red Hat (and that's not even completely true comparison) with Windows and saying "Linux sucks" means hate to me. So yeah, bring that up to whomever you want.

I've never seen a Microsoft document indicate the words "Linux sucks."

So Microsoft has 90% market share. This means that when they advertise they advertise their hate? I don't agree with that sentiment personally.

Sincerely,
Richard

[Jiraya]

That's why Linux is "free", in the essence of the word.

[atomkarinca]

I've never seen a Microsoft document indicate the words "Linux sucks."

So Microsoft has 90% market share. This means that when they advertise they advertise their hate? I don't agree with that sentiment personally.

Sincerely,
Richard

OK, the origin of the problem is me, I cannot explain myself. I will try to follow your footsteps here.

I should have known that "Comparing Red Hat (and that's not even completely true comparison) with Windows and saying "Linux sucks" means hate to me" has to mean that Microsoft literally indicates the sucking of Linux. If they don't say "Linux sucks" with these exact words, it means they are saying "Linux rules".

And indicating somewhere in my post "90% marketshare" and "hate" has got to be because I mean "Microsoft has 90% marketshare so they must advertise their hate", otherwise I'm just talking nonesense.

One last time; I don't like Microsoft, I don't like their closed source, I don't like DRM, I don't like the fact that most of the people can't even realise they have other choices, software piracy is easier with Windows, so on so forth.

Also I think Microsoft hates Linux, too. The previous one was just a little example. How I came to that conclusion? They don't like open source alternatives. That's why they never compare Windows to MacOS. Open source is not just free, you can alter it as you like. In the long run most people will realise they don't even need Windows. This is a big threat to Windows.

I'm really getting tired of this thread. So I'm sorry if I said something wrong because sometimes I can be very short-tempered. But I still think I'm right :)

[compgeek83]

One last time; I don't like Microsoft, I don't like their closed source, I don't like DRM, I don't like the fact that most of the people can't even realise they have other choices, software piracy is easier with Windows, so on so forth.

Also I think Microsoft hates Linux, too. The previous one was just a little example. How I came to that conclusion? They don't like open source alternatives. That's why they never compare Windows to MacOS. Open source is not just free, you can alter it as you like. In the long run most people will realise they don't even need Windows. This is a big threat to Windows.


lol, reading this thread makes me think I'm over on neowin.net, mention MS and I hate in the same sentence gets you banned over there.

I agree with you whole heartedly, DRM is the absolute dumbest thing that has ever been invented, before a new version of it can even be released it's already hacked by someone else.

I own/run a computer repair business in a small town, 50% of the things I spend my time on (billable luckily) involve fixing Microsoft problems, user's pc's get bogged down due to virus's and spyware, Vista pc's quit working for no reason a need a reload, software quits working for no reason, expired antivirus software cant be uninstalled (norton for example) to allow you to install a newer version, or the dreaded WGA message about piracy because some guys brothers cousins friend loaded a copy of XP Pro on their old Windows ME system years ago. my favorite one lately is the guy who has a 500mhz pc running 98SE, he decided it was time to upgrade and the moron at MegaLoMart sold him a copy of Vista.

I get people all the time who think FireFox is some kind of virus, but once they use it most like it better than IE for some strange reason....

With Hardy 8.04 out I think Linux is well past it's readiness for prime time, and yes, I would have to say Microsoft hates Linux and anything else open source, Mac isn't a threat to them, people have to pay more for a Mac than they do for a windows pc, MS loves Mac for that reason, but I'd say Bill Gates wishes he had gotten along with Steve Jobs a lot better back in the 80's.

[rickyjones]

I agree with you whole heartedly, DRM is the absolute dumbest thing that has ever been invented, before a new version of it can even be released it's already hacked by someone else.

I'll agree that DRM is not the best technology in the world. However I have yet to run into it. I've never had an issue, even on Vista, regarding DRM. I've always been able to play my MP3s without issue.


I own/run a computer repair business in a small town, 50% of the things I spend my time on (billable luckily) involve fixing Microsoft problems, user's pc's get bogged down due to virus's and spyware, Vista pc's quit working for no reason a need a reload, software quits working for no reason, expired antivirus software cant be uninstalled (norton for example) to allow you to install a newer version, or the dreaded WGA message about piracy because some guys brothers cousins friend loaded a copy of XP Pro on their old Windows ME system years ago. my favorite one lately is the guy who has a 500mhz pc running 98SE, he decided it was time to upgrade and the moron at MegaLoMart sold him a copy of Vista.

1) Viruses and spyware can only be partially attributed to Microsoft. Yes, by default you run as Administrator in Windows XP, this is true. However you can change that. The problem however is that a lot of third party software does not play nice with a limited user account. This is because third party developers do not follow the Microsoft white papers regarding user security. If you run all Microsoft software then you can run as a limited user with no issue.

2) You've had several Vista PCs quit working which required a reload? With no warning? Not sure on that as I've only been using Vista for a few weeks on my laptop and desktop. So far so good, but if you've worked on more machines than me then that could explain it. I have a customer to go see on Thursday with Vista, we'll see how it goes!

3) When "software" quits working is it really fair to blame Microsoft? Even when they have no control over it?

4) Again, Norton is not Microsoft. I have the same issues with their software. Convinced another customer to dump Norton and move to AVG just the other day. Working just fine now. :)

5) WGA because someone installed an illegal copy of Windows is hardly fair to yell at Microsoft about. Microsoft is just trying to keep everything legit.

6) That moron who sold Vista as an upgrade to a computer running Windows 98SE... I agree, that is dumb, but blaming Microsoft? Now that is just plain mean! For the price he paid to purchase Vista he could have purchased a brand new PC.

Just thought that I would respond to your comments. Not trolling, just throwing my two cents in to keep the thread fair and balanced.

Sincerely,
Richard

[Captain Oblivious]

Well, imagine if you thought of a way to make money selling something.
And you could make a lot of money.
Now imagine if someone made a product that directly competed with it and was free and was 10 times better.
Now imagine if your profits were less because of this competition.
I imagine you would be quite annoyed.

[rockface]

I don't know what Ballmer or Gate's personel feelings toward linux and open source in general are. But I can tell you the resentment and bile certain Windows users have towards ANYTHING that is non-MS.

They have a pysical, almost drug-like dependency for all things Microsoft. Anything else they stick their fingers in their ears and go 'la-la-la-la can't hear you!'.

When you try and talk to them rationally they clam up or resort to MS market-speak (the 'Get The Facts' bull mentioned elsewhere).

I think this is the deliberate attitude that MS instills in it's drones, and very effective it is too.

[Mhurst1]

I use to be one of those "drones" as you call them and I never covered my ears when I heard anything anti-Microsoft I looked into it to see if it was better for me.

[fmartinez]

Microsoft is first and foremost a business. Business are in the market of making money. Anything that would take away from that should be viewed as a threat.
If I'm a business owner and there other competitors out there in my market taking potential customers away from me. With out a doubt I view them a threat.
It's up to the consumer to make a good decision on what product they choose to support.
Consumers are what drive a business to sucess or failure. Because one company can market or advertise their product better than others doesn't always make them a bad guy.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and makes their own choices.
Think about this.
Because Red Hat and Novell offer their own products for money. Does that make the bad guy in Linux community?
What if Microsoft offered a free variation of Windows that you download and install? Would that make them the good guys now?

There are too many what if scenarios to consider!
The bottom line is that if your business and it's prime focus is making capitol you'll do whatever it takes to get it!
Just like now Microsoft is developing applications to encorporate Unix/Linux technologies.

One more question:
Novell works in conjuction with Microsoft. Are going to stop downloading and using Open SUSE beacause they are working with Microsoft?

[will1911a1]

why do they hate linux its not taking them out of the market

I'd have to assume that they're upset that I'm not paying them for Windows and it's various applications.

[karellen]

I don't know what Ballmer or Gate's personel feelings toward linux and open source in general are. But I can tell you the resentment and bile certain Windows users have towards ANYTHING that is non-MS.

They have a pysical, almost drug-like dependency for all things Microsoft. Anything else they stick their fingers in their ears and go 'la-la-la-la can't hear you!'.

When you try and talk to them rationally they clam up or resort to MS market-speak (the 'Get The Facts' bull mentioned elsewhere).

I think this is the deliberate attitude that MS instills in it's drones, and very effective it is too.

users, not drones. these kind inductions are tricky. using an OS doesn't make to smarter or cooler and in the meantime it doesn't mean you are a moron for doing so. it's a tool, and people use it like a tool. anything beyond that is absurd and insulting for the common sense. if I drive a BMW and you drive a Mercedes this makes us drones? ;;)

[imT]

I don't know what Ballmer or Gate's personel feelings toward linux and open source in general are. But I can tell you the resentment and bile certain Windows users have towards ANYTHING that is non-MS.

They have a pysical, almost drug-like dependency for all things Microsoft. Anything else they stick their fingers in their ears and go 'la-la-la-la can't hear you!'.

When you try and talk to them rationally they clam up or resort to MS market-speak (the 'Get The Facts' bull mentioned elsewhere).

I think this is the deliberate attitude that MS instills in it's drones, and very effective it is too.
+1 i second that; the <<pysical, almost drug-like dependency for all things Microsoft. Anything else they stick their fingers in their ears and go 'la-la-la-la can't hear you!'>> is very annoying; reminds me of Plato's "The Allegory of the Cave (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ei7LqbYb8M)"

[rockface]

I know many people with the 'if it's not Microsoft, it's not possible' attitude. And to say otherwise is a lie.

I have talked to these people face to face, on IRC, MSN etc. They simply do not want to know what goes on outside the Redmond reality bubble. This is an absolute fact.

Just as you get individuals that are this way with Apple/Linux/*BSD , Microsoft have their blind faith fanbois too. These are the drones of whitch I speak. They DO exist, and in larger numbers than you think.

And for the record I use Windows/Linux/*BSD/{insert alternative OS here} on a regular basis. Each has a set of tools I need to perform a specific task. I would not use Windows for a server. I would not game on Linux.

My point is that some people do indeed hate Linux. They do so even when it is proven beyond refute that Linux/FOSS would do a better job under specific circumstances.

Maybe I should have made the distinction between 'User' and 'Drone', my bad.

[cardinals_fan]

Microsoft does not hate Linux. It is incapable of hate, because it is a corporation. No more, no less.

[rockface]

But the people that run the company are capable of hate. But I doubt this would be uttered in public.

[Jiraya]

why do they hate linux its not taking them out of the market

Because it's fully functional even being free and opensource? :D

Linux Archive (http://www.linux-archive.org)

[GTengineer]

I don't know what Ballmer or Gate's personel feelings toward linux and open source in general are. But I can tell you the resentment and bile certain Windows users have towards ANYTHING that is non-MS.

They have a pysical, almost drug-like dependency for all things Microsoft. Anything else they stick their fingers in their ears and go 'la-la-la-la can't hear you!'.

When you try and talk to them rationally they clam up or resort to MS market-speak (the 'Get The Facts' bull mentioned elsewhere).

I think this is the deliberate attitude that MS instills in it's drones, and very effective it is too.

Funny how you can reverse this statement for Linux and Apple users too. :rolleyes:

I use both ArchLinux and Vista. Both have strengths and weaknesses. I use Linux for work and Windows for gaming.

[rockface]

Funny how you can reverse this statement for Linux and Apple users too. :rolleyes:

I use both ArchLinux and Vista. Both have strengths and weaknesses. I use Linux for work and Windows for gaming.

Yes I know. I did rather say as much in a reply to my own reply on this very thread. I made the comment just in case someone such as yourself implied bias on my part.

I know many people with the 'if it's not Microsoft, it's not possible' attitude. And to say otherwise is a lie.

I have talked to these people face to face, on IRC, MSN etc. They simply do not want to know what goes on outside the Redmond reality bubble. This is an absolute fact.

Just as you get individuals that are this way with Apple/Linux/*BSD , Microsoft have their blind faith fanbois too. These are the drones of whitch I speak. They DO exist, and in larger numbers than you think.

And for the record I use Windows/Linux/*BSD/{insert alternative OS here} on a regular basis. Each has a set of tools I need to perform a specific task. I would not use Windows for a server. I would not game on Linux.

My point is that some people do indeed hate Linux. They do so even when it is proven beyond refute that Linux/FOSS would do a better job under specific circumstances.

Maybe I should have made the distinction between 'User' and 'Drone', my bad.

I know I have made mistakes by not reading an entire thread and commenting on it.

Nice to see I'm not alone...:lolflag:

[GTengineer]

Yes I know. I did rather say as much in a reply to my own reply on this very thread. I made the comment just in case someone such as yourself implied bias on my part.



I know I have made mistakes by not reading an entire thread and commenting on it.

Nice to see I'm not alone...:lolflag:

You post what you post, I don't need to read through 6 pages of flip flopping.

[rockface]

You post what you post, I don't need to read through 6 pages of flip flopping.

Maybe you should. Then you would know what you are commentating about and the proper context in which it was used.

Although you say you use Arch Linux, you admit to using Microsoft products in the workplace. If you read my second reply (which I re-quoted) you would have realised I also advocate the best tool for the job. Alas you did not and you sound like the very people I have issue with that I stated in my initial reply...

...but as you correctly pointed out, I'll post what I post!!