install for noobies, wtf?!? :-)

[kabanta]

Well, I've downloaded and done a clean install of Breezy. Nice! And kudos to the ubuntu team.

Now -- suggestion for Dapper: create a more user-friendly install-process

What do I mean. Well, the kinds of changes that have been made on the desktop (oriented at the "typical user") do NOT seem reflected in the install process. The install process seems to say to the average user:


Ignore how you feel about this (terrifying) 1988-era set of install-screens

"TRUST US" when you don't know what something means (ie, "accept default")

You are an idiot (or power-user) for wanting to do anything except BLOW AWAY EVERYTHING on your current computer


This last point is perhaps the most surprising. Why, at this late stage, does the Ubuntu install-process force a user to do "manual partitioning" as the main alternative to replacing everything? Surely the install process could (at least) offer to manage two additional TYPICAL situations:


user has CONTENT on an existing partition
user has a second OS on an existing partition


suggestions:



yes, make the install process a little more graphically sophisticated (with more options, feedback, etc.)
add some more structure at the point about partitioning and formatting (example: "it seems like you have an enemy OS on another partition, do you want to keep it? oh, you do, well here is how it maps to the partitions, should we install ubuntu on one of the other ones? what, you don't know that you need to select / as the mount-point in order for the partition to boot ubuntu? no worries, if you choose a partition, we'll manage that part for you. etc.")


just a thought ;)

[aysiu]

You may be interested in reading the Why is a graphical installer low priority? thread (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=73980&highlight=priority+low)

[~J~]

Just my little points regarding the installer...

Whether it's graphical or not, the one thing about the installer is it's fast! I love it, it asks me some dead-easy questions, I answer, and that's it.

If I were an expert on Linux (maybe next year :)) then the 'advanced' options I'm sure would open up some more questions, but I'm a "n00b" and so need things given in simple terms.

Having said that, the only thing I found confusing, whether this was NOT reading the installation instructions (which I'm confident not that many people do if they are honest), but my only question of "What the hell?" were those little symbols on my partitions.

What does the flash mean? What does that little alien character mean?

IF, and it's a big IF, the installation interface were graphical, and using a mouse, then I'm sure the developers could either

a) Code in some kind of tooltip that would show what these little icons means
b) Because the interface would be 'graphical', perhaps different font-sizes (aka the small print ;)) could say what these icons mean.

As it stands however, the installation interface is text-based, and thus doesn't appear to have the above two options.

I DO fully appreciate that for the majority of Linux experts or even people who have used Linux/Ubuntu for a number of months and are still beginners themselves, that they may well know what these symbols mean. BUT...

From a totally Linux-Virgin point of view, this I felt was the only thing regarding the installer that perhaps was daunting.

HTH.

[gpw797]

The ubuntu installer is awesome, it doesn't have flashy colors , but who needs flashy colors? An installer is all about something that works on a WIDE variety of machines. As for those that don't know what is on their hard drives.. do those people really need to be installing linux? It does recognise existing OSs on hard drives and adds those apps to grub automatically. What else do you need?

I can do a ubuntu install and upgrade in about 15% of the time it takes me to do the same in windows. :p

[darkside]

I'm pretty sure this is what you have in mind:

average user = M$ Window$ user

which follows average = M$ Window$

but Ubuntu > M$ Window$

so Ubuntu > average

and so therefore

Ubuntu user > average user

;)

[kvidell]

Since I can't reply on that thread linked above since it's on an old "legacy" forum ;P
I'm going to reply here...


Before anyone goes and makes any graphical installer, which I feel is unneeded for many of the reasons covered in that thread... I want to see some KickStart/JumpStart/PXE support in the Debian installer.

I often install on identical systems, or at least use many of the same options... it would be nice if I could just do it once, pop in a floppy and the CD, or just the CD and have it read the ks script off of the dhcp server... and let it fly on it's own. I could be much more productive with such a configuration..

Is this possible and I've just assumed it wasn't there and missed it or do I have something? :-P

[UbuWu]

Before anyone goes and makes any graphical installer, which I feel is unneeded for many of the reasons covered in that thread... I want to see some KickStart/JumpStart/PXE support in the Debian installer.

Is this possible and I've just assumed it wasn't there and missed it or do I have something? :-P

Yeah, you missed it ;) : http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/doc/manual/en/ch04s06.html

[Kyral]

NCurses is sexy ;P

[BoyOfDestiny]

NCurses is sexy ;P

Agreed!

[lean]

The problem is that there is a _lot_ of work getting good resizing working. First of all nobody really knows how to defragment, resize and so on on NTFS. x
We don't even know how to create files on NTFS.
It also takes a lot of time to resize an NTFS partition - something users would get irritated by.

If we knew how to create files on NTFS, we could just create a bunch of files on the Windows partition, and use them as partition for Ubuntu. The system will not get slower by this (I have tried) since the harddrive is the slow part in this equation, and it only takes some more CPU power to do this .

Also if there isn't enough space on the host system, we should give some help in cleaning up! Remove those temp files from Windows, help with backing up files and so on. Give an overview of what uses all that space.
Windows uses an unique program to remove installed programs, so it is not possible to remove installed programs :/
Maybe MSI packages have a strict format for installing/removing programs, so this could be exploited to show what to remove.

[Stormy Eyes]

kabanta, have you ever installed Windows yourself? The initial steps of the installation are done in text mode. Most Windows users have never installed Windows; they get it preinstalled, remember?

[bhursey]

kabanta, have you ever installed Windows yourself? The initial steps of the installation are done in text mode. Most Windows users have never installed Windows; they get it preinstalled, remember?


I was thinking the same thing... Most of the windows installer is dos...... :p

http://www.computer-and-printer-reviews.com/images/xpi8.gif

[az]

If the OS you currently have is partitionable (i.e. you do not have a mangled partition table (I refer to Partitoin Magic, here)) the default option in breezy is to shrink that partition from you.

By default, you are not offered the manual partitoining option. It is however always available.

[aysiu]

Most Windows users have never installed Windows; they get it preinstalled, remember? Don't forget that a lot of Windows users think they've installed Windows because they've used "restore" CDs that come with their computer that either restore a disk image to the hard drive (as my eMachines restore CDs do) or include the OS, all the necessary drivers, and codecs (as my old Dell laptop did). That's like saying you "made" a microwave pizza because you put it in the microwave.

Real Windows installations (baking the pizza from scratch) have caused me nothing but trouble.

[stoffe]

Don't forget that a lot of Windows users think they've installed Windows because they've used "restore" CDs that come with their computer that either restore a disk image to the hard drive (as my eMachines restore CDs do) or include the OS, all the necessary drivers, and codecs (as my old Dell laptop did). That's like saying you "made" a microwave pizza because you put it in the microwave.

Real Windows installations (baking the pizza from scratch) have caused me nothing but trouble.
Actually, I have never had any trouble with the actual installation. It's when I try to use what's installed that the problems usually start. :cool:

The Windows installers are really, really straightforward and easy if you take into account that it is meant to utterly destroy any competition on the drives (this is by design). :)

[aysiu]

Actually, I have never had any trouble with the actual installation. It's when I try to use what's installed that the problems usually start. :cool:

The Windows installers are really, really straightforward and easy if you take into account that it is meant to utterly destroy any competition on the drives (this is by design). :) Same here. All of my Windows installation woes have had to do with drivers and configuring stuff afterwards (all those yellow exclamation marks in the hardware section of the control panel). The actual base installation is easy for any OS, as long as you don't have a corrupted disk.