Windows 7. Modular at a cost. What will you do?

[toupeiro]

So if you do not know already. Windows 7 has been announced as the replacement to Windows Vista. Also, the release date for Windows 7 has been moved ahead of schedule almost 1.5 years.

Windows 7 is again, a reinvention of Microsofts desktop product. More and more, they are taking core designs of Linux and UNIX and implementing them into their own system. Windows 7 will be a completely modular Windows operating system, sopposedly giving you the most minimalistic necessities, (uncertain of what they will de-integrate from the kernel as it exists today) and allowing you to stack around that. Sounds great right? Well, being microsoft, there is a catch..

Modular from Microsoft means you will have to pay annually for the use of your core additions. Imagine for a moment, having to pay microsoft annually to use the accelerated graphics capabilities of your new video card, or if you are more of a performance enthusiast, being charged per core, and per GB of ram above the core OS supported amount?

How do you feel the public will embrace this model?

[LaRoza]

Given the past actions of MS, it is impossible to say what the product will be like.

Look at Vista (Longhorn) was supposed to be, and what it is. Assume it will be late and have many feature missing.

It is impossible to speculate what it will be like.

They have yet to release Vista (they did the name, but not the product), so I am guessing they have to deliver that first.

[toupeiro]

Fair enough. However, I think their current goals with the OS are enough to have an opinion :)

I might be in a position to get my hands on an early beta this year, but it will likely be enterprise, and therefore not as buttoned up as what retail could expect. Still, I would be interested to hear about your opinion, or anyone elses, about what has been made known of their plans for Windows 7.

[LaRoza]

I might be in a position to get my hands on an early beta this year, but it will likely be enterprise, and therefore not as buttoned up as what retail could expect. Still, I would be interested to hear about your opinion, or anyone elses, about what has been made known of their plans for Windows 7.

MS isn't releasing much information on it, so it is mostly speculation.

WIth Vista, they failed to deliver, now they are being quiet so no one knows how much they are failing to deliver.

I envision it as a clean up of Vista. Let us know when you try it.

[sayakb]

I wonder if they would implement the "No 32-bit" policy. Wouldn't it be too early since there are huge number of P4s and Dual Cores that don't have a 64-bit architecture..?

[Midwest-Linux]

All I know If it runs as fast as Xubuntu, has the compatibility of XP, and only needs 512 MB Ram, sells for under $99 and have no DRM or WGA it will be a good success. I really have no interest in Vaporware 7, or especially anything modular or paying extra for anything. Windows 2000 and XP were MSFT's shining moments however. Maybe they should look back before moving forward.

[LaRoza]

All I know If it runs as fast as Xubuntu, has the compatibility of XP, and only needs 512 MB Ram, sells for under $99 and have no DRM or WGA it will be a good success. I really have no interest in Vaporware 7, or especially anything modular or paying extra for anything. Windows 2000 and XP were MSFT's shining moments.

Yes, this whole thing speaks of Vapourware.

[Bungo Pony]

the release date for Windows 7 has been moved ahead of schedule almost 1.5 years.

...according to Bill. However, the people who actually work at MS have more or less stated that Bill was talking out of his ***.

[insane_alien]

i don't mind the idea of modularity but i absolutely loathe the idea of subscriptions(though maybe if you only had to pay them for like 5 months and then you were fine or something, that would be acceptable, maybe even desirable)

[heartburnkid]

Ugh.

I make it a point not to buy into "software as a service", whether it's Norton, Cedega, or now apparently Microsoft.

The OS model here is a good idea; the business model is a terrible one. You tell people that they are going to have to pay Microsoft every year to use their own computer, and maybe we'll get another wave of switchers.

[whitefang5412]

Since switching to linux I refuse to pay for anything. Windows 7 would be nice if it was a linux operating system, but modified to run with windows applications with 0 problems. Just click and download, but hopefully they wont depreciate use of the command line, also they need to keep it under 50 bucks....but this is all a dream.

[rickyjones]

So if you do not know already. Windows 7 has been announced as the replacement to Windows Vista. Also, the release date for Windows 7 has been moved ahead of schedule almost 1.5 years.

Windows 7 is again, a reinvention of Microsofts desktop product. More and more, they are taking core designs of Linux and UNIX and implementing them into their own system. Windows 7 will be a completely modular Windows operating system, sopposedly giving you the most minimalistic necessities, (uncertain of what they will de-integrate from the kernel as it exists today) and allowing you to stack around that. Sounds great right? Well, being microsoft, there is a catch..

Modular from Microsoft means you will have to pay annually for the use of your core additions. Imagine for a moment, having to pay microsoft annually to use the accelerated graphics capabilities of your new video card, or if you are more of a performance enthusiast, being charged per core, and per GB of ram above the core OS supported amount?

How do you feel the public will embrace this model?

So you know for a fact that Microsoft will be charging for various modules of this new operating system? Please oh please oh please, you must show me your secret for reading peoples minds and for seeing into the future.

At this point no one knows what Microsoft will be doing with a modular OS. For all you know by modular OS Microsoft means that only a base system will be installed and then you can add on other options when you feel it is necessary. For example, as a gamer I may opt to install the base system + DirectX functionality. If I was a media person I may install the base system + DirectX + Windows Movie Maker.

I'm tired of FUD without facts.

Sincerely,
Richard

[IsawSp4rks]

Yes, this whole thing speaks of Vapourware.

How I wish that were true. I'd much prefer that it was Vapourware. I feel that MS will be ramping up their 'software as a service' roadmap before we know it. Their new kernel is tentatively titled MinWin (http://www.jkontherun.com/2007/10/minwin-a-small-.html) and to my mind the smaller footprint is less about optimisation of RAM usage for performance and much more about Web 2.0 integration. I do hope I'm wrong.

Windows 7 lecture (http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/conference/2007/video/UIUC-ACM-RP07-Traut.wmv) by MS Distinguished Engineer Eric Traut (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/de/Traut/default.mspx)

(I haven't looked at the lecture yet)

[toupeiro]

So you know for a fact that Microsoft will be charging for various modules of this new operating system? Please oh please oh please, you must show me your secret for reading peoples minds and for seeing into the future.

At this point no one knows what Microsoft will be doing with a modular OS. For all you know by modular OS Microsoft means that only a base system will be installed and then you can add on other options when you feel it is necessary. For example, as a gamer I may opt to install the base system + DirectX functionality. If I was a media person I may install the base system + DirectX + Windows Movie Maker.

I'm tired of FUD without facts.

Sincerely,
Richard

Well, Richard..

You can start here. (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220060282899%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20060282899&RS=DN/20060282899) Which is a US patent for a "pay as you go" Operating System filed by Microsoft, continued by the point that I have been told casually by Microsoft Business Partners that this is the planned model for Windows 7. Personally, if you don't believe me, that really doesn't put a dark forecast on my day, nor would it put a dark forecast on my day if I was misinformed. Excuse me if you feel facts are confined to what google tells you only. Unless you have some solid evidence to disprove my statements, you can file your conjecture under IDC and try sticking to the subject matter.

Sincerely,
Not Richard.

[rickyjones]

Well, Richard..

You can start here. (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220060282899%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20060282899&RS=DN/20060282899) Which is a US patent for a "pay as you go" Operating System filed by Microsoft, continued by the point that I have been told casually by Microsoft Business Partners that this is the planned model for Windows 7. Personally, if you don't believe me, that really doesn't put a dark forecast on my day, nor would it put a dark forecast on my day if I was misinformed. Excuse me if you feel facts are confined to what google tells you only. Unless you have some solid evidence to disprove my statements, you can file your conjecture under IDC and try sticking to the subject matter.

Sincerely,
Not Richard.

Thank you for the link to the patent. Very interesting read. Although, I must say, I did not read a single instance in the patent that stated that Microsoft would be charging customers any more than they do now.

Reading through the patent it does paint a pretty nifty idea, however. In fact I would almost compare it to Linux. It proposes that the kernel and basic system is available and then the provider makes modules available that add functionality. Higher memory limits. Better hardware support. Graphical interfaces. Etc...

Almost sounds similar to what I've heard people ask for from Microsoft. A modularized operating system that they can customize to their needs.

Would it really be a bad thing if Microsoft released the basic kernel for free to whomever wanted it and then would sell you different add-ons depending on your needs? Running a web server? Well then all you need is the basic kernel and the web server application module. Sounds interesting to me.

But wait, obviously the average joe will probably not understand what this means or how to do it. So I'm willing to put it on the table that OEMs will take care of putting together a base package that is installed on the majority of computers, just like it is today.

Which in essence means that for the average user, nothing will change. But the advanced users will be able to save costs by only purchasing what they need for their particular situation.

How the Linux community can spin this into a bad thing is beyond me...

To conclude: I still haven't seen anywhere that says that this is the definite way that Vista is going, but I would personally welcome it. And yes, I do rely on official news briefs from Microsoft that you can find via Google and the likes in order to determine if Microsoft is going on way or another. I'm sure you can understand that.

Sincerely,
Richard

[ShodanjoDM]

Windows 7 = MSLinux?

Hehe, I won't be surprised that they'll attempt to change public perceptions that they "invented" the whole modular concept by themselves.

As for me, I simply lost interest in any MS product, not that they're that bad, but I just don't see the point to to follow their "upgrade path" - that is, upgrading the software almost always means buying a new pc...

[quickshade]

I laugh at the mere fact that someone basis a fact on a patient. I think you don't realize how many patients people place on everything just so they can. MS always tries to grab up patients for stuff they may never use, since one day it may come in handy......When you have millions of dollars just to blow on anything why not invest in something that may save you money in the future (Hint: Video game companies do it often, along with hardware companies)

As for the you know a guy......when will people learn. I could easily say I know a project lead for windows 7 and he said thats not true. You can't prove or dis prove that since you don't know that. In fact this business guy doesn't know much consider the fact that many windows developers have said that most of windows 7 ideas haven't been fully released inside the company. Which leads me to believe that Bill was talking out of his *** again....Just like he did with Halo 3.

The kernel should be pretty sweet if they do what they say they are. Alot of the UI and other features are being offloaded from the kernel and to the OS in general which should speed it up alot. I don't see them charging for add-ons considering if they do what you described in your first post they would be screwed. I know perfectly well that Linux could kill windows if they made that mistake....BUT windows hires some pretty smart people so I would highly doubt that if we think it's a bad idea (plus anyone else you told that Idea to would also think the same) that some guy in MS thinks it's great. Windows seven holds promise. They admit Vista wasn't great, Have to catch up to what linux can do in SOME spots and need to badly refresh the UI they have. But if some of the features they promise end up working out....It shall put windows back in the fight with Linux.

As for the 2009 prediction. I still doubt it. I think early 2010 (like how Vista was) would work the best for them. But again, until you have a product to start fully testing, your only setting goals to reach right now, not a release date. Once an OS gets to testing is when you can really gauge a release date.

[toupeiro]

You're welcome to laugh all you want. :) You're not the first person in this thread to think what I've written was written as fact, and were quite ready to start flogging me to that effect. Find anywhere in this thread where I've called my statements a fact and I will be the first to correct myself.

I said I spoke with a Microsoft Business Partner face to face, not just with some guy. If I were citing your comments, then I would have been citing some guy. Someone contracted from Microsoft, standing next to me, assigned to assist in long term Microsoft infrastructure development carries more weight than John Doe Internet User. Suffice it to say, I would put more merit in a Microsoft Employee in his position, in person, than a random blog headline. As you've said, yes, you could have easily said You know someone on the windows 7 development team, and they contradicted my statements. However, I'm not someone who would waste keystrokes to make up some wild, baseless story, and judging by the way you presented that scenario, you are not either. Are my statements facts? No! Could things change? Sure!. Could this guy have been wrong all along? Absolutely. Do I believe his chances of accuracy are higher than someone not in his position? Yes, I do. Having worked in the industry over a decade now, I feel I have fair to good judgment on what a creditable source is. I'm somewhat sorry you feel the need to attempt a discredit my statements claiming a lack of fact, with your lack of fact.. I posed a friendly scenario to a community of Ubuntu users who partake in windows discussion! You act as if I spoke the word of Windows according to Microsoft, written in stone. If you happen to know something in detail about Windows 7, then share it. Trying to defame my sources or myself is uncalled for, and a bit childish. Perhaps you should remember that you are in an international forum with people at all levels of technical skill and position.. Don't be so quick to discredit someone just because YOU haven't heard it elsewhere first...

[rudihawk]

I hope they just make something stable and fast for a change. Get rid of all the bloat, maybe they will go Open Source!

[Dr. C]

I am also of the opinion that Microsoft is moving towards a subscription based modular approach ot selling Windows. How far will this occur in Windows 7 will depend to a large extent on the kind of competitive pressure that Microsoft feels in the marketplace.

Microsoft is already renting software. Software Assurance for Business come to mind. Keep in mind that Windows Vista Enterprise is only available through software assurance. http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/sa/benefits/vista.mspx They are also renting Windows in many emerging markets http://www.nytimes.com/idg/IDG_002570DE00740E18002573EE00551FB0.html http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/25/1357230&from=rss and http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080323-evidence-mounting-windows-7-going-modular-subscription.html. By the way Microsoft has a history of testing "improvements" in emerging markets. Product activation was first tested in emerging markets on Office 2000.

As to what I plan to do about this trend. No much really because i already made my move to Ubuntu back in the summer of 2006 a good five months before the release of Windows Vista. For me Windows is about the past, and GNU / Linux is the future. I used DOS / Windows as my primary OS since the early 1980's until 2006. Windows XP pro which which I keep around will be supported until at least 2014. By then GNU / Linux will have enough market share that will be as supported in the marketplace as Windows is today. I also run Windows 2000 and MS DOS 6.22 / Windows 3.1, but I have very little interest in Vista. When it comes to GNU / Linux on the other hand it is has to be the latest Ubuntu 8.04 even though it is still in beta.

[karellen]

So if you do not know already. Windows 7 has been announced as the replacement to Windows Vista. Also, the release date for Windows 7 has been moved ahead of schedule almost 1.5 years.

Windows 7 is again, a reinvention of Microsofts desktop product. More and more, they are taking core designs of Linux and UNIX and implementing them into their own system. Windows 7 will be a completely modular Windows operating system, sopposedly giving you the most minimalistic necessities, (uncertain of what they will de-integrate from the kernel as it exists today) and allowing you to stack around that. Sounds great right? Well, being microsoft, there is a catch..

Modular from Microsoft means you will have to pay annually for the use of your core additions. Imagine for a moment, having to pay microsoft annually to use the accelerated graphics capabilities of your new video card, or if you are more of a performance enthusiast, being charged per core, and per GB of ram above the core OS supported amount?

How do you feel the public will embrace this model?

I think the public will stick to Vista, at that time "the old good XP"