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nutz
April 6th, 2008, 05:30 PM
I don't feel like typing it again so I will just link to my original post.

How is my suggesting a vacation to another member an insult? Could someone explain what is insulting about suggesting someone take a vacation?

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=747215

p_quarles
April 6th, 2008, 08:37 PM
For the admins:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=746876
Also see:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4661828&postcount=24

nutz
April 6th, 2008, 09:05 PM
I was hoping for a response from someone other than p_quarles.

And please don't send me any more PM's p_quarles. You have made your point now let's see if the other admins agree with you. If they do then I will drop my case and refrain from suggesting vacations to other users in the future.

This isn't about the 'infraction point' I was given. It is about whether or not I did something that justifies being given one. I just don't see how what I said could be misconstrued as an insult by someone. And just now p_quarles sent me a PM asking what is wrong with me. Now that I find personally insulting…

Just for the record p_quarles there is nothing wrong with me.

jdong
April 6th, 2008, 10:22 PM
You seem like a troubled man. Have you considered taking a vacation?


Your exact quote is given above. I agree with p_quarles that the first part of that statement can be construed as a direct insult to another forum member, and therefore the infraction is valid.

nutz
April 6th, 2008, 11:46 PM
Your exact quote is given above. I agree with p_quarles that the first part of that statement can be construed as a direct insult to another forum member, and therefore the infraction is valid.

Anything can be construed as an insult and ultimately it comes down to how the person on the receiving end perceives it. But what if I had no intention whatsoever of it being used as an insult? What if I was in fact just stating an observation based on the crazy erratic behavior of someone? Does it even matter if I meant it as an insult? How exactly are we determining it was said with the intention of being an insult? Does the context under which it was said have any impact on the meaning of the statement?

The person that was directed at accused me of being some guy named Bill Snead and then went on to rant about how I broke into his house and took pictures of him and his wife while they were naked. Doesn't that sound like a troubled man to you?

KiwiNZ
April 7th, 2008, 12:13 AM
I concur with jdong with this . I also believe that you were aware of its meaning and intended it to be so.

Maybe one should resist the urge to reply in the heat of the moment .

nutz
April 7th, 2008, 12:16 AM
I concur with jdong with this . I also believe that you were aware of its meaning and intended it to be so.

Maybe one should resist the urge to reply in the heat of the moment .

Huh? There was no 'heat of the moment'. It wasn't intended to be an insult. Just an observation.

The guy it was directed at seemed troubled. He had mistaken my identity for some guy named Bill Snead and accused me of taking inappropriate pictures. I have never met this man so he is clearly either disturbed or troubled.

KiwiNZ
April 7th, 2008, 12:25 AM
Please cease further insults to the member concerned . This is not a vehicle to continue the insults . If they continue I will take further action

nutz
April 7th, 2008, 12:37 AM
What insults?

jdong
April 7th, 2008, 12:41 AM
It is not any of your business to label another member of this forums as troubled or disturbed -- this is clear-cut against the forum policies. Please cease this line of discussion immediately.

nutz
April 7th, 2008, 12:48 AM
It is not any of your business to label another member of this forums as troubled or disturbed -- this is clear-cut against the forum policies. Please cease this line of discussion immediately.

I was just talking about what happened. Isn't that what the Resolution Center is for? I didn't even mention any forum member’s names.

So I get one infraction for the insult and one infraction for trying to appeal the infraction?

KiwiNZ
April 7th, 2008, 12:53 AM
The second infraction was not for this. It was for opening another thread to challenge this in the Forum and to continue your insult of the member.

Our patience is not with out limit.

jdong
April 7th, 2008, 12:55 AM
It can be inferred who your comments were directed towards, and if he were reading this thread, it is even more frustrating because it is against the rules for him to respond.

But at any rate, that is not relevant to the original infraction -- the infraction was for insulting another member, and your post, whether you intended or not, was insulting to that person.

The second infraction was issued because you completely failed to take in the explanation and went forth to take your original statement even further.

Do you still fail to see how your original post can easily be taken offensively?

nutz
April 7th, 2008, 01:02 AM
No I don't see how my original statement can be taken offensively. It was not offensive to begin with...

And what was wrong with my other post? Was it too offensive? I know you guys are having fun with this and honestly I am too but is there anything you guys don't take offense to? I can't believe I have gotten away with as many posts as I have without offending you before this.

So any statement I choose to take offense to automatically becomes an offensive statement?

jdong
April 7th, 2008, 01:06 AM
No I don't see how my original statement can be taken offensively. It was not offensive to begin with...


Calling someone else troubled and disturbed is not offensive?



And what was wrong with my other post? Was it too offensive?


Even if you didn't think it was offensive, if you were told by the forum staff that it was offensive, why would you restate it again?



I know you guys are having fun with this and honestly I am too

Who's having fun? I'm sure not. I'm pretty sure KiwiNZ isn't finding this fun either.



So any statement I choose to take offense to automatically becomes an offensive statement?

If someone said that you were disturbed and troubled, we would take that as a direct insult in the same way we are handling this event.

nutz
April 7th, 2008, 01:14 AM
I didn't say he WAS troubled. I said he SEEMED troubled. There is a difference between the two.

Either way I can tell I have hit the wall with this so I am just going to get on with my life. But for the record there was no intention of insult, disrespect or any deformation of character. Anything deemed insulting about my statements is purely the result of their interpretation; not their intention.

jdong
April 7th, 2008, 01:18 AM
The distinction really isn't as great as you seem to think it is. At any rate, I am also disinterested in arguing this any further. Let's just all move along from this, and remember in the future to pay closer attention to the wording of your posts when saying something about someone in particular?

matthew
April 7th, 2008, 08:47 AM
I think that we should make clear a few things:
Even though the Resolution Center is the proper place to appeal infractions, sometimes the staff just doesn't buy your reasoning and is basically saying "Hey, this is the way it is. Stop arguing." Other times, arguments are appropriate. In the case of a user pleading ignorance on what's offensive or not, the staff ultimately make the call.
Despite some people's assertions to the contrary, not everything can be insulting. I know that if I say, "Thanks to everyone for helping me fix my wireless problem. Now I can finally use Ubuntu!" virtually no one will be insulted by the remark. If, however, I say, "What the hell is wrong with you people? Can't you see Windows is for intelligent people, and Ubuntu is for losers?" that a lot of people will be offended. Although there are some lines where it's a little blurry, the whole reason language works is a general consensus on what sentences mean, and people know in advance, for the most part, what will offend and what will not offend.
As hinted at in the last point, there are some blurry lines, especially on the internet, where written text doesn't always carry the inflections spoken words do, and where there are people from different cultures and subcultures, attaching various nuances to the same word or phrase. Where the line is blurry, you would best avoid infractions and warnings by erring on the side of what is least offensive or directly insulting to others.
Be aware that just because you are thick-skinned, others are not necessarily as insensitive to insults. There can be a difference between intent and impact. If the user you insulted is insulted, other users are reporting your post as insulting, and several staff members agree your post is insulting, then, for all intents and purposes on these forums, your post is insulting, even if you didn't mean it to be.