how ubuntu scared me to death; why I will wait a bit to install it again

[GuidoCalvano]

[FOREWORD]

This post is written with structure, but in a style I hope is entertaining. I find the interplay between living life in an inspiring way, and the enthusiasm it generates enabling me to, 1) inspire myself and those around me more and 2) procrastinate less, very important. Please see it as a courtesy to the reader, while I implore you to take it serious and to not judge the content on the style.

Without further ado, I present to you, my post.... enjoy ^^Y


[ENTERTAINING INTRODUCTION ^^Y ILLUSTRATING MY PREVIOUS OS EXPERIENCES]
I'm still shaking...

It seemed so beautifull...

Bout a year ago I installed ubuntu. Nasty Windows. Evil conniving windows.... Never again NEVER!!!!

Then I bought MacBook Pro. Even Better!! hmmm... user friendly...

Now nice mister Shuttleworth and his cuddly super hero friends make the best OS, better than MacOSX! Joy stains in my pantalons!

Sorry, back to reality, the lithium is kicking in... Another cup of coffee and it'll all be ok...

[MY USER EXPERIENCE AND THE PROBLEM]

But you have to understand that my macbook pro, with my diary on it and my music (for f*cks sake I think my will is on another machine but it I was thinking of changing it), just crashed real bad. It stopped booting. It didn't even show the apple logo. I just got the grey screen without the apple and then a cursor on a big black screen.

[HOW I MANAGED TO SOLVE IT]
Being a bit of a geek I didn't immediately despair. I just went nuts, but had enough experience with crazy windows shiz to do some technomancy. I popped in the Ubuntu install disk in the hope that it would boot the thing, didn't work, did the leopard install disk, didn't work, rebooted thinking oooo kaaaaay...... Houston.... houston!?.... moooooooooommmmmmmmmmyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!

But it did work! Apple logo, login screen all my precious data still under my finger tips! After changing pants :oops: ... I wrote this post.

[MANY USERS ARE GETTING A BAD USER EXPERIENCE!!!]
What have I done to cause this mayham? Very simple I used boot camp to create a new partition and installed ubuntu on it. I think I then put in the ubuntu CD and just followed the instructions. I just used guided install on my fresh partition, thats it.

I acted like a typical user. And I acted this way because both Ubuntu and MacOSX have protected me for so long now I can't forgot about the volitile ways of windows. My faith in Ubuntu on Mac got a big dent.


[TO MUCH EFFORT GETTING UBUNTU ALONGSIDE MACOSX]

Having found the forums I discovered that installing ubuntu requires following a whole a bunch of pages of install instructions. Why...... whyyyyyy!!!!!

And VMWare fusion doesnt do opengl graphics, and parallels was just a reeaaally big pain and barely ran at all (perhaps a bad torrent?). And this is precisely why I don't use windows. I hate doing all this boring uninspiring stuff to do creative programming/music making/art on my computer.


[HOW TO WIN MACOSX PEOPLE LIKE ME FOR UBUNTU]
So... as you all have gathered by now, I am quite emotionally unstable, and I can assure you, most of my friends are.
What would have helped is;

- if the ubuntu install disk did a sanity check before it continued. If I require this boot program, don't install ubuntu, tell me!
-->This can be remedied very simple, take a copy of that boot program and have it leave a breadcrumb somewhere that the ubuntu installer can detect it. If the ubuntu installer realizes it's on a mac it will raise a warning to the user. Change the official ubuntu advice to using that simple modified boot program. That way you can protect fools like me from myself :)

- turn the big nasty install manual into a nice and friendly shell script or better yet, a simple gui... Sure the first steps are easy, but if I understand correctly the command line hell that breaks loose if you want to use a bunch of features like 3d graphics is insane.

[CONCLUSION]

I think Ubuntu is the best OS out there, but MacOSX has better software, and I really want OSX software like GarageBand. I want to develop my life's work, the ultimate strategy game, for both platforms and I'd like to develop on Ubuntu (which I have on my immobile pc), but I need to work on my laptop so I can hang around my friends places and still have a life. That is crucial to me as it safeguards against procrastination, and keeps me inspired and enthusiastic ^^Y.

All these nasty install issues basically mean I will install Ubuntu some time later and for now I will accept the frustrations of creating my development environment on macosx rather than creating my development environment on Ubuntu/Linux/GNU, which is way more inspiring and to me one of the greatest accomplishment of (wo)mankind so far. I don't think there has ever been any engineering project ever in all our history where so many people volunteered, and completely shared the fruit of their labour. And the form of governance made all the ideological systems that just weren't practical work anyway; anarchy, communism and philosopher kings.

For that I am deeply endebted to you all, and I am sure that within half a year I will be working on Ubuntu again.

Yours in high regard,

Guido

[GuidoCalvano]

by the way, this is so odd... the other posts were at like 180 views a while ago, and now none of the views nor replies change at all...

[russo.mic]

I just wanted to offer my opinion, that none of your problems seemed related to Ubuntu. I run Ubuntu on my Macbook Pro almost flawlessly.

There is a CRC check on the install CD, should you have chosen to run it.

It's not the ubuntu dev's fault that the macbook has an EFI bootloader. Apple has the advantage of knowing exactly what hardware that OSX will be running on. I would have advised you install rEFIt (again, just my opinion). I find the bootcamp alt thing kind of annoying. (Plus I have Vista installed as well as OS X and Ubuntu)

I know it can seem intimidating install Ubuntu alongside OS X, but it's really not that hard. Like with any involved operation from building a baby crib to programing a VCR to installing a new OS, ALWAYS read the instructions before you dive in. One of the things I like most about Linux is the excellent community of users always wiling to offer any assistance possible.

Keep in mind, i've never heard of an instance where installing Ubuntu caused any hardware damage to an apple, and all it takes to protect yourself is a quick backup of your OS X partition, which I would recommend doing that out of good practice.

Again, not trying to be argumentative or abrasive, just offering some counterpoints to your post, so that other new users or potential new users have both sides of the coin.

Good luck, and hope to see you here again soon!

Russo

[cyberdork33]

Sorry

The point is that the software is open and i fit doesn't work you can modify it to make it work. They will not stop you from installing it on a toaster if you can get it working.

If you want a fancy script, make one. Things like that rely on a user making something.... That is what you call community support.

Unfortunately Apple using odd, locked hardware has a lot to do with your problems. If you want a machine that you know Ubuntu will work on without a hitch, you have to do some homework first... and maybe get a machine that is DESIGNED to run linux. Do you know why OSX runs so well on Macs? because everything is designed with that end result in mind (on the software and hardware side).

I don't know what you did, but doing as you say is all you really have to do... You say you used the "guided" install... That gives you an option to do a couple different things, both of which you probably did not want to do. BTW, rEFIt (that boot manager program) is not required for anything...

[GuidoCalvano]

Hey don't get me wrong, I know what macosx is doing. The difference between mac and windows is that mac is good at software design, not that they don't use smart corporate trickery. Personally I think the threat of mac is a lot larger should mac gain market dominance. And vista is messing up to say the least.
My Vista using roomies are salivating all over my macbook so I expect a real big surge in mac users in the next decade. This is in my opinion a good thing as long as mac doesnt beat windows completely (so most likely this is a good thing). I have nightmares about mac running the shots as windows does now. Better say bye to linux when that happens. Everything will be closed. Everything.
What I would hope to see in the near future is GarageBand and all the other kickass artistic software that runs on mac, running on ubuntu. In the long run I'd like to see smashing open source alternatives, that obliterate them :).
But right now I need to get moving with my own (open source) project and I believe I can offer the community a lot more building my life's work than by spending a week or two figuring out that install script. I really sock (can't use that other word now can I...) at os stuff and hardware stuff.

I'm a programmer, and relatively good at juggling with control flow and vector math/graphics/physics ^^Y. The reason I made the post is so you know how I work, and understand what is important for me. And I guarantee my crazy artist friends are a lot more demanding than I am. And they are all using macs. Just about every single one. And they are all activists and deeply driven by ethics
But you have to understand that they and I to a lesser extent don't have the time nor the skill to arrange and figure out all that stuff, nor do we expect that it is done for us. So as long as there are too many obstacles then ubuntu will not support us in our fight against the wrongs we see in the world. Using macosx is a good alternative because it is the best working environment and it will diminuish the number of windows users thus dividing our opponents (though I still have to explain to them that macosx is an opponent but they hate computers, so it will be hard to keep their attention).

[russo.mic]

I wasn't saying it is required, I just like having the Icons rather than having to hold down ALT to switch OSes with bootcamp.

Shampoo and Soap isn't required either, but sure is nice...for example.

Just my 2 cents.

Russo

[phildini]

For what it's worth, I had a bit of trouble getting Ubuntu on my MacBook Pro. I installed rEFIt, and that's works beautifully (better even than GRUB, perhaps), but getting partitioning working right was a bit of a nightmare until I found iPartition. Corialis (Coriolis?) makes a good product that allows you to create a bootable partition disk especially designed for Mac, and from there everything was gas-lined.

[cyberdork33]

I wasn't saying it is required, I just like having the Icons rather than having to hold down ALT to switch OSes with bootcamp.

Shampoo and Soap isn't required either, but sure is nice...for example
I was replying to what I assume the OP as referring to here:
- if the ubuntu install disk did a sanity check before it continued. If I require this boot program, don't install ubuntu, tell me!
-->This can be remedied very simple, take a copy of that boot program and have it leave a breadcrumb somewhere that the ubuntu installer can detect it. If the ubuntu installer realizes it's on a mac it will raise a warning to the user. Change the official ubuntu advice to using that simple modified boot program. That way you can protect fools like me from myself :)

but I completely agree, rEFIt is the best!

getting partitioning working right was a bit of a nightmare until I found iPartition. Corialis (Coriolis?) makes a good product that allows you to create a bootable partition disk especially designed for Mac, and from there everything was gas-lined.ipartition does cost quite a pretty penny to do something that you can do with gparted for free... (and even leopard's disk utility)

[GuidoCalvano]

I got it working :)

Still have a lot of mini tutorials to go through, but I'm looking at the sexy effects of compiz fusion...

Now watch my roomies drool...

[russo.mic]

Hey don't get me wrong, I know what macosx is doing. The difference between mac and windows is that mac is good at software design, not that they don't use smart corporate trickery. Personally I think the threat of mac is a lot larger should mac gain market dominance. And vista is messing up to say the least.
My Vista using roomies are salivating all over my macbook so I expect a real big surge in mac users in the next decade. This is in my opinion a good thing as long as mac doesnt beat windows completely (so most likely this is a good thing). I have nightmares about mac running the shots as windows does now. Better say bye to linux when that happens. Everything will be closed. Everything.
What I would hope to see in the near future is GarageBand and all the other kickass artistic software that runs on mac, running on ubuntu. In the long run I'd like to see smashing open source alternatives, that obliterate them :).
But right now I need to get moving with my own (open source) project and I believe I can offer the community a lot more building my life's work than by spending a week or two figuring out that install script. I really sock (can't use that other word now can I...) at os stuff and hardware stuff.

I'm a programmer, and relatively good at juggling with control flow and vector math/graphics/physics ^^Y. The reason I made the post is so you know how I work, and understand what is important for me. And I guarantee my crazy artist friends are a lot more demanding than I am. And they are all using macs. Just about every single one. And they are all activists and deeply driven by ethics
But you have to understand that they and I to a lesser extent don't have the time nor the skill to arrange and figure out all that stuff, nor do we expect that it is done for us. So as long as there are too many obstacles then ubuntu will not support us in our fight against the wrongs we see in the world. Using macosx is a good alternative because it is the best working environment and it will diminuish the number of windows users thus dividing our opponents (though I still have to explain to them that macosx is an opponent but they hate computers, so it will be hard to keep their attention).

I just wanted to chime in again, after further reading, The idea that linux is dead once mac beats windows is kind of like saying that once honda makes the new accord all other car manufacturers will all go out of business. People always want a choice. besides, LINUX belongs to everybody, thus, can't be "put out of business". you could say companies that release it and support it could, but LINUX will always be on the net, available for you to install on WHATEVER it is that you want, if your willing to put the work in. They can only "close" it to a certain point. Should I decide to buy a Macbook Pro IV, with OS Z on it 5 years from now, take it apart, figure out what hardware it's running on and code for it it's my choice. If you decide it's cool you can pitch in too. As long as the hardware is available for public use, and no EULA has yet to contest that, Were always in the free and clear.

But still, Canonical and SuSE will be doing just fine for a while to come. Too many people want choice, and too many corporations have gone linux over windows or OS X to go back now. Esp. since virtualization is becoming such a main stay for corporate servers.

Also: I would like to take this opportunity to tell you and your activist friends that Steve Jobs is the devil. Check out the latest wired. Good article.

Cyberdork: glad to see were on the same page, excuse my misunderstanding. Not the first time i've misunderstood you on these forums! Party foul on my part.


Russo

[cyberdork33]

Cyberdork: glad to see were on the same page, excuse my misunderstanding. Not the first time i've misunderstood you on these forums! Party foul on my part.
No hard feelings...

I am glad you made the last post... I wasn't going to touch it.