What is Microsoft coming to?

[Living2007]

Microsoft: friend or foe.

Is Microsoft still a user friendly company or are they just making money for no reason?

When Vista was released, Lots of people where ticked off by the UAC and Hardware Incapabilities. Part of that is been fixed with SP1.

And when Office '07 was releaed with the new GUI look and file formats, people had trouble locating other features and saving into the wrong file format.

Now even update ar taing me forever because they are so big. Grrr. I starting to feel like smashing this computer to bits.

Anyway, I have linux. Whats to worry me now. ARRRG A MELTDOWN!! My computer crashed.

(:lolflag: Just Kidding)

[LaRoza]

They never were user friendly...

[rickyjones]

Microsoft seems user friendly to me. I don't have any qualms with their software at the moment.

-Richard

[Living2007]

I've had heaps of problems from software because either i've made a mistake with a program or it just wont work properly.

Why cant Microsoft make software with less graphics because that is whats chewing up download space for the Setup program.

[NightwishFan]

As much as I like eye candy, Microsoft's operating systems give you almost no customization to it. You hardly ever have choice or control. The OS always assumes you do not know what you are doing and will deny your actions at times. User friendly does not only extend to the new users.

[atomkarinca]

Why cant Microsoft make software with less graphics because that is whats chewing up download space for the Setup program.

Then it wouldn't seem like a "real" program. Because a real good software is the one that does everything with a colorful GUI and hogs at least half of the system resources.

[Living2007]

Well, Live Messenger can change the color of the GUI. Besides, Live Messenger is and example of "Microsoft's large downoads for Colour GUI's" problem.

Why can't they create a basic version of Live messenger for al to download on Win98 and people on Dial-Up

[atomkarinca]

Actually I was just kidding. I don't know about Live Messenger but you can use some of the lightweight linux applications with Windows, too. For example emesene (http://www.emesene.org/) has a Windows port. And there are good Windows-only alternatives, too. As far as I can remember; Miranda IM is a good multi-protocol IM, Foobar2000 is a nice, simple and small audio player, Foxit Reader is a very lightweight Adobe Acrobat alternative, the list can be extended... I guess if you digg deeper you can find lightweight alternatives of the softwares you use.

[Living2007]

I alrady know that Linux programs can go onto Windows (eg. Firefox).

because of the freeware and other OS's their is WAR between Microsoft and Everyone

[Kernel Sanders]

The only qualms I have with Microsoft software is Price, WGA, and Product Activation. Stability, ease of use all get a tick in the box from me. I've had virtually NO problems with either XP or Vista.

Although they are pretty BIG qualms really :lol:

[SteveHillier]

As much as I like eye candy, Microsoft's operating systems give you almost no customization to it. You hardly ever have choice or control. The OS always assumes you do not know what you are doing and will deny your actions at times. User friendly does not only extend to the new users.

But isn't this the point.
Them out there, by which I mean not those in here are all ready to learn to adapt to what their machine and OS give them whereas....
Us in here, by which I mean not those out there, want to make the machine what we want it to do and are prepared to fix, fudge, kick and meld the machine and the OS until is suits us.
Them out there just want a computer as a tool to do a job and at that point their interest fails.
Us, we almost by definition have a greater intest in what make these things work and so our interest is beyond the "this is a tool for a job" mode.
Microsoft have always been more interested in giving them out there a tool that will do most jobs in an OK fashion.

[SteveHillier]

The only qualms I have with Microsoft software is Price, WGA, and Product Activation. Stability, ease of use all get a tick in the box from me. I've had virtually NO problems with either XP or Vista.

Although they are pretty BIG qualms really :lol:

Vista in a home environment as a single user machine seems to be OK. Put is a network on mixed platforms and it starts to creak and groan.
By the way, I have noticed that some of the problems (slowness in links etc) are also found in IE7, so a lot of the problems may well be that the extra processing required to run all the extra security features is the root cause in Vista. At work I often use my Gutsy w/s to access pages on the net because the Vista machine is just too slow

[NightwishFan]

So essentially they are giving us "Ok" software for money that we can of course get for free/freedom in other places? What is the advantage in that method, it only comes into play because of their monopoly. They can make what they want and people will blindly buy it because it is all they know.

[Living2007]

I wouldn't call Windows Live OneCare "Ok" because when it was almost at release stage, Australian PC User rated it 60/100 because it wasn't a good protecter from the latest viruses then.

[Dr. C]

Microsoft used to be very user friendly, but not any more and the consequences of this have been reflected in the stock price.

Consider a version of Microsoft Windows that did not have any DRM and did not even require a product key for installation. Did such a thing ever exist? Yes is did . The year was 1992 and the product Microsoft Windows 3.1.The underlying version of DOS were also free of product keys and DRM. At the time DRM was rampant in the software industry. It was called "copy protection" in those days and consisted among other things of deliberately creating bad sectors on 5.25in floppies; hence the term "defective by design". In those days one could avoid DRM by purchasing Microsoft Software!

Microsoft really started to go downhill after 2000 when the company really started to sink into the DRM abyss. As for the stock price it has not since been even close the the over $50 a share highs of December 1999. The billionaires and millionaires were created before the love affair with DRM.

[Living2007]

Whoa! A+ marks if you did an assignment on Microsoft.

I've tried Windows 3.1 but never installed it (What are DRM's?). Maybe because Windows was becoming popular, they did require Product Activation buy 1999 when Windows 2000 was release (Activiate Windows program)

[SteveHillier]

So essentially they are giving us "Ok" software for money that we can of course get for free/freedom in other places? What is the advantage in that method, it only comes into play because of their monopoly. They can make what they want and people will blindly buy it because it is all they know.

We do of course get a lot more for our money than we used to.
Hang on! Don't shoot me yet! I have a tale to tell.
Do you remember the heady days of DOS 2, probably not but I do.
MS-DOS 2.x cost £180 (pounds sterling) back in 1984. Equate this to today's money and we are talking what? £400? £500? and we got what? A command line OS to which we had to add device drivers for things like floppy disks and hard disks.
So Vista Home Basic at around £70 looks like a bargain.
But remember Microsoft are not selling to you and me. They are selling to a whole world of users that have no interest in how a computer does anything, who have no understanding beyond the power switch and the application they use and for that they will pay for the privilege of an operating system that the rest of the world are using. and why? because if it was no good no one would buy it would they!!
Take away Windows and what other viable commercial alternative is there?
I am not flying a flag for MS, just working with what all my customers use.

[NightwishFan]

I understand your point but you assume nothing could replace it (or replace it well) which is untrue. Microsoft will go out with a whimper and something will take its place.

[SteveHillier]

I understand your point but you assume nothing could replace it (or replace it well) which is untrue. Microsoft will go out with a whimper and something will take its place.

Of course if IBM had bought from Digital Research instead of Microsoft we would all be in a different place wouldn't we. (I assume you remember CP/M?)
No, I don't assume there is no replacement. I would like to see a credible alternative and Linux comes closer than most to fill this role. I just needs to make itself less geeky than it is.

[NightwishFan]

True. :)

[Living2007]

Of course if IBM had bought from Digital Research instead of Microsoft we would all be in a different place wouldn't we. (I assume you remember CP/M?)
No, I don't assume there is no replacement. I would like to see a credible alternative and Linux comes closer than most to fill this role. I just needs to make itself less geeky than it is.

Whoa! Hay! Who said IBM bought out Microsoft and what excactly is CP/M?

[CrazyArcher]

He didn't mean that IBM bought out MS, he meant that IBM bought OS license for their first PCs from them.

[Living2007]

I'm placing a pole very very soonn stating what is your favourite Microsoft OS. You may ask Y?, because you like Ubuntu is better, and yes it is, but I'm just curious.

Happy Teching

[Living2007]

He didn't mean that IBM bought out MS, he meant that IBM bought OS license for their first PCs from them.

Of course if IBM had bought from Digital Research instead of Microsoft we would all be in a different place wouldn't we. (I assume you remember CP/M?)
No, I don't assume there is no replacement. I would like to see a credible alternative and Linux comes closer than most to fill this role. I just needs to make itself less geeky than it is.

Still, what is CP/M?

[bsharp]

It was another DOS-like OS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP/M

[Living2007]

I find Microsoft very anying lately with my updates on XP Home. I'm running Firefox and don't want any downloads running in the background half the time because it slows the speed down to much on Dial-Up (even when large downloads are avaliable. (i.e.: .Net Framework 3.0)

[SteveHillier]

It was another DOS-like OS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP/M

and some would say a superior one.
certainly concurrent CP/M with 4 switchable workspaces was leaps and bound ahead of any MS based multi-tasking (or pseudo MT)

[CrazyArcher]

Well, I've had no serious issues with XP, using it at two machines at home (desktop and a laptop). I had only 2 annoying cases ever: setting up Ethernet connection between those 2 comps (got WiFi since then, got hooked seamlessly), and getting adware at the laptop (removed successfully). On both comps the OS runs smoothly and no formatting/OS-reinstallations were ever made. So, XP all the way. Don't have any serious experience with Vista, since my hardware specs are wa-a-ay under the required minimum, especially on the graphics department.

In fact, from my point of view, I have really no reason to use Linux. Why? I have no significant performance boost when I run Linux (if any at all), I don't have all kinds of bugs and issues with XP (on the contrary to Ubuntu, where I have Wine freezing my comp and Flash having issues, to name a few). So, I can name XP in no way "bloated" or "insecure". It's a good OS.

[bsharp]

and some would say a superior one.
certainly concurrent CP/M with 4 switchable workspaces was leaps and bound ahead of any MS based multi-tasking (or pseudo MT)

I don't know much about it (watched a video in my Computer Hardware class), but I know that DOS stole the drive lettering scheme from CP/M

[Midwest-Linux]

Microsoft is coming to a end of a era. Windows 2000 and Windows XP was their greatest accomplishments. With the failure of Vista, the ill conceived business decision of discontinuing XP Pro, the trouble with the EU and the Billion dollar lawsuit, the lawsuit over Vista capable, the vaporware talk of Windows 7, the SP1 woes, slashing prices on Vista to try to stimulate sales, EU now looking into OOXML voting irregularities. MSFT "might" be in a little trouble.


MSFT has other issues beyond its control. In many parts of the world, they are in a recession. Migrating to Vista isn't a given as MSFT would like it to be.

Many IT departments do not have the money to upgrade to Vista because of the hardware demands. Some corporations are still using Windows 2000, forget Vista. South Africa plans to go open source and it would save themselves $350 million in license fees. Russia plans to go all open source by 2010.


Adding to all of this, Apple sales are up big time. Linux is doing pretty good too. With Linux up 61 % according to a recent article, 9000 Swiss school laptops moving to Ubuntu Linux, 23,000 school laptops to Linux in the Philippines. The EePc laptops with Linux has been wildy successful....looks like maybe for the first time the old saying "Its a Windows World" may not hold true for much longer.

Want a simple benchmark? Look at Firefox, In just 3 1/2 years ...Firefox went from ZERO to 17% of the bowser share. Imagine what would happen if Linux went to 17% of the operating system share? Or just imagine even if Apple and Linux together had a 17% share? It is 2008, its not 1998 anymore and the landscape is very different now.

[CrazyArcher]

I agree that MSFT are going down, at least as far as OS department is concerned. The future prospects of XP beeing phased out in a few years were one of the reasons to try out Linux, which is probably our future. However, I don't consider Linux ready for massive infiltration into minds. One still has to be a geek in order to use it, plus it has too many issues. If it could work on virtually any PC configuration (like XP does), didn't require any CLI usage and was fully usable for an average Joe, it could be considered ready. As of now - sorry, it isn't.

[Bungo Pony]

Holy crap you guys make me feel old, not knowing what CP/M is! I was seriously considering learning how to program CP/M way back when, but I learned DOS instead because that's what all "current" machines were using.

MS's innovative peak was with Win95 which pretty much revolutionized the desktop, and as it's been pointed out, MS almost never innovated anything. DOS was a bastardized version of QDOS which MS purchased. MS was also behind when it came to having a GUI sit on top of DOS which is why Windows was developed. And what about IE? They bought that from someone too. Remember when MS used to "make" Antivirus products? They also purchased that.

And today we have Vista which is heavily based on MacOSX. MS is trying to "innovate" again by trying to purchase Yahoo to catch up with the internet. MS's way is usually to let some little guy do the innovating, then buy it from them. Kudos to Yahoo for saying NO.

[CrazyArcher]

Well, that's business... In many cases it's cheaper to buy than to develop from scratch. How about AAPL who ripped off FreeBSD to make Darwin kernel? How about FF ripping off features from Opera all the time? MSF weren't the first, and they won't be the last... Not that I'm trying to say that those actions are 100% valid, but that's how the world works.

PS: Office 2007 interface is innovative, and also awesome.

[SteveHillier]

I was seriously considering learning how to program CP/M way back when,

I did do some programming on CP/M in Fortran (makes me feel even older) - can't remember what happened to the code because I made a move to MS-DOS soon after.

Regarding disks. As I recall disks were numbered 0 & 1 etc but you did have to mount (or login) the disk to access it. Boy, if that had taken hold we probably would not have the virus problems we have to day!

[prshah]

I _used_ to like XP; but recently WGA has taken a sharp U turn from giving "the benefit of doubt to the user" to "I dont care what you know; I think it's illegal and so it is".

A quick example of how your WGA validated installation can become non-genuine in a second; just rename or move your sigverif.exe file. You're invalid. Not only that, new drivers will not install. Not only that, usb mass storage devices will not load, with a cryptic error message that come nowhere near to explaining the problem. (Cannot load device driver for "Volume"). sigverif is NOT protected by either/or hidden, read-only, or system attributes.

This is one in a thousand examples... and there are too many variables involved to ensure that nothing goes wrong.

I like ubuntu's license that serves to *unrestrict* it, rather than restrict it's usage.

Cheers to ubuntu.

[Living2007]

Microsoft is coming to a end of a era. Windows 2000 and Windows XP was their greatest accomplishments. With the failure of Vista, the ill conceived business decision of discontinuing XP Pro, the trouble with the EU and the Billion dollar lawsuit, the lawsuit over Vista capable, the vaporware talk of Windows 7, the SP1 woes, slashing prices on Vista to try to stimulate sales, EU now looking into OOXML voting irregularities. MSFT "might" be in a little trouble.

Well MSFT are trying to get Vista out as fast as they can, with nthe next Windows OS due to come out in the next year or so.

[Flying caveman]

I didn't find Vista all that bad after I turned all the stuff off so it looks and runs basically like XP with all the crap turned off. Its funny none of the new features have the classic theme, so they look out of place.

Voted for Windows 2000, weird that it doesn't have msconfig installed by default, and it would be nice if movie maker came with it. When I run XP, I always run classic style.

[shadylookin]

I liked windows xp the best. I find windows vista to be slow and hoggish and it doesn't run half the stuff I want. It's a shame given that they worked on it for half a decade, but XP was pretty bad until they released a service pack.

[lancest]

Many experts seriously doubt there will be a final MS OS 7 released next year. The reason Bill is saying this is to keep people from exploring alternatives like Apple or Linux. He knows Vista is a flop so he's trying to protect his monopoly. Though they have a mountain of cash they are losing on many fronts and making desperate attempts to ward off competition (like Yahoo deal). Their proprietary nature is killing them!
1. Web technology popularity- losing
2. Mobile devices- losing
3. Online services- losing
4. New OS- starting to lose their grip

I'm sure there are other examples.
If I was an investor I would sure wouldn't invest a dime with them

[W2IBC]

i liked XP ok... untill i started getting "bad" updates that caused serious issues....
after about a week of that crap i downloaded/burned/installed ubuntu 7.10 and never looked back.

i will never ever buy or get another micros*it product...

[Living2007]

despite vista's bad apples and sour grapes, their is still hope for Vista; used with people who are new to computers

[cprofitt]

And today we have Vista which is heavily based on MacOSX.

Not sure I would ever say MS copied OS X. Also, while Microsoft has bought things, they usually make use of them and 'improve' them... unlike some companies that bought WordPerfect when it was still the dominant office system only to let it die.

I also think OS X has copied or used a lot of open source code in their product and still manage to be more 'controlling' with their customers.

[Living2007]

Let's just say, all OS companies are at fault because everyone copies each other, they just lay things out differently.

Like Finder and Vista's Search. Same concept, different actions.

Finder is located in the Top-Right and locates everything on the drive related to the name.
Search is in the start-menu and explorer boxes and searches programs and dcouments

[sayakb]

Finder is located in the Top-Right and locates everything on the drive related to the name.
Search is in the start-menu and explorer boxes and searches programs and dcouments

Sorry but I didn't get you. As far as I knew, both Finder and Explorer search (not the start-menu search) could search anything: mp3s, documents, videos etc. related to the name entered (Haven't used Mac OS but I'm sure about this for Vista). Please correct me if I'm wrong..

[Living2007]

I haven't had a DECENT go at playing around with Vista and Leopard, But if could, I would point out the similarities and differences

But another, so called "stolen idea" from Apple was the translucent effect.

Well, in Leopard, When you minmize a program, it sricnks into the Dock, ojn widows it falls like paper and fades from the desktop and inverts that procces when reopened. same with Leopard. It inverts the procces.

[sayakb]

Plus the flip3d concept is similar for Vista and Leopard. People in our country say that vista is a copy of Leopard, where Aero being a copy of the Luna theme. Also personally, if you ask me, OSX performs better than Vista.

[Ravorion]

Well MSFT are trying to get Vista out as fast as they can, with nthe next Windows OS due to come out in the next year or so.

When I read this I was shocked. Is that for real ? Windows Vista just got out basically and is barely working properly when it comes to software and drivers and there is already talk about a new Windows OS being released ?!

I guess thats also a way to make money. Have people constantly switching OS systems every couple of years. :confused:

[SteveHillier]

.... but XP was pretty bad until they released a service pack.

I installed SP1 on my VIsta Business machine yesterday. I can see very little differnece except that it now seems to run even slower!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NightwishFan]

xpsp1 is supposed to be fast but it is the most sluggish OS ever. I remember I had a system with 128mb ram that wouldn't load the start menu within 20 seconds and one with amd athlon and 480mb ram that was slow and refused to run newer apps like ie7 or itunes. The first one now runs puppy and the second Xubuntu.

[phenest]

Well, that's business... In many cases it's cheaper to buy than to develop from scratch. How about AAPL who ripped off FreeBSD to make Darwin kernel? How about FF ripping off features from Opera all the time? MSF weren't the first, and they won't be the last... Not that I'm trying to say that those actions are 100% valid, but that's how the world works.

PS: Office 2007 interface is innovative, and also awesome.

That's not the same. Most companies just copy others. Nothing wrong with that. But MS will buy complete rights to something and then call it their own.

I've been running Ubuntu for 1½ years now, but I do have a dual boot with XP for development work. On XP is Vista Ultimate running as a VM which is for testing my work. When I boot up XP, I get this cold shiver down my spine. I dislike Windows completely now.

I cannot vote in this poll.

Whenever someone asks me to help fix Windows, I now tell them "no". I only deal with Linux/Ubuntu.

I openly encourage the use of Linux. Why? Because, like some, I can see MS is in trouble. I will not be surprised if there is no Windows 7, or if Windows 7 is so bad, no one wants to use it any more.

[Living2007]

Plus the flip3d concept is similar for Vista and Leopard. People in our country say that vista is a copy of Leopard, where Aero being a copy of the Luna theme. Also personally, if you ask me, OSX performs better than Vista.

Your probably in the States, I'm in Oz, as you people call it. With a population of 22 Million, 20% seem to wonder about Vista and Leopards copied ideas. Who knows the amount of people who just go with Linux because of this qwale

[Living2007]

I installed SP1 on my VIsta Business machine yesterday. I can see very little differnece except that it now seems to run even slower!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

XP became 2-3% slower when SP3 was installed

[phenest]

There is nothing wrong with copying ideas if you do it well.

MS would do well to copy Apple, and develop a Unix based OS.

[LaRoza]

There is nothing wrong with copying ideas if you do it well.

MS would do well to copy Apple, and develop a Unix based OS.

I agree. But they don't copy well.

[Living2007]

There is nothing wrong with copying ideas if you do it well.

MS would do well to copy Apple, and develop a Unix based OS.

Is OS X is running on Unix, what is Microsoft running on?

What is Unix and how do you get the coding?

[LaRoza]

Is OS X is running on Unix, what is Microsoft running on?

What is Unix and how do you get the coding?

OS X is a certified Unix. Microsoft runs on an NT based kernel.

Unix is not a single OS, it is a specification. The code of the original Unix is not really used, although some of the code was in BSD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix

[Living2007]

Why are Microsoft increasing the size of it's updates. They are giving me .Net Framework SP's for 1.1, 2.0 and a update for 3.0. Each update would take me 4-5 Hours on a 56K modem.

Why do they give me such s___.

[rickyjones]

Why are Microsoft increasing the size of it's updates. They are giving me .Net Framework SP's for 1.1, 2.0 and a update for 3.0. Each update would take me 4-5 Hours on a 56K modem.

Why do they give me such s___.

It's a conspiracy against users on a slow internet connection.

...

Or maybe software packages continually get larger as new features are added. Do you also complain about the size of an update when Ubuntu releases an updated package of Openoffice?

Sincerely,
Richard

[Mulenmar]

I use Windows Vista on my newest computer -- but only because 1. It can handle it and 2. Elder Scrolls 3 doesn't run on Linux and 3. I don't have WINE.

Otherwise, when it comes to Windows, I use either Windows 98 SE w/the Unofficial Service Pack 1, or I use a cool program called 98SE2ME to merge in updated files from WinME. (Features without the problems...hypthetically, anyway.) But NOT for super-critical stuff, Win32's error trapping methods are as effective as using a paper filter to stop a herd of zebras.

(If you're wondering what I'm talking about, check out www.Mdgx.com -- it talks a lot about tweaking Windows to increase perfomance and stability. Hundreds of Windows updates, for every Win32 version. But I'd still rather use Xubuntu.)

[phenest]

Why are Microsoft increasing the size of it's updates. They are giving me .Net Framework SP's for 1.1, 2.0 and a update for 3.0. Each update would take me 4-5 Hours on a 56K modem.

Why do they give me such s___.

This is interesting. There are 3 different versions of .Net. Why? Can't an app written with .Net 1.1, work with 3.0? I guess not.

Why does a Vista take up over 6GB of HD space? Talk about bloated. All that, and it does less than Ubuntu.

Each version has a different folder hierarchy, dll's vary, resources change or vanish. A lot of API's are undocumented.

If MS could focus on structure, documentation, and standardisation, it would at least be better for developers.

[markharding557]

i believe ms will be forced by competition from linux and mac to make their buggy and slow product better just as they did with ie due to competition from firefox

[NightwishFan]

Microsoft's market share comes from the common false belief that, Windows IS what a computer is.

[Living2007]

This is interesting. There are 3 different versions of .Net. Why? Can't an app written with .Net 1.1, work with 3.0? I guess not.

Why does a Vista take up over 6GB of HD space? Talk about bloated. All that, and it does less than Ubuntu.

Each version has a different folder hierarchy, dll's vary, resources change or vanish. A lot of API's are undocumented.

If MS could focus on structure, documentation, and standardisation, it would at least be better for developers.

Microsoft are just a company who don't care if you already have other type of programs and just expect you to use their software. You can have a slow connection of the internet, for example, and they just make the computer to download all the high-priority updates.

(It would currently take me 12 hours to get all my High-priority Updates.)

[nge]

There are 3 different versions of .Net. Why? Can't an app written with .Net 1.1, work with 3.0

The same goes with the damned M$XML.

It always seems that they love hogs. For example, to make my WXP looks even remotely close to my Compiz-enabled Gutsy, it takes at least 25% more RAM and a bunch more HD space. (while Gutsy does it by default install, which is 2.2 GB, while my Windoze install goes as far as 4+ GB) Not to mention than OOo comes as standard in Gutsy, while we have to spare an extra of at least 1.1 GB of space for Office 2007 in WXP. The other thing to point is that nVidia drivers for Windows has a huge 58~ MB's of download, while for Debian it's only 16~ MB.

The reason of why I keep my WXP installation is :
1. Because some applications I used for work does not have a Linux port.
2. Because maybe I somewhere, somehow need to open something intended solely for Windows.

And to quote some other people in the WWW (forgot who)

"Microsoft is a company who is willing to lose money only to make sure that you don't make any"

Hmm.. I suppose that a good company is "willing to lose money only to make sure that you are satisfied with their product and its support", right ?

And if anyone knows the software AutoPatcher, it's even more frightening. They ARE willing to lose money to make Windows users more INconvenient.

[CrazyArcher]

I think that problem with MS is that they've become too large, leading to internal corruption. I'm sure that there is a plenty of good developers wishing to deliver a good products, but at the end their initiative is negated by internal power struggles and crap like that. Sometimes the "better guys" can implement their best intentions, like in the Office 2007 case, but unfortunately it's a solitary case. My take is that without reorganization and a major reality check MS will last for a decade at most, crashing under its own weight and inefficiency.

[SteveHillier]

i believe ms will be forced by competition from linux and mac to make their buggy and slow product better just as they did with ie due to competition from firefox

That of course may be but what is the main concern is when.
Unfortunately for most of the world out there they only have one Windows into computing and as much as we, the enlightened but ever increasing few, might like to promote alternatives the reality is that most people will stick with what they know and will not take the step towards enlightenment.
Bring on the competition. Let's have the tussle and let's hope MS make progress quickly.

ps Further to my earlier post about the slowness of Vista since installing SP1. I am experiencing more than a 2-3 % reduction. I am currently finding that to load a single web page where the html file is 19K which include but two small images of about 2K each is taking some 20 seconds to load and display in IE7. Admittedly the files are on a network disk on my domain server but even so.....

[rickyjones]

ps Further to my earlier post about the slowness of Vista since installing SP1. I am experiencing more than a 2-3 % reduction. I am currently finding that to load a single web page where the html file is 19K which include but two small images of about 2K each is taking some 20 seconds to load and display in IE7. Admittedly the files are on a network disk on my domain server but even so.....

Have you tried acquiring a Vista disk with SP1 already integrated? I installed it on my laptop this past weekend and I have nothing but joys to report. Network traffic could still cruise faster but I'm getting better results than the original pre-SP1 install.

-Richard

[Living2007]

That of course may be but what is the main concern is when.
Unfortunately for most of the world out there they only have one Windows into computing and as much as we, the enlightened but ever increasing few, might like to promote alternatives the reality is that most people will stick with what they know and will not take the step towards enlightenment.
Bring on the competition. Let's have the tussle and let's hope MS make progress quickly.

ps Further to my earlier post about the slowness of Vista since installing SP1. I am experiencing more than a 2-3 % reduction. I am currently finding that to load a single web page where the html file is 19K which include but two small images of about 2K each is taking some 20 seconds to load and display in IE7. Admittedly the files are on a network disk on my domain server but even so.....

That's Microsoft for U

[kamaboko]

ps Further to my earlier post about the slowness of Vista since installing SP1. I am experiencing more than a 2-3 % reduction. I am currently finding that to load a single web page where the html file is 19K which include but two small images of about 2K each is taking some 20 seconds to load and display in IE7. Admittedly the files are on a network disk on my domain server but even so.....


Again, as I've posted several times: mileage my vary. I can tell you that my Vista box is easly 50% faster than the same box with Ubuntu, Mint, gOS, Fedora, Debian, OpenSuse, etc., installed. Webpages load instantly. There's never ever any lag time. MS Office 2007 open in under 2 seconds.

[SteveHillier]

Have you tried acquiring a Vista disk with SP1 already integrated? I installed it on my laptop this past weekend and I have nothing but joys to report. Network traffic could still cruise faster but I'm getting better results than the original pre-SP1 install.

-Richard

I have not yet had the joy of buying more licences since SP1. Most of my clients are small businesses to whom I have not yet shipped Vista and I shall not be rushing.
As my demand for new systems into home users is low I have not yet had to buy an install disk with SP1. I have not even inquired if it is available on OEM media yet.

[SteveHillier]

Again, as I've posted several times: mileage my vary. I can tell you that my Vista box is easly 50% faster than the same box with Ubuntu, Mint, gOS, Fedora, Debian, OpenSuse, etc., installed. Webpages load instantly. There's never ever any lag time. MS Office 2007 open in under 2 seconds.

Can I ask - is this a standalone machine? You see, I have this gut feeling that it is MS networking that is screwing things up. My Vista machine sits on a domain so every file access is across the network. Any IE is de facto networked. If I were an MS developer / tester that is where I would be putting some effort.

[FredB]

The only good Windows version was for me Windows 2000.

And I used - sigh - Win 3.1, 95, 98/98Se, 2000 and XP,

[kamaboko]

Can I ask - is this a standalone machine? You see, I have this gut feeling that it is MS networking that is screwing things up. My Vista machine sits on a domain so every file access is across the network. Any IE is de facto networked. If I were an MS developer / tester that is where I would be putting some effort.

Yes, it is a stand alone machine.

[MONODA]

what I see happening in the future is windows market share dropping to about 35% (probably people who refuse to believe anything could possibly be better [like at my school]) mac amrket share will rise to about 45% and linux will be about 20%. but I think that eventually winodws will lose everything (almost) or will have to be rewritten with freebsd base.

[FredB]

I don't think that Windows would sink to 35%. 85%, yes, but not lower for the 10 years to go.

[rickyjones]

I have not yet had the joy of buying more licences since SP1. Most of my clients are small businesses to whom I have not yet shipped Vista and I shall not be rushing.
As my demand for new systems into home users is low I have not yet had to buy an install disk with SP1. I have not even inquired if it is available on OEM media yet.

I get my software through the Microsoft Action Pack subscription. If you are a consultant you may wish to consider buying into this program - $300 USD a year but it is worth it. Full licenses to most Microsoft products for internal business use and evaluation.

-Richard

[caravel]

Voted for Windows 2000, weird that it doesn't have msconfig installed by default, and it would be nice if movie maker came with it. When I run XP, I always run classic style.
It's very easy to put the msconfig from XP into 2k. It was needlessly omitted. IMHO, once all of the crap is disabled and it has been set up correctly, XP is superior to 2K anyway.

[Jiraya]

The only good Windows version was for me Windows 2000.

And I used - sigh - Win 3.1, 95, 98/98Se, 2000 and XP,

I like WinXP.

[Living2007]

I get my software through the Microsoft Action Pack subscription. If you are a consultant you may wish to consider buying into this program - $300 USD a year but it is worth it. Full licenses to most Microsoft products for internal business use and evaluation.

-Richard

What is the MAP Subscribtion pack? And who wold want to get software from Microsoft? THEY TAKE FOREVER TO DOWNLOAD!

[rickyjones]

What is the MAP Subscribtion pack? And who wold want to get software from Microsoft? THEY TAKE FOREVER TO DOWNLOAD!

The Microsoft Action Pack is a subscription for computer consultants and Microsoft professionals. It gives you complete access to the majority of Microsoft software that you would use in a small to medium business setting.

For example, I get 10 licenses for the latest version of Office, Windows XP/Vista, a license for Server 2003 (SBS, Standard, Enterprise)... It also comes with training manuals and sales help when pitching this software to clients.

https://partner.microsoft.com/40016455

It is worth the cost. And you don't /download/ the software, it is shipped to you on DVDs/CDs...

Thanks,
Richard

[Fenris_rising]

when i changed graphics card and network card under windows XP imagine my fury at the popup that told me it had detected substantial changes to my system and wouldnt let me go on without revalidating my serial number, which then popped up with you have done this to many times call microsoft!!!!! how dare they control what i do with my hardware. im dual booting now with linux 8.04 and its rather good isnt it. minimal problems solved and now all i want to do is learn all i need to port over permenantly to linux. stuff microsoft good time.

regards

Fenris

[Jiraya]

when i changed graphics card and network card under windows XP imagine my fury at the popup that told me it had detected substantial changes to my system and wouldnt let me go on without revalidating my serial number, which then popped up with you have done this to many times call microsoft!!!!! how dare they control what i do with my hardware. im dual booting now with linux 8.04 and its rather good isnt it. minimal problems solved and now all i want to do is learn all i need to port over permenantly to linux. stuff microsoft good time.

regards

Fenris

It may be that WGA thing.

[guitarthrasher]

They never were user friendly...

AMEN.

[Living2007]

It may be that WGA thing.

you mean the new type of graphics port (the one after VGA)

[Twitch6000]

I agree that MSFT are going down, at least as far as OS department is concerned. The future prospects of XP beeing phased out in a few years were one of the reasons to try out Linux, which is probably our future. However, I don't consider Linux ready for massive infiltration into minds. One still has to be a geek in order to use it, plus it has too many issues. If it could work on virtually any PC configuration (like XP does), didn't require any CLI usage and was fully usable for an average Joe, it could be considered ready. As of now - sorry, it isn't.

Ok you are making me wonder are you a microsoft fan boy or what lol.Sorry its just what I am getting from your posts.
Anyways to this post I am quoting.
You say Linux has many bugs and such.Well yeah it does true,of course look at other oses and distros.Vista,Mac,Dream Linux,And solaris all have issues as well.You say it isn't ready for the average joe,oh boy that's funny I have gotten 7 average joes to try and like it.Now sure it probably will not be Linux to beat Microsoft for number 1 but,Mac sure has a big chance.Then with Linux still gaining after well that's self explanatory :p.
So all and all my point is Linux is for anyone that uses a computer for normal things or even small office things.I myself use it for everything but, playing starcraft(wine 1 should fix that).

[techniciantf]

Boy! could I Gripe about them,

But I don't spit into fan's anymore ......

I've been around since it all started...

When we all liked supporting them over BIG BLUE!

now I want to write a book, "When did microsoft become Big Blue"

[cardinals_fan]

You say Linux has many bugs and such.Well yeah it does true,of course look at other oses and distros.Vista,Mac,Dream Linux,And solaris all have issues as well.You say it isn't ready for the average joe,oh boy that's funny I have gotten 7 average joes to try and like it.Now sure it probably will not be Linux to beat Microsoft for number 1 but,Mac sure has a big chance.Then with Linux still gaining after well that's self explanatory :p.
So all and all my point is Linux is for anyone that uses a computer for normal things or even small office things.I myself use it for everything but, playing starcraft(wine 1 should fix that).
Why is Dream Linux on the list of other operating systems?

I don't mean for this to sound offensive, but you need to work on the grammar. Unless you don't speak English well, or are dyslexic (if either of these apply, accept my apology for this post), try to make a bit more sense.

[NightwishFan]

What isn't Micro Soft coming to? :confused:

[Living2007]

What isn't Micro Soft coming to? :confused:

HEAVEN

[SteveHillier]

(probably people who refuse to believe anything could possibly be better [like at my school])

I am going to be careful what I say here.
I do not accept MS as being the best but you have to admit they do have market share supremacy.
As a teacher of IT a few years back (and an examiner up until last year) you do have to ask "What is the purpose of education?". Surely it is to prepare students to be ready for whatever they might meet after leaving school.
That unfortunately in IT terms that is MS and you cannot really gainsay that.
However my interest in Linux started some 12 years ago, when I was teaching, and I felt it was also important that students had a broader experience beyond MS. So it was there, the more inquiring students could and did use it, but I could not main stream it otherwise I would be failing in my duty to my students in preparing them for life and for exams.
For many teachers, I suspect their own experience does not stretch beyond MS and many (unlike myself who went into teaching from an IT background) come into teaching IT from a maths or science background. Those teachers are more likely to follow what they know best and follow an exam syllabus which may make only passing reference to OSes other than MS.
I might wish it were otherwise but......

[Living2007]

It would be wonderful if the schools had linux-based PC amoung with XP PCs

[torry_loon]

It would be wonderful if the schools had linux-based PC amoung with XP PCs

There should be no reason why schools can't have access to more than one operating system. Unfortunately, one of the main reasons for Windows being the only OS available in schools and other environments is that Windows and other Microsoft products interoperate so badly with other operating systems. Once you start depending on Microsoft's products, it is very hard to remove them because Microsoft don't make it easy to share data with non Microsoft products.

[matthewhunt]

I voted for win98. It was for me the most stable and most efficient of the WinXX generation of OS's. I only upgraded to XP when software and games that I wanted stopped supporting Win98, and even then only after I had begrudgingly upgraded my graphics card to one that was supported by XP (Boy I liked my ATi Rage Fury MAXX) But for it's ease of installation and general compatibility with near enough everything WinXP is just a lumbering beast which I persevered with until now. I've tried Vista and I just don't like it. It feels like they've changed the desktop environment for the sake of it; I just can't find what I want where I expect to find it in a MS application. Also the graphical wizardry doesn't seem that flash when you see what Ubuntu can do with compiz for a fraction of the system resources. I looked at the processes running in Linux the other day and few were using more than a couple of MB ram. Open the running process in windows and many are using 20MB or more! Microsoft's applications are just too bloated.

[Living2007]

I just am so annoyed lately about Winmodens. My current modem is a winmodem and Ubuntu just can't pick it up. So i have been stuck with no net access in Ubuntu since I installed 6.10

I have to do everything with Windows until I get an external modem

[mshiva]

XP, I love XP, Puppy and Xubuntu equally

[schmidtbag]

I can't stand MS now. I used to like them very much until Vista and Xbox 360 came out. Ever since those 2, they've been getting constantly dumber. I really REALLY hate Vista. XP is a classic compared to that, and even XP had its downs. Maybe if Vista didn't suck at everything it had and wasn't more resource consuming than the average game, I'd just barely pick it over a KDE linux (not Gnome). If I want hardware and software incompatibilities, I'd rather get something brand new to me that doesn't have Indian tech support that you have to pay for (yes, you need to PAY for MS support) and actually runs decently without being a resource hog.

But to comment on earlier posts, sure Windows may not have much customization but its the most compatible. Commenting specifically to Living2007, my college mainly supports linux, and had Windows. Every OS has its pros and cons. Windows is unstable, likely to get viruses, and ugly, but its decently user friendly and is the best for gaming. Linux gets many compatibility issues, is relatively not user friendly, and relies too much on the internet. But, Linux has solid security, extremely high quality for being free and open source, and with the help of Crossover and Wine, it should eventually become the most compatible OS. Mac I don't really like much, they're expensive, more incompatible, restricted, and brag about nothing special. They're the most user-friendly OS and by far they have the most solid kernel - you have to TRY finding a problem in how it operates. They also prepare you more than anyone else.

So if I HAD to pick an OS for the rest of my life, I'd pick XP, unless Linux got more Windows support.

[Living2007]

Not expect all tecnology to be better than before. eg. iPod shuffle after iPod, why? iPod shuffle's aduio is worser that all other MP3 Players

[Living2007]

I thank everyone's comments and concerns, This thread will remain open until admin closes the thread!

[LaRoza]

This thread will remain open until admin closes the thread!

All thread remain open until closed.

Thread Closed

[Living2007]

All thread remain open until closed.

Thread Closed

Hahaha, very funny. Well then, how did I post this reply

[Jiraya]

Hahaha, very funny. Well then, how did I post this reply

Hahahahah. LOL! :lol:

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