Putting an end to wasted display area, gnome 3.0 style.

[ethana2]

I've discovered that people don't have patience for talk when it comes to new concepts involving a gui... And I've finally finished a mockup.(which I'm told is of a quality on par with screenshots for quality)

This mockup is an illustration of one configuration that will be made possible with the admittedly massive changes that I propose here:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=521131

The screenshot is attached.

[smartboyathome]

That 1) looks messy imo, and 2) isn't possible unless the window manager and toolkits get combined (not attempted yet on Linux, as far as I know).

[ethana2]

It needs to be attempted.

"Messy" is what it is now. Stuff is all over the place, creating visual noise, yet being all spread out.

Perhaps you'd like to see that shot with only one tab open and thus no tab bar?

[Lord Illidan]

I actually like some big buttons and some padding. Ok, perhaps Gnome could do with some slimming down, but not to that extreme, imho!

[ethana2]

Applications that exist now are pretty customizable, generally speaking. You can show or hide pretty much any element in the window.

....Do you know how much redundant code supporting all of that in every app is? This can get rid of all of it.

What I've shown you is only one of very many possibilities. Like mac. You want something that looks like OSX? No problem at all.

I like /my/ desktop compact. You could do anything you please.

[leo_rockway]

2) isn't possible unless the window manager and toolkits get combined (not attempted yet on Linux, as far as I know).

I believe what he wants is a change in the way window managers behave so you'd be able to adjust things this way if that's what you wanted.

This doesn't necessarily need to be Ubuntu's / Gnome's default view, but rather a new option.

[ethana2]

Anything that could be shown could be hidden.

Notice the status bar applet is not present, as I find it useless in firefox.
If you never use menu bars, then you can just not have that displayed either.

If you want window panels to be smaller than desktop panels, you're free to do that; you can make them as big or as small as you wish.

If you use the keyboard for everything, you don't even have to show window controls.

[PrimoTurbo]

So if you resize the window how are you supposed to drag it around if you can't grab on to the title bar?

[ethana2]

A 4 pixel thick grab bar containing nothing.

The title applet in the panel or wherever could also, when you click and hold on it, transfer all motion from your mouse into the in-focus window instead of the cursor.

[ethana2]

If you'd like me to render any scenarios with more mockups, just ask me. Having done what I have so far, more in the future should be easier.

--Sorry, 4 pixels for a grab bar is a bit anemic. You'd want twice that at least.

[Merk42]

Or you could just modify GNOME to have a more *GASP* Windows layout, which saves as much room, and doesn't require reinventing the wheel.

[smartboyathome]

I believe what he wants is a change in the way window managers behave so you'd be able to adjust things this way if that's what you wanted.

This doesn't necessarily need to be Ubuntu's / Gnome's default view, but rather a new option.

It would take more than just modifying a window manager. Window managers are separate from the toolkits, and thus, they would have to be merged, meaning more complications and more bugs.

[YetAnotherNoob]

On a completely unrelated note...I thought I should correct your japanese (in the screenshot)

わたしわnerdです。

is incorrect it should be:
わたしはnerdです。

or better yet:
私はおたくです。

:)

[Ioky]

I like the idea, and I like it looks pretty good indee, the only thing I think is a bit problemic is the title of the window. Imagine, you are a graphic designer or any kind of editor that need like 10 windows open at the same time, and when they behind each other all you see is an icon and file edit view and ..... That will seem annoy, Good work though,

[st0n3cutt3r]

On a completely unrelated note...I thought I should correct your japanese (in the screenshot)

わたしわnerdです。

is incorrect it should be:
わたしはnerdです。

or better yet:
私はおたくです。

:)

Beat me to it!

On topic: For future reference, I think that you should avoid having a maximized window in your mockups, because there's so much information in that iGoogle tab, for example, that it took me several minutes to realize what you were trying to illustrate.

A better example would have a couple of windows on screen, with the selected window's title in the top bar as you have it, but without anything so large and distracting that it is not immediately obvious what your goal is.

[ethana2]

On a completely unrelated note...I thought I should correct your japanese (in the screenshot)

わたしわnerdです。

is incorrect it should be:
わたしはnerdです。

or better yet:
私はおたくです。

:)

Yes, I have been made aware of that. I have also withdrawn from my japanese course. (lojban, here I come.)

[ethana2]

By the way, Loky, you could put the window title wherever the heck you want. Again, this is only /one/ out of a nearly infinite set of gui possibilities.

[MNICY]

As for the grab bar, i think having the option to hide it would be nice.
If you would prefer to ALT-click on the window, then that totaly removes the need.

[tdrusk]

That reminds me too much of XFCE

[ethana2]

MNICY: Yeah, that's probably how I'd do it. One hand on the keyboard, one hand on the mouse during intense usage..

Sometimes, though, I like to just use one hand to navigate the GUI, so I'd probably use both options at different times..
Whatever, to each his own. Some people like it just how it is. All I know is that right now, gnome is incapable of letting me configure my GUI how I want it.

[geoken]

It seems like your adding 10 pixels of static space to remove 10 pixels of dynamic space. By static and dynamic I'm reffering to window borders and panels. Windows borders would comprise dynamic space becasuse the nature of our stacking window manager allows multiple window borders to occupy the same space (by bieng stacked on top of eachother). By contrast, the panels constitute static space becuase multiple panels can't be stacked on each other while maintaining there intended use.

So I'd basically be forced to use 2 panels (I currently use 1) to save less room (in practice) than the window borders themeselves occupy.

Also, the specific example of FireFox would never word like that for most people. I think it's pretty common for most users to retain the search bar, and although many consolidate the refresh/stop button they make up for it by adding a few other buttons. For example, my toolbar has a FireFtp button, a clear cache button and a bookmarks button as well as the search bar and loading indicator.

[ethana2]

This concept is changing rapidly. My thinking has been overhauled, and I have code behind my idea now.

The only thing left to do is get a window list applet that's worth something. (tab widgets instead of button widgets, close buttons on all windows, additional window controls on in-focus window, bold current window title, etc.)

Behold! Real, unmodified screenshots!

[bobbybobington]

The window list makes it seem cluttered. Personally I just use compiz scale effect with screen edge to active it. Of course this would be limited by hardware. Perhaps a permanent button on the bar to activate the scale effect or a non-3d equivalent to replace the window list?

[ethana2]

For the window list, I'd recommend trying out every possibility.

Try this one:
If it's not the window in focus, it should only be an icon with no text.

[tretle]

I don't think it should be top priority but do think that lots of small things could be done to slim it down. If the deskbar were smarter for instance you could remove the need of adding another search widget to your application which would in turn make the desktop slimmer and better in my view.
There should be some function you can call upon in gtk to allow the deskbar to know what window is focussed and if it knows what application you are referring to when you call upon it then it could put the plugin for that application at the top priority.

[Juffo-Wup]

Your latest proposal has a usability problem: the window title bar is too thin.

Given what is known about the way humans perform when attempting to click an object on the screen with a mouse (Fitt's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27_law)), it would be unwise to use such a (vertically) thin handle on top of the windows (which are to be accessed by means of mostly vertical movements), as it would be too difficult to grab.

[leo_rockway]

Your latest proposal has a usability problem: the window title bar is too thin.

Given what is known about the way humans perform when attempting to click an object on the screen with a mouse (Fitt's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27_law)), it would be unwise to use such a (vertically) thin handle on top of the windows (which are to be accessed by means of mostly vertical movements), as it would be too difficult to grab.

I think he made it thin on purpose because he doesn't really have a need for it if he uses shortcuts for minimize, maximize, move, etc...

I don't use Gnome, but I know in KDE you can get rid of the title bar altogether on the windows you select (app menu > advanced > no border).

[Vadi]

"Wasted space" sounds really dangerous. I find that windows make use of this "wasted space" in their HIG, and you get a whole lot of buttons/knobs/scrollbars/textlabels all over the screen, all screaming for your attention.

Then I go back to the simple gnome, where as a human, I can focus on one thing at a time, within the given task.