Automatix is dead

[loell]

I'm trying out hardy, so i was thinking hmm it would be nice to try automatix again, and see what's in store for me in hardy

just when you thought they've complied most of ubuntu's packagaing guidelines.

but lo and behold thier latest anouncement :(

http://www.getautomatix.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2424

Well the day has finally come, development of Automatix has been discontinued. We are doing this, NOT because we think Automatix is no longer necessary on Ubuntu and Debian, but because all of the Automatix developers have become wrapped up in more pressing commitments.

I, Jared, have been asked by Technalign Inc. to assist in the development of the next version of their GNU/Linux distribution, Pioneer Warrior. I will use what I have learned as an Automatix developer to make Pioneer Warrior the best GNU/Linux distribution for the average user.

Arnie, and the other Automatix Team members, currently are too involved in their personal lives to do justice to the Automatix project as well.

We thank our loyal users for the years of support they have given us, and we wish them well on their journey in the world of free software.

surely we'll miss you automatix , farewell :(

[bruce89]

Bug tiragers certainly don't miss it.

[SunnyRabbiera]

That stinks, automatix has always been a decent thing for beginners.
Sure it had bugs but for newbies it is a vital tool.
I am hoping the ubuntu team compensates for this.

[aysiu]

If Breezy was the latest version of Ubuntu out right now, then I would miss Automatix.

As it stands now, Automatix is obsolete (not to mention it created more trouble than convenience for those who tried to use it in the past few months--anything from dependency errors to flaky servers).

For the terminally lazy proprietary-dependent, Linux Mint is a much better choice. And for those who like vanilla Ubuntu, ubuntu-restricted-extras takes care of the major proprietary software requests.

RIP, Automatix. You were wonderful in 2005, but you're no longer needed in 2008, and I certainly won't miss you.

[SunnyRabbiera]

yeh but it was a good tool for those who dont know how the repo's work.

[macogw]

Good riddance.

[aysiu]

yeh but it was a good tool for those who dont know how the repo's work.
Every user should know how the repos work. That is the main method for software installation and removal on most major desktop Linux distributions.

If you think enabling all those codecs is too much trouble, then a new user would be far better off with Linux Mint than Ubuntu+Automatix.

[Vadi]

Thanks for all their work, good luck on the next big distro.

[pieisgood4589]

Meh, not me. It breaks things, making Ubuntu unable to upgrade :mad:

I'm trying out hardy, so i was thinking hmm it would be nice to try automatix again, and see what's in store for me in hardy

just when you thought they've complied most of ubuntu's packagaing guidelines.

but lo and behold thier latest anouncement :(

http://www.getautomatix.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2424



surely we'll miss you automatix , farewell :(

[LaRoza]

Well, sad to see an open source project end. Even though I never used it.

[hhhhhx]

i dont understand why people say it breaks things, i have used it on about 4-5 different computers and have never had any problems, am i just lucky or something?

[Antman]

Every user should know how the repos work. That is the main method for software installation and removal on most major desktop Linux distributions.

If you think enabling all those codecs is too much trouble, then a new user would be far better off with Linux Mint than Ubuntu+Automatix.

+1 for Mint for a complete n00b since it has most of the standard stuff preloaded. I would give it to my mom or son to use. But of course my son could probably graduate to Ubuntu now. Hmm.. maybe I'll let him install hardy beta or fedora on his computer as a project.:guitar:

[epimeteo]

Automatix did help Ubuntu by making easier to install some basic things. Although it broke things, or raised problems upon upgrades, it certainly helped Ubuntu, leading the way for the need to create the virtual-packages that now replace it.

Even if it wasn't supported, it was useful and did helped Ubuntu to become easier and better.

[djsroknrol]

Jared...here's wishing you much success with Technalign...from the sound on the forum, Warrior is going to be a fine piece of work...

I have to agree with aysiu in that Automatix has seen it's time and was great in it's time.

[c-ron]

Automatix is dead! :-(
Long live Automatix!

[23meg]

yeh but it was a good tool for those who dont know how the repo's work.

On the contrary, it was bad for them, because it messed up their installations and made them file illegitimate bug reports which caused superfluous maintenance work for developers and triagers, time and effort spent on which could have been spent on other things and helped them indirectly. Not knowing the basics of how repositories work is a huge gap of knowledge that can't be amended by any tool, especially by a tool as flaky as Automatix.

I certainly won't miss all the cheap drama and false positives it's caused.

[loell]

yes, I wished their developers well, may they find other ways to help the ubuntu community in the future.

[loell]

sigh, :( even with the demise of the project, some people hate it to the biter end. :(

nevertheless, i respect these opinions, as the claims of instability is also undeniably true.

but i still wanted thank them for their work.

[mrgnash]

Automatix saved me a lot of trouble in the early days, but with ubuntu-restricted-extras, medibuntu, and so forth, their time has come and gone, I think :(

[23meg]

I too would thank them for what they have accomplished. It's not that I doubt their good intentions, despite their bad fame produced mostly by the project leader's manners which weren't exactly courteous and easy to work with. But setting out with good intentions to help people is one thing, actually accomplishing it without breaking more than you fix (take that in both technical and social terms) is another.

[Polygon]

add/remove programs has matured to the point that its essentially the same thing as automatix for whatever is in the ubuntu repos. Sure i dont think that you can install dvd support, make numlock turn on by default or some of the other stuff, but for the most part its pretty good, even for new users.

[ice60]

Automatix is dead! :-(
Long live Automatix!
i think that's generally said when there's a new 'version' i.e.
the King is dead. long live the King (talking about two different people)

i could be wrong, but that's just how i always took it to mean. is that right?

EDIT. i looked it up :|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_king_is_dead._long_live_the_king

[Chilli Bob]

I'll miss Automaix. It was a major time saver, and never caused me any trouble. Two weeks ago I did a Gutsy install without using Automatix, and it was hell. I promised I'd never try that again, but it looks like now I have no choice.

[KiwiNZ]

I too would thank them for what they have accomplished. It's not that I doubt their good intentions, despite their bad fame produced mostly by the project leader's manners which weren't exactly courteous and easy to work with. But setting out with good intentions to help people is one thing, actually accomplishing it without breaking more than you fix (take that in both technical and social terms) is another.

Can I ask that we please do not give rebirth to all the personality things , we really dont want to ressurect that mess.

Lets just thank them and wish a good future

[Mr. Picklesworth]

I will be delighted when 8.04 rolls along and thousands of people realize that they have not needed Automatix for a good two releases, and then I will resume this delight when 8.10 arrives and all those same people witness their first painless major release upgrade.

May we never see Windows-esque applications that blatantly ignore the right way to do things in normal circulation again...

Still, nice to see it end well. I would hate to see the folks behind it just disappear, so I am happy that they have found new directions to go in. Best of luck to them :)

[il-luzhin]

Automatix got me through my first few months on linux, thanks and good luck to the developers.

[Paqman]

Gotta admit I used it when I came over to Ubuntu (Dapper). I remember thinking it was a godsend at the time.

I think both the Automatix and the Ubuntu devs should consider the fact that it's now superfluous as a point of pride. Automatix filled a role that people wanted. That deficiency was acknowledged by Ubuntu, who upped their game because of it. Everybody wins, really.

[Hutom]

i used it in my early days; though not for long. It did break things and I was forced to remove it. Now of course we don't need it. But, I don't know why, somehow I am feeling sad about the fact that the project has been discontinued. Nostalgia may be.

[jmore9]

I have been using automatix for a year or so now and have found it to be a big help. I personally have not had any problems with the installs from it. It saved me a lot of time. Going to the the automatix app.

[ubuntu-freak]

I'll miss Automaix. It was a major time saver, and never caused me any trouble. Two weeks ago I did a Gutsy install without using Automatix, and it was hell. I promised I'd never try that again, but it looks like now I have no choice.


How was it hell? I tried Automatix in Kubuntu once, and that was it. Just bookmark my cut n' paste how-to (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=661833), the manual way is easy enough if the restricted-extras package doesn't give you everything you want. Let me know if there is anything missing that you would find useful.

Nathan

[wersdaluv]

It's time for people to maximize apt-get :D

[Wobedraggled]

It was a handy app, sad to see it go. Would it be possible to take the code and work it into ubuntu somehow, make it part of the package managers?

[Kernel Sanders]

If Breezy was the latest version of Ubuntu out right now, then I would miss Automatix.

As it stands now, Automatix is obsolete (not to mention it created more trouble than convenience for those who tried to use it in the past few months--anything from dependency errors to flaky servers).

For the terminally lazy proprietary-dependent, Linux Mint is a much better choice. And for those who like vanilla Ubuntu, ubuntu-restricted-extras takes care of the major proprietary software requests.

RIP, Automatix. You were wonderful in 2005, but you're no longer needed in 2008, and I certainly won't miss you.

Good riddance.

What these two said. It's an obsolete program.

[andrewabc]

automatix was good for me 3 years ago. I used it for one ubuntu distribution. But now applications->add/remove and synaptics make installing/uninstalling stuff extremely easy.

[roderick]

This is one app/project that just needs to silently die.

Synaptic/Adept work extremely well today, and many apps now have automatic detection for missing/required codecs, etc. As long as Ubuntu continues to work on this, then the average user will be fine.

"Ding dong the witch is dead"

[loell]

This is one app/project that just needs to silently die. and it rested silently, actually.


"Ding dong the witch is dead"

its rude to celebrate the death of a project, I originally intended this thread to pay my last respect of a project that once useful to probably some of us.

[Victormd]

I'm just starting to grasp the ubuntu/linux environment and have had a lot of installation issues. Nonetheless, I've never used automatix and from what I understand, it's pretty much what aysiu said...

[bruce89]

Automatix was essentially a script that messed up the sources.list file and installed a load of packages from all over the place. It also put random files all over the filesystem not under apt's control.

[forrestcupp]

The last I heard, the Automatix team and the Ubuntu Devs patched things up and were going to start working together to make Automatix more compatible. It's too bad the project has to die when these kind of positive steps were being made.

[notwen]

The last I heard, the Automatix team and the Ubuntu Devs patched things up and were going to start working together to make Automatix more compatible. It's too bad the project has to die when these kind of positive steps were being made.

Yes, they were working w/ Ubuntu devs to ensure no system breaks occurred when installing things through automatix. I never used it myself, but best of luck to it's former devs in their future projects/careers. =]

[chucky chuckaluck]

automatix sure helped me out when i was a beginner and arnie boy was always willing to help me out, even with kde stuff. thanks for the memories, automatix.

[Kevbert]

Automatix helped me when I first started with Ubuntu, but there are easier and better ways to find and install software. For example, codecs via Quickstart.

[icechen1]

You can read it all there: http://www.getautomatix.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2424
The developers claim they did not stoped because they believed automatix is no longer useful, but because they have become wrapped up in more pressing commitments.
Automatix really helped me when I just started using Ubuntu but I think that tool is useful for anyone.

[akiratheoni]

I won't miss it... I used it once and that was it. But I really am surprised that it's dead, I never saw that happening.

[easyease]

Being a ubuntu user since hoary and now trying out hardy i'm sad to say I'll miss Automatix, it did make life easier after each fresh install. shame its gotta go.

[Asham]

It was a great utility when trying Ubuntu the first time(s) around. Haven't used it in a while though so I suppose those who say it's for beginners are onto something. ;)

[John T. Monkey]

This is a shame. Like others have said, this has really helped me out on older versions of Ubuntu. I havent used it since Edgy, but its a shame...

[Erik Trybom]

I second Aysiu's and many others' thoughts on this one. Automatix was a great help in Breezy, but nowadays it's no longer needed. And I like that, because it shouldn't be needed. Installing applications is a core feature of any OS and should not require any third-party apps.

So while it's never fun when a project is discontinued, I'm somewhat happy about the decision. And I do think "lack of need" is one of the reasons, no matter what the official statement says. It is free software, after all. If there's a genuine need for it someone will continue where the Automatix team left off, but I very much doubt that will happen.

[retrow]

I wouldn't have known anything about converters for Office 2007 documents had it not been for Automatix. The Automatix repo set was very well laid out and in my 2+ years of usage and updates, there wasn't a single problem that I encountered which could be traced back to Automatix.

I wish the Automatix team the very best. And thanks for all the good times.

[AndyCooll]

If Breezy was the latest version of Ubuntu out right now, then I would miss Automatix.

... RIP, Automatix. You were wonderful in 2005, but you're no longer needed in 2008, and I certainly won't miss you.
Yes, I think that about sums the situation up.

I used Automatix when I first started out (around the time of Hoary-Hedgehog) and was grateful for the way it seemed to make installing certain apps so much easier. Of course we didn't have ubuntu-restricted-extras then, nor the Restricted Drivers Manager, nor automatic installation of codecs. And with these the need for Automatix has passed.

I've since moved on and learnt that installing stuff myself isn't anywhere near as difficult as I thought it was, and indeed I actuallly benefit from doing so because I'm learning more about how everything fits together as I do so

:cool:

[gn2]

I think that Automatix paid a major part in retaining users at a time when it was a helpful tool and Ubuntu was nowhere near as user friendly as it has become.

Automatix should be seen as a force for good.
As for breakage, there have been worse problems from dist upgrades.

Polls clearly showed that the vast majority of Automatix users had no problems with it whatsoever.

Good luck for the future, and a big thanks to the Automatix team from someone who is very grateful for the good work they did.

As for those posting negative comments about the Automatix personnel, please read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_%28philosophy%29#Meaning).

[Johnsie]

I''ve been using Ubuntu since Breezy. I think Automatix was a great tool and without it I'd never have stuck with Ubuntu. Ubuntu is an OS that is shipped incomplete and Automatix has always helped me make it complete. I've never had any problems with Automatix and it always sped up the process of getting good restricted software installed. What made Automatix so great was that they had the bottle to get things working in Ubuntu at the touch of a button.... Things that Cannonical couldnt get working. I think the way some Ubuntu users/trolls have treated Arnieboy and the rest of the AX team over the years has been awful. They worked hard and genuinely wanted to help make Ubuntu better. They were metaphoorically slapped in the face by a small minority of very vocal users on these forums but most people liked it. I will consider switching to their distro if/when it comes out and I wish them all the best of luck. Thankyou Automatix.

[23meg]

Polls clearly showed that the vast majority of Automatix users had no problems with it whatsoever.

I'm sure very few people have ever had problems with Automatix itself. A lot of its users had problems caused by it, without ever knowing that it caused them. There's factual evidence (http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html) of its technical faults.

As for breakage, there have been worse problems from dist upgrades.

It's not at all unreasonable to assume that a good percentage of problems from dist-upgrades at a certain period were actually caused by Automatix. Could unsuspecting users have known? No, for them it was "I upgraded and feature X stopped working" when the underlying cause was software installed by Automatix. And then some must have gone on to vote "It works for me" in the polls you mention.

As for those posting negative comments about the Automatix personnel, please read this.

The Automatix personnel aren't untouchable holy entities; they're participants in this community just like the rest of us, who should be accountable for their actions. It shouldn't be a sin to criticize them. There's nothing in the Ubuntu philosophy that reasoned, civil criticism goes against.

[gn2]

It shouldn't be a sin to criticize them. There's nothing in the Ubuntu philosophy that reasoned, civil criticism goes against.

What has been posted on these forums in the past has gone way beyond civil criticism, there have been vitriolic personal attacks made.

It remains a fact that for the vast majority of users Automatix caused no problems whatsoever.

[loell]

What has been posted on these forums in the past has gone way beyond civil criticism, there have been vitriolic personal attacks made.

It remains a fact that for the vast majority of users Automatix caused no problems whatsoever.

just let go of it :) lets not dwell in the past. :)

[gn2]

just let go of it :) lets not dwell in the past. :)

Wise words and I would be happy to.
Just so long as the "antis" do so as well :-)

[Ioky]

RIP Automatix. And User, maybe it is time to learn how to swim on your own.

[loell]

i feel like we've said enough goodbye's , thanks and what not. so maybe its time to close the thread? before it turns sour again? ;)

[Frak]

Every user should know how the repos work. That is the main method for software installation and removal on most major desktop Linux distributions.

If you think enabling all those codecs is too much trouble, then a new user would be far better off with Linux Mint than Ubuntu+Automatix.
Some of us use Debian, and Automatix was worth it.

[eragon100]

I am NOt happy with this! Ubuntu restricted extra's dvd codecs don't work for me, the only way i could play dvd's in vld media player (or any other video player) was by using automatix to download and install the win32 dvd codecs. Will it be possible to use te 7.10 version to install only don't codecs, nothing else, on 8.04?

Breakge dnger isn't important, since i will burn myself a nice 8.04 cd, and do a clean install with it. The dvd codecs will be about the first thing i install on 8.04, so if it breaks, i simply do another clean installation. In total it might cost me 45 minutes if 8.04 breaks, no problem :)

So would it be possible>

[aysiu]

I am NOt happy with this! Ubuntu restricted extra's dvd codecs don't work for me, the only way i could play dvd's in vld media player (or any other video player) was by using automatix to download and install the win32 dvd codecs. Will it be possible to use te 7.10 version to install only don't codecs, nothing else, on 8.04?

Breakge dnger isn't important, since i will burn myself a nice 8.04 cd, and do a clean install with it. The dvd codecs will be about the first thing i install on 8.04, so if it breaks, i simply do another clean installation. In total it might cost me 45 minutes if 8.04 breaks, no problem :)

So would it be possible>
Use Linux Mint. It's even easier than Automatix--all that proprietary crap is already preinstalled.

[ubuntu-freak]

I am NOt happy with this! Ubuntu restricted extra's dvd codecs don't work for me, the only way i could play dvd's in vld media player (or any other video player) was by using automatix to download and install the win32 dvd codecs. Will it be possible to use te 7.10 version to install only don't codecs, nothing else, on 8.04?

Breakge dnger isn't important, since i will burn myself a nice 8.04 cd, and do a clean install with it. The dvd codecs will be about the first thing i install on 8.04, so if it breaks, i simply do another clean installation. In total it might cost me 45 minutes if 8.04 breaks, no problem :)

So would it be possible>


Huh? The w32codecs are NOT for DVD playback, libdvdcss2 and other packages are. See part 4 of my how-to (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=661833) for info on all things DVD related.

Nathan

[smoker]

rip automatix, it was essential (to me) in the past,

good luck to the devs with all future endeavours:-)

[SomeGuyDude]

I used Automatix for quite a few things. It's not that I don't understand repos or anything of that nature, I just found it downright useful.

[gn2]

all that proprietary crap is .....

The difference between a useful PC/Laptop and a paperweight for most people.

I would be happy to use FOSS alternatives if they existed.

[Cope57]

Now that automatix is gone, maybe individuals will learn to use the command line interface.

Besides, how many words per minute do you type using your mouse? ;)

[eragon100]

Is mint just as easy to install as ubuntu? Does it also ship restricted drivers manager, add/remove etcetera?

I think I will install the upcoming version of opensuse, 11.0, if I want to have codecs etcetera preinstalled. It's due in juli of this year :)

[plun]

Now that automatix is gone, maybe individuals will learn to use the command line interface.

Besides, how many words per minute do you type using your mouse? ;)

Well, mark, copy and paste to the terminal ? :)
and Enter....

ubuntu-restricted-extras


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats

I am free as long I doesn't need to use Windoooze, I can stand a
few proprietary crap apps... nema problema...:KS

[gn2]

Is mint just as easy to install as ubuntu? Does it also ship restricted drivers manager, add/remove etcetera?

You'll be hard pushed to notice any difference in the installation procedure.
Last time I used Mint it had Envy for installing graphics drivers.
In the Gnome version the default Mint menu is a bit different but easier if anything.

[ubuntu-freak]

The difference between a useful PC/Laptop and a paperweight for most people.

I would be happy to use FOSS alternatives if they existed.


Also, even with all that annoying (far too many different formats) proprietary stuff installed, you still end up with a 99.9% truly free system.

Nathan

Edit: Give swfdec a try when you install Hardy. It seems to work on par with Adobe Flash, but also enables you to download Flash vids (YouTube) with a "Sava as..." option.

[bruce89]

I would be happy to use FOSS alternatives if they existed.

Besides Flash, what else would be required? (not that I deem Flash as "required") The extra gstreamer plugins are all under FOSS licences but could be legally dodgy.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Now that automatix is gone, maybe individuals will learn to use the command line interface.

Besides, how many words per minute do you type using your mouse? ;)

Yeh but the command line can be intimidating, we just cant force it on people.
I am just wondering why no one is willing to fork it, I find tools like automatix useful for newcommers

[bruce89]

Yeh but the command line can be intimidating, we just cant force it on people.

I'm afraid people should learn the command line, as they'll need it sooner or later.

[23meg]

What has been posted on these forums in the past has gone way beyond civil criticism, there have been vitriolic personal attacks made.

But you addressed the people "posting negative comments" about the Automatix people here and now, not elsewhere and in the past. I don't have to care about what has been posted in the forums before; what I said has nothing to do with a personal attack or anything that goes against the guidelines of conduct in place.

It remains a fact that for the vast majority of users Automatix caused no problems whatsoever.

I like your concept of "fact". Apparently it can withstand any counter argument without even addressing it.

[SunnyRabbiera]

I'm afraid people should learn the command line, as they'll need it sooner or later.

Yeh but people are just going to say "this is too hard, I am going back to windows!"
we want to attract people, not deter them.
we want them to know linux can be just as easy as windows is and forcing command line on them is not good.
just because you are a command line junkie doesnt mean everyone has to be.

[bruce89]

Yeh but people are just going to say "this is too hard, I am going back to windows!"
we want to attract people, not deter them.
we want them to know linux can be just as easy as windows is and forcing command line on them is not good.
just because you are a command line junkie doesnt mean everyone has to be.

TBH, if they don't want to learn, they should use Windows.


#/bin/sh
if zenity --question --text="Do you want to install GStreamer plugins?" --title="Plugins"
then sudo aptitude install gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse
fi


I don't see what's wrong with the codec dialogue that appears when required. Surely this is easy enough?

[SunnyRabbiera]

but this is a desktop distro, we want to look good right?
Look I feel the need for more tools like automatix if we are ever going to come out of microsofts shadow...

[Joeb454]

What's wrong with Add/Remove?

Synaptic could probably work with a little Facelift :) Although I've never used Automatix, so I don't know what it was like :p

[bruce89]

but this is a desktop distro, we want to look good right?
Look I feel the need for more tools like automatix if we are ever going to come out of microsofts shadow...

"We" don't need to. It's not a competition. Adding random GUI stuff until we're all fed up of it doesn't do anyone any favours.

[AndyCooll]

TBH, if they don't want to learn, they should use Windows.
TBH that's not what SunnyRabbiera is saying, he doesn't say anywhere that a newbie isn't willing to learn. And such an attitude is elitism of the sort that I'd hoped we wouldn't want to express here.

There's a big difference between plunging a new Linux user straight into the command line, and encouraging them to learn the command line as they develop their knowledge. Dropping someone in a pool of water and telling them to learn to swim might very well work, but there are more encouraging methods to help someone to learn.

Having come from a Windows background myself, I for one was grateful that I had a tool such as Automatix in the beginning. Of course we now have a range of such tools in Ubuntu to help newbies out (and oldies too for that matter!) that has replaced the need for Automatix.

However I agree with SunnyRabbiera, IMHO it's important that we have as many helpful tools to ease the transition of a newbie into Linux. Using the command line is a powerful additional tool at everyones disposal, but it shouldn't be forced upon a new user.

:cool:

[gn2]

But you addressed the people "posting negative comments" about the Automatix people here and now.

No, the line "What has been posted on these forums in the past has gone way beyond civil criticism, there have been vitriolic personal attacks made" was an observation addressed directly at a quote from you.
Civil criticism of the work of the Automatix team is fine, but personal attacks should not be acceptable.
As for here and now, "Ding dong the witch is dead" and "good riddance" are hardly civil criticism?


I like your concept of "fact". Apparently it can withstand any counter argument without even addressing it.

If it caused such mayhem as you claim, then these forums would have crashed under the weight of cries for help.
Even in this thread about the closure of Automatix there isn't a single post telling a story of problems with Automatix.
Quite the reverse:

i dont understand why people say it breaks things, i have used it on about 4-5 different computers and have never had any problems, am i just lucky or something?


I'll miss Automaix. It was a major time saver, and never caused me any trouble. Two weeks ago I did a Gutsy install without using Automatix, and it was hell. I promised I'd never try that again, but it looks like now I have no choice.

I have been using automatix for a year or so now and have found it to be a big help. I personally have not had any problems with the installs from it.


in my 2+ years of usage and updates, there wasn't a single problem that I encountered which could be traced back to Automatix.

And add me to the list. I used Automatix from 6.06 through 7.04 and on to 7.10 on more than one PC/Laptop and have had no problems with it whatsoever.
Just the opposite, it fixed a few things that didn't work properly without it.

[p_quarles]

I'm not getting this "command line vs. Automatix" rhetoric. This is a false dilemma if ever there were one.

[bruce89]

TBH that's not what SunnyRabbiera is saying, he doesn't say anywhere that a newbie isn't willing to learn. And such an attitude is elitism of the sort that I'd hoped we wouldn't want to express here.

My view is not elitist, I just don't think people should view Ubuntu as a Windows alternative. People should have a reasonable expectation of what Ubuntu entails before using it. Expecting it to be "just like Windows" is wrong.

[SunnyRabbiera]

What's wrong with Add/Remove?

Synaptic could probably work with a little Facelift :) Although I've never used Automatix, so I don't know what it was like :p

add/remove is good, but it still needs the media repos to give people what they need.

[23meg]

No, the line "What has been posted on these forums in the past has gone way beyond civil criticism, there have been vitriolic personal attacks made" was an observation addressed directly at a quote from you.

Which?

As for here and now, "Ding dong the witch is dead" and "good riddance" are hardly civil criticism?

They aren't.

If it caused such mayhem as you claim, then these forums would have crashed under the weight of cries for help.
Even in this thread about the closure of Automatix there isn't a single post telling a story of problems with Automatix.
Quite the reverse:

Apparently you didn't read or didn't understand post #53 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4601146&postcount=53).

[gn2]

Apparently you didn't read or didn't understand post #53 (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4601146&postcount=53).

I did read it and I did understand it.

The "factual evidence" is stated by the reviewer as being "initial conclusions" and are his "individual opinion".

Issues are variously described as:
"nitpick"
"primarily cosmetic"
"more of an irritation than anything dangerous"
"probably not a real problem"
"(small
but existing) potential to leave a system in an unbootable state"

No conclusive proof that Automatix will definitely cause breakage exists in that review and the author states it is purely opinion and actively seeks factual corrections.

You yourself clearly state that you are assuming that Automatix caused breakage.

[p_quarles]

I did read it and I did understand it.

The "factual evidence" is stated by the reviewer as being "initial conclusions" and are his "individual opinion".

Issues are variously described as:
"nitpick"
"primarily cosmetic"
"more of an irritation than anything dangerous"
"probably not a real problem"
"(small
but existing) potential to leave a system in an unbootable state"

No conclusive proof that Automatix will definitely cause breakage exists in that review and the author states it is purely opinion and actively seeks factual corrections.

You yourself clearly state that you are assuming that Automatix caused breakage.
Actually, there is technical evidence for 23meg's claims. While some of these issues were allegedly fixed in the final version, the following describes some of the problems with the software:
http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html

It is not the case that Automatix "will definitely cause breakage." The point is that its design flaws made it unsuitable for production systems, and was not shipped with warnings about the increased potential for breakage during a version upgrade. Sure, it had its uses and its loyalists, but these two points never made it an ideal tool to recommend to new users wanting minimal complications.

[LaRoza]

Since this project has ended, and whether it was a good/bad program is now moot, don't y'all think this thread should be laid to rest?

[23meg]

Issues are variously described as:
"nitpick"
"primarily cosmetic"
"more of an irritation than anything dangerous"
"probably not a real problem"
"(small
but existing) potential to leave a system in an unbootable state"


Those are obviously the ones you've carefully picked to support your case. The whole thing is there for all to see.

No conclusive proof that Automatix will definitely cause breakage exists in that review

True. Nor is it required. No conclusive proof that "killall -9"ing dpkg will cause system-wide breakage in every case is present. Nor is it required. Would you advise people to do it in the Absolute Beginner Talk forum? How many times could you get by without getting corrected and warned not to pass on harmful advice?

Bad practice is bad practice, regardless of whether it satisfies a genuine need and helps people who have that need. If something satisfies a genuine need, but does so by improper practices, those practices need to be corrected, or different means need to be resorted to. The Automatix people have refused to fix these issues for years. You can find evidence of arnieboy going over many childish fights insisting on things like not removing the --force-yes flag by doing a search right here. To their credit, they did fix certain things, after much drama, and new ones cropped up. And by the time they finally agreed to sit down and work with people who could inform them about good practices, Automatix had become largely redundant with the built-in tools (thanks to efforts such as common-customizations (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/common-customizations)).

You yourself clearly state that you are assuming that Automatix caused breakage.

I'm "assuming", in the same sense that you'd "assume" a car can hit you on a busy street if you don't look both ways before crossing the street, don't use the pedestrian crossing and don't care about traffic lights. I wouldn't advise these practices to anyone, and I wouldn't advise anyone to blindly take the word of anyone who does.

[ubuntu-freak]

Since this project has ended, and whether it was a good/bad program is now moot, don't y'all think this thread should be laid to rest?


It seems there are still users who need reassuring that it's not the end of the world.

Nathan

[23meg]

Since this project has ended, and whether it was a good/bad program is now moot

Evaluating the past critically and learning from the mistakes of others is good for progress. There would be no history to learn from if everything became moot the moment it ended.

[LaRoza]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=561944

In it goes...

[LaRoza]

Closed by request of OP.

RIP, thread and automatix.