Why i use Debian and Ubuntu

[jdhore]

Basically, i thought i'd make a post about why i use both. I thought it might be an entertaining/interesting read and some others might learn something.

First off, let me say, I was a Debian Developer way back in the day (around 2002/2003) and i don't mean to boast, but if you're using any Debian-based distro since then, you're using my code.

Why i use(d) Ubuntu:
I used/used Ubuntu for one simple reason: I'm lazy. Sure, it's fun to play with Gentoo and Arch and all these advanced distros, but sometimes i wanna be lazy and not have a distro that i have to maintain and spend 4 hours installing packages to get everything to work nicely (codecs, flash, nvidia package from the binary from nvidia.com, etc).

Why i basically stopped using Ubuntu:
Simply (again): The Ubuntu devs are idiots. In gutsy, i believe about 3 months ago, a new kernel or something hit the repos and it broke A LOT of people's systems...on a "stable" release...Unacceptable...Also, in Hardy, post-Alpha 6, the devs pushed a new kernel to the repos...and *oops* FORGOT TO ENABLE ANY SOUND SUPPORT AT ALL! Also, about a week after the kernel incident, there was a libc6/glibc update...That broke EVERYTHING to the point where you couldn't even chroot in to fix it. Maybe i'm just "floating" this, but the Ubuntu devs are PAID whereas the Debian and ArchLinux devs aren't, and i haven't seen this many problems in Arch since i started playing with it in 2004 or Debian in the 1.5 years running Unstable and the 4 years running Testing. So that only proves one thing to me: That the Ubuntu devs are incompetent. Hell, if i was at my day job, and i did that Gutsy update on one of the servers, i could possibly get suspended or fired (I couldn't, but there are offices like that)...Yet the Ubuntu devs screw up this much and still have a job.

Finally, Why i run Debian (Testing):
I run Debian Testing for multiple reasons:
1. It's extremely stable...I've never had a real breakage in Testing in the 4 years i've been running it.
2. It's much faster than Ubuntu in every test i've run.
3. It endorses Free Software guidelines better than Ubuntu...That doesn't bother me too much, but i still like it.
4. It's quite up-to-date.
5. It has the absolutely perfect balance of stability, quality and up-to-date-ness.

[kerry_s]

i use a custom debian etch/lenny install. built from the base up.
i find debian just works better on my old rig.
i've tried returning again and again to ubuntu, but it has always let me down, something always go's screwy.
with debian it's solid you install it once and your set, if something go's wrong it's most likely my fault, i like to tinker under the hood. :)
my systems 450mhz 256mb ram laptop, i use jwm for my window manager and other lite programs, i have to do alot of things at once for it to even use swap, most of the time swap is never used.
it's just great, love it.
:lolflag:

ps: thanks for your past effort in debian, i appreciate it. :)

[jdhore]

i use a custom debian etch/lenny install. built from the base up.
i find debian just works better on my old rig.
i've tried returning again and again to ubuntu, but it has always let me down, something always go's screwy.
with debian it's solid you install it once and your set, if something go's wrong it's most likely my fault, i like to tinker under the hood. :)
my systems 450mhz 256mb ram laptop, i use jwm for my window manager and other lite programs, i have to do alot of things at once for it to even use swap, most of the time swap is never used.
it's just great, love it.
:lolflag:

ps: thanks for your past effort in debian, i appreciate it. :)

That's the other great thing about Debian...It'll run just fine on old or even ancient Hardware...I still have a copy of Sarge sitting around if i ever need to run on like a Pentium 1 box or something and...Yea...I doubt the Ubuntu alternate CD would even boot let alone install.

[kerry_s]

That's the other great thing about Debian...It'll run just fine on old or even ancient Hardware...I still have a copy of Sarge sitting around if i ever need to run on like a Pentium 1 box or something and...Yea...I doubt the Ubuntu alternate CD would even boot let alone install.

yes, ubuntu will work to, but they have cut out alot of things for older stuff, to add support for newer things.
p1 time to toss that sucker, lol, i've seen etch work on 233mhz 32mb ram. so it might even go there, but i wouldn't.

i feeling minimal this month, did away with all the fancy icons, so not much to look at. pic's

[jdhore]

yes, ubuntu will work to, but they have cut out alot of things for older stuff, to add support for newer things.
p1 time to toss that sucker, lol, i've seen etch work on 233mhz 32mb ram. so it might even go there, but i wouldn't.

i feeling minimal this month, did away with all the fancy icons, so not much to look at. pic's

lol...I think you misunderstood me. I still HAVE A P1, but i don't use it...No system i actually use on a semi-regular basis is slower than a 2.4GhZ Pentium 4

[Caraibes]

I run Debian Testing for multiple reasons:
1. It's extremely stable...I've never had a real breakage in Testing in the 4 years i've been running it.
2. It's much faster than Ubuntu in every test i've run.
3. It endorses Free Software guidelines better than Ubuntu...That doesn't bother me too much, but i still like it.
4. It's quite up-to-date.
5. It has the absolutely perfect balance of stability, quality and up-to-date-ness.
What a great post 1 You expressed exactly my own feeling ! I now run Debian Testing as well. And I also run Debian Stable on various other PC's, and Debian Testing on my older Mac iBook G3 (ppc, 600Mhz...)
Anyway, that is in no way a disrespect to other distros, or other Debian offsprings... To each his own. But Debian Testing is the "King of the Road" !

[sujoy]

i am considerably new to linux, but i liked ubuntu cause its what made me realise what linux really is and now I am all into debian, both my pc and laptop runs debian now (with arch on my laptop in dual boot), and its the perfect distro i have found so far.

jdhore: i highly appreciate your contribution and being a student of computer engg. myself, i feel greatly inspired. :)

[epimeteo]

Hi,

interesting thread, this one. I understand what you're all saying, but I have some opinions and questions. Here goes.

I've been using ubuntu since 2005 and I've also had my "breakage" with it, most of them until Edgy. Since Feisty I can't say I had a real problem like those posted on the first post. Can't remember of even a "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" since Feisty. I try to use only ubuntu repositories and being very careful about what I install from other repos. I do not use compiz & desktop effects, even with a nvidia graphic card.

There are many Debian developers that are developers at Debian too. Ubuntu contracted some of them. So It's hard for me to think that Ubuntu developers are more or less than the Debian ones. At least in the packaging development, from what I've found in the mailing lists and bug support of both distros they are almost the same people.

But I also have my problems with Ubuntu. Some package are not up to date, mainly in the universe repository. And I must wait 6 month for a new ubuntu release, hopefully with a new version of that package and for that I'll have to "dist-upgrade" or use "unsupported backports" (if that package is backported) or reinstall. I'm getting tired of this part. LTS is how Ubuntu deals with this, but I don't want a system that be 1 and a half years outdated. For the same reason, Etch doesn't attract me as well.

Debian testing seems to be where the real more-up-to-date-stuff is. But can it be used for the every day Desktop? In 4 years of Debian Testing did you had any problem with dependencies that changed, xorg problems while newer versions of xorg were available? I ask that because if I tried to dist-upgrade a Dapper to Hardy, it wouldn't work.

How does those things don't break in Debian Lenny? Can Debian Lenny, when used as the every day desktop, be a "Ubuntu 0x.x Always Latest Packages"?

[p_quarles]

How does those things don't break in Debian Lenny? Can Debian Lenny, when used as the every day desktop, be a "Ubuntu 0x.x Always Latest Packages"?
Things do break in Testing. At the same time, the development model of Debian is specifically looking for broken things in Testing, so they tend to get repaired relatively quickly.

You don't have the irreperable breakage like you do with Ubuntu dist-upgrades simply because everything upgrades in smaller steps.

It should also be noted, however, that Debian Testing is currently very far along in the development process, and is scheduled to be released as Stable later this year. Users shouldn't always expect it to be as stable as it currently is.

[Caraibes]

Debian testing seems to be where the real more-up-to-date-stuff is. But can it be used for the every day Desktop?
This is precisely the experience I am doing right now... I am running Debian Testing on my desktop for my everyday life (work, play and all...)
I don't run Compiz. My repos are the regular Debian Testing (main, contrib, non-free), plus Skype, Google Picasa and Opera...
I have Debian Stable on 4 other (older) PC's, but Testing looks more fun...
I plan to analyze if it is "stable" enough (what a paradox for a Testing version!)
If not, I would be ok to return to Stable...

[deepclutch]

well!I completely agrees to @jdhore.even I am a Debian Sid user.even in Sid,rarely that I have to try a force option.
Debian -I like it for the community,their Social Contract,packages acc to dfsg and more :)

[jdhore]

I'm trying to respond to 4 of you here, so instead of quoting, i'm going to @ you all :)

@epimeteo - I can't comment on Ubuntu not breaking because basically, every Ubuntu dist-upgrade has caused me issues. Also, Debian Testing is about as up-to-date as Hardy is now. As far as being able to use it as a working desktop machine without major breakages, that's easy. In order for a package to merge into Testing, It must not have any grave, serious or critical bugs, it must work on every architecture Debian supports (there are exceptions, but for the most part, you get the idea) and, with certain exceptions, must be in Unstable for 30 days. X.Org 7.3 isn't in Testing yet, but with 7.0-7.2, there were never any breakages. The only breakages i can remember in the time i've used Testing is when we went from the 2.4 kernel to the 2.6 kernel and when we went from XFree86 to X.org. Also, it can more than be used well on a desktop. I know plenty of people who are running Debian Testing on their production servers. The quick and dirty answer is that Debian Testing is more stable than Ubuntu Stable.

@p_quarles - You're a bit incorrect. Testing is *NOT* where Debian is looking for broken things so much...That would be Unstable...Testing is just having a somewhat-stable (in the Debian terms of stable) "testing ground" to fix minor bugs and basically be a gateway between the craziness of Unstable and the ancient packages of Stable. Debian Testing isn't far along in the development process i wouldn't say though...They haven't even done a "minor" repo freeze for stabilizing let alone the major repo freeze...They're planning to put X.Org 7.3 or 7.4 and Kernel 2.6.24 or 2.6.25 in Lenny and as of right now, none of them are in Lenny, so i'd say the development is kind of just beginning. :P Also, really the only time that Testing development is a bit crazy is right after a Stable release when craptons of packages are merging in, but it's still pretty stable during that time as well.

@Caraibes - I know people who have almost less issues on Testing on their boxes than they did with Stable so....

@deepclutch - I agree with you somewhat...I like the dfsg to a point, but as soon as it starts to impact usability, my liking goes down. For example, in Lenny, there are no nVidia drivers, this doesn't REALLY bother me as I can easily install them with the nVidia blob from their site, but having the drivers in the repos is easier.

[SunnyRabbiera]

The thing though about debian that I dont like is that its not as media ready as ubuntu, it takes quite a bit to make it ready for the everyday user.
I would say the best version of debian is mepis, it is media ready and shares debains stability.
As for the ubuntu development team being stupid, there I disagree as I feel that the team does a fair job.
Stuff is expected to break during the beta and alpha phases of the OS, all operating systems share this even debian if you are not careful.

[jdhore]

The thing though about debian that I dont like is that its not as media ready as ubuntu, it takes quite a bit to make it ready for the everyday user.
I would say the best version of debian is mepis, it is media ready and shares debains stability.
As for the ubuntu development team being stupid, there I disagree as I feel that the team does a fair job.
Stuff is expected to break during the beta and alpha phases of the OS, all operating systems share this even debian if you are not careful.

I agree that Debian is not as media-ready as Ubuntu now that mplayer, w32codecs, flash, etc isn't in the repos, but by adding the debian-multimedia repo (which IMO is better than Medibuntu), you can easily get all that back. I'm not a big fan of Mepis simply because up until the latest release, the Developer did a ton of flip-flopping and that doesn't make me too happy.

As far as the developers being idiots...Basically, if you're pushing updates that could cause breakages:
1. Test them on a "bitch box" that you've ghost imaged or something so that you don't cause users to have a million issues (Debian devs do this)
EDIT: ESPECIALLY if they're a major package like the kernel or glibc or gcc or some such.
2. Do the above, and/or double-check your packages BEFORE uploading them to the repos so you don't screw over users with your stupid mistakes (Amazingly, Debian devs do this too...in all the time following the Debian-Devel-Changes (packages merged into Unstable) mailing list, i've never seen a backout happen).

[SunnyRabbiera]

still I would never recommend debian for the beginner, its just too "hardcore linux" user for the newbie relying on terminals and such.
Plus its installer is also too old fashioned for the beginner, if debian had a proper live CD I would be more talkative about it.

[jdhore]

still I would never recommend debian for the beginner, its just too "hardcore linux" user for the newbie relying on terminals and such.
Plus its installer is also too old fashioned for the beginner, if debian had a proper live CD I would be more talkative about it.

I would completely agree with those 2 statements (Except for the installer being old-fashioned...I rather like it, but that's me). The reason i think these are good is because it give Debian a bit of a "walled garden"...If you're really a noob, you're not going to be able to pull off a Debian install so the Debian community doesn't have to deal with people like that (see 9/10 support posts on the support section of these forums and you'll see what i'm talking about) and i think the community is better as a whole because of it.

[markharding557]

i use debian testing not because it is superior but because it runs better on my athlon m/c.
ubuntu is targeted at new users,debian is not that's the main difference.
although i use debian now i still think ubuntu does a very important job in catering for new users.
i have to agree with jdhores comments on ubuntu developers in that a little more caution on their part would cause less problems i think ubuntu development is too time pressured

[kerry_s]

still I would never recommend debian for the beginner, its just too "hardcore linux" user for the newbie relying on terminals and such.
Plus its installer is also too old fashioned for the beginner, if debian had a proper live CD I would be more talkative about it.

i grant you your wish for a live cd. \\:D/
http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/

for the fancy installer you type> installgui
than you get that pretty point and click fun.

[jdhore]

i grant you your wish for a live cd. \\:D/
http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/

for the fancy installer you type> installgui
than you get that pretty point and click fun.

The Debian Live is going well, but it's far from "good".
Also, as for a GUI installer...the Debian GUI installer is just the nCurses installer with GTK buttons

[SunnyRabbiera]

I would completely agree with those 2 statements (Except for the installer being old-fashioned...I rather like it, but that's me). The reason i think these are good is because it give Debian a bit of a "walled garden"...If you're really a noob, you're not going to be able to pull off a Debian install so the Debian community doesn't have to deal with people like that (see 9/10 support posts on the support section of these forums and you'll see what i'm talking about) and i think the community is better as a whole because of it.

yeh but a community must be friendly to newcommers no matter what, I dont think its a good thing if the debian community is that elitist towards newbies, it makes the rest of linux look bad.

[jdhore]

yeh but a community must be friendly to newcommers no matter what, I dont think its a good thing if the debian community is that elitist towards newbies, it makes the rest of linux look bad.

The Debian community is friendly to intelligent newcomers or newcomers willing to learn and provide good information, whereas Ubuntu is an open door where people who bitch that it doesn't act like Windows in one minor circumstance get support pretty decently. The Debian community is slightly elitist toward newbies cuz when you have a large community of newbies, you spend most of your time with improvements to make things easier for them instead of improvements to make things better for everyone.

[SunnyRabbiera]

yeh but a community still needs to be open to newcomers.

[jdhore]

yeh but a community still needs to be open to newcomers.

you may have missed the point of my last post a bit which is completely understandable...The Debian Community IS open to newcomers, but they must be either willing to lear on intelligent...If they fit one of the 2, the Debian community welcomes them with open arms.

[epimeteo]

Installing a Debian system isn't hard at all, but noobs and windows-only users have to have some brains and read the Debian manual (http://www.debian.org/doc/). If the user have the intelligence to do that little step, then he will find how easy Debian is. But the RTFM step is not a faculty of all computer users and human beings. :)

[jdhore]

Installing a Debian system isn't hard at all, but noobs and windows-only users have to have some brains and read the Debian manual (http://www.debian.org/doc/). If the user have the intelligence to do that little step, then he will find how easy Debian is. But the RTFM step is not a faculty of all computer users and human beings. :)

Well put, this is what i was trying to say...but...i suck at sounding professional

[deepclutch]

heh!:D but seeing a curses based installer make n00bs panic :lol:

[notwen]

Ran Debian since potato and have been fan ever since. Currently run Etch on my file server, but for the exact reasons mentioned in above posts regarding setup and media friendliness, I run Ubuntu on my daily usage laptop. If I ever come across some free time I'll have to try out the latest testing release. =]

[stream303]

The Debian Community IS open to newcomers, but they must be either willing to lear on intelligent...If they fit one of the 2, the Debian community welcomes them with open arms.

Even better - if you are a Mac PPC user, and need help getting Debian up and running, I'd be happy to assist in any way I can even if that means hand-holding. I got more from Ubuntu than just an OS, but a spirit of helping. Those who don't want to help newcomers don't have to, but there are a few of us who don't mind it one bit.

PPC hardware is unique because it is commonly used by newcomers, but the hardware has quirks that can throw you off, even if you do all your homework beforehand. Sometimes you need just that step up.

There is nothing more gratifying to see the words "it works!" coming from a newcomer, and THEN seeing him/her helping others afterwards. That's what it is all about for me.

Many ppc debian / ubuntu users are immediately faced with passing kernel paramaters at boot time, editing their xorg.conf manually to overcome apple shortcomings, editing their boot manager (yaboot), using OpenFirmware, and so forth. A little hand-holding goes a long way, and quite a few have returned to help me out and taught me a thing or two. :)

A ppc user who hangs in there can go from total noob to a seasoned user in just one or two installs. I guess the point is that I see no reason not to apply the spirit of Ubuntu to anyone using Debian. Win-win.

[Vorian Grey]

They haven't even done a "minor" repo freeze for stabilizing let alone the major repo freeze...They're planning to put X.Org 7.3 or 7.4 and Kernel 2.6.24 or 2.6.25 in Lenny and as of right now, none of them are in Lenny, so i'd say the development is kind of just beginning. :P

They are in a "soft freeze" and an update yesterday brought me a 2.6.24.1 kernel. They seem to be right on target for a September/October release.

I have been running Testing for all of a week and I like it. I was running sidux before that and I like being up to date but Sid is crazy right now. Straight Debian has been a little difficult but where's the fun in doing something easy all the time.

[jdhore]

They are in a "soft freeze" and an update yesterday brought me a 2.6.24.1 kernel. They seem to be right on target for a September/October release.

I have been running Testing for all of a week and I like it. I was running sidux before that and I like being up to date but Sid is crazy right now. Straight Debian has been a little difficult but where's the fun in doing something easy all the time.

You must be using a VERY slow repo if you only got the 2.6.24 kernel yesterday...I got it exactly 5 days ago now...

now as far as Sid...Sid is always crazy, and sometimes it's hard to keep up...Sidux claims to make this much more bearable, but they're lying as it's no better and no worse than straight Sid (i've run both)...In my opinion, Testing is the best version of Debian IMO and it has been for many years.

[Vorian Grey]

You must be using a VERY slow repo if you only got the 2.6.24 kernel yesterday...I got it exactly 5 days ago now...
.

To be honest I've just around to updating yesterday. Work has been busy as has home stuff. I'll try to do better in the future. :)

The thing I dislike about Sidux is the thing I like about it ......being totally up-to-date.Things break and they are fixed. Constantly. Many times it's even several times a day for the same fix. It drives me crazy. And if you wait to update once a week it's this huge file. I like something a little more stable. Testing seems to be for me.

A quick question (off topic, I know, sorry)...how often should I update testing?

[odiseo77]

A quick question (off topic, I know, sorry)...how often should I update testing?

If you mean update like running apt-get upgrade, I do it daily without problems or as soon as there are updates available (I'm on Gnome and I have update-notifier installed, so I'm notified when there are updates). As for running apt-get dist-upgrade, I do it once in a while (maybe monthly), when I want a specific package upgraded and reading the messages apt-get gives me, so I don't break something.

[jdhore]

To be honest I've just around to updating yesterday. Work has been busy as has home stuff. I'll try to do better in the future. :)

The thing I dislike about Sidux is the thing I like about it ......being totally up-to-date.Things break and they are fixed. Constantly. Many times it's even several times a day for the same fix. It drives me crazy. And if you wait to update once a week it's this huge file. I like something a little more stable. Testing seems to be for me.

A quick question (off topic, I know, sorry)...how often should I update testing?

I update it daily...but that's me...and Testing has safeguards in place to make sure very few things break.

[deepclutch]

^what is the Gnome version in testing(most packages)?

[jdhore]

^what is the Gnome version in testing(most packages)?

Currently, about half 2.20 and half 2.22

[Caraibes]

^what is the Gnome version in testing(most packages)?

Gnome is 2.22.0 those days in Testing...

[Awayne]

heh!:D but seeing a curses based installer make n00bs panic :lol:
When I started with Linux I didn't even know where to save my files so I saved it all to a folder on my desktop. I ran an older version of Ubuntu before they had any graphical install system. I had to do it all from a text based installer. At the time, not knowing what I was doing, I managed to get it all installed without any hassle and on the first go. So not all "n00bs" are scared off by it. ;-) But for the record, I use Debian for stability and long release cycles. I don't use Ubuntu much because of the 6 month releases and untested (by Debian standards) applications.

[kotek_14]

I started using Linux last May with Ubuntu "Feisty Fawn" and now am using "Gutsy Gibbon". There was a learning curve for me no doubt, but once I actually started using it I found that for me it just blows Windows away. I use Ubuntu on my main desktop. Before I bought it I made sure that the hardware was Linux friendly which for me eliminated a lot of issues. Same deal with my Laptop. I just installed Debian Etch on my Laptop and I am thankful that I started using Linux with Ubuntu, otherwise the learning curve would have been much steeper. But unlike many I was and am willing to roll my sleeves up and stick with it. I have Etch all set up on my Laptop ( installed with all the multimedia stuff, codecs etc) but the challenge now is to get my wireless working. I will go to the Debian forums and here to read the posts on doing that and if I need to I will ask questions. I am still a relative nOOb to Linux and hope that the Ubuntu and Debian communities will put up with what may to them seem like dumb questions.BTW the Debian installer wasn't that hard for me to figure out.

[jdhore]

Gnome is 2.22.0 those days in Testing...

I'd disagree with that exact statement as Totem 2.22 is not in Testing, Nautilus 2.22 is not in testing, GVFS is not in testing, Epiphany 2.22 is not in Testing, Evolution 2.22 is not in Testing, Cheese is not in Testing (to my knowledge)...I'd say those are all integral parts of GNOME and...Yea...not in Testing yet...but new parts of GNOME 2.22 are merging in everyday.

[Caraibes]

I'd disagree with that exact statement as Totem 2.22 is not in Testing, Nautilus 2.22 is not in testing, GVFS is not in testing, Epiphany 2.22 is not in Testing, Evolution 2.22 is not in Testing, Cheese is not in Testing (to my knowledge)...I'd say those are all integral parts of GNOME and...Yea...not in Testing yet...but new parts of GNOME 2.22 are merging in everyday.
Indeed... Your formulation is more accurate... I kinda took a shortcut, by clicking on "system", and then "about Gnome", reading 2.22... But your statement is right...

[deepclutch]

In Sid,most packages are now gnome-2.22(although I can use packages frome experimental repo too ;) ).
there is a total sluggishness in Sid from a week or so. :-|
for eg:Applications menu takes time to load,nautilus etc too.
I have to see what went wrong :?
may be should disable ipv6 support and /etc/hosts emtries too! :D

(offtopic: also dual booting gentoo ,which is much fast and archlinux+kdemod)

[jdhore]

In Sid,most packages are now gnome-2.22(although I can use packages frome experimental repo too ;) ).
there is a total sluggishness in Sid from a week or so. :-|
for eg:Applications menu takes time to load,nautilus etc too.
I have to see what went wrong :?
may be should disable ipv6 support and /etc/hosts emtries too! :D

(offtopic: also dual booting gentoo ,which is much fast and archlinux+kdemod)

With Sid, i believe there are bugs and things get merged in too fast so it's kind of slow...Also, if you're running Sid, you WILL break your system eventually, no matter how careful you are, it WILL happen.

[deepclutch]

^yes.I do have to force overwrite packages. :p but it was going smooth over years now :-|
I think there was some problems with hal/gnome-system-tools/system-tools-backends sometime back.
Will look .

[Shakey_Jake33]

I've switched my secondary machine to Debian Testing this weekend, and plan to switch my main machine when I'm satisfied.

I love Ubuntu to bits, I really do, but I just don't like the team's policy on updating. Any major revisions to anything are held until the next Ubuntu revision, and I liked to be at the bleeding edge somewhat. I know proposed and backports are supposed to serve that purpose, but they just don't. I also love how Debian Testing is a rolling release, no updating to an entire new OS revision every 6 months. I'd of LOVED to use Sidux, but... ew KDE :( Their main support is over IRC too, which isn't very convenient.

Mind you, I think if I'd of started with Debian, I'd of been scared back to Windows, so I'm glad I began with Ubuntu. It's not until you use something like Ubuntu that you realise exactly how much the team has achieve in terms of usability, even simple stuff like mounting a drive requires knowledge about exactly what mounting is etc, which will be alien to anyone coming over fresh from Windows.

You can laugh at my n00ness here though, I don't like how when opening Computer from the desktop, it opens a miniature Nautilus window, and also opens every folder in a separate window. By going to Applications->System Tools->File Browser, I can use the Nautilus I'm familiar with, but how do I make that default?

[odiseo77]

You can laugh at my n00ness here though, I don't like how when opening Computer from the desktop, it opens a miniature Nautilus window, and also opens every folder in a separate window. By going to Applications->System Tools->File Browser, I can use the Nautilus I'm familiar with, but how do I make that default?

On a terminal type (as user):

nautilus-file-management-properties

Then, on the file manager properties window, go to the second tab ("Behavior") and check the option "Always open in a navigator window" (something like that, my system is in Spanish).

[jdhore]

On a terminal type (as user):

nautilus-file-management-properties

Then, on the file manager properties window, go to the second tab ("Behavior") and check the option "Always open in a navigator window" (something like that, my system is in Spanish).

or open a Nautilus window, go to Edit-Preferences, go to the Behavior tab and check: "Always Open in browser windows"

[Vorian Grey]

For a while Sid was acting almost normal but the last week or so it has really been crazy. Makes me glad I'm not using it any more. Testing has been great. I do prefer KDE myself but to each their own.

And I'd use Ubuntu in a heartbeat if they had any sort of rolling release structure.

[Waistless]

Also, in Hardy, post-Alpha 6, the devs pushed a new kernel to the repos...and *oops* FORGOT TO ENABLE ANY SOUND SUPPORT AT ALL! Also, about a week after the kernel incident, there was a libc6/glibc update...That broke EVERYTHING to the point where you couldn't even chroot in to fix it.

Haha, yes I was caught in the middle of that libc6 debacle. It WAS fixable though, I found instructions in the forum thread on the issue which showed me how to chroot from a livecd to replace the libc6 package. I rewarded my resolving skills by moving to debian sid :D

I have to agree with you though on the competence of the devs. A single preliminary test would have picked up that libc6 issue. Hell, all you would have had to do was install it and it would pop up errors.

[jdhore]

Haha, yes I was caught in the middle of that libc6 debacle. It WAS fixable though, I found instructions in the forum thread on the issue which showed me how to chroot from a livecd to replace the libc6 package. I rewarded my resolving skills by moving to debian sid :D

I have to agree with you though on the competence of the devs. A single preliminary test would have picked up that libc6 issue. Hell, all you would have had to do was install it and it would pop up errors.

EXACTLY...or with the kernel...they could've installed it, rebooted, see that sound didn't work, check the changelog just to make sure there aren't any weird things in the changelog that could've messed up sound and then checked the kernel compile config to make sure they didn't screw anything up. That only takes about 5 minutes. I know the devs make excuses (Ooh, you're running a Unstable build so stuff will break), but even in an Unstable build you should do SOME QA...As i said, Debian Unstable even doesn't have issues this big and it's openly extremely Unstable...Also, what makes it worse is that the Ubuntu devs screw up this much, but unlike Debian or Arch devs, the Ubuntu devs are paid.

[zetetic]

If you mean update like running apt-get upgrade, I do it daily without problems or as soon as there are updates available (I'm on Gnome and I have update-notifier installed, so I'm notified when there are updates). As for running apt-get dist-upgrade, I do it once in a while (maybe monthly), when I want a specific package upgraded and reading the messages apt-get gives me, so I don't break something.

I'm running Debian testing for about 2 years, and I do a dist-upgrade almost everyday, with only a few and minor bugs and no breakage at all!

[odiseo77]

I'm running Debian testing for about 2 years, and I do a dist-upgrade almost everyday, with only a few and minor bugs and no breakage at all!

Yep, I do it once in a while and I rarely notice any real risk (I'm running lenny/sid). However, sometimes I get warnings about packages to be deleted and that's when I say people must pay attention to what they do.

[OmniCloud]

This is one of my thread in the Ubuntu section, but it fits here more than that section I guess...lol

I use Fedora 7 right now. I migrated from Ubuntu because my system was just crashing too much. I went to Fedora and none of that nonsense happend.

Now I understand that there could have been some tweaking to my kernel that I could've done, but when I first started i didn't know that. With Fedora, your given the option at log-in to choose which kernel you want to run, so I just tried everyone and found out with one suits my system best.

Now, I'm looking for the complete stablity. Despite all the nudges that the guys at Arch were giving me, one look at the installer and it literally freaked me out. So Arch maybe the perfect Linux--because you kinda make it yourself, but that figuring out the ends and outs of my computer is just not gonna happen right now at my current level.

So, my ultimate goal is Arch, and I'm looking to ease my way into it. Right now I have Xubuntu/DreamLinux and Pup boot-up/Mint and Debian Etch.

What do I do? I want a fast stable computer that I don't have to worry about updating to the next version if I don't want to. I run the basic Compiz, but to be honest, I can live with just the Window switcher. All I need a stable and fast multimedia machine.

Firstly, I love music, so I need to be able to download from apps like Limewire and burn to Cd's with stuff like K3b.

Watch my anime, so I need playback from everything to Dvix to MPG to AVI.

Browse the web with speed and stablity! No crashes when I click on youtube too fast.

The ablity to get user apps like the PSPVC converter or Winff (a front-end to FFMPEG) which both apps have really helped me out a LOT!!!

Now, I got all this working in Ubuntu, but it just acted up fairly randomly so I ditched it. I can do all this is Fedora, but It's not quite fast enough.

I heard Debian Etch is where I should go, but then I hear the apps are so old I might not be able to get all the media support. Dream Linux is supposed to be based off of Etch, but I haven't read anything about it. And I've just read a few good reviews about Xubuntu and how it's a minimal Ubuntu without so much bloat, but then again--I haven't really had an amazing experience with Ubuntu in the past.

Help me!!

Debian Xubuntu or Dream Linux?

[zetetic]

Yep, I do it once in a while and I rarely notice any real risk (I'm running lenny/sid). However, sometimes I get warnings about packages to be deleted and that's when I say people must pay attention to what they do.

You are right. We must pay attention to what packages the dist-upgrade wants to remove.

But, in my experience, a situation where the dist-upgrade wants to remove packages you need is very rare. On 99,9 % of the cases, dist-upgrade only removes packages that are no longer needed or when it will install substitutes for those packages.

[odiseo77]

I heard Debian Etch is where I should go, but then I hear the apps are so old I might not be able to get all the media support. Dream Linux is supposed to be based off of Etch, but I haven't read anything about it. And I've just read a few good reviews about Xubuntu and how it's a minimal Ubuntu without so much bloat, but then again--I haven't really had an amazing experience with Ubuntu in the past.

Help me!!

Debian Xubuntu or Dream Linux?

You could try Xubuntu Hardy when it comes out and see how it goes. Or, you could install Debian Testing (Lenny, at the moment). Debian Testing is quite stable and up-to-date (as up-to-date as Ubuntu may be), so you'll find the newest -but stable- versions of the apps you might need. (And once you've added all the necessary repositories like debian-multimedia, you can get all the codecs you need for video).


But, in my experience, a situation where the dist-upgrade wants to remove packages you need is very rare. On 99,9 % of the cases, dist-upgrade only removes packages that are no longer needed or when it will install substitutes for those packages.

I agree :)