Should Ubuntu be renamed to Ubuntu GNU/Linux?

[awtomlinson]

what do you guys think? Personally, I think that saying Linux is much easier than saying GNU/Linux, but we HAVE to give props to the GNU community. without them, there would be no Ubuntu, no Linux, etc. debian is called debian GNU/Linux.

[mstlyevil]

what do you guys think? Personally, I think that saying Linux is much easier than saying GNU/Linux, but we HAVE to give props to the GNU community. without them, there would be no Ubuntu, no Linux, etc. debian is called debian GNU/Linux.

Just semantics. It doesn't really matter.

[WildTangent]

no thanks...ill stick with my Ubuntu

-Wild

[darkmatter]

Doesn't have the same ring to it...

[FLeiXiuS]

Linux is based on GNU, they have PLENTY of respect from all users.

[az]

Linux is based on GNU, they have PLENTY of respect from all users.
Actually, linux is just the kernel. The other bits of the operating system are gnu or built with the gnu toolchain.

But the reality is that linux is a catch-all word for linux, open source, Gnu/linux, free software, etc....

[FLeiXiuS]

Actually, linux is just the kernel. The other bits of the operating system are gnu or built with the gnu toolchain.

But the reality is that linux is a catch-all word for linux, open source, Gnu/linux, free software, etc....

I meant in GENERAL, basically what you had stated above. The catch-all word.

[Lovechild]

No, it should just stay Ubuntu - I hate it when people add Linux or GNU/Linux to the brand name. My desktop runs Ubuntu, the environment is the Ubuntu environment - this system happens to be based on the Linux kernel, the GNU userspace tools and the GNOME desktop, but it is Ubuntu. Now what's underneath my desktop, as long as it runs, I don't really care if it is OpenSolaris, *BSD, Hurd, Linux or any number of other kernels. If it does what I expect it to, I don't care.

Ubuntu is better for branding and it's not like anyones hiding the fact that Ubuntu is using technology from these various projects is it?

[skoal]

As others have pointed out, most will call it Ubuntu no matter what you tack onto the end. Same with Debian. That's what most call it now anyways.

Recognition for one's accomplishments is _best_ left for others to provide, IMO. Otherwise, you come across as [...]. Why the recent fascination with this? Personally, I'll just leave such praise or recognition to the historians.

We all know who's behind linux. What's the agenda, err, I mean point? It's perfectly sufficient for most, I assume, that we call our black running shoes as Nike(s), not "Air Pegasus 2005 China/Nike".

\\//_

[primeirocrime]

I use a GNU/Linux operating system in a distribution called Ubuntu 5.10 Breezy Badger. It's quite complex to say this to a friend while proselytizing [I checked the spelling on this big word, and to my content I got it right] ubuntu.

Let's keep things simple, when I first started out using gnu/linux I thought it was just linux, eventually I got to read on the web the why's who's what's how's like everyone does; everyone will stumble upon it just like we all did. Besides that Ubuntu [african humanism concept] Breezy Badger[windy animal?]Gnu[an animal]/Linux[penguin logo] is indeed full of strange symbolism and it's a semiotic nightmare.

[Cirkus]

The entire point is to promote the idea of Free (as in speech) software. If you can do so by simply calling it 'ubuntu' then great. But I suspect that you really can not do that; so personally speaking I would prefer to call it 'GNUbuntu'.

[landotter]

Gosh no. I say Ubuntu Linux or Breezy or Linux. I appreciate greatly what GNU stands for and has done, but you can't force language--Linux has become the defacto name for the whole package. If you're deep in a conversation with a noob, sure, bring it up. Same goes for if you're writing a formal scientific paper, then you might want to use GNU/Linux.

I lost any sympathies for Stallman's insistance on this the first time I saw him dressed up as St. Ignutius. What a baffoon. What a very brilliant and essential baffoon.

[az]

How about this:

We call it Ubuntulinux until someone asks and then we whip out our fat GNU bifter.


A plan?

[AgenT]

-5 Flame Bait

Should we remove EMACS from all repositories and proclain VI king?



Move along everyone... move along... nothing to see here except bait catching fire... :rolleyes:

[az]

and proclain VI king?

:


Vi? or VIM?


*giggle*

[skoal]

We call it Ubuntulinux until someone asks and then we whip out our fat GNU bifter.

A plan?
I think so. You'll have to explain to me first what a "bifter" is. I must admit, I had to hit the 'ole dictionary.com site, but still no luck. I thought maybe a typo there for a sec, but I only came up with "butter" instead. Mmmm...fat GNU butter...

Either way, I think we all agree GNU is vital. By the way, I've only ever called the Hurd OS as just that. Hurd. Oh well, now I'm being redundant. My specialty!

\\//_

[23meg]

I care much less for the Stallman vs. Torvalds naming wars than I used to, but I think Ubuntu should have been called Ubuntu GNU/Linux at the first place solely on the basis that Debian, on which it's based, has called itself GNU/Linux since its birth; the naming convention should have been inherited. But now that it's settled down, as a former poster said, there's no meaning in forcing language; people will stick with what they find most convenient anyway.

Plus, I've heard very few mentions of the term "Ubuntu Linux"; most people just call it "Ubuntu".

[matthew]

I vote for just saying "Ubuntu." Besides, doesn't the GNU license allow me to do whatever I want with the software...including ignore the original name?

So, according to my rights as a user of GNU software made possible by the Free Software Foundation I choose NOT to say GNU/Linux just because I can.

:):):)

[skoal]

So, according to my rights as a user of GNU software made possible by the Free Software Foundation I choose NOT to say GNU/Linux just because I can.
It just doesn't get any better than that...

Somehow, I think that statement could be picked apart by some, but it's just too damn funny and should stand on it's own merit...

\\//_

[Kvark]

Why not add some more and name it something like this while we are at it:
"Ubuntu, Gnome edition, based on Debian GNU/Linux"

Or just call it "Ubuntu" people will figure out or hear about which kernel, toolchain, and all else it is based on if they care about it. The name is just a trademark, it's not supposed to contain any useful info.

[UbuWu]

No!!! Just keep it Ubuntu. :D

[az]

Somehow, I think that statement could be picked apart by some,

\\//_


It can. It really can. Not me, not here, not now, though...


...And you smoke a bifter. People tend to not know you have one, but are really happy to find out that you do.

[Cirkus]

-5 Flame Bait

Should we remove EMACS from all repositories and proclain VI king?



Move along everyone... move along... nothing to see here except bait catching fire... :rolleyes:
I say we should delete both and replace them with symlinks to abiword :D

[mtron]

I'm for Ubuntu debain Linux

I know Mark is against it, (saw the debconf presentation), but due to the fact that ubuntu is a "stabilized" debian sid ( and more, i know) , we should pay more respect to our mother debian.

An endless discussion what ubuntu is, can be found on the debian-devel list (from June 2005) http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2005/06/threads.html#00000

Matt has some very good statements there. (although the discussion is basicly about cooperation between debian and ubuntu)

[pascual]

what do you guys think? Personally, I think that saying Linux is much easier than saying GNU/Linux, but we HAVE to give props to the GNU community. without them, there would be no Ubuntu, no Linux, etc. debian is called debian GNU/Linux.

We all know that is GNU with Linux. Richard Stallman always enphasizes this in his conferences. So I bet for GNU/Linux, and when asked for your distro name, just answer Ubuntu or whatever.

Cheers.

[lovebug356]

No, just Ubuntu.
Linux, GNU, ... all have respect from the Ubuntu users.

P.S.: Else, Where do you draw the line? Do you need to add other names that are crusial to the development of linux?

[Pekkalainen]

As I see it we either call it just Ubuntu or we call it Ubuntu GNU/Linux. Calling a GNU/Linux system just Linux is disrespectful. For marketing purposes just Ubuntu will be best I think.

[matthew]

I would like to announce that I have seen the light. Inclusiveness is vital to the survival of the human race and all that is good. We must immediately make sure that everyone gets proper credit for everything in the FLOSS (Free/Libre Open Source Software) world and that all version numbers are properly cited. In that vein I have decided that we should use one of the following titles:

Ubuntu GNU/Linux version x.xx based on Debian version x.xx running the Gnome desktop version x.xx and the Nautilus file manager and graphical version x.xx on the X.Org xserver version x.x.x which was based on the XFree86 xserver before it was forked due to a conflict over proprietary code.

-or-

Kubuntu GNU/Linux version x.xx based on Debian version x.xx running the KDE desktop version x.xx and the Konquerer file manager and graphical version x.xx on the X.Org xserver version x.x.x which was based on the XFree86 xserver before it was forked due to a conflict over proprietary code.

-or-

Xubuntu GNU/Linux version x.xx based on Debian version x.xx running the Xfce4 desktop version x.xx and the Rox file manager and graphical version x.xx on the X.Org xserver version x.x.x which was based on the XFree86 xserver before it was forked due to a conflict over proprietary code.

Yeah, it will require a little bit more ink and advertising will be a bit difficult, but for the sake of accuracy and inclusiveness in our attribution I think it is necessary.

EDIT: As I read these a second time I became a little bit concerned because I am still not giving credit to the Mozilla/Epiphany/Opera/Lynx developers who have all worked quite hard to provide me with a web browser and I just wasn't sure how to include all the wonderful game developers whose hard work is sitting on my system uncredited every time I mention to my friends how wonderful my OS is... and, oh man, the list is so long. I just feel so bad.

---end of feeble attempt at humor, start of real thoughts---

Okay, before PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) gets the best of me and I go way too far over the edge, my point is simple. In the FLOSS world people created software for free--both as in beer and as in liberty. The license they use when they release it gives others the right to use and modify that software as long as the original author is given credit for her work. Anyone who wants to find out who made/provided a specific program or group of programs can do so...no one is really being slighted. Anyone who cares even the slightest bit can discover quite easily that Linux is just the kernel, most of the operating system came from the Free Software Foundation's wonderful GNU project.

Most people don't care and they shouldn't have to, especially the non-geek user who is being courted. "Look at my system, it's better than Windows, but you have to call it...__________." That's silly.

If people are upset about not receiving massive amounts of glowing praise and credit for work they did as volunteers who just love computers and making them do new and interesting things and which was released to the world under a free license then they should not have used a free license. To go to an extreme to make my point, you really would have to change the definition of "free" to mean "at no cost except that you have to mention the name 'Richard Stallman' and the 'Free Software Foundation' every single time you refer to a product that uses work they contributed to." That's no freer than having to read a EULA and click away your rights when installing proprietary software.

I don't contest the name GNU/Linux is more accurate for the operating system. I protest the inane demand by a bunch of over-sensitive crybabies [description not necessarily directed at any of the previous posters in this thread] that want the world to know how hurt they are every time someone fails to take notice of their hard work. To be honest, I greatly appreciate what has been produced by the FSF and think the GNU project has accomplished some wonderful things. I just can't stand the compulsive and whiney attitude that some people show. "But the kernel isn't the WHOLE operating system...they're using GNU software!" No one who reads past the most basic of Linux introductions thinks otherwise. The GNU software was written and released freely and lovingly to the world. Rejoice, then in its use and adoption.

Well, PTSD got the best of me anyway... </rant>

EDIT: I have read this page: http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html and I don't think Stallman is whining in it. I understand his point, I just respectfully disagree from a practical usage standpoint.

[xequence]

I hate the gnu/linux name. Gnu is known by all, it is omnipresent in everything linux and many things windows.

It just plain sounds stupid. Debian Gnu/Linux. Doesent it just roll off the tongue? Nope ;) Deb-i-en guh-noo lin-ux. It just plain sounds stupid.

Ubuntu. Ou-bun-tuu. :)

[bdash]

We should call it: Ubuntu GNU/Linux/Debian/Mozilla/Python/OpenOffice/Gaim/Mono.

This will be much clearer for everyone.

[kanem]

As I see it we either call it just Ubuntu or we call it Ubuntu GNU/Linux. Calling a GNU/Linux system just Linux is disrespectful. For marketing purposes just Ubuntu will be best I think.
Totally agree. Unfortunately on Ubuntu's home page (http://www.ubuntulinux.org/) it's referred to as the Ubuntu Linux distribution. Maybe it should just read Ubuntu distribution.

[matthew]

I've already said a lot...just wanted to add a quote from Richard Stallman.

Doesn't the GNU project support an individual's free speech rights to call the system by any name that individual chooses? (http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#TOCfreespeech)
Yes, indeed, we believe you have a free speech right to call the operating system by any name you wish. We ask that people call it GNU/Linux as a matter of doing justice to the GNU project, to promote the values of freedom that GNU stands for, and to inform others that those values of freedom brought the system into existence. http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#freespeech

From a little bit lower in the page (read the whole page for Stallman's take on the subject, my out of context quote doesn't do him justice) we can read:
"To confuse matters, some people use the term "operating system" to mean "kernel". Both uses of the term seem to go back many years. The use of "operating system" to mean "kernel" is found in a number of textbooks on system design, going back to the 80s."

As I mentioned earlier, I understand Richard Stallman's point and that of the original poster in this thread, I just disagree. Well, that and I'm not on a crusade for free software--I do have other interests in life.