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Morot313
March 13th, 2008, 01:49 AM
Ubuntuforums use vBulletin, which is proprietary software.

Ubuntu represents freedom. I think Ubuntuforums should not use proprietary software. I think it should use a free open source forum software.

In the spirit of Ubuntu!

ntowakbh
March 13th, 2008, 01:52 AM
Ubuntuforums use vBulletin, which is proprietary software.

Ubuntu represents freedom. I think Ubuntuforums should not use proprietary software. I think it should use a free open source forum software.

In the spirit of Ubuntu!

I read this exact post word for word somewhere before....

LaRoza
March 13th, 2008, 02:06 AM
See the sticky: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=176622

DouglasAWh
March 14th, 2008, 04:57 AM
I assume though that the ubuntuforums team is keeping an eye on FOSS forum software for when something becomes mature enough for them to use, right? RIGHT????

LaRoza
March 14th, 2008, 05:17 AM
I assume though that the ubuntuforums team is keeping an eye on FOSS forum software for when something becomes mature enough for them to use, right? RIGHT????

This forum has over .5 millions members. The database is over 10 GB. The inclusion of a simple feature can cause the entire forum to do weird things.

Extensive testing must be done on all new things (except the thanks feature, which went live by accident during testing and has problems still).

Changing to another software package, even if superior in theory would be most impracticle if not impossible even with paid workers.

The cost of vBulletin is paid by Canonical, and is the best solution for the purpose. An important thing in software is to use the best that you can get. Usually, it will be FOSS, but occasionally, something non free is the best. (Opera, for one :) )

jrusso2
March 14th, 2008, 05:21 AM
This forum has over .5 millions members. The database is over 10 GB. The inclusion of a simple feature can cause the entire forum to do weird things.

Extensive testing must be done on all new things (except the thanks feature, which went live by accident during testing and has problems still).

Changing to another software package, even if superior in theory would be most impracticle if not impossible even with paid workers.

The cost of vBulletin is paid by Canonical, and is the best solution for the purpose. An important thing in software is to use the best that you can get. Usually, it will be FOSS, but occasionally, something non free is the best. (Opera, for one :) )

Too bad Ubuntu won't include any proprietary stuffs it needs on the CD to make life easier for new users.

Vadi
March 14th, 2008, 05:23 AM
That would cause quite a population of users to go ballistic.

I think Ubuntu is amazing - it manages to do so well, while retaining the sense of "freedom" very distinctively also.

LaRoza
March 14th, 2008, 05:24 AM
Too bad Ubuntu won't include any proprietary stuffs it needs on the CD to make life easier for new users.

It is possible to have non free components included in a distro, OpenSuSE for one is an excellant distro whose developers have made in that manner, but it would not be legal to infringe on licenses and Ubuntu is meant to be free is most senses of the word.

If people want non free software, that is fine, but it shouldn't be forced on them. A completely free operating system is a welcome development.

souneedalink
March 14th, 2008, 05:29 AM
An important thing in software is to use the best that you can get. Usually, it will be FOSS, but occasionally, something non free is the best. (Opera, for one :) )
I thought free was an important thing and often the best simply because it is free. How is using non-free software going to help improve free software? Maybe if ubuntu had used some of the free forum software it would be more developed by now....

slippery slope #2

LaRoza
March 14th, 2008, 05:32 AM
I thought free was an important thing and often the best simply because it is free. How is using non-free software going to help improve free software? Maybe if ubuntu had used some of the free forum software it would be more developed by now....

slippery slope #2

I don't understand. Ubuntu is free and does use free software.

Using the best tools for the job is important. The development model of free software makes for very good software, but it isn't written in stone. The virtue of being open source doesn't make software better.

Opera, this forum software, and some others programs are examples of proprietary software that is very good, and better than its competitors in at least some ways.

jrusso2
March 14th, 2008, 05:33 AM
I don't understand. Ubuntu is free and does use free software.

Using the best tools for the job is important. The development model of free software makes for very good software, but it isn't written in stone. The virtue of being open source doesn't make software better.

Opera, this forum software, and some others programs are examples of proprietary software that is very good, and better than its competitors in at least some ways.

I am just wondering how they can draw the line at non free forum software yet won't have it on the CD even if its needed to help people.

LaRoza
March 14th, 2008, 05:36 AM
I am just wondering how they can draw the line at non free forum software yet won't have it on the CD even if its needed to help people.

"they?"

UbuntuForums isn't Ubuntu...

The software is being used on two servers (I think) and is being paid for by a company.

Ubuntu is being distributed for free.

Two entirely different cases.

jrusso2
March 14th, 2008, 05:42 AM
"they?"

UbuntuForums isn't Ubuntu...

The software is being used on two servers (I think) and is being paid for by a company.

Ubuntu is being distributed for free.

Two entirely different cases.

So if I understand you the forum is not run by Cannonical and therefore it does not matter if it uses free software? But the distro must be only free software?

Is this what your saying?

LaRoza
March 14th, 2008, 05:45 AM
So if I understand you the forum is not run by Cannonical and therefore it does not matter if it uses free software? But the distro must be only free software?

Is this what your saying?

No. I am saying the forum software is being used by Canonical, not being distributed by it.

Distributing non free software is illegal, so they don't.

They probably run the servers with free software (Apache + MySQL at least, don't know the OS)

Ubuntu has been given the task of being free


The Ubuntu promise
Ubuntu will always be free of charge, including enterprise releases and security updates.
Ubuntu comes with full commercial support from Canonical and hundreds of companies around the world.
Ubuntu includes the very best translations and accessibility infrastructure that the free software community has to offer.
Ubuntu CDs contain only free software applications; we encourage you to use free and open source software, improve it and pass it on.


The makers of vBulletin have a different license.

jrusso2
March 14th, 2008, 05:52 AM
Since when is distributing non free software illegal. If this was true how do companies like Novell, Suse, Mandriva. Freespire, get aways with this illegal activity?

The truth is this is a philosophical choice made by Cannonical. Thats why its puzzling that the same company can use non free software in other places.

LaRoza
March 14th, 2008, 05:54 AM
Since when is distributing non free software illegal. If this was true how do companies like Novell, Suse, Mandriva. Freespire, get aways with this illegal activity?

They pay for it. Novell has chosen to do whatever they need to do to legally distribute the applications.

(Novell makes Suse)

souneedalink
March 14th, 2008, 06:19 AM
The virtue of being open source doesn't make software better.
The virtue of being free software does make it better since anyone is free to modify it, use it, distribute it, incorporate it into something else....so may things that make it better simply because it is free. One reason free software is not improved as fast as some users would like is because those users are using non-free and are not helping free software to improve. slippery slope...



Opera, this forum software, and some others programs are examples of proprietary software that is very good, and better than its competitors in at least some ways.
true - better at lock-in, forced upgrades, DRM, hiding flaws, etc...

LaRoza
March 14th, 2008, 01:48 PM
The virtue of being free software does make it better since anyone is free to modify it, use it, distribute it, incorporate it into something else....so may things that make it better simply because it is free. One reason free software is not improved as fast as some users would like is because those users are using non-free and are not helping free software to improve. slippery slope...

true - better at lock-in, forced upgrades, DRM, hiding flaws, etc...

The virtue of free software gives it a lot of potential. But my programs that are free are not magically better than closed source solutions.

No, the software used in this forum is not some binary they get. They get the source and they can change it for their own purposes, it is in PHP. There are no forced upgrades, DRM, or hiding of flaws.

Not every software company is unethical.

PmDematagoda
March 14th, 2008, 01:55 PM
May I also remind the OP and the other participants that this topic has been discussed many times before, there is even a sticky on this issue:-
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=176622

Please read through that before trying to make another thread on this topic or trying to go through with this current thread.

LaRoza
March 14th, 2008, 01:58 PM
May I also remind the OP and the other participants that this topic has been discussed many times before, there is even a sticky on this issue:-
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=176622

Please read through that before trying to make another thread on this topic or trying to go through with this current thread.

And that was my first post.

Perhaps this thread should be closed.

PmDematagoda
March 14th, 2008, 02:00 PM
And that was my first post.

Perhaps this thread should be closed.

Indeed it should be.

This thread has been locked.

wieman01
March 14th, 2008, 02:46 PM
Free or not free, this piece of software servers a purpose and does so well. It's the best you can get (yes, for money). What's wrong with it? Canonical is a commercial company with the objective to make money. Why shouldn't they be allowed to user a commercial software like "vBulletin"?

To me this discussion does not make much sense.

LaRoza
March 14th, 2008, 02:47 PM
To me this discussion does not make much sense.

I hope my posts made sense, as you did state my point :)