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View Full Version : Admin complaint re: "re: ¿Who would win in a fight?"



DirtDawg
March 10th, 2008, 08:23 PM
I am lodging, here, an official complaint about admin behavior. My side of the story in laborious detail:

It started when I posted some things I didn't think were crossing a line in the thread, "¿Who would win in a fight?". Specifically, I called Chuck Norris a name three times.

Shortly after doing so, LaRoza locked the entire thread. My intention was not to have this fellow member's thread locked and, in my opinion, LaRoza'a reaction was over the top. So I wrote another thread in the Forum Feedback area, "re: ¿Who would win in a fight?", complaining that someone else's thread was locked because of something I said. I posted that complaint in the wrong area because I was not aware of this official complaint area.

However, when an admin, Matthew, did address the thread, he said a few things I didn't appreciate or agree with. Then, rather than moving the thread to the appropriate forum, he also locked the thread!

Here's what I found disagreeable about Matthew's post regarding my complaint:


You posted the same statement three times, each time as a direct insult toward an individual.
Yes I did. I was insulting Chuck Norris. Not another member, or a member's mom, but Chuck-freaking-Norris. Give me a break. Would a thread be closed if someone wrote, "I think Britney Spears is dumb". I would guess not. Did I use a "naughty" word? I don't think so, but since there is no official "naughty word list" on this forum, you never know what will fly and what won't. But I'll concede the point, since it is really not the issue.


With multiple posts of this nature in the thread, it would be very difficult for the thread to recover the intended whimsical and amusing timbre with which it was started.
I would submit that the thread lost it's ability to be whimsical the second it was locked. Sure, I was being a little ornery, but it was good natured.

This actually cuts to the heart of why I take issue with this entire ordeal. I'm a little rough around the edges, so is my humor, and I understand that some people find my humor abrasive. However, since my comments were posted only minutes apart, this whole situation could have been taken care of very easily and discreetly by deleting my offending posts, then sending me a quick private message to explain why my posts were deleted. I would have thought, "oh, oops. Well I guess I won't use that word anymore" then been on my way, and the rest of the thread could have gone (or not gone, depending on the whims of the community) on its' way.

Instead, a member's thread was trashed, without warning, because of something beyond their control (me).


In short, I think LaRoza did the right thing. In fact, LaRoza was a bit more lenient than I would have been in that you did not receive an infraction point or warning.
This is the part that pushed me to write a formal complaint. First of all, whether Matthew would reprimand me or not is entirely beside the point. Give me a damn reprimand then! I'm not complaining about reprimands, I'm complaining about someone else's thread being unreasonably closed for my actions.

I mean, what is this? A threat? How am I supposed to react to this? It's like saying, "lucky it wasn't me or I would have slapped you in the face AND kicked you in the stones." Well if this is an admins idea of conflict resolution, then it leaves a lot to be desired as my initial reaction was not positive. At all.

Now I've been with this community since shortly after its conception and I've never complained. I have stepped out of bounds before, had my wrist slapped, said "sorry" and moved on. But this time, I feel like everything has been handled very poorly and trying to bring attention to poor admin behavior has resulted in more poor admin behavior.

Now, I've spent more time writing complaints about a thread I have no investment in than I've ever wanted to, and I'm essentially done. I'm not sure I have a lot of faith that my complaints will be considered, but maybe the fact I have been a community member since nearly the inception of these boards will cause somebody to pause and really look at the issues I am raising.

I have no problems with LaRoza or Matthew. They are both great community members and I understand admins are volunteers who very much have their hands full. But if I was a new member, this kind of, in my opinion, heavy-handed moderation would quickly drive me away and I am of the opinion that these issues should be addressed.

Thank you .

DirtDawg
March 10th, 2008, 08:25 PM
Forgot links.

Original post: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=720049

First complaint post: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=720146

matthew
March 10th, 2008, 10:22 PM
Since I am named specifically, I will leave the official addressing of your complaint to another member of the Forums Council. I won't quote forum policies or anything, I'll just give a couple of comments to make my side clear, and then stay out of the way.


Shortly after doing so, LaRoza locked the entire thread. My intention was not to have this fellow member's thread locked and, in my opinion, LaRoza'a reaction was over the top.Forum staff have the discretion to close a thread if they feel leaving it open would do harm. LaRoza was acting within the powers and constraints of a staff member.


However, when an admin, Matthew, did address the thread, he said a few things I didn't appreciate or agree with. Then, rather than moving the thread to the appropriate forum, he also locked the thread!Actually, the thread in question was already closed when I posted my response. I'll leave it to you and the FC to determine whether my posting in an already closed thread was better or worse than this.


Yes I did. I was insulting Chuck Norris. Not another member, or a member's mom, but Chuck-freaking-Norris.I'm certain that insulting anyone is outside the bounds of both the Forums and the Ubuntu codes of conduct.



I would submit that the thread lost it's ability to be whimsical the second it was locked.I would submit otherwise, that it was closed as a result of losing that ability, but I have said that previously, so I'm just being redundant.


This actually cuts to the heart of why I take issue with this entire ordeal. I'm a little rough around the edges, so is my humor, and I understand that some people find my humor abrasive. However, since my comments were posted only minutes apart, this whole situation could have been taken care of very easily and discreetly by deleting my offending posts, then sending me a quick private message to explain why my posts were deleted. I would have thought, "oh, oops. Well I guess I won't use that word anymore" then been on my way, and the rest of the thread could have gone (or not gone, depending on the whims of the community) on its' way.Had I seen it at any time close to when the posts were made, this is probably how I would have dealt with things. I didn't. Since none of us is omnipresent, we have guidelines for staff to follow, guidelines with some flexibility which allow individual staff members to use their best judgment. The fact that I might have dealt with this differently does not mean that it was dealt with incorrectly. Why? Because what was done was appropriately within the powers and discretion granted to staff.


Instead, a member's thread was trashed, without warning, because of something beyond their control (me).And that is sad. I will note that the starter of that thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=484505) has not complained (staff, please look).


I mean, what is this? A threat? How am I supposed to react to this? It's like saying, "lucky it wasn't me or I would have slapped you in the face AND kicked you in the stones." Well if this is an admins idea of conflict resolution, then it leaves a lot to be desired as my initial reaction was not positive. At all.My choice of phrasing was poor. What I had intended to communicate was that there were multiple ways in which the thread could have been dealt with, and the way in which things were done turned out to be in your favor. I used what I would have done in an attempt to illustrate that, not in any way to threaten or slap. Sorry that it came off that way. That was my error.


I have no problems with LaRoza or Matthew. They are both great community members and I understand admins are volunteers who very much have their hands full. But if I was a new member, this kind of, in my opinion, heavy-handed moderation would quickly drive me away and I am of the opinion that these issues should be addressed.I appreciate that. Thank you for the kind words. We have been hanging around these forums together for a long time, in fact, you predate my presence here by a few months. I hope my comments have helped you to understand, if not necessarily agree with, my perspective.

DirtDawg
March 10th, 2008, 11:52 PM
Okay, I really appreciate this response, Matthew. You are obviously taking my concerns to heart, which is my goal here (not to start fights. I don't like fights). You make some very good points and your position is more clear to me now.

Thank you and my apologies if I offended.

matthew
March 11th, 2008, 12:28 AM
DirtDawg: You are welcome, and no offense taken. This is why this section exists. I'm glad we can come to a point of understanding.

Do you still want a non-involved admin's opinion?

DirtDawg
March 11th, 2008, 12:52 AM
DirtDawg: You are welcome, and no offense taken. This is why this section exists. I'm glad we can come to a point of understanding.

Do you still want a non-involved admin's opinion?

I don't think that will be necessary. See you in the forums.

matthew
March 11th, 2008, 01:05 AM
I don't think that will be necessary. See you in the forums.Cool. See you around. :)