New MS-OS: Singularity

[Bungo Pony]

Found this interesting. MS seems to finally be considering to junk Windows.

http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2008/03/05/microsoft-apologizing-for-windows-vista-with-new-singularity-os/

Windows Vista hasn’t done much to impress the masses or compel them to shift away from Windows XP. And despite its massive marketing push for Windows Vista, Microsoft may finally be realizing that it’s time for real change. Meet Singularity, a new operating system built by Microsoft from the ground up.

In a company press release, Rick Rashid, VP of Microsoft Research says “Singularity is not the next Windows, think of it like a concept car. It is a prototype operating system designed from the ground up to test-drive a new paradigm for how operating systems and applications interact with one another. We are making it available to the community in the hope that it will enable researchers to try out new ideas quickly.”

It’s about time. “The key developers of Singularity, Galen Hunt and Jim Larus, said that all current operating systems such as Windows, Linux and MacOS can be traced back to an operating system called Multics, which has its origins in the 1960s. In effect, current operating systems are still based, in part, on thoughts and criteria from 40 years ago, Hunt claims,” according to TGDaily.

Below is a list of features in Multics, sound familiar? Windows Vista still employs many of the same concepts.

- Hierarchical file system

- Virtual memory management

- Dynamic linking: Multics needs no loader. Write a procedure, say joe, and compile: suppose the resulting binary refers to an external subroutine called fred. You can run joe by just typing its name.

- Scheduler

- Accounting & administration

- Languages

Microsoft has an obvious interest in creating the next leap in operating system technology. If it can get a head start with Singularity, its already dominant presence in the market with Windows Vista and XP could expand even further.

I take Singularity as a sign from Microsoft that it’s ready to embrace change and innovation. The scary part about that is the potential for devastating the competitive landscape.

Not coincidentally I’m sure, the name Singularity certainly has an existing reputation Microsoft is piggybacking on in mathematics and science.

[Midwest-Linux]

“Singularity is not the next Windows, think of it like a concept car. It is a prototype operating system designed from the ground up to test-drive a new paradigm for how operating systems and applications interact with one another. We are making it available to the community in the hope that it will enable researchers to try out new ideas quickly.”
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What community? The open source community? The Linux Community? Microsoft developer community?

.... What am I missing here?

[smartboyathome]

“Singularity is not the next Windows, think of it like a concept car. It is a prototype operating system designed from the ground up to test-drive a new paradigm for how operating systems and applications interact with one another. We are making it available to the community in the hope that it will enable researchers to try out new ideas quickly.”
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What community? The open source community? The Linux Community? Microsoft developer community?

.... What am I missing here?

It is available here (http://www.codeplex.com/singularity). :)

[20thCenturyBoy]

So I'm I correct to assume that this is the kind of thing they'll be realeasing as a full operating system in three years?

[K.Mandla]

Just three? :lol:

Moved to Windows Discussions.

[mozetti]

This isn't "the new Windows." It's a proof of concept for a microkernel. A playground or sandbox for developers to try out new ideas.

[CaptainCabinet]

This has me very curious. I must find out more...
It's the first I've heard of it. lol

[seanc7]

This sounds similar to the marketing hoopla that MS did prior to Windows 95. We're going to design a version of Windows that can do, this, this and this. Then everyone jumps back on their bandwagon while they continue to not deliver on the features they said they would.

[Midwest-Linux]

OK I get it, MS is going to have the community develop it and make it work and get all the bugs out of it...then MS is going to pull it. Then release it a year later as a proprietary OS for $150... lol

[justin whitaker]

OK I get it, MS is going to have the community develop it and make it work and get all the bugs out of it...then MS is going to pull it. Then release it a year later as a proprietary OS for $150... lol

That's exactly what is going to happen. They want the community to bugfix the heck out of it, then they will change the license on it.

I do not think this is a bad idea, in fact, I am applauding this effort.

Microsoft really needs to get out of their NT rut, and this is jumping in on the deep end of open source development. Who cares if they leverage the development community, so long as they get a non-buggy, secure, and compact OS for the average user out the door?

[Midwest-Linux]

That's exactly what is going to happen. They want the community to bugfix the heck out of it, then they will change the license on it.

I do not think this is a bad idea, in fact, I am applauding this effort.

Microsoft really needs to get out of their NT rut, and this is jumping in on the deep end of open source development. Who cares if they leverage the development community, so long as they get a non-buggy, secure, and compact OS for the average user out the door?

So at that very point when it is bug free and ready for prime time. if those who have downloaded the final version just before MS pulls it. Can MS stop people from using that final version? Or will that final version still be available to use and install on any computer?

[justin whitaker]

So at that very point when it is bug free and ready for prime time. if those who have downloaded the final version just before MS pulls it. Can MS stop people from using that final version? Or will that final version still be available to use and install on any computer?

If they do pull it, they will pull it before then. Probably when it gets to a beta stage.

Or, a smarter tact would be to make this a free OS which would be monetized via software as service efforts, such as Office Online.

[Midwest-Linux]

If they do pull it, they will pull it before then. Probably when it gets to a beta stage.

Or, a smarter tact would be to make this a free OS which would be monetized via software as service efforts, such as Office Online.

Or maybe they could follow the Freespire/Linspire model. Linspire costs $49 and Freespire which is free, contains 98 % of what Linspire does.

[CaptainCabinet]

I tried to find out more about singularity but just couldn't make heads or tails of it.
I wasn't going to switch to it anyway as it's Micro$oft and I hate them. :)

[SunnyRabbiera]

well even though it would be about time Microsoft made its way to making a new OS from the ground up I personally wish they would stick to their commitments.
Really for me i wish they would stick to the NT series though, there is really nothing wrong with it, its vista that gives it a bad rap.
In truth right now it would be best if Microsoft stuck with XP for a while longer, and expand it, but its so typical for them to do crap like this

[20thCenturyBoy]

I agree with the idea that Microsoft will let other develop this and then pull it for their own commericial use. Microsoft has been saying for years that this will be the Windows where they ditch NT and rewrite the code. Seems like they just aren't going to be the ones doing the writing.

So they said their new system would be released just a few years after Vista, so we can expect the new Windows (er, Microsoft OS) in a decade or two...

[Midwest-Linux]

I agree with the idea that Microsoft will let other develop this and then pull it for their own commericial use. Microsoft has been saying for years that this will be the Windows where they ditch NT and rewrite the code. Seems like they just aren't going to be the ones doing the writing.

So they said their new system would be released just a few years after Vista, so we can expect the new Windows (er, Microsoft OS) in a decade or two...

It might be sooner than that, Vista has not been a success, XP will be discontinued June of this year and Windows 7 is slated for sometime in mid to late 2009. That leaves a gap of a year with only Vista if MS sticks to their plans. Two things could happen, ...XP will continued until Windows 7 and The Singularity Project will take center stage.

Why?

Right now the trend is to open source, already Linux is winning over many governments and government agencies. The most recent example is the Philippines where 23,000 school computers will be Linux ,South America is picking up Linux, so are The French Police, The U.S. Army, City of Munich ,The Netherlands is moving to Linux, Australia is moving to Open source, San Fransisco Bay Area schools moving to Linux, South Africa moving to Linux.

And I have not even begin to mention major companies like Dell, Lenovo, Everex and major retailers Sears, Wal-Mart and others jumping on the Linux bandwagon.

MS has and is still losing customers to open source namely Linux. For every computer that goes open source, the chances are that those computers will never have a MS program or OS on it again.


Listen to this,... MS was so desperate to get the 23,000 school computers in the Philippines that they offered to slash prices on Windows XP to $20 and throwing in Office for $30 ....for each computer and yet MS was still turned down. Notice that they did not even offer Vista....

http://education.zdnet.com/?p=1498

MS sees the hand writing on the wall and they need move in some kind of direction to either compete with open source or just join the open source community in some fashion. Yes it is still is a Windows/MS World..but not forever. When and if Windows 7 gets released, even more agencies than what I mentioned will have gone open source.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Well for XP there still might be life for it, honestly Vista has been too much trouble for MS to ditch it fully... it will be suicide to trash it now, and XP's shelf life might last beyond june at this point

[mozetti]

I tried to find out more about singularity but just couldn't make heads or tails of it.
I wasn't going to switch to it anyway as it's Micro$oft and I hate them. :)

You can't switch to it. It's not a replacement OS. It's a development tool/proof of concept. I guess technically you could run it as your OS, but I don't think you'd get anything done.

And all this talk of MS "yanking it and stealing the development" -- take some time to learn about Singularity first. It would take a long time for this to even be possible because of what I said above. Second, take some time and learn about GPL2, GPL3, and other licenses -- MS couldn't "steal" code and make it their own very easily.

Hating MS isn't a requirement to use linux, you know. I guess, bottom line is, "take some time to learn."

[justin whitaker]

You can't switch to it. It's not a replacement OS. It's a development tool/proof of concept. I guess technically you could run it as your OS, but I don't think you'd get anything done.

And all this talk of MS "yanking it and stealing the development" -- take some time to learn about Singularity first. It would take a long time for this to even be possible because of what I said above. Second, take some time and learn about GPL2, GPL3, and other licenses -- MS couldn't "steal" code and make it their own very easily.

Hating MS isn't a requirement to use linux, you know. I guess, bottom line is, "take some time to learn."

It's not released under the GPL. Its released under Microsoft's own Academic and Non-Commerical License...so why are you bringing GPL into it?

For example, does the GPL include this?

That Microsoft is granted back, a non-exclusive, irrevocable, royalty-free, and sub-licensable license to, for any purpose, reproduce, publicly perform or display, install, use, modify, distribute, make and have made, sell and transfer modifications to and/or derivative works of the Software source code or data that you provide to Microsoft through the CodePlex tool or otherwise make directly available to Microsoft.

I suggest you read the EULAs before making comments.

[mozetti]

These are the pertinent parts I find:

that you provide to Microsoft through the CodePlex tool or otherwise make directly available to Microsoft.

If you develop things on your own and don't use Codeplex or provide it to MS, then I don't see how this applies.

[20thCenturyBoy]

You can't switch to it. It's not a replacement OS. It's a development tool/proof of concept. I guess technically you could run it as your OS, but I don't think you'd get anything done.

And all this talk of MS "yanking it and stealing the development" -- take some time to learn about Singularity first. It would take a long time for this to even be possible because of what I said above. Second, take some time and learn about GPL2, GPL3, and other licenses -- MS couldn't "steal" code and make it their own very easily.

Hating MS isn't a requirement to use linux, you know. I guess, bottom line is, "take some time to learn."

How does this have anything to do with any of the GPLs?

And don't just assume that someone hates Microsoft because they're joking about their new "breakthrough".

[jjzeidner]

I recently wrote this article on the Singluarity license.

http://www.joshuazeidner.com/2008/03/discerning-look-at-microsoft.html
(http://www.joshuazeidner.com/2008/03/discerning-look-at-microsoft.html)