Utopian Soceity Possible?

[KingBahamut]

The Singularity is Near" -- a new book by futurist, Ray Kurzweil. By "Singularity", Kurzweil refers not to a collapsed supernova, but instead to an extraordinarily bright future in which technological progress has leapt by such exponentially large bounds that it will be... well, for lack of a better word: 'utopian'. "Mr. Kurzweil... thinking exponentially, imagines a plausible future, not so far away, with extended life-spans (living to 300 will not be unusual), vastly more powerful computers (imagine more computing power in a head-sized device than exists in all the human brains alive today), other miraculous machines (nanotechnology assemblers that can make most anything out of sunlight and dirt) and, thanks to these technologies, enormous increases in wealth (the average person will be capable of feats, like traveling in space, only available to nation-states today)." On one hand its fantastically (even ridiculously) optimistic, but on the other hand, I sure as hell hope he's right.

External Link
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB112811088248757062.html?mod=todays_free_feature

While many of Kurzweil's assessments seem too far gone to even think possible. Many of his other assessment are very close to true -- Either in htie beginning stages of reality (nanotech for instance) or conceptual thought (interplanetary travel and exploration). We are only in the beginning phases of what might be the start to such a thing. I will most certainly recommend this read to anyone , after I read it of course, but still....the implications of his thoughts....are mind boggling.

[darkmatter]

Sounds like an amazing vision of the future, but I would hardly call it utopian.

Unless, of course, it is free from:

1> Poverty
2> Racism
3> Crime
4> Injustice

et al.

[Knome_fan]

Machinery must work for us in coal mines, and do all sanitary services, and be the stoker of steamers, and clean the streets, and run messages on wet days, and do anything that is tedious or distressing. At present machinery competes against man. Under proper conditions machinery will serve man. There is no doubt at all that this is the future of machinery, and just as trees grow while the country gentleman is asleep, so while Humanity will be amusing itself, or enjoying cultivated leisure - which, and not labour, is the aim of man - or making beautiful things, or reading beautiful things, or simply contemplating the world with admiration and delight, machinery will be doing all the necessary and unpleasant work. The fact is, that civilisation requires slaves. The Greeks were quite right there. Unless there are slaves to do the ugly, horrible, uninteresting work, culture and contemplation become almost impossible. Human slavery is wrong, insecure, and demoralising. On mechanical slavery, on the slavery of the machine, the future of the world depends. And when scientific men are no longer called upon to go down to a depressing East End and distribute bad cocoa and worse blankets to starving people, they will have delightful leisure in which to devise wonderful and marvellous things for their own joy and the joy of everyone else. There will be great storages of force for every city, and for every house if required, and this force man will convert into heat, light, or motion, according to his needs.
http://wilde.thefreelibrary.com/Soul-of-Man-under-Socialism
That is to say, I'm sceptical.

[Brunellus]

There is nothing new under the sun.

It was thought at around the turn of the 20th century that the age of perpetual peace was imminent. After all, thought many reasonable people, hadn't science brought untold progress to people everywhere? Weren't the bonds of commerce and communication now so thick that no trifling dispute could bring about a retrogression?

Nobody was counting on the outbreak of hostilities in 1914--especially after such a small begining, with some pipsqueak killing an Austrian prince in a little-regarded corner of Europe.

Likewise, in 1946, the world was ready to begin again. Potentially limitless energy from oil and atom were supposed to liberate mankind. Politics itself seemed to have vanished, replaced by a desire to manage a carefully-controlled universe.

That consensus was more or less dead by the time the oil shocks of the later 1970s came around.

The tools change, but whether the tools are quartz axes or quantum computers, we are still human beings, and capable of the worst sort of inhumanity to each other.

[Kvark]

The tools change, but whether the tools are quartz axes or quantum computers, we are still human beings, and capable of the worst sort of inhumanity to each other.
Exactly, as long as a society contains humans it will never become utopian.

[BWF89]

The only way to create a utopian society would be to:

-Have one country to invade the entire of the world and than erace their culture in place of their own. Which would mean there would be one religion, one language, one currency, one set of laws, etc.

-This country would have to have the technology and the resources to make everyone believe that the new society is better than their old one. Possibly through mass brainwashing or fetal manipulation such as in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World.

-To maintain the utopian society anyone who disagreed with the way things were would be either killed or forced to live on a reservation for the rest of their lives as not to contaminate society.

-And the final question: Is a utopian sociey really utopian if everyone is coerced into not questioning their culture?

In short this is never going to happen.

[KingBahamut]

To quote the 'Pedia

Thomas More depicts a rationally organised society, through the narration of an explorer who discovers it - Raphael Hythlodaeus.

Utopia is based on The Republic where all property is held in common. Furthermore it is a perfect version of The Republic where the beauties of society, eg equalism and no war, all exist and the evils of society, eg poverty and misery, are all extinct. It has few laws, no lawyers and rarely sends its citizens to war, but hires mercenaries from among its war-prone neighbours.

It is likely that Thomas More, a religious layman who once considered joining the Church as a priest, was inspired by monastical life when he described the workings of his society. Thomas More lived during the age when the Renaissance was beginning to assert itself in England, and the old medieval ideals – including the monastic ideal – were declining. Some of Thomas More's ideas reflect a nostalgia for that medieval past. It was an inspiration for the Reducciones established by the Jesuits to Christianize and "civilize" the Guaranis.

[Brunellus]

I should note that Kant's famous "Perpetual Peace" essay was prompted by the name of a pub he passed while travelling--which showed a tombstone.

[poofyhairguy]

sounds like Star Trek TNG.

[mstlyevil]

Those that truly believe that they could one day live in Utopia, live in a fantasy land. Human nature will never allow for a Utopia to exist. I believe that each person sould just live their life to the fullest and not entangle themselves in fantasy.

[Stormy Eyes]

One man's road to utopia is another man's highway to hell. Never trust anybody who claims that he knows the way to the perfection of mankind; he's out to rule you, and will kill you if he cannot enslave you.

[NeoSNightmarE]

Some interesting reading. I had to do a report on the conceptual idea of utopias and perfect civilizations when I was taking sociology. Basically how it turns out in the end is that there will never be an Utopia because of the fact that it woud boil down to an individual class of people and there will never be agreement across the board. Hence holding up progress that could've possibly be made. Shame really. I would love to live to be 300.

[Brunellus]

Some interesting reading. I had to do a report on the conceptual idea of utopias and perfect civilizations when I was taking sociology. Basically how it turns out in the end is that there will never be an Utopia because of the fact that it woud boil down to an individual class of people and there will never be agreement across the board. Hence holding up progress that could've possibly be made. Shame really. I would love to live to be 300.
I'm not sure if I'd really love to live to be 300. Filling the days might become tedious. there are only so many trolls to feed on the internet, after all.

[occy8]

The only way to create a utopian society would be to:

-Have one country to invade the entire of the world and than erace their culture in place of their own. Which would mean there would be one religion, one language, one currency, one set of laws, etc.

-This country would have to have the technology and the resources to make everyone believe that the new society is better than their old one. Possibly through mass brainwashing or fetal manipulation such as in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World.

-To maintain the utopian society anyone who disagreed with the way things were would be either killed or forced to live on a reservation for the rest of their lives as not to contaminate society.

-And the final question: Is a utopian sociey really utopian if everyone is coerced into not questioning their culture?

In short this is never going to happen.

there is another science fiction by David Wingrove 'Chung Kuo' which I enjoyed very much reading. Similar to what you suggest but it didn't work either. The problem are those humans, their way of life and their quantity.
As an Alien I say there is only so much water energy and other resources on a planet, if you can't raid another one nearby you better learn to live with what you have and share

[papangul]

"With great power come great responsibilities" - the question is not about Utopian Society, rather the question is whether utopian human beings are possible are not. If human beings don't show some godly qualities, we will self-destruct long before reaching the Utopian society.

[alred]

QUOTE :: "Utopian Soceity Possible?"


or rather are Utopian ideas necessary and warrant the merits to contemplate and improve and work upon , will there be An End to human progressiveness towards a more humane and practical living localities and a larger enviroment for mankind and their earth , individualy or pragmatically collectively , free from unwanted and unnecessary self-defeating internal or external "interventions" , be it political , economical or enviromental(in the context of those Green Enviromentalists) ...

in my opinion , if there are any contemplatation or strivings for an utopian human society in a thoughtfull manners , it would be along the line of those ideas of Anarchism , but somehow i can guess that great leaders and thinkers from lenin to gandhi they could grasped the eternity of one of the basic human problems , namely , what has to be done and what could only been done with the consideration of the limitness of humans at any given social stages , there wont be an end to human thoughts ...


are they or rather are we optimistic or pessimistic in human cilvilisation ??



my opinion ...



.