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k2t0f12d
February 24th, 2008, 01:22 AM
Please consider the following thread in which LaRoza assigned an infraction to my post for reasons that cannot be demonstrated:

Original Post:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4387691

Statements in question:


Since the content of my last post appears to be beyond the range of your expertise, let's stick to the points quoted above.


Uncalled for. Simply because you make your responses verbose does not proportionally increase the amount of value in what you had to say. In the post to which I was replying, you wrote a lot of words to arrive at just one meaningful thought, as far as I could decipher. I am not fluent in pedantic.

LaRoza's explanation of the infraction to me:


popch's posts show he has mastered the English language to a high degree. If his words seem verbose to you, or pendantic, then I think you are not reading them correctly.

This explanation makes no sense at all since one can neither be verbose nor pedantic in any language without adequate skill and mastery. There is also the glaring lack of any criticism of his understanding of the language in my post. I submit pedantry and lack of skill are mutually exclusive states. My criticism of verbosity and pedantry have nothing whatsoever to do with popch's grasp of any language, and was confined solely to the relevence of was being discussed.


popch has show great thoughtfulness and great fluency in a language that he doesn't speak natively, there is no need to insult his posts because it may not be clear to you his intent.

popch had shown great thoughtlessness in accusing me of not being "experienced" enough to understand his posts, without giving any clarification. The fact that popch is not a native speaker of the enlgish language appears nowhere in any of my criticism of his posts. I never insulted popch, and in fact claim that I found that he had stated one meaningful point in his posting. My criticism lie totally in sarcastically refuting popch's claim that I am not experienced enough to understand what he was saying.

Please remove the infraction.

matthew
February 24th, 2008, 01:45 AM
I can't imagine a scenario in which calling someone's actions or writing pedantic would serve to do anything other than make them feel insulted. This is especially true when done by someone without the credentials to make that assertion from a professional standpoint, as when done by a publishing editor or a book critic. Even then, there are very few times in which using this descriptor will give rise to anything but bad feelings.

The infraction stands.

I have also been reviewing your overall posting style and attitude, and I'm not particularly impressed. You come across as consistently pedantic*, demeaning, self-righteous and rude. May I politely suggest that you attempt to moderate your tone a bit? You have a lot of knowledge to offer, but without some basic cultural etiquette, your attempts at assistance are not as helpful as they could be, and your strong opinions are less able to be heard because of the manner of their expression. If that can't be done, you will find yourself on the receiving end of more infraction points, and will ultimately find yourself escorted out of the forums. I would not like that to happen.

*Yeah, I just used it. I'm qualified as an editor. It still feels insulting, doesn't it?

matthew
February 24th, 2008, 01:49 AM
I should add that I intentionally ignored your specific argument against the infraction. Why? Because it focused on a side issue. I would have phrased the infraction differently than LaRoza, and would have given it a better description, but that does not make your post less of a violation of the Forums Code of Conduct.

k2t0f12d
February 24th, 2008, 01:59 AM
*Yeah, I just used it. I'm qualified as an editor. It still feels insulting, doesn't it?

Most of the serious points I have made are meant to be pedantic. So your point to me is not the least bit insulting. I want to cover as much ground as possible in the subject I am discussing. Pedantry in and of itself is not an insult.

Secondly, you claim that my post is insulting based on completely different reasons then the original infraction. LaRoza gave me an infraction for an imaginary insult to popch's grasp of english, which I had not done at all. If you think verbosity and pedantry are insulting all by themselves, then you should apply that infraction as well. At the very least, both yourself and LaRoza should demonstrate the reasons over which infractions are being given. Both you and he have come up with completely different stories about my posts.

k2t0f12d
February 24th, 2008, 02:02 AM
I should add that I intentionally ignored your specific argument against the infraction.

Yes you should have. This is another demonstration of the lack of thoroughness from you and he. You have also completely igonored popch's less then respectful comment to me.

KiwiNZ
February 24th, 2008, 03:45 AM
I also have looked that this and agree with the infraction and Matthews coments above.

There is an over all trend on internet forums that it is acceptable to be rude and ignore common courtesay. Well not on Ubuntu forums . We will not accept it and will always act to stop it.

I suggest you review your posting style.

k2t0f12d
February 24th, 2008, 04:18 AM
There is an over all trend on internet forums that it is acceptable to be rude and ignore common courtesay. Well not on Ubuntu forums . We will not accept it and will always act to stop it.

I'm sorry. Except for the matter between myself and p_quarles which was resolved fairly, that does not effectively describe the behavior of moderators that I have seen. No one here has been clear about the manner in which my post was insulting, and ignored popch's post to me entirely. Matthew's brilliant display of moderation was to try to insult me in exactly the way I was saying doesn't seem very insulting to me at all, and that somehow the definition of the word pedatic has a de facto insult contained within. With the reporting and infraction system as it stands, the correct description of behavior is that moderators will not accept and will act to stop whatever is reported regardless of what was actually said or actually happened, and totally ignore anything else entirelty.

I withdraw my request.

KiwiNZ
February 24th, 2008, 05:51 AM
The word , pedantic , in solitude is not nesessarily insulting. The context in which it is used , can be.

To say the staff does not act on reported posts is just plain wrong. The staff most definately act on reported post.

k2t0f12d
February 24th, 2008, 06:52 AM
To say the staff does not act on reported posts is just plain wrong. The staff most definately act on reported post.

You are mistaken, that is not what I said.


With the reporting and infraction system as it stands, the correct description of behavior is that moderators will not accept and will act to stop whatever is reported regardless of what was actually said or actually happened, and totally ignore anything else entirelty.

That doesn't mean I don't think you are doing your jobs, just that you aren't doing them well. Anyone can report a post. In that thread there are dozens of times I could have reported others. Nearly every page in that thread there is an example where I have choosen to recapitulate what I have said because someone else made up something I never said and then attacked me with it. But I'd rather be patient and just repeat what I mean where its needed.

popch posted very mature and organized observations about the relationships between porting Photoshop or devving a native program. I even complimented him on how well it was done, and then explained why I thought only a couple things he said were meaningful. In his rebuttal, instead of demnstrating how he disagreed with me, his solution was to say that I wasn't experienced enough to read him properly. I didn't use obscinity, I certainly didn't claim he had any lack in the command of the language, and I didn't disrespect his intellect. I forfeited reporting popch's remark (indeed reporting it never even occurred to me) and made a sarcastic remark in defense of his disrespect of my own intellect. If I were to have said that his post was brain damaged, for example, that would have been an insult. For something so trivial as that, I can only surmise that some of the mods here are just around to punch the infraction button the instant a report is raised without any due course considerations at all.

KiwiNZ
February 24th, 2008, 07:30 AM
I do not accept your assertions regarding the staff. The moderators do a very good job . This is a large and busy forum.

I will concede that some are new to the role, but that does not make them bad , they are doing very good job for such a short time in the role.

I will concede that yes we are human, and yes we are fallible.

I will remind you that they are volunteers and give of their free time to make this Forum a better place for ... You