Since Kubuntu 8.04 will not be LTS...

[Odd-rationale]

I suppose the news have already gotten around that Kubuntu 8.04 will not be a LTS release.

Well, that doesn't really bother me, as long as I get KDE 4! Besides, I plan to install 8.10 the day it comes out.

Since Kubuntu will not be LTS like Ubuntu, I propose that we give it a different code name. We could name it the much envied "Hungry Hippo" release. That way we can distinguish it from the LTS Hardy Heron.

What do you all think? I always wanted a Hungry Hippo release...

[Vadi]

I don't think there will be a different name.

And, uh, anyone who'll need to know what an LTS is will probably be able to tell the fact that Kubuntu isn't one easily.

[~LoKe]

Since Kubuntu will not be LTS like Ubuntu, I propose that we give it a different code name. We could name it the much envied "Hungry Hippo" release. That way we can distinguish it from the LTS Hardy Heron.

What do you all think? I always wanted a Hungry Hippo release...

How about we make "Kubuntu" the codename for the non-LTS release?

[deepclutch]

when will Ubuntu concentrate on Ubuntu itself?the community is divided in building all these kaboomntu,xubntu etc.concentrate these efforts on Ubuntu to be more better.install ur favourite DE later in Ubuntu,whats the big deal?

well,for a Gnome user like me,kde distros dont even care to carry GNOME unless some Gnome user comes up with a forked distro.eg: Pclinuxos,slackware.intolerable kde distro and users :rolleyes:

let Ubuntu remain a single Ubuntu!stop these all *buntu's :x

[Lostincyberspace]

when will Ubuntu concentrate on Ubuntu itself?the community is divided in building all these kaboomntu,xubntu etc.concentrate these efforts on Ubuntu to be more better.install ur favourite DE later in Ubuntu,whats the big deal?

well,for a Gnome user like me,kde distros dont even care to carry GNOME unless some Gnome user comes up with a forked distro.eg: Pclinuxos,slackware.intolerable kde distro and users :rolleyes:

let Ubuntu remain a single Ubuntu!stop these all *buntu's :x
No!

This is what Linux is based around the developers develop what they want and the best sift out over time because they are supported by the users by donations and such and don't get fed up with the people.

[Vadi]

Yeah, sort of. You should see the KDE people complaining about Canonicals "lack of attention" to Kubuntu.

So, uh, it's not all go-happy people that work off donations.

[Lostincyberspace]

Who ever said they were happy? I see happy nowhere in this thread until you said it.

[Vadi]

"This is what Linux is based around the developers develop what they want and the best sift out over time because they are supported by the users by donations and such and don't get fed up with the people."

Why did you leave out the commercial sponsorship then, which is where the issue lies?

[justin whitaker]

How about we make "Kubuntu" the codename for the non-LTS release?

That's mean....true, but still mean. :)

[SZF2001]

Wow, this thread isn't even really constructive. In just a few short posts the topic went from bad to worse.

I say let the Kubuntu developers name it whatever the hell they want. I mean, they developed it after all - who else's right is it to say what the name should be? Did they ask you for input? Are you working with them, testing bugs, and anything else of the sort?

[igknighted]

when will Ubuntu concentrate on Ubuntu itself?the community is divided in building all these kaboomntu,xubntu etc.concentrate these efforts on Ubuntu to be more better.install ur favourite DE later in Ubuntu,whats the big deal?

well,for a Gnome user like me,kde distros dont even care to carry GNOME unless some Gnome user comes up with a forked distro.eg: Pclinuxos,slackware.intolerable kde distro and users :rolleyes:

let Ubuntu remain a single Ubuntu!stop these all *buntu's :x

Umm...

PCLOS (developing a gnome version), Slack and Mepis are tiny projects relative to Ubuntu and the other mainstream distros. They barely have the manpower to push out their lone KDE version... slack is developed by one man (others do generate packages, of course). Sidux of course is at the mercy of Debian, which doesn't even have Gnome in testing (at least in a stable enough form to be usable).

Look at the _major_ kde distributions of OpenSuse and Mandriva, and both offer excellent Gnome options as well as their primary KDE release. They don't try to separate it off as a different distro either, its still Mandriva 2008 or OpenSuse 10.3. If anything, the Gnome distro's are less friendly to KDE, with a very second rate Kubuntu and and Fedora's KDE offering falling well short of their Gnome version as well.

One other thought (back on topic)... how are they going to differentiate between the LTS and non-LTS... will KDE stop getting security updates after 18months? I mean, both versions use the same repo's. They really are just different installers to the same distribution. How is a user to know which packages will be supported and which will not?

[justin whitaker]

PCLOS (developing a gnome version),

The GNOME version is community driven. From what I understand, Texstar is not backing it, other than providing moral support.

Slack and Mepis are tiny projects relative to Ubuntu and the other mainstream distros. They barely have the manpower to push out their lone KDE version... slack is developed by one man (others do generate packages, of course).

That's true about Mepis...I'm not so sure about Slackware. Unlike Warren at Mepis, Patrick Volkerding works on Slackware full time, and let's face it...Slackware doesn't really change all that much. It's mainly keeping it current.

That's not as hard as what Warren keeps doing, bouncing from codebase to codebase and working his day job.

Look at the _major_ kde distributions of OpenSuse and Mandriva, and both offer excellent Gnome options as well as their primary KDE release. They don't try to separate it off as a different distro either, its still Mandriva 2008 or OpenSuse 10.3.

That's because they are Metadistributions, and as such, try to provide branded and integrated versions of all DEs/WMs to their distribution. They are about providing a basic platform for the end user to select what they want to do with it.

If anything, the Gnome distro's are less friendly to KDE, with a very second rate Kubuntu and and Fedora's KDE offering falling well short of their Gnome version as well.

True, but that is because they are DE centric distributions. Actually, Fedora's KDE is not as bad as it used to be....they are making a concerted push to include KDE 4.0 in the next iteration.

Kubuntu is something of a problem child. I think they should have gone KDE+synaptic on top of Ubuntu and called it a day. Most of the other stuff going on with Kubuntu just seems misguided to me...what is the point of Adept exactly?

I still am going to use it, because I like KDE and want to support the effort, but I think they are going about it the wrong way.

One other thought (back on topic)... how are they going to differentiate between the LTS and non-LTS... will KDE stop getting security updates after 18months? I mean, both versions use the same repo's. They really are just different installers to the same distribution. How is a user to know which packages will be supported and which will not?

I think the idea is that once KDE 4 goes into the 4.1 range, the older 3.5 series gets rolled out of the repository. Once Plasma, Phonon, and all the other components are complete, and developers finish porting their apps over, there is no point in keeping the old code base.

[deepclutch]

Well,I m on Debian Sid for past 1.5 yrs and Debian got latest Gnome-2.20-3!Yes,u need Sid.

anyways,kde means any project will go that way doesnot cater all.

I really feels all these Kubttu stuff should be merged to real One Ubuntu :)
still,get ur kde thing apt-get installed.

[p_quarles]

Moved to Recurring Discussions.

[Tom Mann]

We should call it the hard-up heron. :D

[Odd-rationale]

Wow! I didn't mean for this thread to turn into a debate. I was simply suggesting the crazy idea that perhaps the kubuntu code name could be changed to reflect the that it is not a LTS like other Canonical supported ditros.

In any case, I think Linux users should have the choice of any DE they want (if any) and on any Linux-based system they want (Ubuntu, Fedora, etc).

I've tried gnome, kde, and xfce. I even tried just having a wm like fluxbox and icewm. I really like it how Ubuntu makes it easy for me to define my own computing. This is the beauty of Linux.

But in the end, it really doesn't matter which DE/WM you use. Because after a while, they all begin to feel the same...

[samwyse]

We should call it the hard-up heron. :D

How about Hardly Heron.

[ryanVickers]

Well, that doesn't really bother me, as long as I get KDE 4!

Unless they have fixed it by then, I would not recommend it. I am currently running it on 7.10 and it's thousands of cool new features unfortunately do not outweigh it's thousands of new bugs ;)

[Odd-rationale]

Unless they have fixed it by then, I would not recommend it. I am currently running it on 7.10 and it's thousands of cool new features unfortunately do not outweigh it's thousands of new bugs ;)
True.

I'm stilling using kde 3. (Linus, a kde user himself, hasn't migrated over to kde 4 either.) I tried 4.0 but it is still buggy.

[samwyse]

True, but that is because they are DE centric distributions. Actually, Fedora's KDE is not as bad as it used to be....they are making a concerted push to include KDE 4.0 in the next iteration.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to ditch KDE3 by that time. I thought Fedora was doing fine until I read about the decision for Fedora 9.

[jaytek13]

I'm actually very happy that the release of KDE4 has forced the Kubuntu to kind of go in a different direction. Hopefully they adopt this DE and make it their own. I believe up to this point Kubuntu has been playing catch-up with Ubuntu in all respects rather than concentrating on making the general desktop KDE experience better for the Kubuntu user.

[deepclutch]

^that's what I am saying.merge all "official" forks of Ubuntu and make the Ubuntu Distro more perfect.
and,
I know that Kde boys needs a kde distro.well,any of the willing community members can form a unofficial kde boys distro and maintain it.when they feels like they cant maintain,ask the users to upgrade to simply mepis(best debian kde distro).

what is the use of kubuntu or xubuntu rather than confusing n00b linux users?seriously,Ubuntu needs more work on default Gnome Desktop.let the devels do their work on Ubuntu-the One distro.
I hope M.Shuttleworth will take this a point :)

[jaytek13]

^that's what I am saying.merge all "official" forks of Ubuntu and make the Ubuntu Distro more perfect.
and,
I know that Kde boys needs a kde distro.well,any of the willing community members can form a unofficial kde boys distro and maintain it.when they feels like they cant maintain,ask the users to upgrade to simply mepis(best debian kde distro).

what is the use of kubuntu or xubuntu rather than confusing n00b linux users?seriously,Ubuntu needs more work on default Gnome Desktop.let the devels do their work on Ubuntu-the One distro.
I hope M.Shuttleworth will take this a point :)


I'd be willing to support this action if they ditched Gnome and concentrated on KDE instead. Otherwise if they did this, I'm sure a lot of people as myself would be running to opensuse.

[Vadi]

I don't see a reason as to why were they "wrong" on choosing gnome.

I'm pretty sure they knew what they are doing, given Ubuntu's success.

[maniacmusician]

I don't see a reason as to why were they "wrong" on choosing gnome.

I'm pretty sure they knew what they are doing, given Ubuntu's success.
Of course they weren't in the wrong. They could have chosen either Gnome and KDE and still experienced success; their key was the innovation they showed and how easy they made it for their users. I believe they picked Gnome because Mark preferred it? That was my understanding, anyways.

That being said, I do wish that they would push KDE more as well. I use both Gnome and KDE, and I'd like my Kubuntu experience to be as complete as my Ubuntu experience with the same amount of effort.

[ryanVickers]

I prefer GNOME over KDE the same way as I prefer Linux over windows, and that's a LOT. I believe it is very friendly, looks good, has a nice solid feel, and it's easy for new users to learn. Furthermore, the Kubuntu live CD is crap because it leaves out things like Firefox!!! OMG :p

I think if you want KDE should should at least still get Ubuntu and and on KDE later... hm, what was I talking about again... :confused: lol

[Vadi]

Of course they weren't in the wrong. They could have chosen either Gnome and KDE and still experienced success; their key was the innovation they showed and how easy they made it for their users. I believe they picked Gnome because Mark preferred it? That was my understanding, anyways.

That being said, I do wish that they would push KDE more as well. I use both Gnome and KDE, and I'd like my Kubuntu experience to be as complete as my Ubuntu experience with the same amount of effort.

Everybody has their reason ofr Ubuntu's success. My story is that it used Gnome - because believe me, if I was given Kubuntu first, I'd still would have been on Windows. That said though, I only dislike KDE as the desktop enviroment - I love the apps though, and use a mix of both.

But as a desktop enviroment, no. I'm glad they brought in some artists and creative people for KDE 4, but it's not quite there.

[ryanVickers]

Everybody has their reason ofr Ubuntu's success. My story is that it used Gnome - because believe me, if I was given Kubuntu first, I'd still would have been on Windows. That said though, I only dislike KDE as the desktop enviroment - I love the apps though, and use a mix of both.

But as a desktop enviroment, no. I'm glad they brought in some artists and creative people for KDE 4, but it's not quite there.

The reason I was able to witch to Linux because of it was how much they've improved it over, say, ol' Redhat 6, particularly in the field of ease of adding software. It's as simple as checking items off a list! and If you do happen to get a third-party deb package, just put it in, using dpkg --install --force-architecture if need be.

I remember trying to install things before this whole concept of "RPM's" and "deb's" became wildly used, r used at all for that matter. You had to hunt down all your dependencies, compile them from source, get everything installed manually if it didn't even come with a script for that, etc... :mad:

[mdsmedia]

As a Linux beginner (read noob with probably less ability) this interests me.

I installed Ubuntu about 2 years ago and it quickly became my main OS. I still dual-boot XP because I have to, but I detest booting into Windows when I have to.

I've also been a Gnome user all that time, and got used to Gnome. I installed the KDE desktop at one stage and didn't like it. I was used to Gnome. It was simple and easy to navigate. Everything just worked the way I expected (or at times didn't expect) it to.

Recent political developments have made me think of changing to KDE. It's simple in Ubuntu...just install the KDE desktop and use KDE instead of Gnome.

I don't mind that it's not LTS. I'm still using Dapper because I haven't got around to upgrading. My desktop is still going through the process of upgrading to Gutsy.

I'd be interested to know what the non-LTS factor means to Kubuntu. Is Kubuntu still going to be "as up to date" as the Gnome environment? If I choose KDE will I be disadvantaged? I really don't care if it's KDE 4 if that isn't ready yet.

[qazwsx]

I prefer GNOME over KDE the same way Furthermore, the Kubuntu live CD is crap because it leaves out things like Firefox!!! OMG :p

That is the main reason I like Kubuntu - real KDE distro (unlike PCLinuxOS which is badly missing some KDE components as default).

[deepclutch]

I'd be willing to support this action if they ditched Gnome and concentrated on KDE instead. Otherwise if they did this, I'm sure a lot of people as myself would be running to opensuse.
NO way!:mad: kde mongers got so many distros exclusively bundling kde like slackware,pclinuxos,sidux ....uncountable no.s why do u kde boys adement on crapping ubuntu?

I 'd say,if u want kde by default,better get simply mepis-it is a debian distro.

..and I can understand that kde boys are always on the forefront when bashing something Gnome.especially I remember the now dead(RIP) tuxmagazine! :x

I likes Gnome Ubuntu -Ubuntu is Gnome and Gnome is Ubuntu:popcorn:
kde boys-get urself a good debian experiance with mepis or sidux.dont crap this sane Gnome distro called Ubuntu.
by starting kuboomto,Mark & Co did a big thing wrong.
they should concentrate on Gnome Ubuntu more rather than maintaining kde fanboy distro :rolleyes:

let kde fanboys make and run a kde distro based on ubuntu,the way dropline Gnome and many other Gnome addon available for slackware after pat volkding (kde fanatic) removed Gnome :x!what say?

I personally puke on kde!it remembers me windows!
the messy menus!OMG!
get this crap out of my Ubuntu! please @M.Shuttleworth :)

[qazwsx]

NO way!:mad: kde mongers got so many distros exclusively bundling kde like slackware,pclinuxos,sidux ....uncountable no.s why do u kde boys adement on crapping ubuntu?

Those distros have much smaller developerbase and userbase.
For example whole sidux depends on Debian sid. They can't provide / have resources to produce stable GNOME for average user ( more experienced users can handle it tough) because of sid developers tends to keep GNOME side unstable.

*buntu is much more mainstream. 2 year LTS cycle is too short (just compare it to XP over 6 years). They should have waited bit more.

[deepclutch]

well,I cooled down ;) I am gonna test some kde distro tonight(here in India). :-|

[djbsteart1]

when will Ubuntu concentrate on Ubuntu itself?the community is divided in building all these kaboomntu,xubntu etc.concentrate these efforts on Ubuntu to be more better.install ur favourite DE later in Ubuntu,whats the big deal?

well,for a Gnome user like me,kde distros dont even care to carry GNOME unless some Gnome user comes up with a forked distro.eg: Pclinuxos,slackware.intolerable kde distro and users :rolleyes:

let Ubuntu remain a single Ubuntu!stop these all *buntu's :x

I don't see Ubuntu providing KDE or XFCE, they do that with different distro's. Either way, gnome, KDE or XFCE are only ever a few clicks away

[ch_123]

NO way!:mad: kde mongers got so many distros exclusively bundling kde like slackware,pclinuxos,sidux ....uncountable no.s why do u kde boys adement on crapping ubuntu?

...

I personally puke on kde!it remembers me windows!
the messy menus!OMG!
get this crap out of my Ubuntu! please @M.Shuttleworth :)

And GNOME reminds me of Mac OS/X... Whats your point? Its hardly good enough reason to kill off Kubuntu, on the contrary, having something that works similarly to Windows can only be a good thing for Ubuntu to help people move over. You talk about all the distros that use KDE... Did it ever occur to you that's because there is a large demand for KDE?

[deepclutch]

the adamant behaviour of kde fellows are seen.
they dont want the existance of Gnome :( what to say?
Can I go and RANT Gnome Rocks! on slackware forum or pclinuxos forum?
NO!
remember Gnome users too got patience :-|
imo,kde users are those who still want to go back to window$.
and Gnome never looks like OS X for me.OS X is another standard !

[djbsteart1]

the adamant behaviour of kde fellows are seen.
they dont want the existance of Gnome :( what to say?
Can I go and RANT Gnome Rocks! on slackware forum or pclinuxos forum?
NO!
remember Gnome users too got patience :-|
imo,kde users are those who still want to go back to window$.
and Gnome never looks like OS X for me.OS X is another standard !

Why do you think that KDE users want to go back to windows? Yes I will admit that on the first face of things KDE is more similar to windows that gnome, but after that nothing else is.
That is the only reason I can think of, I havn't read anyone raving on that Gnome shouldn't exist. I think its excellent that there are so many excellent DE's to choose from, I just happen to use KDE as that was with kubuntu when I first installed it, since then I have just stuck with it, as that is what I know.

So please don't say that KDE users want to go back to windows, because it just isn't true.

[ch_123]

the adamant behaviour of kde fellows are seen.
they dont want the existance of Gnome :( what to say?
Can I go and RANT Gnome Rocks! on slackware forum or pclinuxos forum?
NO!


For someone who complains so much about KDE fanboys, you come across as a GNOME fanboy, which makes alot of what you say look hypocritical. I don't think anyone wanted GNOME to be removed, just for Kubuntu to be continued. Yet you want KDE to be killed off because you like GNOME, wtf?!

OS X is another standard !
And Windows isnt?

[deepclutch]

well,I never said Kde to be killed !My stand is let Ubuntu be a pakka(full) Gnome Distro!let kde etc be an option!
before tagging me as a Gnome fanboy(I'd rather like it!),let u confirm that I also use Archlinux with kdemod-3.5.9 :lol:!OK?shocked :D ?
My only whining is that DONT let Ubuntu split on the basis of Desktop Environments!I mean say NO to kubuntu,xubuntu etc.

yet kde boys can make a custom spin of their kind they like and maintain it.an example is kdemod in archlinux
I am not at all concerned about small wm's and xfce.
it is,the fight between Gnome and kde which is lethal.
kde distros are a pleanty.while one can find few Gnome distros which are up2date with latest Gnome.that one is ubuntu(may be fedora too!)

imo,a lot of developer powers are spend on kubunti! ,but I hoped these people can concentrate on One and Only Original Ubuntu and make it even better!just now we have brainstorm launched.how do the devels take care of all these ideas?already they are burdened with kubuntu thing especially.

I feel,after a vanila Ubuntu installation,kde boys can "apt-get install kde" that's better :)
I'd be willing to support this action if they ditched Gnome and concentrated on KDE instead. Otherwise if they did this, I'm sure a lot of people as myself would be running to opensuse.
this can be the real flamebait!that I remembered yesterdays interaction in IRC!:
u can copy my words to bash.org if u want: :D
>yesterday I visited kde IRC
>they are all sleeping and I asked a question concerning kde terminal called konsole :D
>they are all exited.and the question was "why "less" command mouse scrolling is not possible in konsole while through vim and nano ,we can scroll"
>the first comment was this:gnome-terminal :Puke: it sucks
>2nd comment was this: oh well! Gnome scuks!
>I felt sorry and quit the channel :evil:
well,In Gnome support forum or gnome IRC , we never face's a comparison and kde bashing.
I feel this shows human characteristics and culture :lol:

[p_quarles]

My only whining is that DONT let Ubuntu split on the basis of Desktop Environments!I mean say NO to kubuntu,xubuntu etc.
So it's just the different names that bother you? There are actually specific reasons for marketing the different Ubuntu versions this way. Of course, if you don't like those reasons, you are free to refer to them all as simply Ubuntu, since that's essentially what they all are.

yet kde boys can make a custom spin of their kind they like and maintain it.an example is kdemod in archlinux
I am not at all concerned about small wm's and xfce.
it is,the fight between Gnome and kde which is lethal.
kde distros are a pleanty.while one can find few Gnome distros which are up2date with latest Gnome.that one is ubuntu(may be fedora too!)
How is it "lethal"? The competition between the two big DEs and their fans has been going on forever, and neither seems the worse for it.

imo,a lot of developer powers are spend on kubunti! ,but I hoped these people can concentrate on One and Only Original Ubuntu and make it even better!just now we have brainstorm launched.how do the devels take care of all these ideas?already they are burdened with kubuntu thing especially.
You might want to reconsider some of these assumptions. First of all, the differences between Kubuntu and the Debian KDE snapshots upon which it is based are minimal. Whereas the Gnome version of Ubuntu is very heavily altered, the KDE version is essentially just an easy-to-install, prepackaged version of Debian Testing with a few bugfixes and a splash screen.

Furthermore, if the Kubuntu team were told to stop doing their work, what do you think would happen? Would they start pitching in on Evolution and gconf-editor? Or would they start contributing to a KDE-centric distro? I'm guessing the latter. Having a KDE side project only attracts more community developers to Ubuntu -- it doesn't detract from the work that Gnome developers do.

I feel,after a vanila Ubuntu installation,kde boys can "apt-get install kde" that's better :)
You already can do that. What's wrong with having it packaged on its own CD for those who don't want to do that?

this can be the real flamebait!that I remembered yesterdays interaction in IRC!:
u can copy my words to bash.org if u want: :D
well,In Gnome support forum or gnome IRC , we never face's a comparison and kde bashing.
I feel this shows human characteristics and culture :lol:
Yes, people can sometimes be rude on IRC. While I think many of those remarks are meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, there are also those who take the DE wars far too seriously. It's best just to ignore them.

[djbsteart1]

well,I never said Kde to be killed !My stand is let Ubuntu be a pakka(full) Gnome Distro!let kde etc be an option!
before tagging me as a Gnome fanboy(I'd rather like it!),let u confirm that I also use Archlinux with kdemod-3.5.9 :lol:!OK?shocked :D ?
My only whining is that DONT let Ubuntu split on the basis of Desktop Environments!I mean say NO to kubuntu,xubuntu etc.

yet kde boys can make a custom spin of their kind they like and maintain it.an example is kdemod in archlinux
I am not at all concerned about small wm's and xfce.
it is,the fight between Gnome and kde which is lethal.
kde distros are a pleanty.while one can find few Gnome distros which are up2date with latest Gnome.that one is ubuntu(may be fedora too!)

imo,a lot of developer powers are spend on kubunti! ,but I hoped these people can concentrate on One and Only Original Ubuntu and make it even better!just now we have brainstorm launched.how do the devels take care of all these ideas?already they are burdened with kubuntu thing especially.

I feel,after a vanila Ubuntu installation,kde boys can "apt-get install kde" that's better :)

this can be the real flamebait!that I remembered yesterdays interaction in IRC!:
u can copy my words to bash.org if u want: :D
well,In Gnome support forum or gnome IRC , we never face's a comparison and kde bashing.
I feel this shows human characteristics and culture :lol:

Witout this competition it is very possible that the advancies in both DE's would not have been made. This is why we need many different versions of software, the choice it creates means that developers are happy working on something that suites them, the end user is also happy, and if she/he sees the need to change can easily do so. This whole thing can be seen like this, you can take kubuntu, tell it to install the ubuntu desktop and remove the kubuntu one, you have gnome ubuntu, there is no difference. This option of DE is very useful to the ubuntu project as is stated above,

[zach12]

Why not Just have something ask you witch Wm you want to install:)