Ubuntu and other distros

[Syndacate]

I find myself at a crossroads in linux.

I need to format my other computer (my laptop). Now if you asked me a week ago what distro I was gonna put on it it'd be ubuntu hands down - unless I decided to go xubuntu with the gnome desktop package.

Now I'm kinda weary, ubuntu's good 'n all. Though my friend's using Gentoo - now obviously Gentoo is much too far out of my league, but he's trying to shove Sabayon down my throat. Then I got another friend telling me I should use SUSE.

Now I used SUSE awhile ago and it was fine, my other friend has Sabayon installed and it doesn't look much diff from Ubuntu.

So which distro should I go with?

I do realize that this is an ubuntu forum therefore most people would be partial to Ubuntu. The guy that's saying to go Sabayon says Ubuntu tries to do too much **** for you then when you want to do something you have to fight it, plus he says it has a lot of issues that other distros just don't have - but it's good never-the-less.

What's the difference in overall between Sabayon and Ubuntu? I realize one's Gentoo based and the other's Debian based - but what's that mean? I mean like - I realize what it means - but what does it mean in terms of Usage? And is SUSE anything good but a fileserver?

[r4ik]

Build you're computer and install (hardy by that time) again.
Questions can be asked and will be answered right here.
As for the distro's you mentioned they are all good in there own way but most important is you use the dist you like and not the one somebody else wants you to use.

Good luck !

[jaytek13]

I've never really understood the argument that other distro's users make when they say "ubuntu tries to do everything for you." Yes, it does the simple things for you... setting up hardware, configuring networks, installing restricted software. Oftentimes these other distro's users will say that, but then go on to say they don't like Ubuntu because of a lack of gui configuration tools and it forces you to use the command line often... so this argument doesn't really make sense. There is nothing you can't do with Ubuntu that you can't do with any other Linux distro, and if anything Ubuntu encourages you to be comfortable with the command line much more so than some other distro's... particularly Suse.

As far as Gentoo... eh, it's really a novelty distro. The speed difference it offers is minimal. Compiling every package from source can be annoying, and doing this doesn't really teach you anything. Anyone on any distro can compile something from source, and learning how to use make really isn't all that useful. Installing Gentoo is a project and it does -show- you some thing that happen behind the scenes in a normal Linux GUI installation, but you don't really "learn" anything from doing this since you'd just download and follow some instructions.

All in all, when it comes down to it Linux is Linux, regardless of the distro. There is one very significant difference between Ubuntu and the rest of them, though, and that's the community. This is the most helpful community you will ever encounter in the Linux world. That's one of the main reasons I use Ubuntu, personally. I've used Linux for 10+ years, and it always bothered me that Linux users have had a history of being arrogant and elitist and incredibly unhelpful. Ubuntu has tried to strip Linux of that stereotype of it's users, and it's done an incredible job of doing so. I've tried the other distros that are out right now, and I always end up coming back to Ubuntu just to be part of this great community of people.

But, Linux is all about choice. You can pick a distro today, and change your mind tomorrow, and change it again the next day. Try them all out, figure out which one you like personally, and there you go.

[bodhi.zazen]

Bah, install them all (multiboot), try 'em out. Check out the various forums.

Then, choose the one you like. Stay with the one you like most and learn it inside and out.

Other then personal preference is is hard to say any of the major distors is clearly superior to the others. No distro has a better community then Ubuntu though.

[eolson]

what everybody else said. Once you get past the desktop they are all pretty much the same. Yeah some of the use different installers and some of them have a little different structure to the file system, but past that they're all Linux. Just pick the one you like. One thing for certain, you'll get good at installing/uninstalling them. There are plenty of them.

[Syndacate]

I understand what you all are saying.

My bsaic thing is like, obviously I'm not good with linux knowledge, to me - debian based, gentoo based...*shrugs*

What can gentoo do that debian can't? Or vice versa? The main thing I was wondering was Sabayon vs. Ubuntu Or which one is more stable? Or which one is better for X activity?

[Syndacate]

*Bump, any more opinions?

[kellemes]

You're asking a lot of questions.. a little too much for one thread I guess.
There are 350+ distro's out there.. see distrowatch.com for examples.

You really need to try, just burn a bunch of liveCD's and see for yourself. They all are made to do the same thing.. so there isn't one better for X or whatever.. they're all the same OS in the end, just using there own tools and methods to get the job done.

[ugm6hr]

My bsaic thing is like, obviously I'm not good with linux knowledge, to me - debian based, gentoo based...*shrugs*

Honestly - if you already use Ubuntu, and "understand" it, it would save a lot of hassle to just use it again.

Using a different distro might be interesting, but if you are not particularly into meddling with your computer, and would prefer to just use it to accomplish tasks, better the devil you know is a good approach.

My brother is a Gentoo user. He likes the fact that his packages tend to be more up-to-date, that he has compiled his kernel with personalised settings and drivers. I like the fact that Ubuntu installed automatically with all the drivers for my various devices. His installation to get Gnome and Firefox on a Gentoo base took a good 5 hours+ of compilation time. Mine took 25 minutes. But his system is apparently faster. I can't tell the difference though.

It's all about personal preference.

[bill_greene]

You're asking a lot of questions.. a little too much for one thread I guess.
There are 350+ distro's out there.. see distrowatch.com for examples.

You really need to try, just burn a bunch of liveCD's and see for yourself. They all are made to do the same thing.. so there isn't one better for X or whatever.. they're all the same OS in the end, just using there own tools and methods to get the job done.

This pretty much what I did. Try the live cd's and see what you and your computer's hardware like. I prefer Debian/Ubuntu/Linux Mint myself.

[Syndacate]

Err, I wasn't asking out of ALL the distros. I realize there's way too many.

Just mainly Sabayon vs. Ubuntu.

The person that said that if I already understand Ubuntu then it'd make sense to stick with it - I do understand Ubuntu quite well - but I'm a far cry from a linux pro - or even an Ubuntu pro.

You have a point about Gentoo being the whole "custom bling bling" crap - but Sabayon is to Gentoo much like Ubuntu is to Debian - it comes much like Ubuntu with all the stuff pre-installed - no kernel compilation required, so on and so forth.

I suppose I can try the live CD, but in all honesty the Live CD doesn't tell you much, I don't even know why they have it. I thought I "liked" KDE until I used it for a day - then I switched to Gnome and was like "omg KDE blows" - I tried it again just tonight...for <5 minutes, and I'm back to Gnome. Sabayon can host Gnome or KDE so I don't really care.

Though I'm wondering basically Sabayon vs Ubuntu :-\

[fiddledd]

I do understand Ubuntu quite well - but I'm a far cry from a linux pro - or even an Ubuntu pro.

IMHO you don't need to be a "LInux Pro". All I want, and I think most average Computer users want, is to be able to use a Computer to do what I want it to do (Browse the Web, Write Letters, Send Email, Watch Videos, Listen to music, etc, etc). You just need to find the OS that does all of that for you with the least amount of hassle and in the most secure environment. In my case I found Ubuntu did all I wanted it to do except a couple of important things (I actually went back to XP after more than a year of Ubuntu, it's not relevant to this thread what Ubuntu didn't handle in my case), but i found other Distros I tried lacking in one way or another. Again that's just me, if the idea of an active and helpful Forum Comunity is important to you, stick to Ubuntu. If not then try other Distros, Sabayon seems a good Distro though for me a little bloated (more software after install than I would ever need, but of course you can change that). You was looking for opinions, this is mine. :)

PS:
This is not relevant to the Thread, but just to cover myself:

To all the prospective posters dying to warn me about Virus, Spyware, Malware etc on Windows, thanks in advance, but please don't bother, it's not a secret or news to me and ATM I gotta live with it until Linux does All i need it to (which I hope isn't too far in the future). :)

[Jimmyfj]

Since I remember people around me encouraged me to make my own experiences in life. Same goes for my choices regarding which OS I like the most. I've tried out several distros and, like so many before me, ended up going back to Ubuntu, and why? Because it just works. Things are just working flawlessly in Ubuntu. Something you cannot say for most distros. But the ultimate reason why I prefer Ubuntu is the community surrounding the distro. I've never seen anything so wonderful and ready to help/share. None of the other distros communities come anyway near the wonderful people that makes up our community, and still we are more than happy to welcome them here too.

Take a look at some of the other distros. Try them out. But most important: Make your own experiences about which distro you like the most. Nothing good comes from following other peoples taste. You got to have your own.

[frankos44]

The fact is Ubuntu Linux and PCLinux are the two top Linux distros. That dosent happen by chance.

Ive tried Arch, OpenSuse, PcLinux, Mandriva and RedHat and I still prefer my trusty Ubuntu the best for ease of setup. My Ubuntu Server is perfect low maintenance and works well also.

Im about to play with ShiftLinux/Fluxbox out of interest, but that is Debian based also so should be good.

[ugm6hr]

The person that said that if I already understand Ubuntu then it'd make sense to stick with it - I do understand Ubuntu quite well - but I'm a far cry from a linux pro - or even an Ubuntu pro.

You have a point about Gentoo being the whole "custom bling bling" crap - but Sabayon is to Gentoo much like Ubuntu is to Debian - it comes much like Ubuntu with all the stuff pre-installed - no kernel compilation required, so on and so forth.


I've never tried Sabayon - but I've just seen that it does seem to be a pre-configured Gentoo distro.

Things to think about when comparing (which can only be done by you):
Does your hardware work?
How easy is installation of additional packages (i.e. Synaptic vs Portage)?
How good is the communtiy support? PS: The forum link doesn't seem to work on the Sabayon website - maybe just a problem today,,,

[kellemes]

The fact is Ubuntu Linux and PCLinux are the two top Linux distros. That dosent happen by chance.


Based on what?
Don't tell me you base this on Distrowatch.. these figures teach you nothing.
Being firmly grounded in the enterprise SuSe, RH and Debian are probably the most used distro's out there.

[kellemes]

You have a point about Gentoo being the whole "custom bling bling" crap - but Sabayon is to Gentoo much like Ubuntu is to Debian - it comes much like Ubuntu with all the stuff pre-installed - no kernel compilation required, so on and so forth.



Sabayon and Ubuntu are trying to deliver a finished product. Simply take a pretty fine base-system like Gentoo or Debian, tweak a little (or a lot), package it nicely, give it some cool name (like Ubuntu :confused:) and market it.

Personally I don't really understand the reason for using Sabayon, well.. besides the fact it may work with your hardware. It is still a sourcebased distro, I really can't think of any reason for average Joe to use a sourcebased distro.

[bodhi.zazen]

Err, I wasn't asking out of ALL the distros. I realize there's way too many.

Just mainly Sabayon vs. Ubuntu.

Sabayon is a fine distro, but it has issues. As you know, it is based on Gentoo. It is very nice in that is is more or less a customized Gentoo install, and it is quite large. I like it very much as a live CD.

The problem I have had with sabayon is, it is not completely compatible with Gentoo. So, you may have problems with you try to emerge. They also do not have an easy way to keep your system up to date. You can not simply emerge world, you have to download the newest iso and re-install.

I would advise you go with straight Gentoo over Sabayon, it will be easier to maintain in the long run. If Gentoo is too complex, IMIO, so is Sabayon. IMO, just because you can boot / install Sayabon does NOT mean you can sys admin a gentoo system.

[Pandemic187]

Installing new applications, on the other hand was very difficult. I’m no Gentoo pro, nor is the average target Sabayon user, and about half of the packages I wanted to install wouldn’t because they were “masked,” according to Portage. I took the time to read through the Gentoo Handbook’s chapter on Portage and still didn’t find my answer, which was disappointing. I was also bothered that I was being prevented from doing things on my system because of settings I never configured myself, couldn’t understand, and were not accessible to the average user.
Certainly, this user could be biased. Maybe it is just his opinion that the package management in Sabayon is not the most convenient. But you would be hard-pressed to find someone who will say that Add/Remove, Synaptic and apt-get, Ubuntu's ways of obtaining packages, are difficult to use. They most certainly are not. Sometimes Ubuntu is considered to be an "intermediate" distribution due to its occasional use of terminal commands, but I can tell you that thanks to debian it has one of the best package management systems you'll ever come across. And as any experienced Linux user knows, package management is one of the most important features in a distribution.

Indeed it is personal preference, but if you're not a "Linux pro" I would definitely tell you to try as many distributions as you can, but for the user who doesn't know everything about Linux, I would definitely have to suggest Ubuntu over Sabayon. Sabayon offers a nice bundle of packages, but try to install anything new and you might have some issues, when compared to Ubuntu.

[jrothwell97]

It depends. Sabayon/Gentoo is very different to Ubuntu in that a) Gentoo must be compiled, manually, from source, and b) Gentoo uses a different package management system.

Gentoo uses the portage package management system. Ubuntu, being based on Debian, uses apt. Fedora and Red Hat (and SuSE), on the other hand, use RPM. From thereon in, it's just a matter of preference.

[FuturePilot]

I say use what works for you.

[Syndacate]

Certainly, this user could be biased. Maybe it is just his opinion that the package management in Sabayon is not the most convenient. But you would be hard-pressed to find someone who will say that Add/Remove, Synaptic and apt-get, Ubuntu's ways of obtaining packages, are difficult to use. They most certainly are not. Sometimes Ubuntu is considered to be an "intermediate" distribution due to its occasional use of terminal commands, but I can tell you that thanks to debian it has one of the best package management systems you'll ever come across. And as any experienced Linux user knows, package management is one of the most important features in a distribution.

Indeed it is personal preference, but if you're not a "Linux pro" I would definitely tell you to try as many distributions as you can, but for the user who doesn't know everything about Linux, I would definitely have to suggest Ubuntu over Sabayon. Sabayon offers a nice bundle of packages, but try to install anything new and you might have some issues, when compared to Ubuntu.

If Ubuntu is "intermediate" - what's "easy" as far as linux distros go?

Sabayon is a fine distro, but it has issues. As you know, it is based on Gentoo. It is very nice in that is is more or less a customized Gentoo install, and it is quite large. I like it very much as a live CD.

The problem I have had with sabayon is, it is not completely compatible with Gentoo. So, you may have problems with you try to emerge. They also do not have an easy way to keep your system up to date. You can not simply emerge world, you have to download the newest iso and re-install.

I would advise you go with straight Gentoo over Sabayon, it will be easier to maintain in the long run. If Gentoo is too complex, IMIO, so is Sabayon. IMO, just because you can boot / install Sayabon does NOT mean you can sys admin a gentoo system.

Not sure I entirely agree. While I do agree with the fact that Gentoo is a pain in the *** to update and such, you're saying if Gentoo is too complicated (and it's too complicated from the sheer factor that you have to load your own kernel), then Sabayon is as well - which I don't see how you compare the two as Sabayon comes with the main thing that makes Gentoo complex to install (the compilation of the Kernel). There's a guy on my floor who's using Linux for the first time, now this other Linux Zealot crammed Sabayon down his throat after "Ubuntu not letting him do what he wanted to do" - now he swears by Gentoo based, and obvioiusly he attacked me with that crap as well. So this other guy's using Sabayon and he's never used Linux before in his life and he's absolutely loving it. So while I agree that Gentoo in base form is too hard, I don't agree that that makes Sabayon hard because even though it's Gentoo based, they're far from the same.

Sabayon and Ubuntu are trying to deliver a finished product. Simply take a pretty fine base-system like Gentoo or Debian, tweak a little (or a lot), package it nicely, give it some cool name (like Ubuntu ) and market it.

Personally I don't really understand the reason for using Sabayon, well.. besides the fact it may work with your hardware. It is still a sourcebased distro, I really can't think of any reason for average Joe to use a sourcebased distro.

Uhh, it's Ubuntu a source based distro (debian)? Ubuntu almost works fine with my hardware, almost bearable I guess.

I've never tried Sabayon - but I've just seen that it does seem to be a pre-configured Gentoo distro.

Things to think about when comparing (which can only be done by you):
Does your hardware work?
How easy is installation of additional packages (i.e. Synaptic vs Portage)?
How good is the communtiy support? PS: The forum link doesn't seem to work on the Sabayon website - maybe just a problem today,,,

Yes, my hardware works, I don't know about how Porage is but Synaptic is very easy to use (though Sabayon has a program much like it under a diff name, same concept, different repositories), my linux zealot friend claims the support for Gentoo based distros is more than it is for debian based distros - but he's on the whole "ubuntu sucks" path ATM.

------------------------------------------------------------

I understand what most of you guys are saying - about how it has to be something that I try and like for myself. Though I use my linux PC for everything. I don't want to be using Sabayon for a month then find it absolutely blows or is extremely limited. Likewise, I feel like Ubuntu is the mac version of linux (kinda funny when I put it like that as IMO OS X Panther + is linux, those art wrister slitter homos just don't wanna admit it). I feel like Ubuntu babies you along. I don't know ANYTHING about Ubuntu, linux, or any other the UNIX based systems - Ubuntu makes that possible - so does Sabayon. They open the gates for people that know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about linux to use it 100% every day.

This is good - or is it?

Well it's good because everything works - Linux reliability with a interface that's as easy to use as Windows.

But it's bad because you can use Ubuntu for a year and not know jack **** about Linux.

I don't know anything about Linux, but I'd like to get Gentoo just to compile my own Kernel? What's the purpose of doing that? To run faster? Absolutely not, I'd just like to dig deeper into the Linux world and I don't think Ubuntu or Sabayon could ever allow that. So while I do realize that Sabayon is much like Ubuntu in the fact that it's a gift wrapped and compiled version of the source that works well, I'm wondering if Sabayon is a step "up"? Or would it be on the same playing field? Obviously going from Ubuntu to Gentoo would fry my head - no questions asked. Though what about in between?

I hate not knowing the system I'm using - I know Windows well, when Windows has just about any of its errors (and it has very many) - Most of the time I know exactly what to do - exactly how to fix it, so on and so forth. Does this mean I should use Windows? No, I hate it, but truth is I grew up on it so I know it. So I don't know the system I'm using and it's really pissing me off. What happens as SOON as I can't figure something out? I google it. Though I don't get very far and usually don't know what half of the crap means - so i end up coming here, consuming ubuntuforums.org's bandwidth posting retarded *** questions.

Do you see the thing next to my avatar? "Way too much Ubuntu" - that's NOT because I'm in here doing tech support for newbies, no, it's there because I'm always in here asking stupid questions that I can't find the answer to on google (which is surprising as usually i'm a very good google searcher, but most linux zealots write the "how it works" pages which make it difficult to understand). I don't like it the way it is. If something happens to my computer with Ubuntu, I'm 100% boned, not even some preliminary make out session, I'm completely boned. And I don't like to be boned by anybody but my girlfriend, so when my computer tries to bone me for some stupid reason, it sucks - because I can do absolutely nothing about it - I'm forced to come here and ask some stupid question in the newb forum. It's degrading as ****, and obviously it pisses other people off.

So I'm trying to take it up - notches at a time, to completely understand the system, so I can use it more efficiently. So I can know what to do when something happens - WHY it happens, what are the fixes, what files to check? So on and so forth.

My linux zealot friend (well one of them) - if something happens - he knows EXACTLY which .conf files to look at it EXACTLY what to try in the terminal because understands the system through and through.

I'm rambling, but I think you got the gist.

[bodhi.zazen]

Don't let the zelots tell you how and what to run. Ubuntu / Debian is different from Gentoo, not necessarily better.

Sabayon works well out of the box, but as I said it is difficult if not impossible to update.

Do not confuse familiar with better. I can easily edit a few config files on ANY distro, ubuntu or gentoo. This is because I am familiar with Linux and has nothing to do with Ubuntu is better the Gentoo.

I say, if your friend was any good with Linux s/he could run any distro with equal ease. That is the sign of a true master.

[richardward101]

If you try out the Sabayon live DVD don't be seduced by its wily ways. Its starts up with cool exciting music playeing and you've decided its the distro you want before you even see a gui. Make sure you test it out a good deal before you decide its the distro for you.
I've used all 3 distros in question, and i think for the avarage desktop gentoo or sabayon is a little too much hard like hard work (i just went back to ubuntu on my desktop, although i'm keeping my server on gentoo). That said you do learn stuff using different distros, and gentoo really cements the ideas of what goes into an operating system and how it hangs together, even if you don't learn anything concrete.

[ugm6hr]

I hate not knowing the system I'm using - I know Windows well, when Windows has just about any of its errors (and it has very many) - Most of the time I know exactly what to do - exactly how to fix it, so on and so forth.

So I'm trying to take it up - notches at a time, to completely understand the system, so I can use it more efficiently. So I can know what to do when something happens - WHY it happens, what are the fixes, what files to check? So on and so forth.

Windows "babies" you along too. How did you find out the inner workings of Windows? Presumably by finding problems, googling and asking people. When you found the solution, did you commit it to memory for future reference? Do you use that memory for pattern recognition when new, but similar, problems occur?

No reason why you shouldn't use the same approach to Ubuntu. There is no such thing as a stupid question. Things are easy if you know how; not so easy if you don't. It just takes time. Unfortunately, your "expert" Windows background may be what is hindering you.

My linux zealot friend (well one of them) - if something happens - he knows EXACTLY which .conf files to look at it EXACTLY what to try in the terminal because understands the system through and through.

Using Gentoo will not magically give you this ability. But since it does require you to edit those files when initially installing, it will teach you more about the "inner workings". The question is - do you want a system that works until you edit those files (Ubuntu and presumably Sabayon), or do you want a non-functional computer while you work out how to install everything properly. The "inner workings" are still there in Ubuntu, you just don't need to find them. When you do - there is nothing wrong with asking where to look.

As an example - my brother initially compiled his Gentoo kernel without FAT support. Error noted when trying to write to USB flash disk. Recompilation ensued.... So - problems tend to be due to your own omissions, rather than the Ubuntu developer's, so it is likely you will know what the problem is when it occurs.

Hope that helps.

[frankos44]

Based on what?
Don't tell me you base this on Distrowatch.. these figures teach you nothing.
Being firmly grounded in the enterprise SuSe, RH and Debian are probably the most used distro's out there.

If you say so, I assume you have a better source for popularity figures then?

[Linuxratty]

Just burn whatever you thinks looks interesting and run it live...
Use whatever floats your boat.
Ive used Linspire/Freespire,Klikit,Kubuntu,Ubuntu,Fedora8 and am using Mepis7.

[AndyCooll]

I'd say stick with what you've got for now, install Virtualbox and use that to test out a few of these alternative distros. That's one of the beauties of Linux, you can try as many as you want, there are no installation limitations. And we have the tools to do so Live Cd's, virtualisation, dual-boot ...the choice is yours.

As far as I'm aware, Ubuntu is as easy to use as any other distro. Others include PCLinuxOS, Mint (which is essentially a modified Ubuntu), Freespire etc. Indeed most mainstream distros these days can be considered such.

If you consider yourself to be a "beginner" then it is likely that you'd find Gentoo (and for that matter Sabayon) a bit tough at the moment. Traditionally distros such as Gentoo and Slackware have been aimed at more experienced users. Though Sabayon itself wouldn't be as difficult to install, it may well prove to be tougher to maintain.

However, we repeat, you should choose what suits you not your friend, A question that sometimes gets raised is why there are so many distros, and the answer is that each of our computing needs and knowledge is different. Ubuntu is popular because it works well for many many people, but it's not for everyone. I started out using Fedora (and I quite liked it), however when I tried Ubuntu it's ease of use grabbed me straight away. And over the last couple of years that ease of use has kept me using it. It also means I've been able to build on that ease of use and concentrate on developing my knowledge and learn more advanced features.
Ubuntu certainly isn't limiting ...it's only limited by ones own level of knowledge. Yes you can have the ultimate learning curve by switching to Slackware, Gentoo, or Linux From Scratch for instance, but advanced Linux knowledge doesn't have to be confined to these distros only.

:cool:

[Lord Illidan]

I also recommend Arch Linux if you're interested. It has some very good documentation, does not hold your hand, and it is a binary distro.

It's also faster than Ubuntu, at least for me.

[Pandemic187]

I also recommend Arch Linux if you're interested. It has some very good documentation, does not hold your hand, and it is a binary distro.

It's also faster than Ubuntu, at least for me.
Arch is a MOTHER to setup. Many people have done it successfully, but considering this (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Official_Arch_Linux_Install_Guide) is a guide just on installing Arch, I think it'll be a while before I actually have the free time to seriously try it.

[billgoldberg]

I would stay with ubuntu.

Why?

Well, you already know how to use it/fix bugs/ ...

Really, Sabayon also uses gnome/kde, compiz, ... it's not that much different

The standard artwork is a bit better but who ever keeps the original theme?

Plus, support for ubuntu is the best in the linux world.

[aysiu]

Since this isn't really a support request ("How do I solve this problem?") but more of a preference poll ("What is a better distro to use?"), I'm moving it out of Absolute Beginner.

[ezsit]

I hate not knowing the system I'm using - I know Windows well, when Windows has just about any of its errors (and it has very many) - Most of the time I know exactly what to do - exactly how to fix it, so on and so forth.

You just answered your own question. Install Ubuntu since you know it and proceed to break it. Only by fixing problems will you really learn how the thing works. The same way you (and most of us) learned about Windows, break it and learn to fix the sucker.

You do not need to find a difficult to install Linux in order to learn the inner workings. You need to install Linux and fix the broken bits as you explore. Or, just buy a book on Ubuntu, not a fluff thing like the 4 dummies, but something substantial, like:
Hacking Ubuntu: Serious Hacks Mods and Customizations (ExtremeTech) by Neal Krawetz
A Practical Guide to Ubuntu Linux(R) by Mark G. Sobell
Ubuntu Linux Toolbox: 1000+ Commands for Ubuntu and Debian Power Users by Christopher Negus and Francois Caen
Ubuntu Hacks: Tips & Tools for Exploring, Using, and Tuning Linux (Hacks) by Jonathan Oxer, Kyle Rankin, and Bill Childers)

Or, just install and configure Slackware, use it for a few months and tell us you didn't learn a thing about Linux.

Have fun, and explore. :)

[wolfen69]

If Ubuntu is "intermediate" - what's "easy" as far as linux distros go?

LinuxMint comes to mind. it is basically ubuntu that requires virtually no tweaking to use. it has all codecs, flash, java, etc., pre-installed. really nice distro btw.

[Syndacate]

Thanks for all the replies, sorry about long response, school has been killing me.

You just answered your own question. Install Ubuntu since you know it and proceed to break it. Only by fixing problems will you really learn how the thing works. The same way you (and most of us) learned about Windows, break it and learn to fix the sucker.

You do not need to find a difficult to install Linux in order to learn the inner workings. You need to install Linux and fix the broken bits as you explore. Or, just buy a book on Ubuntu, not a fluff thing like the 4 dummies, but something substantial, like:

I suppose, yeah :| - I don't really know (obviously).

I also recommend Arch Linux if you're interested. It has some very good documentation, does not hold your hand, and it is a binary distro.

It's also faster than Ubuntu, at least for me.

"doesn't hold your hand" is one way of putting it.
"doesn't install if you haven't been using linux hardcore for over a year" is another.

From what I hear it's more of a bitch to install then Gentoo.

Windows "babies" you along too. How did you find out the inner workings of Windows? Presumably by finding problems, googling and asking people. When you found the solution, did you commit it to memory for future reference? Do you use that memory for pattern recognition when new, but similar, problems occur?

No reason why you shouldn't use the same approach to Ubuntu. There is no such thing as a stupid question. Things are easy if you know how; not so easy if you don't. It just takes time. Unfortunately, your "expert" Windows background may be what is hindering you.

Windows does baby you a long, but it also has daily error messages and bi-weekly melt-downs with a recommended 6 month period before formatting. If you want your XP installation to last - you learn real fast how to maintenance it. Though I've been using Windows forever - first DOS, then 3.1, so on and so forth, That's well over a decade of use.

Using Gentoo will not magically give you this ability. But since it does require you to edit those files when initially installing, it will teach you more about the "inner workings". The question is - do you want a system that works until you edit those files (Ubuntu and presumably Sabayon), or do you want a non-functional computer while you work out how to install everything properly. The "inner workings" are still there in Ubuntu, you just don't need to find them. When you do - there is nothing wrong with asking where to look.

As an example - my brother initially compiled his Gentoo kernel without FAT support. Error noted when trying to write to USB flash disk. Recompilation ensued.... So - problems tend to be due to your own omissions, rather than the Ubuntu developer's, so it is likely you will know what the problem is when it occurs.

Hope that helps.

It will and it won't. It won't teach you - but it'll force you to learn.

As far as your brother and compiling without FAT support, WOW, I would have NEVER even REMOTELY thought of that and then when the error happened I wouldn't have the SLIGHTEST clue what to do about it.

Which is what pisses me off.

I think I need like an idiot's guide to a successful Gentoo installation or something.

I was thinking of just running Gentoo (or trying to) on a 10GB partition in the back of my hard drive some place so in free time I can boot it up and work on it - but then running an "easier" distro such as Ubuntu or Sabayon as my daily - with obviously XP for gaming.

I guess there's no "official" answer to this, I thought it would be kinda partial towards one distro for daily use but it's simply not :-\. On one hand there's easy systems such as Sabayon or Ubuntu and on the other there's things that actually force you to know about the OS you're using - so when it does break down, you don't sit there with your thumb up your *** trying to google what in the ***** to do.

It really is a lot more complex than pple make it sound - There's like 90 billion distros and nobody's actually able to tell me what the hell the difference is between half of them except on what system it's based on - in which nobody seems to know the differences of the base - just that it's "different."

heh, I guess I was looking for a nice lil bar graph that had which distros are better for what or something - something real clear, but it's really real abstract..