What's your Favorite IDE?

[eezgb]

Vim ia amazing! lots of plugins .:)

[chris200x9]

geany

[notquitemichael]

well thanks for all that. for anyone who finds this post:
after fiddling around i came to the conclusion that if your going to IDE geany is amazing,

BUT! if your a learner, despite how against the grain it sounds, it is much easier and instructive simply to use gedit [either save the file blank as .cpp, or set it to c++ source for syntax highlighting,] then use the command prompt [typ. g++ NAME_OF_FILE.cpp -o NAME_OF_FILE, then type ./NAME_OF_FILE to run it.]

well thats just my two cents.

[Nemooo]

I, too, prefer using gedit and g++ for compiling and running. It's easy to use and gedit doesn't "mess" with my code; no auto-completetion, no automatic tabbing, no extra project files, just plain and good syntax highlight. Plus I like keeping a minimum of programs.

I can understand, though, why you want an IDE, but the only thing that makes an IDE easier (in my opinion/experience) is the ability to compile and run with the press of a key, but that's almost as easy using the terminal. You can just run one compile command and one command for running the program.

[anantshri]

well for anjuta not compilling,

but check this that old anjuta did work like a charm for me but new one i am unable to find build options also.

try once installing old anjuta 1X series.

[danbuter]

I agree with using geany. I love this ide. And it handles a lot more than c++, if you're looking to learn other languages later.

Also, do this, if you haven't:
sudo aptitude install build-essential

[hums07]

Looks like nobody recommends KDevelop. Well, I am a starter myself and just ran into KDevelop.

Probably for a beginner, using plain editor or simple IDE will be the best.

However, for program development, visual programming is much quicker to deploy. You can do C++ programming with KDevelop. I see KDevelop integrates with Qt for the visual editor, to some extent like visual C++. I mean you can design form, change properties, and so on easily.

Many visual program is created using KDevelop, including KDE programs (and KDE itself).

[POW R TOC H]

I would go with Code::Blocks. Compiles with any compiler you want (preferably gcc), works with C and C++, has good templates, it's modular, and It has a debugger. Actually, uses gdb (i thing, but i'm not sure) but it's great. It's good for both big and small projects. Give it a try, and you won't be sorry...
CLICK (www.codeblocks.org)

[faical117]

my favorite ide => jedit eclipse:popcorn:

[faical117]

my favorite ide => jedit eclipse:popcorn:

eclipse jedit

[fela]

The only sort of developing i do is shell scripts (:(), nano suits me fine for that (or gedit if I'm running a GUI).

[Phobia]

I am using Codeblocks most of the time cause I have use both Ubuntu and M$. I was using Dev-C++ and I still do use the portable version of it at work. I would like to see a UML plug-in for CodeBlocks but that isn't really needed.

[thewebpromoter]

Hey guys, Im a newbie in using Linux, I have an Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon at home and I am trying to look for a way on how to install gPHPEdit on the system , I heard its a good PHP editor to use in Ubuntu. Apparently, I cant see that stuff in the Add/Remove Applications and at the Synaptic Package Manager of the system.

What should I do?


Thanks

[Natr0n]

Hey guys, Im a newbie in using Linux, I have an Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon at home and I am trying to look for a way on how to install gPHPEdit on the system , I heard its a good PHP editor to use in Ubuntu. Apparently, I cant see that stuff in the Add/Remove Applications and at the Synaptic Package Manager of the system.

What should I do?


Thanks

This is not the right thread for asking such a question, but I am going to venture a *completely* wild guess and say that typing

sudo apt-get install gphpedit

at a terminal prompt and hitting "enter" will likely solve your problem.

[descendency]

Visual Studio is by far my favorite IDE. If there is one thing MS does right, it's Visual Studio. The only IDE I've ever used in linux is MonoDevelop.

[soapytheclown]

Hey guys, Im a newbie in using Linux, I have an Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon at home and I am trying to look for a way on how to install gPHPEdit on the system , I heard its a good PHP editor to use in Ubuntu. Apparently, I cant see that stuff in the Add/Remove Applications and at the Synaptic Package Manager of the system.

What should I do?


Thanks


noooo gPHPEdit is outdated! however the latest version of geany is a dream com true for all kinds of development. i used to use gedit all the time but even th repo version of geany is a million times better! try it and you wont regret it! if you know how to compile then i recommend
the latest version 0.14!! if not then:-

sudo aptitude install geany

:)

[Belerophon]

Hi...
I'm a Vim user (well...I'm learning :)

I'm Portuguese, and I was trying to get vim to do spell check!!
I saw:
http://www.netadmintools.com/art438.html

and I tried to do
:setlocal spell spelllang=en_us

but it gives me the error:
Warning: Cannot find word list "pt.utf-8.spl" or "pt.ascii.spl"

I do I install a Portuguese dictionary in Vim??

Thanks!!

[adrian.mowrey]

Do you have any question in particular that you haven't understood in the Visual Basic .NET class so far? If yes, I might be able to help you. Thanks.

Sincerely,

Adrian G. Mowrey

[Mateo]

I used to use Netbeans for Ruby but it is a bit outdated now. I like Netbeans just because it is one of the few Java apps that doesn't completely destroy your system. That's not to say it's light on the resources or anything. But it's still useable.

I use Geany just because. Well, there's not many other choices. It's good enough. Nothing really special about it, but it does what it's supposed to without getting in the way.

[kavon89]

I'm going to go with NetBeans w/ Java. I find it easy to use and it has nice little features to make things a bit easier.

I think they've got a version or plugin for C++, might have to check that out.

[Belerophon]

Now that I have spell check on VIM, this is definitely my favorite IDE, specially for Latex.
We can do almost anything from within vim, great and many plugins for many languages, highly configurable...
vim rules :)

[Zeotronic]

Obviously I didn't read every message of this insanely long thread, but I did glance over the ones at the begining and the end.

Geany is my favorite IDE.

[spyder0080]

I'm going to go with NetBeans w/ Java. I find it easy to use and it has nice little features to make things a bit easier.

I think they've got a version or plugin for C++, might have to check that out.

nononono! netbeans, although has good gui design features, is a pain to deal with! there's also a huge memory leak also. for java, i would go with eclipse. for everything, go with vim!

[hatoyu]

anjuta

[Tiede]

By far. Very very far. Codeblocks from svn is my favorite IDE.
I used DevC++ and VS in Windows. I HATE the former and didn't quite understand the latter.
I used to think anjuta would do it for me, but ever since what happened with the ubuntu upgrade of anjuta to a alpha version a year ago (for those who remember), where it lacked a compile menu, a default editor and other such necessary parts, I have moved on to Code::Blocks
I have seen/used a few others in linux, but none that ever make me want to switch from Code::Blocks.

[tempest]

I am a Java developer and used Eclipse for a long time. I recently started working with Maven projects and found Netbeans to be very easy to use with the type of project. I am currently using Netbeans 6 with Ubuntu 7.10 and having no problems at all. I run Netbeans all day and do not seem to have any memory leak issues.

[Can+~]

I am a Java developer and used Eclipse for a long time. I recently started working with Maven projects and found Netbeans to be very easy to use with the type of project. I am currently using Netbeans 6 with Ubuntu 7.10 and having no problems at all. I run Netbeans all day and do not seem to have any memory leak issues.

Funny, I retook Eclipse with the pydev plugin, and I've been loving it so far. Specially typing something like

f = open(...)

f.<selector of methods>

[Alex Fernandez]

I am using Codeblocks most of the time cause I have use both Ubuntu and M$. I was using Dev-C++ and I still do use the portable version of it at work. I would like to see a UML plug-in for CodeBlocks but that isn't really needed.

This is why KDevelop4 ported to Windows is going to rock so much :P

[regomodo]

kate, drpython, geany.

I only do Python, and editing xml files.

[fi11222]

On Windows : MS Visual C++ definitely.

On linux: Geany seems quite good and not bloated.

[id1337x]

I use a lot of things. I use gedit sometimes and I use Eclipse for Java, JavaScript, HTML, and CSS because there is no better choice then Aptana.

Sometimes I use bluefish now because I have been making my own distribution from the source code. (sudo apt-get source bluefish)

[mkrahmeh]

am trying Kdevelop for the first time, it seems quite nice (the konsole n evrthing) but having trouble with the
*** Exited with status: 2 ***
issue for running the automake & friends
but it seems it became the IDE of choice already..sounds immature..huh :)

[maximinus_uk]

The best IDE for me is normally (it varies depending on what language I'm working with) some combination of a terminal, the screen command and EMACS.

I enjoyed KDevelop 'back in the day' but I don't think I've used it since 2000 (version 0.6 or something) :)

[Ed J]

I hope I don't get exiled for this...

vim?

Is it for the programmers that invented programming and can't let go, or am I missing something? It looks like a bad time warp. I'm not sure if its a rite of programmers passage or a inside joke for developers. Is this why some new users runs back to Win?
Since all you vim users think it's so great, do you even use a desktop GUI?
It felt like I was cooking dinner but had to use beveled rocks instead of knives to cut vegetables.
I realize it has a strong following, must be good for something. Unfortunately I became more frustrated with vim faster then anything I've encountered, EVER. I read countless posts touting its benefits so I gave it a shot. Its not for me and I can't understand how anyone could promote its use.
Does anybody agree or am I a rebel slandering the foundation of the whole GNU/Linux/Ubuntu community?

[LordKelvan]

Right on.


My God, how could anyone want to subject themselves to either Vim or Emacs? I swear, I have never come across anything that so ACTIVELY TRIED TO BE NON-USER-FRIENDLY. Its not even about bad design, poor execution or buggy software - I'm talking about someone ACTIVELY trying to create these pieces of nonsense. Its like someone sat down, brainstormed for a few days on the best ways to annoy/frustrate/utterly confuse a user, then wrote a program to implement said ideas. Basically, starting up Vim (without any prior knowledge) = death trap. There is no way out - you have to close the window, or if heaven forbid you are not running a DE, you have to kill the machine. Killing the machine to exit a non-frozen, friggin' program - unbelievable. Say what you will about Microsoft, but I can't remember the last time someone tried to pull a stunt like that on Windows.

Using either Vim/Emacs is, in every sense, an exercise in sado-masochism of the most extreme kind.


I could go on, but I think I'll let people weigh in on this.

Nothing to do now but put on my flame-retardant suit and wait for the heat....

[a9bejo]

ACTIVELY TRIED TO BE NON-USER-FRIENDLY.


Good user interface design is not simply about making some program so anyone can instantly do something with it. It is about designing your program so its audience can use it most effectively.

There are no other programs that do what Emacs does. There is nothing similar to its functionality or its architecture. I think I understand your confusion: You think that Emacs was made for the same audience as gedit. But that is simply not the case. Emacs is not the standard editor that new users open text files in. Emacs has more in common with Python than it has with gedit. And if you are an Emacs user, some text editor like gedit (which is a great text editor btw.) is no replacement for what you have.

Of course you have to learn how to use Emacs, before you can use it. Emacs is a very sophisticated program. The thing is: There is no similar tool that is easier to use. If you have an idea how you could make a better user interface for a program like Emacs, go on: There are many people who want to hear it.

Emacs user interface is absolutely simple and brilliant. It lets you access an infinite number of arbitrary functionality in a very accessible way. If you want to learn what Emacs is about, read this (http://blog.bookworm.at/2007/03/introduction-to-all-these-emacs.html).

If you don't care, that's OK, too. But then please do not rant about something you obviously do not understand. You only make a fool of yourself.

[nvteighen]

Possibly, the only thing you need is gedit. It's a good and easy to use text editor, with all things you want to have when learning to program: easy terminal access, Makefiles support, Python support, etc. A great app.

Emacs & vi(m) are too big for most average people needs.

[Ed J]

Emacs user interface is absolutely simple and brilliant. It lets you access an infinite number of arbitrary functionality in a very accessible way. If you want to learn what Emacs is about, read this (http://blog.bookworm.at/2007/03/introduction-to-all-these-emacs.html).

If you don't care, that's OK, too. But then please do not rant about something you obviously do not understand. You only make a fool of yourself.

I went there, I wanted to know, all I got was a message about the site still in beta. Maybe they're still trying to figure out emacs themselves.

[a9bejo]

all I got was a message about the site still in beta.

You really should have read that text twice before posting this. ;)

Here is the quote from the website (which happens to be my personal blog). Try hitting that link if you really don't get the sarcasm from the message itself.


Benjamin Ferrari's Weblog. This blog is still beta (http://blog.bookworm.at/2005/10/beta-blog_4427.html). Everything you hate will be fixed in the final version.

[LaRoza]

My God, how could anyone want to subject themselves to either Vim or Emacs? I swear, I have never come across anything that so ACTIVELY TRIED TO BE NON-USER-FRIENDLY. Its not even about bad design, poor execution or buggy software - I'm talking about someone ACTIVELY trying to create these pieces of nonsense. Its like someone sat down, brainstormed for a few days on the best ways to annoy/frustrate/utterly confuse a user, then wrote a program to implement said ideas. Basically, starting up Vim (without any prior knowledge) = death trap. There is no way out - you have to close the window, or if heaven forbid you are not running a DE, you have to kill the machine. Killing the machine to exit a non-frozen, friggin' program - unbelievable. Say what you will about Microsoft, but I can't remember the last time someone tried to pull a stunt like that on Windows.

Using either Vim/Emacs is, in every sense, an exercise in sado-masochism of the most extreme kind.


I don't think you get it. I use xmonad or wmii as my window manager. I can't use Windows, GNOME, KDE, Xfce OS X and others without frusteration. They seem to illogical and confusing to me.

I use vim (never emacs). Many times I have :wq or something in the text when I am using another editor. Why? Because vim is perfectly logical, at least as logical as anything else.

Sometimes people joke about newbs asking about the start menu or the "My Computer" icon in Linux. You are displaying the same attitude in a different environment.

All computer interfaces are learned. Just because you don't know the others, doesn't mean it is confusing by nature. How many times have I struggled to do basic tasks in IDE and failed?

[shifty2]

I think a lot of people confuse "user-friendly" with "ease of use".

For me, metacity, compiz, aero etc are not "user-friendly". I like stumpwm (my wm of choice) to be configured so it does exactly what I want it to - you just cant do that in wm's mentioned above. However, it is easy to understand how to use the others - give someone on windows a gnome desktop and they will work out what to do. Give them a black screen and they wouldn't have a clue.

This applies over to text editors too. The reason that vim and emacs are different is because they are more user friendly (excluding emacs pinky issue). Just because they are different to the normal ide does not mean they are worse or useless, you just have to have a different mindset when learning to use them.

I still remember the time I "got" emacs - suddenly everything that it did made perfect sense and doing it the traditional (ie gedit) just seemed inferior.

Try doing the vim/emacs tutorials - then try them for a few weeks. The come back and slate them.

[LordKelvan]

Good user interface design is not simply about making some program so anyone can instantly do something with it. It is about designing your program so its audience can use it most effectively.

This is a good point - but I feel that there are caveats to this. I will list them a little later on.

You think that Emacs was made for the same audience as gedit. But that is simply not the case. Emacs is not the standard editor that new users open text files in.

I did not wish to suggest this - Emacs is clearly a more advanced program for more advanced users. Again let me clarify my point a little later on.

If you don't care, that's OK, too. But then please do not rant about something you obviously do not understand. You only make a fool of yourself.

Again, I did not mean to suggest that I understand Emacs - in fact I'm an absolute beginner. I will more clearly frame my arguments in this context.


Sometimes people joke about newbs asking about the start menu or the "My Computer" icon in Linux. You are displaying the same attitude in a different environment.

I don't think my attitude is quite the same - let me address this along with the other poster's comments.


I'll start off my reply with the following quote which I think hits the nail on the head.


Give them a black screen and they wouldn't have a clue.


This is true of anyone - if I gave you a blank screen, it wouldn't matter how advanced your knowledge of computers was, you would not be able to do anything with it.

I can understand the argument that Vi is powerful, and perhaps this is the reason why everything is a bunch of cryptic shortcuts keys. However, would Vi's power be diminished if there was a help message to start up (that presumably you could remove later on)? There should be some features/functions that are universal to all programs - of which I feel that helpful hints are one of them.

This is exactly how Vi works - open it, and there is a blank screen. No instructions on how to get out or use it, and perhaps a cardinal sin for a text editor, the default mode that it starts up in DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO BEGIN TYPING. This type of behaviour seems to fly in the face of all common sense. It does not seem too much to ask that a text editor immediately let you begin typing the first time you open it. It does not seem too much to ask that it be intuitive for the first-time user to save his/her work, and to exit the program. These are basic requirements of any text editor - they are the most fundamental actions one could wish to perform when using a text editor. Given that I don't know very much about Vi, I will stop my criticism of it's functionality up to this point (basically I only know how to type text, save and exit Vi).

I am at the same level of expertise when it comes to Emacs, so I don't have too much more to say about it. One criticism, perhaps unfair, is that it seems easy to switch to a new mode in Emacs, where I can no longer type words (I probably switched to some sort of "command" mode similar to the one in Vi). I didn't investigate further, so I'm not sure what the cause is.

Cheers,
LK

[LordKelvan]

I think a lot of people confuse "user-friendly" with "ease of use".

This seems to be splitting hairs - while "user-friendly" can mean different things to different users (i.e., what a "power user" considers user-friendly may not be the same thing as what a beginner considers user-friendly), "user-friendly" generally equates to "ease of use", with respect to its target audience.



Just because they are different to the normal ide does not mean they are worse or useless, you just have to have a different mindset when learning to use them.

Try doing the vim/emacs tutorials - then try them for a few weeks. The come back and slate them.

I refer you to my above rebuttal - basically while there are many differences between programs depending on target audience, I feel that there are some functionality/design decisions which are so basic that they should be common to all programs.

If I read you correctly, your last sentence is suggesting that I should learn about the programs more before I rant about them. Again, in my above rebuttal, I more clearly state that my grievances with the programs deal with fairly basic tasks, and so I'm not complaining about the more advanced features (of which I know nothing about).

[shifty2]

If I read you correctly, your last sentence is suggesting that I should learn about the programs more before I rant about them. Again, in my above rebuttal, I more clearly state that my grievances with the programs deal with fairly basic tasks, and so I'm not complaining about the more advanced features (of which I know nothing about).

These basic tasks work differently to how other editors do them, hence you have to follow a tutorial. No one can start up vim and know how to copy and paste without ever using it before. They have to follow documentation. If you stop treating them like standard text editors all problems will be solved. You are assuming that because you have a knowledge of, say, gedit that means you know how to use them. Would you suddenly be able to code python because you know haskell? No, you would have to read a manual - the same applies to emacs and vim when compared to traditional editors.

My point with the black screen is that is what my screen is when i start up - nothing. It is only because I know the shortcuts etc that i can start anything, whereas with gnome if you start it up you can do pretty much everything. The same applies to vim/emacs - only after you learn them do they become usable.

[linkmaster03]

I've just started programming in Python, and I like it a lot. It gives appropriate syntax highlighting, and the ability to minimize functions, loops, and conditionals I'm sure will come in handy in the future. It also shows line numbers and is easy to use. I'm sure you can find all of this and more in other editors, but I like simplicity, and this is all I need.

[dwhitney67]

When is this thread going to die???

[LordKelvan]

dwhitney67: It will probably never die!! And why should it, it contains some very interesting discussions.

shifty2: It seems we have some fundamental differences in opinion :) While I agree that for some things, you will have to read the manual if you have any hope of using it, I argue that there should be some things which can either be accomplished without prior knowledge (to a reasonable degree - I suppose if someone had never even seen a computer, then all bets are off), or with very little exploration.

I guess I favour the GUI approach, where even if, say, I don't know how to save a file or exit the program, just by browsing around some of the buttons, I can find the right button to accomplish said tasks. If I want to do something more complex, then I can read the manual, or browse around some more. With console-based apps (and Vi), if you don't know what you're doing a priori, then no amount of exploring the program is either possible or will yield the answer.

Do you not feel that there is some value in having the basic functionality of your application be intuitive? Not to belabour the point, but seriously, not being able to type anything upon first starting up a text editor (a.k.a. Vi)? C'mon, that's just ridiculous.

[LordKelvan]

And it just occurred to me, in the spirit of this thread, I should probably state my favourite IDE's.

I really like jEdit, but recently have also taken a great liking to NetBeans. I think the only problem with jEdit is that it can, at times, but underpowered for my needs.

[dwhitney67]

dwhitney67: It will probably never die!! And why should it, it contains some very interesting discussions.
...
I won't disagree with you on what you stated above, but don't you think that "discussions" ought to be place in the Community Cafe forum?

I would like to think that the Programming Forum be reserved for programming problems, not endless discussions.

[CloudFX]

gedit for me!

[mssever]

However, would Vi's power be diminished if there was a help message to start up (that presumably you could remove later on)? There should be some features/functions that are universal to all programs - of which I feel that helpful hints are one of them.Vim used to display a help message when you started it up without naming any files. I can't seem to get the message to display anymore. Perhaps it has been removed? Note, though, that the vim man page gives instruvtions for getting help. So, the documentation is sufficient. When it comes to using a new CLI program, you should always read the man page anyway. If you don't, it's your fault if you can't use the program.

perhaps a cardinal sin for a text editor, the default mode that it starts up in DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO BEGIN TYPING. This type of behaviour seems to fly in the face of all common sense. It does not seem too much to ask that a text editor immediately let you begin typing the first time you open it.
[snip]
Given that I don't know very much about Vi, I will stop my criticism of it's functionality up to this point (basically I only know how to type text, save and exit Vi).So, basically, you think that vim should be crippled for the sake of newbies. Given that you don't know much about vim, you've made a key false assumption when you state vim's supposed cardinal sin.

You're assuming that the first thing someone wants to do when starting vim is to enter insert mode and start typing, which is generally false. I use vim a lot, and usually I do other things before typing. I might do a search. I might jump to a particular line. I might do a regex replace operation. I might delete something. Or something else. None of these tasks can be done in insert mode. Furthermore, for those who use the traditional navigation keys, even that must be done from normal mode. I use the arrow keys, home, end, etc., which work in any mode.

In addition, there are several kinds of insert mode. Should vim do i on startup? Or maybe a? or o? or O? or cw? or c$?

Finally, if you really want vim to enter insert mode by default, you can always configure it to do so. But that shouldn't be vim's default, because most users wouldn't want that. And being kind to newbies is NOT one of vim's goals.

EDIT: By the way, shouldn't vim start in normal mode? After normal mode is normal. Insert mode and visual mode are not normal mode.

[LordKelvan]

Before I respond, could I ask if your post was meant to be sarcastic? It seems your post goes from agreeing with me to disagreeing with me, and back, so I'm not sure if I should be defending myself :D

[mssever]

Before I respond, could I ask if your post was meant to be sarcastic? It seems your post goes from agreeing with me to disagreeing with me, and back, so I'm not sure if I should be defending myself :D
I'm disagreeing with you, while conceding the point that the help message that used to appear on startup when no file was opened is useful.

EDIT: My post wasn't intended to be sarcastic.

[LordKelvan]

Interesting points - these kinds of things I suppose devolve into opinions anyway.

I'll just nitpick a few of your points (to be clear, these in no way invalidate your arguments, although you are welcome to respond):

1) Cripple is a pretty strong word - surely opening in a mode that the majority of users (I include regular users) would expect is desirable? If you are really pro, then it should stand to reason that you can make a configuration change to have Vi start up in whatever mode you prefer. This way you can have the best of both worlds.

2) Calling it "normal mode" is an arbitrary choice - there is no reason "normal mode" couldn't have been the mode which allows you to enter text.

3) You say "being kind to newbs is not one of Vim's goals". This brings up an interesting point - I sometimes feel that Linux software is designed to be cryptic, as if to be otherwise diminishes the programmer in some way (less "manly" if you will).

"Not kind" != "Cruel"
I'm not suggesting Vim is cruel, just making a point that things don't always have to be extremes. You don't have to pander to the lowest common denominator, but you also don't have to make it rocket science.

Cheers,
LK

[Torajima]

You say "being kind to newbs is not one of Vim's goals". This brings up an interesting point - I sometimes feel that Linux software is designed to be cryptic, as if to be otherwise diminishes the programmer in some way (less "manly" if you will).

Talk is cheap, execution is hard.

Programmers creating terminal/CLI applications face limitations that GUI programmers don't. These limitations often force hard choices to be made, and you sometimes have to sacrifice form for function. Even when your goal is to create a user friendly, intuitive app, your program is still likely to have 'quirks' that need to be explained to the end user.

Now I'm not taking up for Vi, I created my own editor in part because I dislike modal editors. Nor do I disagree that more programmers should strive for good interface design.

But telling Vi/Vim fans what's wrong with their editor seems a waste of time to me. If you think you can do it better, grab the Vim source code and make it do what you wish. Release a better version, and everyone benefits.

[drubin]

When you do learn to use VI you see how much power it has, and the reason for doing things...

Now if you are wanting an easy to use CLI editor try nano, It has less functionality and is supposedly easier to use (Never had the need for easier to use so haven't tried it out as much.)

edit If i had the choice of easy to use, Or functionality 99 times out of 100 I would choose functionality

[mssever]

1) Cripple is a pretty strong word - surely opening in a mode that the majority of users (I include regular users) would expect is desirable?
I think vim does that already. I'm far from a vim "pro." I only know a small subset of its features. But I think that if you knew vim better you'd probably modify your opinion. Perhaps cripple is too strong a word. Remember, vim is designed for those who know how to use it, not for newbies to easily learn. Although a good compromise would be to perhaps print a brief help message in the status line when starting.

Also, you haven't answered which insert mode it should default to.
2) Calling it "normal mode" is an arbitrary choice - there is no reason "normal mode" couldn't have been the mode which allows you to enter text.That's the term the vim documentation uses (though some people call it "command mode"). It's the normal mode in the sense that unless you're actually actively typing, you'll probably spend most of your time in that mode. In traditional vi, all you can do in insert mode is type, not edit. Vim does give you more freedom in insert mode, though with mouse support and support for the arrow keys.

3) You say "being kind to newbs is not one of Vim's goals". This brings up an interesting point - I sometimes feel that Linux software is designed to be cryptic, as if to be otherwise diminishes the programmer in some way (less "manly" if you will). That may be true in some cases. But often, UNIX software is designed for the author's ease of use. In the case of vim, though, it's designed to be broadly similar to vi. If it wasn't, it'd be widely rejected by people who are used to vi. Vi is rather venerable software. I believe that it first came out in the 1970s. And it largely follows design principles from that era. For example, people don't write modal programs anymore. But vi became popular, and any major changes to the way it works would disrupt its user base. And the people the vi (and later vim) authors care about are existing users. If newbies don't like vim, there are plenty of other editors available. In vim's case, being user-friendly has a lot to do with doing things in the way that its user base expects.

[bobbocanfly]

My "IDE" is gedit and Terminator. Works perfectly!

[drubin]

My "IDE" is gedit and Terminator. Works perfectly!

NICE pun! :) hehe hehe

[tdrusk]

Geany. it's nice, light, does everything I need. It reminds me of Jcreator only for linux.

[kaivalagi]

At work (MS only): VS2005/TFS2005..about to be VS2008/TFS2008
At home: Eclipse with PyDev (debugging) / Gedit

[LordKelvan]

mssever:

Yeah, it can be very tough to introduce any major interface changes when you've got a huge legacy to consider. Just ask Microsoft and their Ribbon UI - I absolutely love it (I would argue its one of the best things to come out of Microsoft), but people who've been using it daily for many years often are frustrated.

rubinboy:

I agree that Vim is very powerful - I argue that the power is not interwoven with the UI. That power could be presented in a more intuitive way.

Torijima:

I think you give the creators too much credit - I highly doubt the majority of the developers care one bit about intuitive UI's. To reiterate my previous comment, I think some of them ACTIVELY try to make programs non-intuitive, difficult and frustrating to use, as if to do otherwise would diminish them as programmers.

The problems with Vi/Vim are way too deep for me to do anything about it (i.e., the time commitment is too great). In any case, my personal opinion is that there are a whole host of GUI editors that have the power of Vi/Vim but with a very friendly and intuitive interface. To each his own.

And finally, you do bring up a valid point about the constraints of CLI programs. One particular point that comes to mind is a progress indicator (its not impossible I'm sure, just much more difficult then in a GUI program). However, in light of my first paragraph, I think the problem lies not only in the tools available, but also in the will of the programmers.

Cheers,
LK

[thenetduck]

Anjunta and Netbeans - Gedit is good when I am tired of clutter

[Torajima]

And finally, you do bring up a valid point about the constraints of CLI programs. One particular point that comes to mind is a progress indicator (its not impossible I'm sure, just much more difficult then in a GUI program). However, in light of my first paragraph, I think the problem lies not only in the tools available, but also in the will of the programmers.

Cheers,
LK

I've used curses to create progress indicators for CLI apps, so it's definitely not impossible! :)

When I talk about the limitations one faces when creating terminal applications, I mean:

Limited size of display.
Most terminal apps are optimized for 80 x 24 display, and 24 lines isn't much to work with.
Lack of available modifier keys (such as control-s).
These keys are often mapped to Terminal functions already, so you can't count on their availability, particularly in an app destined for multiple terminals and platforms.
Lack of mouse support
While it's possible with curses, it's a pain to implement (and may not work in all terminals)
Lack of drop-down menus
Again, possible with curses, but a pain to implement and uses up at least 1-2 lines of the display.


The end result is many CLI apps rely on keyboard shortcuts (sans modifier). Press 's' to save, 'l' to load, 'h' for help, etc. This works well for many apps, but when you need to input text, this creates problems... and the easiest solution is to have some sort of separate read/write mode.

The CLI app I'm currently working on pulls up a write mode when you press the [ENTER] key... not my first choice, but I need a lot of keyboard shortcuts for this particular app, so this is my only viable option.

I did come up with a different solution for my python editor (follow the link in my signature).

[mssever]

I think you give the creators too much credit - I highly doubt the majority of the developers care one bit about intuitive UI's. To reiterate my previous comment, I think some of them ACTIVELY try to make programs non-intuitive, difficult and frustrating to use, as if to do otherwise would diminish them as programmers.While that probably happens sometimes, I think that it's much more common for programmers to make something that's intuitive for them, and not know (or care) about what others think. Then again, there's also a fair amount of culture in the *nix world that dictates how things work, and that only the experienced understand.

The problems with Vi/Vim are way too deep for me to do anything about it (i.e., the time commitment is too great). In any case, my personal opinion is that there are a whole host of GUI editors that have the power of Vi/Vim but with a very friendly and intuitive interface. To each his own.The great thing about Linux is the huge amount of choice in this area. While I've been arguing in favor of vim (by the way, I like vim, but find vi to be too primitive for my tastes), it's true that there are quite a few tasks for which I prefer gedit. It's also true that I don't use vim in its default configuration. I enable, at the minimum, syntax highlighting, line numbering, autoindent, and mouse support. Also, I just recently learned how to use tabs (à la Firefox or gedit) in vim, so that will doubtless increase the instances where I choose vim over gedit.

[plastichero]

Netbeans for java seems good. tho I heavily worked with JBuilder.

[spadewarrior]

I was using DrPython but it seems quite unstable and crashed frequently. Now I just use scite and the command line.

[DraconPern]

VS 2008 (ditto 2005). It's the only IDE that can handle a few hundred megs of source code. I write and debug all my code in it then compile the same code on Windows, OS X, and Ubuntu. X Code is alright, but definition referencing is not very good. It is usable as a build manager and light debugging, but not code writing. Eclipse is lacking in a lot of areas. I have given up on it and have just used make files. It's that bad. By fixing bugs on Windows and OS X, I hope to never have to debug on Ubuntu...

[kaivalagi]

VS 2008 (ditto 2005). It's the only IDE that can handle a few hundred megs of source code. I write and debug all my code in it then compile the same code on Windows, OS X, and Ubuntu. X Code is alright, but definition referencing is not very good. It is usable as a build manager and light debugging, but not code writing. Eclipse is lacking in a lot of areas. I have given up on it and have just used make files. It's that bad. By fixing bugs on Windows and OS X, I hope to never have to debug on Ubuntu...

My problem with eclipse is not the functionality so much, but the sluggish performance...(edit: installed Ganymede and the performance is not an issue for me now, IMHO it is the best IDE so far in Linux land)

I hate to say it but VS2005, and more so VS2008, are great IDE's, better than anything on Linux AFAIK (putting aside the languages they support)...It would be great if eclipse (or any other ide on linux?) could be made better to compete with the performance and thoroughness of visual studio...

[Erdaron]

I really like IDLE (its being limited to Python is ok, since I only use this language). Its minimalist design was a little intimidating at first, but it works after a little while. And the integrated shell is great - if my code dumps, I can at least examine the state in which the variables were left and maybe figure out what went wrong. Its own debugger is not very useful, at least for me - I work with huge multi-dimensional datasets, and it can only faithfully present a few values.

For a beginner, when my code is usually limited to a few hundred lines, it's pretty awesome. (Somehow, the Linux version is slicker than the Windows version, too.)

I used Dr. Python, and it was neat, but very unstable. It wouldn't even save files after a while.

[jakonj]

since i started to write scripts and to code html much more then before i now use Geany (for x) and nano (usually nano since i love to write scripts in tilda :P ).

[extruct]

I vote for Eclipse.
Java in Eclipse, C/C++ CDT for Eclipse, PHP PDT for Eclipse, html/css/js WTP for Eclipse
:)

[emobrad]

I am useing Visual Basic.NET in my computer class. I thought programming would be so cool but it's really boring and agitating...

Well duh you're going to think that. It's Visual Basic... Visual Basic == Microsoft = boring


I personally use Geany for my C++ dev, and netbeans for Java. Once I get into Scheme I have Dr. Scheme installed so I can use that. Oh and in school I also use Qbasic lol

[kaivalagi]

I vote for Eclipse.
Java in Eclipse, C/C++ CDT for Eclipse, PHP PDT for Eclipse, html/css/js WTP for Eclipse
:)
+1
Not forgetting PyDev for Eclipse ;)

[mssever]

nano (usually nano since i love to write scripts in tilda :P ).
Are you familiar with joe? It's more featureful than nano, and much easier to learn than vim or emacs. Using nano is a bit like using Notepad on Windows.

[LaRoza]

Are you familiar with joe? It's more featureful than nano, and much easier to learn than vim or emacs. Using nano is a bit like using Notepad on Windows.

Using anything other than Vim is like using MS Word or notepad on Windows.

[mssever]

Using anything other than Vim is like using MS Word or notepad on Windows.
Real Programmers use Vim...

[LaRoza]

Real Programmers use Vim...

Yes.

Real programmers even use Vim when they are using Gedit.

(Embedded terminal... It looks funny, but it is so handy)

[mssever]

Yes.

Real programmers even use Vim when they are using Gedit.

(Embedded terminal... It looks funny, but it is so handy)
Never tried that. I usually keep my terminal pane too small to be practical for vim. But I frequently type <Esc>:w<Enter> in gedit.

[jimi_hendrix]

Yes.

(Embedded terminal... It looks funny, but it is so handy)

how do you work that?

vim (http://xkcd.com/378/)

[OutOfReach]

I use Geany, but I am trying out vim since there are so many people saying that it's good. :rolleyes:

[LaRoza]

I use Geany, but I am trying out vim since there are so many people saying that it's good. :rolleyes:

If you must know, for sysres I use gedit for most things, because I have to do a lot of file management and bzr stuff and the embedded terminal and file manager built in is very handy. I often use Vim in the embedded terminal though...

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2536/200809162206351680x1050lp6.th.png (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=200809162206351680x1050lp6.png)

[OutOfReach]

I too use gedit sometimes, but most of the time I prefer Geany. I do not know why, but it's great. :)

[LaRoza]

I too use gedit sometimes, but most of the time I prefer Geany. I do not know why, but it's great. :)

Gedit with its plugins is better than Geany I think. At least, it has more features and uses that one can chose to use.

[monkeyking]

I use Geany, but I am trying out vim since there are so many people saying that it's good. :rolleyes:

Vim is by far the fastest and most lightweight editor,
but it's still quite powerfull.
I wouldn't use anything else for doing fast changes to textfiles.
The indentation sucks though.


I think people that really loves vim, are the same that recommends daskeyboard http://images.moditory.com/reviews/DAS/keyboard2.jpg

[LaRoza]

I think people that really loves vim, are the same that recommends daskeyboard

You got me. I've been wanting one of those, but money is tight...

[mssever]

If you must know, for sysres I use gedit for most things, because I have to do a lot of file management and bzr stuff and the embedded terminal and file manager built in is very handy. I often use Vim in the embedded terminal though...

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2536/200809162206351680x1050lp6.th.png (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=200809162206351680x1050lp6.png)
Interesting. For sysres, I use gedit for most work because it's got a more convenient interface for switching between lots of files and I like the tab completion (if I'm primarily working on a single file, though, I'll usually use vim).

But I always have 3-5 terminal windows open on various workspaces for bzr work, file management, python console work (I only use gedit's embedded python console for basic listing stuff). And I'll still use vim from those terminals sometimes in preference to gedit.

[LaRoza]

Interesting. For sysres, I use gedit for most work because it's got a more convenient interface for switching between lots of files and I like the tab completion (if I'm primarily working on a single file, though, I'll usually use vim).

But I always have 3-5 terminal windows open on various workspaces for bzr work, file management, python console work (I only use gedit's embedded python console for basic listing stuff). And I'll still use vim from those terminals sometimes in preference to gedit.

That isn't my typical use of vim in gedit, just an example. Using vim is restricted to other files when using gedit (not the ones I am using gedit to edit).

[veloce]

Vim is by far the fastest and most lightweight editor,
but it's still quite powerfull.
I wouldn't use anything else for doing fast changes to textfiles.
The indentation sucks though.


Wanting a text editor that is "fast" and "lightweight" is so last millennium. :lolflag:

To have a future a text editor needs to be "intuitive" or at least "easy to learn". Processor power and memory are already non-binding constraints. Time available to learn is now the constraint.

[mssever]

Wanting a text editor that is "fast" and "lightweight" is so last millennium.Do you really start up Eclipse just to change one line in one file? Light and fast will always have a place--even if the definition of light changes over time.

To have a future a text editor needs to be "intuitive" or at least "easy to learn".Then how come many people still use vim and emacs, neither of which is easy to learn? Is it possible that they provide features that are worth the learning curve? There are some tasks where I believe that vim is hands-down the best tool for the job. I wouldn't want to lose that because someone wanted to take useful features away from me for the sake of learning ease. Basic text editors are easy to learn. Editors/IDEs with powerful features take effort to learn. I tried Netbeans once, and found it to be quite non-intuitive. I decided I could be more productive by going back to vim and gedit.

[veloce]

Do you really start up Eclipse just to change one line in one file? Light and fast will always have a place--even if the definition of light changes over time.

No I use gedit - I class that as intuitive (for basic editing). I'm also forced to use vim on the ubuntu server console.

Then how come many people still use vim and emacs,
How many of them learned to use those editors this millennium?

If you've already spent the time learning them, there is no reason to change.

My point is that they are remnants of a time that's gone. The definition of fast and light have both changed - and will continue to do so exponentially for the foreseeable future (not that that is really very far).

So I don't suggest existing users change, I just don't think they should proselytise!

[LaRoza]

How many of them learned to use those editors this millennium?

Many.


If you've already spent the time learning them, there is no reason to change.

There is a reason why people learn vim. It is standard. There is a reason why people work to use it well, because it works well.


My point is that they are remnants of a time that's gone.


Don't assume. You'll notice new software is buggy, whereas the old software isn't.

New software comes and goes, the old software is always there.

[scruff]

No I use gedit - I class that as intuitive (for basic editing). I'm also forced to use vim on the ubuntu server console.


How many of them learned to use those editors this millennium?

If you've already spent the time learning them, there is no reason to change.

My point is that they are remnants of a time that's gone. The definition of fast and light have both changed - and will continue to do so exponentially for the foreseeable future (not that that is really very far).

So I don't suggest existing users change, I just don't think they should proselytise!

I have tried tons of editors and all I use is VIM, Not because it is lightweight, but because the features it provides. If you work up a nice ~/.vimrc to suit your style and needs you can write code much faster than any GUI editor and your hands never need to leave the keyboard to move that carpal tunnel inducing mouse :)

I use it 8-10 hours a day at work and have for years and for me at least, it is definitely faster and more comfortable than anything else I've used.

Another good point already made was, it is a standard. I'm a *nix admin and any *nix machine, regardless of flavor or age, has vi(m) pre-installed.

[monkeyking]

I use it 8-10 hours a day at work and have for years and for me at least, it is definitely faster and more comfortable than anything else I've used.


The only reason I don't use vim is because of bad autoindentation.
Have you gotten used to not having this feature, or is there some very well hidden feature?

I've spend many many hours trying to get emacs style indentation in vim.

[mssever]

No I use gedit - I class that as intuitive (for basic editing). I'm also forced to use vim on the ubuntu server console.


How many of them learned to use those editors this millennium?Last millennium, I only knew the basics of vi. I mostly used joe. joe is a pretty good console-based editor that's easier to learn than vi(m). You should install it and try it out. These days, though, I need more than what joe can offer, so vim is a good choice.

I haven't spent the time to learn emacs, but those who use emacs like the fact that they can make it whatever they want it to be--so that over time it becomes the ideal editor for them. What other editor can make that claim? (It's also why some people observe that emacs is an OS that just happens to include a text editor. :))

My point is that they are remnants of a time that's gone.My point is that you're wrong about that.

So I don't suggest existing users change, I just don't think they should proselytise!So you think that we should recommend inferior tools instead? Vim isn't good for every situation, but there are many situations where it's the best editor available (though the Church of Emacs will disagree). What's wrong with recommending the best tool for the job?

[mssever]

The only reason I don't use vim is because of bad autoindentation.
Have you gotten used to not having this feature, or is there some very well hidden feature?

I've spend many many hours trying to get emacs style indentation in vim.
I've never used emacs' indentation, so I don't know how it compares, but I include this in my .vimrc:
set autoindent
set tabstop=4
set shiftwidth=4The main downside is that when I use a language such as Ruby where convention dictates 2-space indentation, vim tries to use 4 spaces still. But I just have to insert the proper indentation, and vim will follow it, so it's not much of a problem.

[LaRoza]

I haven't spent the time to learn emacs, but those who use emacs like the fact that they can make it whatever they want it to be--so that over time it becomes the ideal editor for them. What other editor can make that claim? (It's also why some people observe that emacs is an OS that just happens to include a text editor. :))

Emacs is a very interesting thing. Originally modules for another text editor, but it evolved into its own. However, it is a LISP machine and has all that power and flexibility.


What's wrong with recommending the best tool for the job?

It is too hard for *me* therefore it must not be worth learning. Or... I haven't taken time or initiative to learn it, therefore, it must not be worth learning.

[monkeyking]

set autoindent
set tabstop=4
set shiftwidth=4
I've gotten this far.
In emacs if you are on a given line, and press tab,
then you will automaticly be on the tab that reflects the scope in your program.
like

int main(){
while(1){
while(1)
// <- pressing tab here will not input extra tabs,
// but will place the curser on the correctindentation
}// <- pressing tab here will move the bracket to the correct indentation
}

This is really nice.

[veloce]

What a magnificent set of bites. Now if only I had meant that as a troll ... :lolflag:

Yes, unfortunately, vi(m) is a standard. It is also another barrier to entry into the linux / open source community.

My fundamental point is that there is no longer any technical reason for the power of vim to require its level of the arcane.


Side issue: "It's the best tool for the job, so why not recommend it?"

What is it the best tool *for*?

1. Making a quick change to a file: why not something like notepad?
2. Programming environment: why not an IDE?

Actually, judging by my actions, my "IDE of choice" is actually a spreadsheet. I have invested a lot of time in learning how to do complicated things with spreadsheets and will tend to load a spreadsheet as my first step in doing tasks that turn out to be programming tasks.

In fact, I can often do tasks with the spreadsheet quicker and easier than others can do with a more appropriate tool. That still doesn't make the spreadsheet the best tool for the job.

[monkeyking]

1. Making a quick change to a file: why not something like notepad?


I have X of cause, I'm typing this in firefox.
But most of what I do is in a terminal,
starting some lige gedit or similar will pop up,
and In the end, I'll end up using the mouse.
If I just load vim, I can stick with the keyboard.

[veloce]

I have X of cause, I'm typing this in firefox.
But most of what I do is in a terminal,
starting some lige gedit or similar will pop up,
and In the end, I'll end up using the mouse.
If I just load vim, I can stick with the keyboard.

Sorry, I was unclear, what I really meant was: I wish there was something like notepad (sans mouse) that I could use in a terminal. There is no technical constraint to this type of application - unfortunately, instead, we're stuck with vi(m).

Now if the source code to word for dos was available to be ported to linux ...

[escapee]

Sorry, I was unclear, what I really meant was: I wish there was something like notepad (sans mouse) that I could use in a terminal. There is no technical constraint to this type of application - unfortunately, instead, we're stuck with vi(m).

See nano or joe editors.

[scruff]

The only reason I don't use vim is because of bad autoindentation.
Have you gotten used to not having this feature, or is there some very well hidden feature?

I've spend many many hours trying to get emacs style indentation in vim.

I've only used emacs a tiny bit and suck at it. You can pretty much make vim do anything you want though. Here is what my ~/.vimrc looks like:


autocmd!

" FORMATTING
syntax on
set nowrap
set shiftwidth=2
set shiftround
set autoindent
set smartindent
set tabstop=2
set expandtab

" SEARCH STUFF
set incsearch
set hlsearch
set ignorecase
set smartcase
set showmatch " jump to matching brace/paren

" MISC
set wildmode=list:longest,full
set showmode
set showcmd
set nomodeline
"set list
"set listchars=tab:|
set pastetoggle=<F12> " F12 to not autoindent during pastes

" execute current buffer (python) with F2
map <f2> :w\|!python %<cr>

" FILE SPECIFIC
au BufReadPre *.py retab " fix annoying python whitespace issues!


There is much, much more that can be done. Google around for vimrc and see what you find!

[veloce]

It is too hard for *me* therefore it must not be worth learning. Or... I haven't taken time or initiative to learn it, therefore, it must not be worth learning.

You are assuming things about people's motivations which are not polite. Coming the other way:

Or: I learned it, why should the next generation (of linux newbies) get it any easier than me?

Or: I like my guru status, lets just keep a few barriers up so that we continue to be valued.

These wouldn't be polite either, would they?

[scruff]

You are assuming things about people's motivations which are not polite. Coming the other way:

Or: I learned it, why should the next generation (of linux newbies) get it any easier than me?

Or: I like my guru status, lets just keep a few barriers up so that we continue to be valued.

These wouldn't be polite either, would they?

Many of the statements you've made regarding vim are just plain absurd. Have you ever used Visual Studio Pro? Kdevelop? Ecplise? All of these IDE's have a pretty serious learning curve to become an advanced user that actually makes use of their features that were put there to make you more productive. VIM is no different. It requires some effort, but many programmers feel it is well worth the effort.

It has nothing to do with putting up barriers, being "l33t", or whatever. It has to do with productivity, comfort level, availability, and features.

[escapee]

veloce, your attitude has been hostile towards tried and true applications and their uselessness the entire time. You should expect the same attitude in return. VIm and emacs certainly still have their places, I've only recently learned VIm in the past year, and only touched emacs a few times. They really are very handy. On that note, I also use gedit, Kate, and Xcode. I feel they all have their times and places, and none of them are obsolete whatsoever.

[mssever]

Yes, unfortunately, vi(m) is a standard. It is also another barrier to entry into the linux / open source community.How is vim a barrier? No one has to use vim (at least if they're allowed to install software). Ubuntu comes with nano, the notepad of CLI text editors, and anyone can install joe. If you want, you can pretend that vim doesn't exist and get away with it.

My fundamental point is that there is no longer any technical reason for the power of vim to require its level of the arcane.
Um, have you explored vim macros? Have you tried the various editing keys (there are many of them, and probably nobody knows them all)? Some of the things vim can do would be quite difficult to do in, say, gedit without resorting to lots of mouse work and custom plugins.

1. Making a quick change to a file: why not something like notepad?Because when you need to make a quick change to a file, the last thing you need is for some GUI window to pop up. Besides, let's say you typed in the wrong variable name in file blah on line 258, and you've got a traceback pointing it to you. vim blah +258
# move to beginning of variable name, then
cwnew_name<esc>:x<enter>and you're done. Now, vim isn't the only program that can do that, but to accomplish such a task in an IDE would also require knowing how to do it.
2. Programming environment: why not an IDE?You're trading one program you have to learn for another.

Actually, judging by my actions, my "IDE of choice" is actually a spreadsheet. I have invested a lot of time in learning how to do complicated things with spreadsheets and will tend to load a spreadsheet as my first step in doing tasks that turn out to be programming tasks.

In fact, I can often do tasks with the spreadsheet quicker and easier than others can do with a more appropriate tool. That still doesn't make the spreadsheet the best tool for the job.If you can accomplish what you need in a spreadsheet more quickly and easily and maintainably (if appropriate) in a spreadsheet, then the spreadsheet is the best tool for the job--unless the reason the spreadsheet is quicker is that you don't know a better tool.

By the way: People sometimes accuse experienced users of being elitist because they do things in a way--or for reasons--that the accuser doesn't understand. That's silly. These forums have a disproportionate number of beginners. If we were elitist, we wouldn't be here. Besides, you don't have a shred of evidence that any of us who are defending vim are elitist.

[LaRoza]

You are assuming things about people's motivations which are not polite. Coming the other way:

Or: I learned it, why should the next generation (of linux newbies) get it any easier than me?

Or: I like my guru status, lets just keep a few barriers up so that we continue to be valued.


You stated some absurd things...

Vim is very simple and using it as an editor can be learned in a couple of minutes. It isn't always familiar though, but no interface is "intuitive" it is all learned.

I am not a guru.

I use vim because it is simple and powerful. I didn't struggle with learning it and it is in fact easier to use than a GUI application. All instructions for Vim can be expressed in plain text. No "click this", "go there", "blue triangle" things you get with GUI's and complex IDE's.

[veloce]

You stated some absurd things...

Vim is very simple and using it as an editor can be learned in a couple of minutes. It isn't always familiar though, but no interface is "intuitive" it is all learned.

I am not a guru.

I use vim because it is simple and powerful. I didn't struggle with learning it and it is in fact easier to use than a GUI application. All instructions for Vim can be expressed in plain text. No "click this", "go there", "blue triangle" things you get with GUI's and complex IDE's.

You are now quoting my replies out of context.

[LaRoza]

You are now quoting my replies out of context.

It is an unimportant subject anyway. It doesn't matter what one uses.

[jakonj]

Are you familiar with joe? It's more featureful than nano, and much easier to learn than vim or emacs. Using nano is a bit like using Notepad on Windows.

I just searched for joe... IT ooks just like nano.
I just need option to easy add my own syntax highlight since i edit some "exotic" files under linux (cnc programs, soon fortran calculations and so on...). Notepad is just fine but there is no damn syntax highlight that i need like h2o :) . Still tnx for the tip.

p.s. I tried to use vim... I like it beacuse there are sooooooooo many syntax highlight. Still i see nano as better (my 2 cents of course)

[mhh91]

for python,i use geany or Gedit

for java and C++,i use netbeans

[nikki93]

I used Code::Blocks a lot, and I must say, its very good. Especially for RAD wxWidgets developent with wxSmith.

Nowadays, I stick to Vim with loads of Vim plugins.

[meanburrito920]

Python and C/C++: gedit
Java: Eclipse

[eranif]

For my C++/C programming I use CodeLite IDE (http://codelite.org)

Eran

[techmarks]

For my C++/C programming I use CodeLite IDE (http://codelite.org)

Eran

Thanks that Codelite looks interesting, and I found it in the ports collection for FreeBSD so I'll have to try it out.

I've been using Mousepad, extremely bare bones.

[Asham]

Java: eclipse
Python: eclipse (pydev plugin)
.NET: visual studio

[Le-Froid]

I like Code::Blocks and MonoDevelop

[onyxbits]

I am really oldfashioned, so it's joe for me as editor and jbrownie as java compiler (http://www.onyxbits.de/jbrownie) (some tool I wrote for myself, since the JDK's javac takes way to long to start up and jikes seems to be a bit out of date).

[SeanHodges]

I am really oldfashioned, so it's joe for me as editor and jbrownie as java compiler (http://www.onyxbits.de/jbrownie) (some tool I wrote for myself, since the JDK's javac takes way to long to start up and jikes seems to be a bit out of date).

JBrownie looks pretty neat, I might give it a try at some point.

[hessiess]

vim

[sir4taye]

I use eclipse for Java, but at school I need to be able to print the console outputs. I'm having to copy paste into a text editor to print. This seems like an easy upgrade. Who would I talk to or contact?

[mssever]

I use eclipse for Java, but at school I need to be able to print the console outputs. I'm having to copy paste into a text editor to print. This seems like an easy upgrade. Who would I talk to or contact?
Just redirect the output to a file: ./your_program > outfile
# Or, if you want to see the output without opening the file...
./your_program | tee outfile

[namegame]

Right now, I primarily code in C/C++.

If I'm in Gnome, I use gedit.
If I'm in KDE, Kate or KDevelop.

[mcsimon]

NetBeans rocks my world:KS:KS

[kernelhaxor]

Eclipse ftw .. but sometimes Emacs too

[onyxbits]

JBrownie looks pretty neat, I might give it a try at some point.

:) Feedback would be welcome. After all, it's still v1.0 and I need some ideas of how to give the user better visual feedback (e.g. colorizing of compilermessages or indicators of sucessfull compilerruns).

[pxhai]

I mostly program in C/C++. On Windows, no IDE can beat Visual Studio. It's the best at what it does, it may cost you a lot, but it saves your time and many other things, including money :). On Linux, I think Code::Blocks is awesome with the cool debugging feature and a bit of code completion. And the project wizard is cool, too.
My second beloved language is Python. I'm sure many programmers feel happy with coding in Python like me. I prefer the good ol' IDLE. For a rich features Python IDE, Boa Constructor is excellent.
For Java, Ruby, PHP I use NetBeans. HTML and CSS are not my specialties though, so I don't know what designer is good.
Sometimes, coding Delphi may feel refreshing. Pascal is the first programming language I've ever learnt.

[JakZ]

I just can't get rid of Zend studio 5.5 for PHP development... I don't like the new eclipse based 6.1.0 version, it's too... eclipsy :(

[boz]

vim + make

With Java, Eclipse is sometimes necessary.

[rnodal]

Pencil and paper.
VIM
gedit.
Codeblocks.
eclipse every lunar eclipse.

-r

[harry666t]

Who needs freakin IDE

$ python
Python 2.5.2 (r252:60911, Sep 29 2008, 21:15:13)
[GCC 4.3.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> f=open('./file.py','w')
>>> f.write('print "Hello, world"')
>>> f.flush()
>>> import commands
>>> commands.getoutput("python ./file.py")
'Hello, world'
>>> ^D

I kid.

Emacs.

[rozan]

I started with Kdevelop but found quite difficult to use so i sifted to Anjuta for c/c++ which works perfectly fine.
And i use blufish for web development, havn't tried another stuffs for web development. any suggestion?

[jordilin]

Eclipse is awesome for Java, but I love Python and Vim ;)

[jordilin]

As for documentation in LaTeX, Kile actually rocks

[OutOfReach]

I admit, I've learned Vim, and it is awesome.

[kcode]

vim rocks

[sheto]

Actually any text editor will do the job but I prefer:

1) IDLE

2) Gedit

3) PSPad (on the Windows side)

[Amazona aestiva]

Code::Blocks

[sujoy]

emacs with slime,haskell-mode,python-mode,ropemacs,pymacs,jdee and lots other extensions, and yes ecb too :)

slime is such a beauty!!

[doktor_apokalypse]

emacs with slime,haskell-mode,python-mode,ropemacs,pymacs,jdee and lots other extensions, and yes ecb too :)

slime is such a beauty!!

yeah...slime rocks. it's really a joy to use.

Perl: gedit
C++: code::blocks
lisp: slime

[ashmew2]

For C++ , Code:Blocks for the win :D

[jimi_hendrix]

vim is for real programmers :)

[Shin_Gouki2501]

eclipse for Java
and recently netbeans for Scala