thing ubuntu must have to be an Windows Alternative (for real)

[crysis]

guys look at the bright sides of windows (there r plenty) and learn from it, instead of blindly going your own way.

1. auto mounting volumes (including fat and ntfs) as they become available with write permission. no more fiddling with terminals to mount a volume and volume label support just like windows. ask a windows user if they ever need to mount anything or even know something about it. there are manual mounting option but most people never need it.

2. For god's sake make software installation easier like windows where u just have to double click. sure synaptics and add/remove works. but not all people have high speed broadband and in every place. and those of who r trying to flame me on this just know that synaptics looks more like a workaround that a real solution. we need a easy and standard way for installing software (like exe/msi file in windows or OSX ) not on the mercy of some good guys making and putting them on synaptics repos. that way we can be sure that each and every software available in this planet u can install it in no time. even from offline and with out worrying about dependencies and libraries.

yes i couldn't find every thing on synaptics and not everything on synaptics worked (most worked BTW). i appreciate the people volunteered in synaptics but somebody should figure something better. at least make it like OSX (mac).( its a modified form of Unix BTW)

3. Hardware configuration and installing/uninstalling is a real pain in ubuntu. it may work after hours of internet browsing downloading/compiling and do-it-yourself computer engineering graduation !!

dont believe me? try installing intel/ati/nvidia driver from windows and then from ubuntu. try do that in offline. count your clicks keystrokes and text readings.
Oh not to mention u get far fewer driver options in ubuntu and some of them just dont work. (video adjustment in totem after installing nvidia )

remember how easy it is to install/uninstall, enable/disable and in
some case get to hardware specific options through dialogue boxes on device manager in windows, without making you a computer graduate. remember how its represent the harware to you so that its easy to do what you want, not by acctual hardware location or configaration. well ubuntu better have those.

4. make X smart. ever tried to upgrade graphics card under linux? dont do it unless u are an expert. make X runing with a generic driver in case it dont find any graphics card or have some faults, Somthing like safemode in windows.

5. Bad bad hardware support. for those of you want to ditch windows listening all those hypes, think again. its already difficult to make them work (see #2 and #3 problem). but when you do, it just dont work as good as windows/mac. one example my HP leserjet (by the way, one of the best supported vendors in linux) works in linux but i miss all the driver features found in windows. i mean if you just need a print then i guess every printers in the world are equal, right? im not even starting to talk about my scanners and other gears.

6. Add Graphical network management/setup, somthing like My network places in xp or vista with appropriate and logical wizards and dialogue boxes.(Hint: try setting up pppoe in windows and then ubuntu, unless u know the exact terminal command there no clue on how and where to to it). in ubuntu i dont have any clue which network im connected to, or whether its working (in windows its a snap, right on your system tray with balloon info and flashing lights).

7. Windows got GUI based housekeeping tools like msconfig,services.msc, defrager, regedit, etc. ubuntu better have its own housekeeping tools with GUI.

8. Sure ordinary people likes command line. they look hot in movies too. but not while they are busy working on their pc. its like when you drive you car you are not interested in how it works, not until you go to your garage. so make ubuntu , more GUI based and easy to use and more automated.

9. this is not a ubuntu problem, but what really bothered me in using ubuntu is the lack of good software. ( a good download manager like flashget, bitcomet, Windows media player 11 ( MS rocks here, i dont use DRM so it rocks 4 me) amarok is somewhat close but not quite at it in manging files and library. and Winamp. havent found ubuntu version/alternative of mp3tag (cant live without it). tried very hard to find winrar or 7zip alternative, all i found is crap and good CLI, (sorry GUI is a must), oh, no mater what they say i really miss office 2007 (best piece of work since office 97)
powerdvd 5, rocks in dvd viewing with proprietary features. also miss FFDSHOW very much, yahoo/msn messenger (comon guys), Nero burning rom (so far havn't found anything like it even in windows), nero recode 2 (best and painless AVC encoder (havn't found anything like it even in windows too), a good backup program ( in linux most i found are crap) i now use nero back it up, Zonealarm firewall, easy to use ( i dont wana read book when i am in really bad mood and in hurry with big disaster up my ***) at the same time powerful data recovery software with GUI like Getdataback or r-tools . ok ok. i'll stop here.....may be enough for today.

salute to firefox, GIMP, Gparted, i found these softwares in ubuntu excelent.

really looking forward to have ubuntu fixing these issues in future. (nobody wants to pay 400 bucks to run an os if they can get something similar for free, but the trick is be similar or even better [os x?] )

[DrMega]

1. Mine does that by default on both my machines which are both dual boot Ubuntu 7.10 and Windows

2. Synaptic saves you having to remember where you left the installation disk, or saw the download file. If you do have a file locally, just double click a .deb file (like windows msi sort of) and off it goes (after asking you first).

3. Again in 7.10, no issues here. All my hardware was detected and the system even prompted me to ask if I wanted to install the proprietary display driver, to which I answered Yes, and off it went.

4. Haven't tried in 7.10, did it in Dapper (6.06) and I have to agree, it was a pain in the backside. That said, it was a pain uninstalling every trace of the ATI driver to make way for the nVidia driver in Windows too.

5. Not Linux's fault. All my hardware works except my TV tuner, which frankly barely works in Windows (the drivers keep causing a BSOD). The hardware manufacturers won't waste money developing Linux versions of their drivers until Linux gets a bigger market share. That market share is growing rapidly, and more and more hardware manufacturers are waking up to this.

6. Agreed. This would make Linux interesting to a wider audience (thus helping with point 6). There are some projects going down this route. Rome wasn't built in a day though.

7. Isn't this the same point as 6?

8. Agreed, but again, same point as 6.

9. Most of the apps you mention have a multimedia theme. It is comparatively recent that Linux has started to move into this area, but it is moving very quickly. My media centre runs Ubuntu. There are excellent apps to do most if not all the things you mentioned, but in some areas, they are still at fairly early versions.

Linux is not for everybody, as Windows isn't. I prefer Ubuntu over Windows, but that's just me. I think you are trying to compare it to Windows, rather than seeing that although some things are different, it doesn't mean they are inferior.

[karellen]

guys look at the bright sides of windows (there r plenty) and learn from it, instead of blindly going your own way.

1. auto mounting volumes (including fat and ntfs) as they become available with write permission. no more fiddling with terminals to mount a volume and volume label support just like windows. ask a windows user if they ever need to mount anything or even know something about it. there are manual mounting option but most people never need it.

2. For god's sake make software installation easier like windows where u just have to double click. sure synaptics and add/remove works. but not all people have high speed broadband and in every place. and those of who r trying to flame me on this just know that synaptics looks more like a workaround that a real solution. we need a easy and standard way for installing software (like exe/msi file in windows or OSX ) not on the mercy of some good guys making and putting them on synaptics repos. that way we can be sure that each and every software available in this planet u can install it in no time. even from offline and with out worrying about dependencies and libraries.

yes i couldn't find every thing on synaptics and not everything on synaptics worked (most worked BTW). i appreciate the people volunteered in synaptics but somebody should figure something better. at least make it like OSX (mac).( its a modified form of Unix BTW)

3. Hardware configuration and installing/uninstalling is a real pain in ubuntu. it may work after hours of internet browsing downloading/compiling and do-it-yourself computer engineering graduation !!

dont believe me? try installing intel/ati/nvidia driver from windows and then from ubuntu. try do that in offline. count your clicks keystrokes and text readings.
Oh not to mention u get far fewer driver options in ubuntu and some of them just dont work. (video adjustment in totem after installing nvidia )

remember how easy it is to install/uninstall, enable/disable and in
some case get to hardware specific options through dialogue boxes on device manager in windows, without making you a computer graduate. remember how its represent the harware to you so that its easy to do what you want, not by acctual hardware location or configaration. well ubuntu better have those.

4. make X smart. ever tried to upgrade graphics card under linux? dont do it unless u are an expert. make X runing with a generic driver in case it dont find any graphics card or have some faults, Somthing like safemode in windows.

5. Bad bad hardware support. for those of you want to ditch windows listening all those hypes, think again. its already difficult to make them work (see #2 and #3 problem). but when you do, it just dont work as good as windows/mac. one example my HP leserjet (by the way, one of the best supported vendors in linux) works in linux but i miss all the driver features found in windows. i mean if you just need a print then i guess every printers in the world are equal, right? im not even starting to talk about my scanners and other gears.

6. Add Graphical network management/setup, somthing like My network places in xp or vista with appropriate and logical wizards and dialogue boxes.(Hint: try setting up pppoe in windows and then ubuntu, unless u know the exact terminal command there no clue on how and where to to it). in ubuntu i dont have any clue which network im connected to, or whether its working (in windows its a snap, right on your system tray with balloon info and flashing lights).

7. Windows got GUI based housekeeping tools like msconfig,services.msc, defrager, regedit, etc. ubuntu better have its own housekeeping tools with GUI.

8. Sure ordinary people likes command line. they look hot in movies too. but not while they are busy working on their pc. its like when you drive you car you are not interested in how it works, not until you go to your garage. so make ubuntu , more GUI based and easy to use and more automated.

9. this is not a ubuntu problem, but what really bothered me in using ubuntu is the lack of good software. ( a good download manager like flashget, bitcomet, Windows media player 11 ( MS rocks here, i dont use DRM so it rocks 4 me) amarok is somewhat close but not quite at it in manging files and library. and Winamp. havent found ubuntu version/alternative of mp3tag (cant live without it). tried very hard to find winrar or 7zip alternative, all i found is crap and good CLI, (sorry GUI is a must), oh, no mater what they say i really miss office 2007 (best piece of work since office 97)
powerdvd 5, rocks in dvd viewing with proprietary features. also miss FFDSHOW very much, yahoo/msn messenger (comon guys), Nero burning rom (so far havn't found anything like it even in windows), nero recode 2 (best and painless AVC encoder (havn't found anything like it even in windows too), a good backup program ( in linux most i found are crap) i now use nero back it up, Zonealarm firewall, easy to use ( i dont wana read book when i am in really bad mood and in hurry with big disaster up my ***) at the same time powerful data recovery software with GUI like Getdataback or r-tools . ok ok. i'll stop here.....may be enough for today.

salute to firefox, GIMP, Gparted, i found these softwares in ubuntu excelent.

really looking forward to have ubuntu fixing these issues in future. (nobody wants to pay 400 bucks to run an os if they can get something similar for free, but the trick is be similar or even better [os x?] )

while you have some valid points, if you need all those windows-specific apps and so on, why do you talk about Linux in the first place instead of simply using Windows (which obviously suits your needs much better) ?

[Samhain13]

On point 2: It just takes getting used to. Besides, even if one doesn't have broadband connection, how many applications are there that require up to 300MB of downloading? There are some, but like in Ubuntu, there are many essential applications that come pre-installed and for regular computer users, these applications will suffice for their everyday use.

On point 3: most Windows users don't even know that such a stage in OS installation exists because it's all been done by the techs in the computer store where they bought their machines. We only know of this difficulty because many, if not most, Linux users install our own OSes thus going through a possibly hard time configuring it for the hardware.

If GNU/Linux was an option provided by computer stores as a pre-installed OS, a buyer shouldn't go through that configuration process as well.

On point 4: yes, I've tried upgrading my graphics card just last November (using 7.10). I didn't have a problem-- at least, not an OS-related one. But then both cards required the same driver (nVidia). I don't know what could have happened if I changed brands though.

[azimuth]

Having better things to do than refute all of your points, I'll just take the first. Not only does 7.10 find and mount All of my Window partitions (NTFS, FAT and FAT32) on all drives, fixed and removable, it allows me to read, write and where appropriate even exicute files on those drives. Windows in it's arrogance, doesn't even acknowlege the existance of any partition or drive that isn't native to it.

[wolfen69]

do yourself a favor and stay with windows.

btw, me and all my friends that use linux havnt experienced any of the problems that you talk about. must be you.

[StarsAndBars14]

ask a windows user if they ever need to mount anything

Do that and they'll look at you like you're crazy, for reasons I can't well describe here. ;)

[aysiu]

Another desktop readiness thread? I'm moving this to Recurring Discussions.

[wolfen69]

another thing. do you think millions of people would be happily using linux if everyone found it to be the way you describe? i think not. everyday, school systems and governments are switching over to linux. please, it is windows that is not ready for the average person. they just dont know they have a choice.

i fix windows machines for a living, so i know all about the differences between windows and linux. i see customers all the time that cant even install a simple program without difficulty. there is a reason why people call me for help. windows is NOT intuitive at all when it comes to troubleshooting and fixing. all most people know is how to surf and check email. so to say to me that linux wouldnt suit them is ridiculous. once people get used to linux, they find it much easier to use without the hassles of spyware, virii, defragging, cleaning, etc.

just because you have problems with linux doesnt mean the vast majority do.

[aysiu]

Read this:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CriticismFAQ

Then read this:
What's better than whining on the forums? Making a difference. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=78741)

[SunnyRabbiera]

Here we go again


1. auto mounting volumes (including fat and ntfs) as they become available with write permission. no more fiddling with terminals to mount a volume and volume label support just like windows. ask a windows user if they ever need to mount anything or even know something about it. there are manual mounting option but most people never need it.

auto mounting has never been an issue for me, in fact volumes mount about the same way.
Now mounting windows partitions, that sometimes can be a pain depending on how your system is set up...

2. For god's sake make software installation easier like windows where u just have to double click. sure synaptics and add/remove works. but not all people have high speed broadband and in every place. and those of who r trying to flame me on this just know that synaptics looks more like a workaround that a real solution. we need a easy and standard way for installing software (like exe/msi file in windows or OSX ) not on the mercy of some good guys making and putting them on synaptics repos. that way we can be sure that each and every software available in this planet u can install it in no time. even from offline and with out worrying about dependencies and libraries.
yes i couldn't find every thing on synaptics and not everything on synaptics worked (most worked BTW). i appreciate the people volunteered in synaptics but somebody should figure something better. at least make it like OSX (mac).( its a modified form of Unix BTW)


Synaptic is a great piece of softare though, plus there are ways to download packages from the net and install them in a similar fashion to windows.
Now yes we do need a better way of packaging, there I agree so you dont have to worry about dependencies... but to be honest packaging now in linux is a lot better then it used to be, especially debian based systems that have made the installation of packages near painless.
its just a matter of learning something new, if you dont like anything new you should have stuck with windows

3. Hardware configuration and installing/uninstalling is a real pain in ubuntu. it may work after hours of internet browsing downloading/compiling and do-it-yourself computer engineering graduation !!

dont believe me? try installing intel/ati/nvidia driver from windows and then from ubuntu. try do that in offline. count your clicks keystrokes and text readings.
Oh not to mention u get far fewer driver options in ubuntu and some of them just dont work. (video adjustment in totem after installing nvidia )

remember how easy it is to install/uninstall, enable/disable and in
some case get to hardware specific options through dialogue boxes on device manager in windows, without making you a computer graduate. remember how its represent the harware to you so that its easy to do what you want, not by acctual hardware location or configaration. well ubuntu better have those.


well the thing you have to remember is that most hardware IS FOR WINDOWS ONLY.
we are very fortunate when every so often some company works in our favor like nvidia, hp and intel.
however we are still at a loss as decent binary installer support for us is low right now.
trust me I know it can be frustrating but really things will get better... patience is a virtue.


4. make X smart. ever tried to upgrade graphics card under linux? dont do it unless u are an expert. make X runing with a generic driver in case it dont find any graphics card or have some faults, Somthing like safemode in windows.

well technically there is a "safe mode" as you put it... its called a terminal ;)

5. Bad bad hardware support. for those of you want to ditch windows listening all those hypes, think again. its already difficult to make them work (see #2 and #3 problem). but when you do, it just dont work as good as windows/mac. one example my HP leserjet (by the way, one of the best supported vendors in linux) works in linux but i miss all the driver features found in windows. i mean if you just need a print then i guess every printers in the world are equal, right? im not even starting to talk about my scanners and other gears.

again I will point out that most hardware IS MADE FOR WINDOWS ONLY.
If you got to blame anyone blame HP or ATI, Logitech and the six million other companies who support windows then linux (though HP does give us drivers, most of the drivers are ported to us within a short period of time)

6. Add Graphical network management/setup, somthing like My network places in xp or vista with appropriate and logical wizards and dialogue boxes.(Hint: try setting up pppoe in windows and then ubuntu, unless u know the exact terminal command there no clue on how and where to to it). in ubuntu i dont have any clue which network im connected to, or whether its working (in windows its a snap, right on your system tray with balloon info and flashing lights).

well here is where ubuntu is lacking and not linux in general, truth be told there are distros that have decent network managers that work much like windows (mandriva comes to mind)
I do hope a better network manager makes its way to ubuntu as mandriva and a few others whoop its butt in this area.

7. Windows got GUI based housekeeping tools like msconfig,services.msc, defrager, regedit, etc. ubuntu better have its own housekeeping tools with GUI.

well defragging isnt needed on a linux based system and there is ways to make sure space is not wasted... there is no need to edit registries, most of that is taken care of for you


8. Sure ordinary people likes command line. they look hot in movies too. but not while they are busy working on their pc. its like when you drive you car you are not interested in how it works, not until you go to your garage. so make ubuntu , more GUI based and easy to use and more automated.
well the good news about ubuntu is that its becomming less and less reliant on CLI, in fact this area has come a long way in the little time I have spent on linux...
trust me the future on this front is looking good.

9. this is not a ubuntu problem, but what really bothered me in using ubuntu is the lack of good software. ( a good download manager like flashget, bitcomet, Windows media player 11 ( MS rocks here, i dont use DRM so it rocks 4 me) amarok is somewhat close but not quite at it in manging files and library. and Winamp. havent found ubuntu version/alternative of mp3tag (cant live without it). tried very hard to find winrar or 7zip alternative, all i found is crap and good CLI, (sorry GUI is a must), oh, no mater what they say i really miss office 2007 (best piece of work since office 97)
powerdvd 5, rocks in dvd viewing with proprietary features. also miss FFDSHOW very much, yahoo/msn messenger (comon guys), Nero burning rom (so far havn't found anything like it even in windows), nero recode 2 (best and painless AVC encoder (havn't found anything like it even in windows too), a good backup program ( in linux most i found are crap) i now use nero back it up, Zonealarm firewall, easy to use ( i dont wana read book when i am in really bad mood and in hurry with big disaster up my ***) at the same time powerful data recovery software with GUI like Getdataback or r-tools . ok ok. i'll stop here.....may be enough for today.

You call windows media player good software??
are you on drugs?
Hey linux has got a lot of good software, you just dont look hard enough...
need a good audio player?
Hey I think amarok is great, it just gets time getting used to.
Video players? try smplayer, kaffiene, totem, xine... all good in thier own way.
need a file zip program? we got that too....
instant messanger, thers pidgin...
just look around.
as for office 2007... yeh you must be on drugs or something, as i really dont like it.

as for praising proprietary junk, dude you are so using the wrong OS...

[wolfen69]

if you you are so inclined to use it and say its good because of its "proprietary" value then just go back to windows and leave us alone...
seriously

you tell 'em sunny!

[rubenvb]

I don't know what's wrong with you people (no offence). How come 95% of pc users still run windows? It's not because Linux is easier or better. I agree there are many many aspects of Linux (and now I'm narrowing it down to a few distro's, mostly ubuntu-based) that are good: package management (yes I know, Debian), compiz fusion, open source ... but the Linux developer community has to have their noses pressed on the issues that still plague Linux, among others the geekiness.
For example, Wine: why doesn't someone save all the right configurations and library replacements when they figure out how a game works and make a profiling system so that other users can easily load the right config for a specific game? This concept really needs to be widely adopted, and maybe it isn't clear, Windows has this built-in. With, everything that doesn't fit in these preconfigured "profiles" (hardware, software installations..) you're basically screwed in Windows, but that's another strength of Linux (if you know how!!!!): customizability.... i can go on for ages about pros and cons, but I'll leave that for another time.

[SunnyRabbiera]

I don't know what's wrong with you people (no offence). How come 95% of pc users still run windows? It's not because Linux is easier or better. I agree there are many many aspects of Linux (and now I'm narrowing it down to a few distro's, mostly ubuntu-based) that are good: package management (yes I know, Debian), compiz fusion, open source ... but the Linux developer community has to have their noses pressed on the issues that still plague Linux, among others the geekiness.
For example, Wine: why doesn't someone save all the right configurations and library replacements when they figure out how a game works and make a profiling system so that other users can easily load the right config for a specific game? This concept really needs to be widely adopted, and maybe it isn't clear, Windows has this built-in. With, everything that doesn't fit in these preconfigured "profiles" (hardware, software installations..) you're basically screwed in Windows, but that's another strength of Linux (if you know how!!!!): customizability.... i can go on for ages about pros and cons, but I'll leave that for another time.

again I point out
games are mainly made for WINDOWS ONLY.
and wine can only do so much

[crysis]

if you you are so inclined to use it and say its good because of its "proprietary" value then just go back to windows and leave us alone...seriously

first of all i never said any thing about loving proprietary. frankly i don't care about proprietary, non-proprietary, open source, closed source. to me they are just some software development strategy that developers wish to follow depending on there nature of their business, type of the software, competition, budget etc.. i just examine the finished product just like you do when you do shopping. in windows i use powerdvd 5 which has some scaling and color correction features that makes dvd looks great. i just i havn't found linux dvd players providing that good picture and scaling feature. i dont have any problem if you do and let me know.

i am not sure why you want to live alone. ;)

Having better things to do than refute all of your points, I'll just take the first. Not only does 7.10 find and mount All of my Window partitions (NTFS, FAT and FAT32) on all drives, fixed and removable, it allows me to read, write and where appropriate even exicute files on those drives. Windows in it's arrogance, doesn't even acknowlege the existance of any partition or drive that isn't native to it.

Drives mount for me too. but its not automated. the ubuntu setup program detects your drive configuration and makes fstab entry during installation. so it looks like ubuntu mounts your drive automatically.

try changing the drive configuration. change master/slave or primary/secondary then do a reboot to see if they mount automatically. again try adding more hardrive with multiple partition or add more partition. then see if they mount automatically. try that and do yourself a favor. (BTW i use 7.04 in my machine)

in windows these are not a problem as the os does all the mounting automatically. even mounting ext3 in windows is just as easy. with a few clicks !!





Again i dont hate synaptic. i love it. but going online is not always possible and its way slow. and deb files dont work always. often they require other dependencies. general people expect deb file to work like exe/msi file in windows. so alternative offline option is big timesaver and its backup & distribution friendly also.
and last but not the least how about introducing Drag n drop Software installation like OSX? its very easy and convenient for wider range of people.

i dont know about you guys but in my country my 96kbps line cost about US $ 25. with avg people use 32kbps. 1 mbps line costs more than a T1 line in USA. still wanna use synoptics here? be my guest.

[tehet]

So when can we expect your patches?

[Nano Geek]

Just to make something clear. It's not that we don't want most of those things, it's just that so many people come here and tell us, "This is was Linux needs. "This is necessary for Linux to beat Windows."
But we can't do anything about it. We aren't the coders and you are just wasting your breath telling us.

So, while I'm sure you meant well, it isn't necessary.