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edd07
January 3rd, 2008, 08:56 PM
Hello. I know it hasn't been officially released yet, but I wanted to know if any of you have tried the betas or RC's and what you think of it. Is it really THAT good?

Thanks

-grubby
January 3rd, 2008, 09:12 PM
I have to say that so far with my experiences from RC1 and RC2 that it's horrid!

maniacmusician
January 3rd, 2008, 09:35 PM
It depends on how you look at it. It's exactly in the state that the developers say its in; unfinished with a bunch of work left to do on it. They're finishing up the work on all the backends now, which is basically stuff that you can't really see as an end user unless you know what you're looking for. At midnight tonight is the freeze for KDE 4.0, which means that any code uploaded after midnight won't make it into 4.0, except for fixing errors in the code which prevent it from building correctly.

A lot of the stuff that the end-user can see is slated to be finished by 4.1; this means Plasma, and I think Amarok 2, KOffice 2, and other things as well. The time between 4.0 and 4.1 is to finish up the things that I mentioned above, and hopefully get a lot of users to submit usability and code bug reports.

So to answer your question, I wouldn't use KDE4 as my primary system right now due to its unfinished state, but if I have time, I will install it and try to help with bug reports and such. I like the work that's been done for it, but that's because I've kept track of its progress, and I'm coming at it with the understanding that a lot of the user-visible stuff isn't yet complete.

joe.turion64x2
January 3rd, 2008, 09:43 PM
Haven't tried it yet (come across a system with it installed for example), because since I am a GNOME user I am not really interested in 'haunting' it down prior to schedule.

Joe.

Erunno
January 3rd, 2008, 10:40 PM
IThey're finishing up the work on all the backends now, which is basically stuff that you can't really see as an end user unless you know what you're looking for.

Akonadi (PIM) and Decibel (real-time communication) haven't been finished either (beside Plasma) so hopefully those missing frameworks will be introduced with 4.1. It means though that we'll have to wait at least until 4.2 before all applications use them unless some developers work with the development versions (which some already do actually).

mrgnash
January 3rd, 2008, 10:41 PM
I have to say that so far with my experiences from RC1 and RC2 that it's horrid!

I concur. And it's not just the overwhelming amount of bugs, either; the whole thing is just a complete mess.

a12ctic
January 3rd, 2008, 10:42 PM
Tried RC1+RC2, not impressed at all. It'll probably be better once distributions are built around it and 4.1 is released, right now it just seems liek a buggy, unfinished mess.

miggols99
January 3rd, 2008, 11:11 PM
I'm using it right now :) Using the latest SVN version. When it is released I will just use the regular packages (I'm using Arch, so I'm assuming the KDE4 packages will replace the KDE3 ones). I can tell you now that the RC2 is very unstable. The actual release will be much more beautiful, stable and feature packed. If you want it to have it stable and all native apps (no KDE3 apps) I recommend you wait until KDE 4.1, which will be released later this year.

billgoldberg
January 3rd, 2008, 11:19 PM
I tried RC2 and it's horrible.

It still feels buggy, the "start" menu is useless/crappy and the panel at the bottom is huge. It's not usable on a laptop because it takes up to much of the screen.

I however like the stardard widgets.

LaRoza
January 3rd, 2008, 11:35 PM
I'm sure once it is finished it will be pretty.

maniacmusician
January 4th, 2008, 08:18 AM
Akonadi (PIM) and Decibel (real-time communication) haven't been finished either (beside Plasma) so hopefully those missing frameworks will be introduced with 4.1. It means though that we'll have to wait at least until 4.2 before all applications use them unless some developers work with the development versions (which some already do actually).
Yes, that's true.I think I read a post on Planet KDE recently saying that Mailody was already using Akonadi. I haven't been hearing much about Decibel at all.

marsmissionaries
January 4th, 2008, 08:22 AM
KDE 4 is actually in a great state right now. The kde to be released in a few days is VERY stable.

The panel has been changed to a new design, it's still big but it's not that bad.

When people finally see what is being released they will know that it really is better. the RC's were tagged at times when it wasn't that great. konqueror made a huge turn around from RC2 to now. it's much better.

cawill
January 4th, 2008, 09:19 AM
The panel has been changed to a new design, it's still big but it's not that bad.


Are there any screenshots of this? and can you now edit the panel / change the look of it as much as you can do with the kde3 panel?

GeneralZod
January 4th, 2008, 09:24 AM
Are there any screenshots of this? and can you now edit the panel / change the look of it as much as you can do with the kde3 panel?

Unfortunately, adding user-visible configuration to the panel was something that didn't make it in in time for tagging - rather annoying, as it would probably have taken only a few hours or so for someone who knew Plasma well, and would have improved the reception of KDE4.0.0 quite a lot.

cawill
January 4th, 2008, 09:38 AM
Unfortunately, adding user-visible configuration to the panel was something that didn't make it in in time for tagging - rather annoying, as it would probably have taken only a few hours or so for someone who knew Plasma well, and would have improved the reception of KDE4.0.0 quite a lot.

Yeah its a bit annoying, would anyone release a custom version of the panel with all those features sometime after kde 4.0 is released?

GeneralZod
January 4th, 2008, 09:42 AM
Yeah its a bit annoying, would anyone release a custom version of the panel with all those features sometime after kde 4.0 is released?

This falls under my "Can't promise anything, but I wouldn't be at all surprised" category :)

bufsabre666
January 4th, 2008, 09:42 AM
ive tried it and it look really really nice, it will be a big thing in getting more people to ubuntu cause its not system heavy, and it looks amazing

but even still gnome is still my preference, cause i dont want something that looks like windows

escobar_
January 4th, 2008, 09:46 AM
I tried RC 1 and RC 2, found them both very heavy and laggy. Maybe I'll give it a shot when 4.0 is released.

anaconda
January 4th, 2008, 09:56 AM
I tried one of the RC:s and wasn't very impressed.
But I cant wait the new Koffice2 and Krita.

I think I will be moving to KDE after the release. I love Gnome, but most programs I use are from KDE, and KDE programs just start so much faster in KDE.

xen
January 4th, 2008, 11:32 AM
I tried the RC2 packages and I wasn't particularly impressed. They are rushing for a release but I feel they should just take as long as it needs and release it when they're done.

For now I would appreciate KDE3 apps built with QT4 simply for the speed/performance improvements. I know this isn't a simple case of re-compiling.

Anyway I'm excited by the whole project, and the developers are doing an excellent job!

I'll probably wait for 4.1 when things will be smoothed over!

luca.b
January 4th, 2008, 07:13 PM
You can't really do "when it's done" after a hiatus of two years, because otherwise you won't be able to get the developers into release mode. It has been stated before many times but I'll reiterate: KDE4 is not KDE 4.0. Also there will be point releases (4.0.1, etc) to fix bugs and the like. KDE 4.1 hopefully will take less than 4.0 to come out.

To be back on topic, I have been using KDE 4.0 since post-RC2 regularly. I like it so far: and remember that until last week building in release mode (i.e. without debug information) was not possible. I have built everything in release mode and it looks much faster than earlier (I haven't tested yet a full session, I mostly use it inside a nested X server).

TheMono
January 4th, 2008, 09:23 PM
KDE 4.1 hopefully will take less than 4.0 to come out.

It can hardly take longer than the full development cycle of KDE 4.0.

luca.b
January 4th, 2008, 09:55 PM
Aaron J. Seigo has written a nice post (http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/01/talking-bluntly.html) on clearing up some memes & myths about KDE 4.0 and the future of the 4 and 3.5 branches.

swoll1980
January 4th, 2008, 11:05 PM
WE were debating this yesterday and came to the consenous that they should not call this an rc, but were perhaps trolling for beta testers, because this thing is not even close to being finished witch is what the name rc useualy refers to

lzfy
January 4th, 2008, 11:11 PM
I will switch to KDE4 if it runs stable on my system. I'm impressed with wat i've seen so far.

Btw. can someone post a screenshot of the most recent build of KDE4?

danf_1979
January 5th, 2008, 09:02 AM
I'm using debian's experimental KDE4. It is usable, but it has some rough edges:

1) Plasma panel's system tray is incompatible with some non-kde applications (for example pidgin).

2) kdm-kde4 needs a lot of polishing. It doesn't work for me. For some reason my keyboard stopped responding everytime kdm started. I had to go into single user and uninstall it.

3) K menu needs to be better. It is usable and confortable after some time using it, but I think the kde guys can do a lot better than that.

4) The desktop (icon area) is not very usable right now. You can place icons in two ways:
- Add a new widget from the desktop itself
- Add a new icon (program/icon) from the K menu

5) Gtk apps look ugly, and (I think) there is no way to make them look better. I haven't found anything like gtk-qt-engine for KDE4.

6) Dolphin is ok. Somehow, kubuntu's dolphin is different to the one I have used here. I like it.

7) There is no burning software yet in KDE4. I'm using k3b. It had some dependency problems, but it works anyway.

8) Superkaramba is not usable for me. I have a voodoo3 i here and to use superkaramba I must enable some desktop effects, which makes my video card run slow. I could use superkaramba in KDE3. This is not to blame KDE4 ofcourse, but my crappy video.

In general I like using KDE4. It's nice, simple, cnfortable. Right now I'm not using any other desktop than KDE4.

luca.b
January 5th, 2008, 10:21 AM
1) Plasma panel's system tray is incompatible with some non-kde applications (for example pidgin).

That's a bug in GTK+, actually, and not Plasma's fault. A bug was opened but marked as WONTFIX as far as I can remember.



3) K menu needs to be better. It is usable and confortable after some time using it, but I think the kde guys can do a lot better than that.


There is an alternative ("classic") K menu available.



6) Dolphin is ok. Somehow, kubuntu's dolphin is different to the one I have used here. I like it.


Kubuntu's dolphin is the KDE3 version, which is quite behind the KDE 4 version, much more functional.



7) There is no burning software yet in KDE4. I'm using k3b. It had some dependency problems, but it works anyway.


Sebastian Trueg has just started porting k3b. As it's not tied to KDE's release cycle, like Amarok, it'll take a little more time to show up. A lot of applications have begun their porting, though.

marsmissionaries
January 5th, 2008, 10:22 AM
Due to popular demand:

http://ocrap.org/snapshot23.png


This is a recent build as of today running konsole, with desktop effects.

Now for some explanations:

GTK apps that require an icon in the system tray do not work, this is because of a BUG in GTK not in KDE or QT. Aaron Seigo filed a bug report, but the GTK guys have ignored it saying it's kde's fault. (Ignorance?)

The KMenu available is called Kickoff, i don't like it much either, however it can be removed and a menu that resembles the previous can be used instead.

GTK apps will not look good unless the gtk confign file gets loaded, some apps load it on startup, most don't. (rhythmbox does..) Once this while is loaded, it will stay loaded for the whole session, and all GTK apps will look okay again.

Dolphin really is a good file Manager, Konqueror is a really great web browser...that's how it should stay.

KDE 4 is very stable, the release version should have no issues, infact, it had more bug fixes than all live cd's out right now.

marsmissionaries
January 5th, 2008, 10:25 AM
That's a bug in GTK+, actually, and not Plasma's fault. A bug was opened but marked as WONTFIX as far as I can remember.

Yup. You beat me to the explanation. I was the first person to report that bug (I was the only regular kde4 user using gtk apps at the time), Aaron Seigo followed up on it and reported it to the necessary places. Unfortunately GTK guys refuse to fix it.

danf_1979
January 5th, 2008, 10:46 AM
marsmissionaries, please could you elaborate on the steps necessaries to make gtk apps look good on KDE4? At least in KDE3 you need gtk-qt-engine. Thanks.

luca.b
January 5th, 2008, 10:56 AM
Yup. You beat me to the explanation. I was the first person to report that bug (I was the only regular kde4 user using gtk apps at the time), Aaron Seigo followed up on it and reported it to the necessary places. Unfortunately GTK guys refuse to fix it.

That reminds me that I'm writing a Plasma FAQ and I have to add this item for sure, since a lot of users (myself included) use a mixture of QT-KDE and GTK+-GNOME applications. Do you know if there's a workaround or we just have to live with it? Can you also give me the URL for your bug report if possible? Thanks.

marsmissionaries
January 5th, 2008, 11:05 AM
the only way i know is to load up a app that loads the gtkrc file by default like rhythmbox, and then the rest of the apps will be able to use the settings. (rhythmbox will not work in kde4 however, but it will load enough to load the file)

GeneralZod
January 5th, 2008, 11:06 AM
Can you also give me the URL for your bug report if possible? Thanks.

I'm guessing it's this one:

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153193

marsmissionaries
January 5th, 2008, 11:47 AM
That reminds me that I'm writing a Plasma FAQ and I have to add this item for sure, since a lot of users (myself included) use a mixture of QT-KDE and GTK+-GNOME applications. Do you know if there's a workaround or we just have to live with it? Can you also give me the URL for your bug report if possible? Thanks.


The link above is the one on the kde bugzilla, however this one:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=501842

Is more relevant as it is the one that is filed against the proper project.


There is no workaround. The kde devs made a point of leaving the issue in so that GTK will fix their bug.

marsmissionaries
January 5th, 2008, 11:55 AM
@GeneralZod: in reference to the plasma panel config not being available, that unfortunately was not able to make it due to the developers working with other bugs. Configurability will come though. The dev team will soon be laying out what they want done by 4.1 which has been stated that it will be out later this year. Plasma can be themed, and probably will have some themes out in the future, however installing them won't be easy as there is no GUI. (there are also bugs with the panel still that are related to QT). I personally am happy that the last few weeks of work that went into plasma were mostly bug fixing, because configuration is nothing if plasma crashes.

lzfy
January 5th, 2008, 01:03 PM
There are some new screenshots and info @ PlanetKDE (http://planetkde.org/)

miggols99
January 5th, 2008, 09:36 PM
Well it seems that the problem with the enormous panel is fixed:

http://jlp.holodeck1.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/kde400-slo.png

by changing the SVG background. Can't wait for Arch to update their packages to KDE4 (hopefully) next week.

maniacmusician
January 12th, 2008, 11:46 PM
Kubuntu's dolphin is the KDE3 version, which is quite behind the KDE 4 version, much more functional.

Kubuntu's "dolphin" is actually D3lphin, which is a KDE3 Dolphin messily hacked to backport some of the code additions in the KDE4 Dolphin. So while it has some features of the new version, it looks worse, is much buggier, and doesn't offer as smooth or integrated of an experience as the new Dolphin in KDE4.

Christmas
January 13th, 2008, 12:36 AM
I didn't try it but I still have the Debian KDE4 Beta 4 Live CD and will try 4.0 in the near future. I'm a KDE fan for about 2 years now and from what I've seen from the screenshots it's awesome. I'll definitely like it.

regomodo
January 13th, 2008, 02:29 AM
its 4.0 not rc.
as of now i'm underwhelmed, and that's putting it lightly.

I'm sure the hype won't be for nothing once it's all done

new2*buntu
January 13th, 2008, 02:55 AM
I just tried the Fedora KDE 4.0 Live CD and the Kubuntu KDE 4.0 Live CD, and I didn't think it was really great, although their menu is muchbetter than the old K Menu, IMO. Still it isn't enough to make me switch from my current Debian install with XFCE.

Linuxratty
January 13th, 2008, 03:47 AM
This has realy been helpful...
I'm going to wait a bit before i try it out...Like maybe six months.
That's the ticket.:popcorn:

SomeGuyDude
January 13th, 2008, 04:16 AM
OpenSUSE + KDE4 = no good. Severely disappointed. It feels really unfinished and lacks the "polish" that 3.5 has, at least on OS.

CCNA_student
January 13th, 2008, 04:18 AM
I think that Ubuntu and Xubuntu have way less bugs that Kubuntu anyway. But maybe that was just my experience.

kamaboko
January 13th, 2008, 04:36 AM
OK, I'll bite. Which distro would you suggest for trying KDE 4?

PmDematagoda
January 13th, 2008, 04:40 AM
Well, it seems to me that OpenSUSE is pretty much the best distro to try out KDE 4. Kubuntu also has a KDE4 Live CD, though I do not know how good it is.

DeadSuperHero
January 13th, 2008, 04:54 AM
Try putting KDE4 on Ubuntu Studio, it's pretty fast.
Otherwise, try a really slim distro, such as Arch.

SomeGuyDude
January 13th, 2008, 05:19 AM
Well, it seems to me that OpenSUSE is pretty much the best distro to try out KDE 4. Kubuntu also has a KDE4 Live CD, though I do not know how good it is.

Seconded. If you want to test it out SUSE works dang well.

Now that's not to say it's any GOOD, but if you want to test 'er out that's your best bet. 1-click-install for the win.

bountylover
January 13th, 2008, 05:30 AM
The main reason I switched to Linux since '99 was the level of control I had over my desktop. I preferred KDE in favour of Gnome because i thought that KDE was niftier. As of the previous version of KDE (3.5) I was able to configure the panel. I used to set it to 'tiny' and transparent but now I cannot do that with this new version of KDE. It eerily reminds me of Windoze. What's worse, I removed all applets from the task bar. Now I'm stuck with a thick, empty, blank, black bar at the bottom of my screen.
I surely hope that this is corrected with a new updated version.

Polygon
January 13th, 2008, 06:47 AM
i hate it right now, but its pretty unfinished. I will try again with like 4.1 or 4.2.

tbroderick
January 13th, 2008, 06:56 AM
Voted "I haven't tried it". Mainly because I have Mandriva 2008 setup exactly how I want it and feel no need to use anything else. Maybe I'll try it when 2008.1 is released.

davtaine
January 13th, 2008, 08:52 AM
Not yet, its too early for me. Im waiting KDE 4.1

nrs
January 13th, 2008, 09:46 AM
OpenSUSE + KDE4 = no good. Severely disappointed. It feels really unfinished and lacks the "polish" that 3.5 has, at least on OS.

You honestly think that's a fair comparison? Maybe if you were comparing it to 3.0 -- which btw, wasn't much better -- or if this were 4.5

regomodo
January 13th, 2008, 10:44 PM
Try putting KDE4 on Ubuntu Studio, it's pretty fast.
Otherwise, try a really slim distro, such as Arch.

slower than kde3.5 on arch, buggy too

Lster
January 13th, 2008, 11:05 PM
I'm waiting to try it on Kubuntu or SuSe.

Ultra Magnus
January 14th, 2008, 12:00 AM
Just installed it on ubuntu. I've never tried KDE before but for some reason I felt compelled to do so.

It obviously feels quite new and not entirely finished but I'm impressed with at least a few things - dolphin is brilliant - Why doesn't nautilus have a split screen function? I like the smooth looking theme although foreground and background windows do look the same. Plasma is pretty cool (who doesn't like widgets). I do dislike the taskbar though - Its way to big and I couldn't find anyway of making it smaller.

I like it but I don't think I'll swap gnome just yet.

qazwsx
January 14th, 2008, 12:13 AM
I have tried lots of rc and beta versions. It didn't suprise me at all.

It's going to be something awesome. I quess 4.1 is when dream really becames reality :). KDE 3.5 is my primary choice.

SomeGuyDude
January 14th, 2008, 12:52 AM
You honestly think that's a fair comparison? Maybe if you were comparing it to 3.0 -- which btw, wasn't much better -- or if this were 4.5

Of course I think it's a fair comparison. As far as I'm concerned each number should be an upgrade from the one before it. I can't even imagine why one wouldn't do it that way.

Why in the world would 4.0 only be comparable to 3.0? If that were the case, then that would mean x.0 releases are never any good and never better than the x.5 before it. And THAT would mean that obviously the x.0 release isn't actually a "final" release and shouldn't have been introduced as such.

SunnyRabbiera
January 14th, 2008, 01:27 AM
I tried it but so far I dislike it.
But who knows what the future might bring for it

dustman
January 14th, 2008, 01:32 AM
well, i installed it and the system froze (pushed the magic button->SOLVED :D) for about 10 times in 15 minutes when i tried all sort of stuff + choppy movement. There are a lot of things to fix, so perhaps the following releases will be better ;).

fredbird67
March 10th, 2008, 06:28 PM
A friend of mine in the Central West End Linux Users Group (one of many LUGs here in the St. Louis area) loaned me a copy of Suse's KDE 4 demo. I brought it home, popped it into my CD tray, and lemme tell ya, it absolutely SUCKS.

I've been a Linux user for four years now, and during the last three years, I've had nothing but Linux on my computer, and I liked KDE 3 so much that I used only distros that used KDE as the desktop. Well, when I saw recently that KDE 4 would phase out some of their programs such as Konqueror, not to mention that they were going to adopt a default look that resembles Vista, I was very disappointed. After all, why make Linux look like an OS that's such a piece of crap, even to people who won't consider anything but Windows?

Even so, I was curious to see what it was like, and it only made me even more disappointed, since a lot of things had been rearranged and moved around for no good reason at all. In short, I feel like KDE done pulled a Microsoft on me.

Ever since I learned about KDE 4 and saw how it was trying to resemble that piece of junk known as Vista, I vowed right then and there I would be switching to a distro (I was using PCLinuxOS at the time) that used either GNOME or Xfce for the desktop. And now, I'm happy to say that I now have Ubuntu installed on my computer! :) In fact, I've really gotten to where I like GNOME, too, which is kind of a surprise, because I used to not like it at all, although I've always found Xfce to be fun to use, too.

Fred in St. Louis

Arkenzor
March 10th, 2008, 06:36 PM
It totally kills me that they chose to replace the almighty Konqueror with a "mere" file manager. But then again I've usually used Krusader instead of Konqueror myself, so perhaps I'm not being very coherent here. And you can still esaily change your settings to get Konqueror back.

I did like KDE4 overall, it looks pretty good to me and definitely not similar to Vista (unless Xfce is also a copy of Gnome). I'll probably give it a more serious try with Kubuntu Hardy or Fedora 9 (yeah, I like people to fit things together for me), or when 4.1 finally comes out.

ShodanjoDM
March 10th, 2008, 06:39 PM
Installed it, tried it and already removed it. Not because I hate it, infact I think the horizontally scrolling menu is really cool.

It's just I prefer Gnome's simplicity and "humility".

The dolphin file browser is nice though. I wish nautilus is like that.

Mazza558
March 10th, 2008, 06:41 PM
I absolutely love the way it's heading. As of now it's in a pre-alpha state IMO as far as useability goes, but once we're up to 4.5, then I'll probably start using it properly.

FuturePilot
March 10th, 2008, 06:43 PM
I just tried it out yesterday. Although it looks beautiful, it's still not for me. KDE just doesn't work for me. I've tried countless times to switch to KDE but it never works out. It must hate me or something.....