Debian Forums vs. Ubuntu

[cprofitt]

I have to say that it seems the Debian forums are a bit more 'hostile' to new users than these forums, but I think I still prefer Debian over 'buntu.

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=120351#120351

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[Perpetual]

I don't think I would call Debian Forums hostile, possibly less tolerant but that isn't exactly a bad thing. Debian is a more advanced Distribution in comparison to Ubuntu so when posting their, it is expected that the poster has done some homework on their own before asking for someone to solve their problem.

I personally never have problems their.

[txHarleyMan]

I don't think I would call Debian Forums hostile, possibly less tolerant but that isn't exactly a bad thing. Debian is a more advanced Distribution in comparison to Ubuntu so when posting their, it is expected that the poster has done some homework on their own before asking for someone to solve their problem.

I personally never have problems their.

Debian is More Advanced? :lol:

I just migrated from Debian because I got tired of manually getting things to work. I have been a developer for 26 years and consider Debian more of a /geeks/ distro. Thing is - I can be a geek with Ubuntu, too, with most of the work already done for me.

[kellemes]

Debian is More Advanced? :lol:

I just migrated from Debian because I got tired of manually getting things to work. I have been a developer for 26 years and consider Debian more of a /geeks/ distro. Thing is - I can be a geek with Ubuntu, too, with most of the work already done for me.


Debian isn't more advanced at all, it's users in general are.. They need to be willing to spend the time and work to setup the system as they wish. There is no way around that.
This *may* result in a better functioning system then Ubuntu provides. It's all up to the user I guess..

[cprofitt]

Debian isn't more advanced at all, it's users in general are.. They need to be willing to spend the time and work to setup the system as they wish. There is no way around that.
This *may* result in a better functioning system then Ubuntu provides. It's all up to the user I guess..

The biggest problem I have is that when you have searched high and low and still have an issue you get six posters telling you to go find the solution yourself and then one guy a week later that finally points you in the right direction.

For instance -- I have an issue booting with the Live Install CD -- there are instructions on the web to use the option:

all.generic.ide which does not work.

more instructions say to use

install generic.all_generic_ide=1

Which works roughly 50% of the time, but you get a message that the parameter is 'unknown' and will be ignored.

With this issue I went to the IRC channel to get some help and got four people giving me crap about it and not one drop of help.

To be honest while I prefer some things about Debian most of their 'user base' appears to be more trouble than its worth.

Ubuntu and SUSE are better in that respect, in my experience.

The only issue with Ubuntu is that you have people passing off things that they say work that do not... because the community here has a larger number of less experienced people.

The SUSE Wiki is outstanding from my initial uses, but I am not sure I can deal with Yast.

[kellemes]

Get your point..
I get 90% of my support for Debian from the Ubuntu-forums..
Simply replacing Ubuntu with Debian most often works. :)

[tommcd]

I have also found that some people on the debian forums seem to be intolerant (and hostile would not be inappropriate here) toward new, or less knowledgeable users. I have seen several of the most knowledgeable users on the debian forums say that debian is not a distro for noobs, and recommend other "beginner" distros instead. This is perhaps good advice, but at the same time it probably turns some people away from debian who would like to use it.
This is also in sharp contrast to what you will generally find on the slackware forums at linuxquestions.org. Slackware users openly welcome new users, even beginners. Many knowledgeable Slackers will insist that even absolute beginners can use slackware, provided they do their homework and read up on it first. A lot of slackware gurus will go out of their way to help those less knowledgeable troubleshoot their problems as long as they ask intelligent questions and provide enough information about the problem.
In case you are wondering, I use slackware, and I have stopped using debian, even though debian is an excellent distro imo.

[ubuntu-freak]

I use Ubuntu forums mostly. Nice and lively!

Debian forums can be fun though. I remember one thread entitled 'Convert me Debian users!' Something like that. He was a Ubuntu user and thinking of switching to Debian. The first few replies were 'No thanks', 'I have better things to do' and my personal favourite 'Go back to windows'.

Gotta love it...

Nathan

[kellemes]

I use Ubuntu forums mostly. Nice and lively!

Debian forums can be fun though. I remember one thread entitled 'Convert me Debian users!' Something like that. He was a Ubuntu user and thinking of switching to Debian. The first few replies were 'No thanks', 'I have better things to do' and my personal favourite 'Go back to windows'.

Gotta love it...

Nathan

Thanks Nathan, there is a lot of humor in there.. :)

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=102738

[macogw]

I don't get why everyone says Debian's so much harder than Ubuntu. The only difference I saw in installation was umm...hmm..oh there's tasksel in there so it lets you make some more decisions about software you have during the ncurses installation. I didn't try Debian's GUI installer (didn't know it was there). On my laptop, Debian is just a big pile of crash (it's Etch, so it probably doesn't support my motherboard for the sake of "stability"...because crashing is just so stable), but it runs very well on my Pentium II at home. For the laptop, the only thing I had to do extra when installing Debian was install 2 or 3 packages for Intel wireless. For the desktop, I didn't do anything different between Ubuntu and Debian (that thing couldn't run Ubuntu's live installer anyway...it *can* run the live cd, but the installer takes more memory).

[Eck]

Hey, txHarleyMan! :)

Remember, we had some fun on my "Hey I'm back" stupid (now, admittedly so) thread.

Very interesting! You've replaced Debian with Ubuntu. I'm still running Lenny and came over to the forum here (joined a while back since there's plenty of good info here, though I have posted my opinion regarding being wary of some of the advice given at times) today to check out info on Virtualbox since I recently install Windows 98SE on it as a guest.

I've only tried Ubuntu briefly, only with checking out the Live bootup but not installing it. I've read that Ian Murdock considers Ubuntu to be Debian, I guess sort of like another distribution similar to Stable, Testing, Unstable, Ubuntu. :)

With all the warnings by forum members over there against installing Ubuntu debs onto a normal Debian installation, I suppose his thoughts are more theoretical than actual.

I'd love to hear your thoughts about the differences. You already know that unlike many Debian posters over there, I like "pointy, clicky" GUI types of things that make administration as simple and nice looking as running any DE program. While using the only other distro I have actually installed, OpenSUSE, I absolutely loved using YaST, a one-stop shop for nearly everything not look and feel related, with that stuff being in KControl or Gnome Appearance panels. Obviously Debian by choice disdains that sort of Administrative tool.

I'm aware that Ubuntu doesn't have that sort of thing either, however it does incorporate separate GUI tools for many important administrative tasks that make accomplishing these things easier. You just point and click instead of typing commands after reading the man pages. Same thing, less studying and typing!

Detractors pontificate that these GUI's for standard Debian traditional command line tools are not refined and polished because they are experiments and so at this point full of bugs that force a user to find work-arounds. Both Debian and OpenSUSE experienced users often post that sort of thing, myself included even in my ignorance.

Have you seen this to be the case? I really don't know more than what I've read, although I have somewhat participated in some of the "bashing Ubuntu" fun, just because it was kind of humorous. But as you are aware, I find different ways distros set things up very interesting. I'd like to know whether you find Ubuntu to actually be kind of a next stage of evolution of Debian, or whether after using it you have found that in actuality Debian might be easier since there would be no need to turn off or work around buggy GUI's and have the safety of Debian Policy and package maintenance ensuring standards and stability are high in priority.

I got a chuckle reading the post describing Debian Etch not supporting a motherboard to be a feature of stability. :) Aww, they probably just needed to use Lenny with its newer Kernel. But a funny jab, nonetheless.

So, after making comparisons in fact and use, what do you think about Ubuntu vs. Debian in actual use? Inquiring minds, mine anyway, are interested in knowing real facts rather than pontifications of fanboys of either distro.

[tturrisi]

Not everyone at the deb forums is hostile or impatient. Some of us sincerely assist others all the time, including newbies. The main difference between the deb forums and ubuntu forums is that the deb forums are "policed" better. You don't see a plethora of threads titled, "Help, wifi doesn't work". Secondly, you have members there that have been using debian for many years.

The ubunti forums are becoming more and more difficult to navigate because of the like threads. Folks here seem to ignore the forum serach feature and instead just post repetitive threads. For example, do a ubuntu forum search for "broadcom" or "bcm43xx" and you'll see almost as many hits as searching google for that term! Yet there's really only 2 methods of getting a bcm43xx device to work, use the native drivers w/ fwcutter or use ndiswrapper.

There are those of us that use straight debian and gladly assist others. Some of us write up what we have done to get debian running on our hardware so that others can avoid the headaches/frustrations. my example:
http://members.cox.net/tonyt/d830

[Perpetual]

The ubunti forums are becoming more and more difficult to navigate because of the like threads. Folks here seem to ignore the forum serach feature and instead just post repetitive threads. For example, do a ubuntu forum search for "broadcom" or "bcm43xx" and you'll see almost as many hits as searching google for that term! Yet there's really only 2 methods of getting a bcm43xx device to work, use the native drivers w/ fwcutter or use ndiswrapper.

I agree and I find it easier to use Google to search the Ubuntu forums than using Ubuntu Search.

Got off topic.

[Eck]

Yes, back on topic for me, the Debian forum folks have been helpful anytime I've had a question. The how-to articles and hints about important system functions within the threads are easy to digest and direct. And the moderators when they participate are not highly opinionated or forceful. In fact they have pleasant senses of humor and participate often in the banter. Quite an enjoyable experience over there.

There are dangers for new users blindly following advice over there as well. A good modus operandi for any posters with questions is to consider any advice as one way to go, but to research as thoroughly as possible. Some responses are not the best way to go in tackling a problem.

Not that it's wise to challenge the methods recommended. Folks have pride in what they know. Better to look around first and get back to the conversation when they can speak the same language. I've seen known nice folks get offended when a poster blatantly refuses to follow advice but continues to post, in effect being a pest. Questions are completely appropriate, but not continually asking for a problem to be solved while refusing to go through the steps offered.

I've found help here too. Sometimes all that's needed is to search, as there are more varied topics here than on the Debian forum. It's nice to have a forum with a lot of new users too. They're more likely to have queried regarding obscure software, multimedia, games, whatever. So rather than try to figure something out myself, this forum is a good resource so I don't need to fumble my way through reinventing the wheel.

[ubuntu-freak]

I have to agree with you on the how-to front. There are some incredible how-to articles in the Debian forums.

Nathan

[markharding557]

i think debian and ubuntu forums are like opposites,debian is too intolerant while ubuntu forum does too much.
eg on debian a simple question could get the rtfm response when a pointer to relevent documentation would do while on ubuntu forums people often ask questions which can be answered in ubuntus documentation and yet they are rarely pointed to it

[dptxp]

I have not been to Debian Forums but I can see that they have no such thing as The Beginners Talk. It is true that many do not do their homework well before posting, here we see that people even do not read 'how to burn' a CD and start complaining, and get away with it. It also is not a right way to ask "convince me why I should use Debian" though the user wants to know what he gets and what he does not. Yes, Ubuntu forums threads are cluttered, I searched for threads on how to run VCDS, found a few threads, but no right answer.

These factors can irritate the seasoned users, but there surely are better ways to answer than "Go back to Windows". I think that one single word can explain it - stability.
Going through the contents and tones of the Debian thread listed here above, I also feel that that in Debian forums people enjoy flaming the newcomers, they get some sort sadistic pleasure. As if if you cannot survive the Debian Forums, how can you survive Debian ?

I joined the Sidux forums, have installed Sidux too, and I have found the forums very friendly.