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View Full Version : Linux, is it for the people who don't want microsoft?



smartboyathome
December 13th, 2007, 05:03 PM
I have been reading several threads where people try to get rid of something or denounce it because it is associated to Microsoft. Is Linux really for people who want nothing to do with Microsoft at all? I am curious to see what people say.

santiagoward2000
December 13th, 2007, 05:09 PM
Not me! I'm still using my Microsoft optical mouse! :lolflag:

jr.gotti
December 13th, 2007, 05:10 PM
::sigh::

I think the word microsoft should be banned from the forums.

phrostbyte
December 13th, 2007, 05:11 PM
Yes and No.

toupeiro
December 13th, 2007, 05:12 PM
I have a microsoft Wireless keyboard and mouse, as well as a Microsoft computer audio system. :)

Linux is for anybody, regardless of how you feel about Microsoft. A motivator for a lot of people to try linux is an earned disdain of Microsoft software, but it is certainly not just for these people.

Het Irv
December 13th, 2007, 05:16 PM
Yes and No. There are plenty of people that are so fed up with Microsoft's standerds for what Microsoft thinks is a "good" release of Windows. Others dislike the fact that they control so much of the market that they can do whatever they want and get away with it. Because Windows is such a big part of what Microsoft does many people tend to look at other Microsoft products in the same light. On the other side Linux is for those people that want their computer to run exactly how they want it to. They want to customize their computer on every level.

sanderella
December 13th, 2007, 05:22 PM
Yes and No.
I agree. :)

norby
December 13th, 2007, 05:25 PM
No, Ubuntu is just for inteligente people!

the rest can keep windows.

By the way, why so many times we have to compare Ubuntu or other Linux/Unix distros with Windows ? Does it bother that much ?!?!?!

These are two different things! Live with it, and don't try to compare both because a) they are not comparable b) is used by totally diferent people(besides the fact the most of us have to go through some sort of Micrsoft software now and then!).

boast
December 13th, 2007, 05:29 PM
damn right- tell those solaris noobs!

tgalati4
December 13th, 2007, 05:31 PM
I like my MS optical mouse and keyboard. Otherwise, Linux is for people you want their computer back.

criskat777
December 13th, 2007, 05:32 PM
It may sound that way some times but the truth is Linux is a alternative OS that offers so much for NO COST. I think is the only and most valuable FREE thing you can get on the internet. yes it's FREE. some may get tick off when they use Linux and realize that M$ has been draining there wallet for some thing that can be found for FREE. But don't get me wrong i use M$. But it's over priced software (KEY WORDS over priced) combined with it's lic. agreements that benefits no one but M$. and there ways of wanting to steel other peoples work by patenting or baying them off before there work can take off, made me not buy as little M$ gear as possible. Me personally i don't get mad i get even:twisted:

rune0077
December 13th, 2007, 05:35 PM
Linux isn't for people who don't want Microsoft. Linux is for people who want "free" and "access to the source code".

igknighted
December 13th, 2007, 05:39 PM
Linux isn't for people who don't want Microsoft. Linux is for people who want "free" and "access to the source code".

It is for those people, and it can be for those people who hate microsoft, and it can also be for those people who have no problems with microsoft at all and would simply like to try another OS (or just find linux pleasant to use). It gets very frustrating when any one of these groups of linux users tries to force its ideology down the throats of the others.

subs
December 13th, 2007, 05:42 PM
i like to think about it like.... linux is for the people who have grown out of microsoft

smartboyathome
December 13th, 2007, 05:45 PM
It is for those people, and it can be for those people who hate microsoft, and it can also be for those people who have no problems with microsoft at all and would simply like to try another OS (or just find linux pleasant to use). It gets very frustrating when any one of these groups of linux users tries to force its ideology down the throats of the others.

This is why I made this thread. I wanted to know if it was really an ideology or if it was basically a fact.

p_quarles
December 13th, 2007, 05:48 PM
It is for those people, and it can be for those people who hate microsoft, and it can also be for those people who have no problems with microsoft at all and would simply like to try another OS (or just find linux pleasant to use). It gets very frustrating when any one of these groups of linux users tries to force its ideology down the throats of the others.
Agreed.

I for one support the goals and ideals of FOSS. I just happen to think that the GPL is a much more effective way of guaranteeing and extending software freedom than is zealotry. Legal battles have winners and losers. Flamewars only have the latter. :)

ticopelp
December 13th, 2007, 05:52 PM
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I moved to Ubuntu because I didn't care for the philosophy and lack of control that came with Vista. I still think XP is a perfectly usable operating system, although I don't imagine myself going back to it anytime soon.

khurrum1990
December 13th, 2007, 05:55 PM
Linux is not always going to be for people who don't want Microsoft as u may need a software on Windows for which no alternative is good enough, or maybe even students may require Windows. Linux is for people who want to learn a bit about their pc's and those who want to run a system that can be modifed or used in the way a user wants without breaking a license agreement.

ctyc
December 13th, 2007, 05:58 PM
Linux is for Geeks...nuff said!

rune0077
December 13th, 2007, 05:58 PM
It is for those people, and it can be for those people who hate microsoft, and it can also be for those people who have no problems with microsoft at all and would simply like to try another OS (or just find linux pleasant to use). It gets very frustrating when any one of these groups of linux users tries to force its ideology down the throats of the others.

Erhh, 'kay: What I meant to say was I don't prefer Linux because I hate Microsoft but because I want "free" and "access to the source code". There, happy?

aysiu
December 13th, 2007, 05:58 PM
We don't all use Linux for the same reasons.

omegamike3
December 13th, 2007, 06:01 PM
I see it as being 3 things:

1. You're tired of giving M$ all of your limbs to buy their products, or you're cheap and found a PC at walmart that does all the same things as a windoze box with linux already installed. The average sort of Joe or grandma that stumbled into Linux and has gone where they never thought possible.
2. You're a nerd and it's what nerds do. You've planted yourself on your side of the OS Flame Wars Fence and you're going to stay there until you go down or take the M$ fanboys down in a war of wits, insults, and facts. (mostly insults)
3. You're a hippie/dreamer. You believe in the essence of Linux and opensource software. Peace for all, good will to humans, can't we all just get along?

That's just my basic view of the base categories, obviously there's all sorts of exceptions to the rules, just as in life... Personally, I'm a mix of 2 and 3, a nerd flaming for peace and tranquility to the human race, with the bloody, glorified destruction of M$ and all dark overlord corporations by their side. ;)

pjkoczan
December 13th, 2007, 06:12 PM
For me it was about equal parts curiosity, liking it from work, preferring the mechanisms and structures, tinkering and learning, and disdain for MS.

It was the disdain for MS that ultimately made me not dual-boot, but my use of Linux was inevitable. I still occasionally run Windows in a VM for web development stuff, but not often.

aysiu
December 13th, 2007, 06:14 PM
I see it as being 3 things:

1. You're tired of giving M$ all of your limbs to buy their products, or you're cheap and found a PC at walmart that does all the same things as a windoze box with linux already installed. The average sort of Joe or grandma that stumbled into Linux and has gone where they never thought possible.
2. You're a nerd and it's what nerds do. You've planted yourself on your side of the OS Flame Wars Fence and you're going to stay there until you go down or take the M$ fanboys down in a war of wits, insults, and facts. (mostly insults)
3. You're a hippie/dreamer. You believe in the essence of Linux and opensource software. Peace for all, good will to humans, can't we all just get along?

That's just my basic view of the base categories, obviously there's all sorts of exceptions to the rules, just as in life... Personally, I'm a mix of 2 and 3, a nerd flaming for peace and tranquility to the human race, with the bloody, glorified destruction of M$ and all dark overlord corporations by their side. ;)
For me, it's #4.

4. I want an OS that does what I want it to do and is easy to maintain. Windows and Mac don't fit that criteria for my computing needs.

jr.gotti
December 13th, 2007, 06:22 PM
::sigh::

I think the word microsoft should be banned from the forums.

Allow me to clarify...I say this not because I hate MS....but because I'm tired of seeing threads go down the "F*** Microsoft" route. Not saying this one will, and no offense to the OP, but it's happened waaayyy too many times before.

And I agree with Aysiu's #4.

popch
December 13th, 2007, 06:23 PM
For me, it's #4.

4. I want an OS that does what I want it to do and is easy to maintain. Windows and Mac don't fit that criteria for my computing needs.

Applies to me, too.

anthonie
December 13th, 2007, 06:26 PM
Linux, is it for the people who don't want microsoft?

Its like asking: Yellow, is it for the cabdrivers that don't like black cars?

Linux is an operating system that runs on machines called 'personal computers'. The term 'personal' should give you an impression as where to find your answer.

I, for one, run a triple boot computer. I use Windows, occasionaly when I need things like Photoshop, Cool Edit or when I want to play a game of PES6. Aside from that I run Vista, mainly because many friends run that OS and every time when they have a problem they will ask me to come and fix it. So it's usefull to know that OS.

Now, do I hate Microsoft and do I use Nix because of that? No ofcourse not. MS has many nice things. The're just not my cup of tea most of the time.

Personal Computers are about freedom. Freedom of choice. Microsoft gives less freedom than others, and therefor I usually end up using the systems that give me of that more than Microsoft does.

smartboyathome
December 13th, 2007, 06:26 PM
For me, it's #4.

4. I want an OS that does what I want it to do and is easy to maintain. Windows and Mac don't fit that criteria for my computing needs.

Same here. Anyway, thanks for the input!

Linuxratty
December 13th, 2007, 06:29 PM
For me, it's #4.

4. I want an OS that does what I want it to do and is easy to maintain. Windows and Mac don't fit that criteria for my computing needs.

i agree..I like the flexibility of Linux...Right now Chris is working on Klikit...I asked him if he could set up an icon on the desktop where you could hide your other icons...He did...
Just try asking Microsoft for something and see how far you get.

n3tfury
December 13th, 2007, 06:31 PM
::sigh::

I think the word microsoft should be banned from the forums.

i think zealots on either side need to be banned from the forums.

popch
December 13th, 2007, 06:36 PM
Linux is an operating system that runs on machines called 'personal computers'. The term 'personal' should give you an impression as where to find your answer.

It also runs on servers of wildly differing sizes (from the network appliance or network disk drive in my household up to the database monster server in our data center). It even runs on those huge machines that used to be called 'host computers'.

spai
December 13th, 2007, 06:38 PM
Personal Computers are about freedom. Freedom of choice. Microsoft gives less freedom than others, and therefor I usually end up using the systems that give me of that more than Microsoft does.
I agree with you. I also have an additional point. The learning experience is invaluable.I like the amount of experiments you can do in Linux too.

Huskers
December 13th, 2007, 06:46 PM
For me I combined two computer that I had lying around into one. I needed an operating sytem and didn't think it would handle XP very well (not enough a** in the computer). SO I downloaded ubuntu and installed it. After some minor issues (namely the wireless USB Adapter I was trying), I got it running pretty well. It seems to have everything I need for basic computing. I imagine eventually I will run into something that it doesn't have (I'll cross that bridge when I get to it).

Anyway, after using ubuntu for only two weeks, I don't see myself ever getting Vista (even for my main computer).

anthonie
December 13th, 2007, 06:49 PM
It also runs on servers of wildly differing sizes (from the network appliance or network disk drive in my household up to the database monster server in our data center). It even runs on those huge machines that used to be called 'host computers'.
I guess most of the people here use it as a desktop system.

igknighted
December 13th, 2007, 06:51 PM
Erhh, 'kay: What I meant to say was I don't prefer Linux because I hate Microsoft but because I want "free" and "access to the source code". There, happy?

I didn't have anything wrong with your post at all, it was just right above mine so I quoted it because it was a perfect jumping off point... sorry if I offended. Supporting free software is never a bad reason to use linux/bsd/solaris. But there are many other reasons too. And often there is a very vocal anti-microsoft faction that start picking apart something (for example: mono) and it snowballs to the point that people who really don't know anything about it aside from what is in the thread start piling on against something because of the fears raised. It is times like that where I am almost ashamed to be a linux user.

jpmelos
December 13th, 2007, 06:55 PM
Why do people have to see Linux this way?

I see Linux just as an OS like Windows, Mac and whatever else. There's no OS that is an escape route from other. If there is, may we just consider Windows for people who don't want Linux!

Do you get my point? It's a matter of point of view.

rune0077
December 13th, 2007, 06:56 PM
I didn't have anything wrong with your post at all, it was just right above mine so I quoted it because it was a perfect jumping off point... sorry if I offended. Supporting free software is never a bad reason to use linux/bsd/solaris. But there are many other reasons too. And often there is a very vocal anti-microsoft faction that start picking apart something (for example: mono) and it snowballs to the point that people who really don't know anything about it aside from what is in the thread start piling on against something because of the fears raised. It is times like that where I am almost ashamed to be a linux user.

No, no, I wasn't implying that you didn't seem to like my post, just changed my statement after reading yours 'cause it made sense to me. I think you're absolutely right. I haven't been on this forum too long, and I've already had to defend Windows countless times from hordes of angry Linux-users. To many here seem to be anti-Windows, when they really just should be pro-Linux (and you can be the later without also being the former).

lespaul_rentals
December 13th, 2007, 06:57 PM
I think the word microsoft should be banned from the forums.

:lolflag::lolflag: You said "Microsoft!" :lolflag::lolflag:

jflaker
December 13th, 2007, 07:00 PM
Most of the MS Optical mice are manufactured by Logitech. The mice are branded for Microsoft......MS does not have any hardware manufacturing, the branding states that the hardware is fully supported on any version of Windows.

n3tfury
December 13th, 2007, 07:08 PM
Most of the MS Optical mice are manufactured by Logitech. The mice are branded for Microsoft......MS does not have any hardware manufacturing, the branding states that the hardware is fully supported on any version of Windows.

that's ..... funny. i have both a logitech MX518 and a new MS Explorer and although i love the way the MX518 tracks for gaming, the MS Explorer is definitely built better and feels alot sturdier.

GG logitech.

omegamike3
December 13th, 2007, 08:13 PM
Why do people have to see Linux this way?

I see Linux just as an OS like Windows, Mac and whatever else. There's no OS that is an escape route from other. If there is, may we just consider Windows for people who don't want Linux!

Do you get my point? It's a matter of point of view.

It definitely is a matter of point of view. Some people see all of them as 'just an OS' and some of them see them as a kind of metaphor for life. It's all dependent on where you're coming from. Some see windows as something that just gets things done, it is what it is. Others see windows as a big brother figure, slapping you down every time you try to do something they don't like. For them, linux offers them a way to 'stick it to da man'

Mad_Dawg
December 13th, 2007, 08:15 PM
No, I don't hate MS. I just found Kubuntu to be an interesting alternative. Plus it is free. Having been hammered by trojan horses twice in 6 months I decided that it was time for something different. I am having difficulty with the Kubuntu. Setting up all the peripherals has been a nightmare. I don't hate either, but I don't love them either. Maybe someday I will reach computer Nirvanah.

bruce89
December 13th, 2007, 08:19 PM
It was just curiosity for me.

Achetar
December 13th, 2007, 08:22 PM
Yes and No. Yeah, I use a Microsoft Wireless Mouse, and I still (unfortunately) keep Windows for games that refuse to run in wine, no matter how much tweaking I do.

bruce89
December 13th, 2007, 08:25 PM
Yeah, I use a Microsoft Wireless Mouse, and I still (unfortunately) keep Windows for games that refuse to run in wine, no matter how much tweaking I do.

I don't bother with wine, it's a bloody mess.

I still have an XP partition on the desktop which is still limping along. I once resized its partition with GParted, and it has been really slow to start ever since.

daynah
December 13th, 2007, 08:28 PM
Ubuntu is for humans.

bruce89
December 13th, 2007, 08:32 PM
Ubuntu is for humans.

I put a Ubuntu sticker on my rabbit's hutch. I modified the tag line to "Too easy for rabbits".

thx11381974
December 13th, 2007, 08:59 PM
First I think we should ban anyone who dosen't agree with every opinion I've ever had :lolflag:
Seriously though I'm not a Microsoft hater I do think the company has lost it's way they seem to think they own my computer and I should just be thankful they let me use it. A lot of people on this forum do hate Microsoft which is a mistake Microsoft doesn't hate Linux they see Linux as a competitor. Applying an emotional value to a competitor inflates their real value which causes you to make bad choices. I liked XP when M$ released Vista I tried it was insulted and decided to try Linux. If Microsoft fixes the DMR & other mistakes of vista I might try it again. Though this a Linux forum we should be more welcoming to M$ users/believers as long as their respectful of were they are.

Whiffle
December 13th, 2007, 09:03 PM
I don't really have any gripes with microsoft except that for me, their software (namely windows), doesn't work as well as linux. Not to mention, linux is free. Why would I pay to use an inferior piece of software? I dunno, sounds silly to me. I still use office though, although I don't have much use for it...

anthonie
December 14th, 2007, 02:17 AM
Actually, when I think of it, after I moved over to Ubuntu (I used to have mandrake installed, years ago), I use Windows only for a few tasks. Ever since it runs a lot better. Nowadays it's degraded more or less to a sort of gamingcomputer for me, that I also use for Photoshop and to make electronic music, but that's about it. I have had no reinstall of Windows since I installed Ubuntu. That really has been different.

Long story short, with Ubuntu's help, the functionality of some Microsoft products actually seems to improve. :confused:

And it's true. Wine is a disaster.

blastus
December 14th, 2007, 02:28 AM
It can be. One of the reasons is that one can try Linux out and use it without paying for it. On the other hand, if one buys a Mac and he/she doesn't like it, he/she will have wasted money.

scojo
December 14th, 2007, 02:34 AM
Personally, I like the freedom of the GNU/Linux OSs. And it's more fun to use, partly due to the community. Another thing that's nice about the GNU/Linux distros is the bundling of all the useful free software into one repository. Just my $.02

-grubby
December 14th, 2007, 02:40 AM
Not me! I'm still using my Microsoft optical mouse! :lolflag:

me too!

astromech
December 14th, 2007, 03:18 AM
I think the best reason to use Linux is because it is better, not because the other guy sucks.

Concentrate on the positive aspects .

Ubuntu ROCKS !!! :guitar:

PurposeOfReason
December 14th, 2007, 03:28 AM
No, Ubuntu is just for inteligente people!

I just want to throw out the irony that he misspent intelligent and that, not to criticize Ubuntu, but it's not all that hard of a distro. I still use it as I'm still trying to get a full out arch instillation.

zcal
December 14th, 2007, 03:28 AM
Is Linux really for people who want nothing to do with Microsoft at all?

You might find this interview with Linus Torvalds interesting.
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/60052.html

I don't actually see it as a battle. I do my thing because I think it's interesting and worth doing, not because of any anti-Microsoft issues. I've never had a strong antipathy against them. Microsoft simply isn't interesting to me. And the whole open source thing is not an anti-Microsoft movement, either. Open source is a model for how to do things, and I happen to believe that it's just a much better way to do things.

And I'm still using my MS optical mouse too...Apple mousepad though.

jken146
December 14th, 2007, 03:29 AM
Not me! I'm still using my Microsoft optical mouse! :lolflag:

Me too!

Incense
December 14th, 2007, 04:24 AM
I kind of think the mac is for people who don't want microsoft. Some people come this way because they want to be MS free, but I think most people want a free and open system that is easy to use without the worry of spyware and viruses. If linux people did not want MS, then WINE, cedega, and crossover linux, wouldn't be as popular as they are. How many posts in the forums are "How do I make x software from windows run on ubuntu?"

SolusNunquam
December 14th, 2007, 04:27 AM
I just want to throw out the irony that he misspent intelligent and that, not to criticize Ubuntu, but it's not all that hard of a distro. I still use it as I'm still trying to get a full out arch instillation.

That's how you spell intelligent in spanish...Just an F.Y.I :)

seanc7
December 14th, 2007, 04:39 AM
Two fold for me:

1) It saves me money and repeated hassle on my home laptop.

2) To get my company to slowly migrate toward a Linux environment where they can (ie: VMWare Server running on Linux on the QA servers) Saves the company on Win licenses to run the hardware and lets us run one additional VM per server with the resources saved. :) Plus setting up a central FTP server for the lab rather then having the tester install IIS on every one of their systems for testing FTP functionality.

Presto123
December 14th, 2007, 04:41 AM
For me it's a matter of having an actually decent running computer. Windows can't give me that.

igknighted
December 14th, 2007, 04:46 AM
You might find this interview with Linus Torvalds interesting.
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/60052.html.

Thanks, zcal. That's a great quote. Sums up my feelings on the matter perfectly.

mdsmedia
December 14th, 2007, 05:01 AM
For me it's a bit of both.

My 6 month old HP Notebook running XP had slowed to a crawl. I'd kept an eye on Linux since I installed RedHat v.6.something years ago.

I like the FLOSS philosophy.

I thought, I wonder what Ubuntu is really like and I asked in a LUG mailing list and it was suggested to give it a go, that I'd be pleasantly surprised, so I took the leap. Within days Ubuntu was my primary OS and I use Windows as little as I possibly can. I'm always looking for ways to do things I currently have to use Windows for.

I don't like Windows. It annoys me. I don't like MS.

I like Ubuntu. It has its quirks, and they don't seem to annoy me, even if it takes a little work to get some things working. I don't find myself swearing at Linux like I still do at Windows.

So, is Linux for people who don't want Microsoft? Most certainly. Is it ONLY for people who don't want Microsoft? Certainly not.

SolusNunquam
December 14th, 2007, 05:05 AM
I don't mind MS, but i switched because Linux gives you a chance to learn something new with some effort. I'm up for new things, in this case, an improvement.

ntowakbh
December 14th, 2007, 05:14 AM
The way a number of people seem to act, one would think that Linux is only for anti-Microsoft people.

I have no problem with Microsoft, I think that their stuff is overpriced, however. I've always preferred free software, both in cost, and what I can do with it. So those are the only things that I have against Microsoft: Closed source, and not free in cost.

I own a Zune, and like it. To be honest though, if it weren't for my Zune, I wouldn't ever load into Windows XP on my home computer.


Now if we are talking about Apple...that is a whole different story.

SunnyRabbiera
December 14th, 2007, 05:29 AM
for me its for people who could not afford apple at the time.
But once I get more cash in my pocketbook I might go apple

popch
December 14th, 2007, 08:45 AM
I just want to throw out the irony that he misspent intelligent

... while misspent is the usual spelling for 'incorrectly spelled'?

meindian523
December 14th, 2007, 08:57 AM
I have been reading several threads where people try to get rid of something or denounce it because it is associated to Microsoft. Is Linux really for people who want nothing to do with Microsoft at all? I am curious to see what people say.

It's not only for people who want nothing to do with MS,it's primarily for people who value freedom.....just my 2c.

Dimitriid
December 14th, 2007, 09:35 AM
I have been reading several threads where people try to get rid of something or denounce it because it is associated to Microsoft. Is Linux really for people who want nothing to do with Microsoft at all?

It can be. Sure why not?

Tom Mann
December 14th, 2007, 10:16 AM
Ubuntu is for everyone, whether they choose to use it is up to them. :KS

dimbulb1024
December 14th, 2007, 02:52 PM
Not me! I'm still using my Microsoft optical mouse! :lolflag:
Me too, but mine is a notebook mouse so it's Microsoft footprint is smaller.\\:D/

Dragonbite
December 14th, 2007, 03:05 PM
I have been reading several threads where people try to get rid of something or denounce it because it is associated to Microsoft. Is Linux really for people who want nothing to do with Microsoft at all? I am curious to see what people say.

Both Linux and Microsoft have their place and you can pick and choose which one you prefer. It is a CHOICE.

I've been using VB/ASP and SQL Server for a while and it works fine for me, but I could use PHP/MySQL instead.

I use MS Office 2003 (at work) and for what I do it does a fine job, but I could use OpenOffice.org instead (mostly).

I use Adobe Photoshop and Paint.NETat home , but I could use Gimp and Krita instead.

Although Windows XP works fine at work, I prefer the Linux desktop and package management systems.

You can use Linux either because you don't want to use Microsoft, or because you want to use Linux.

Honestly, though, I think that to use Linux only because you don't want to use Microsoft is a disservice to all of the people that have put Linux together. Linux, by it's own right, is good enough for people to want to choose to use it becuase of it's advantages, not because it is the "lesser of evils".

macogw
December 14th, 2007, 06:47 PM
I think it's like "woah...hey I like this. This is better. Why the f*** did I give Microsoft all that money for that piece of s*** Windows? Hey everybody! Microsoft's ripping you off! You can get better stuff for free!" and not "I hate Microsoft, so I'm going to go try Linux."

n3tfury
December 14th, 2007, 06:51 PM
I think it's like "woah...hey I like this. This is better. Why the f*** did I give Microsoft all that money for that piece of s*** Windows? Hey everybody! Microsoft's ripping you off! You can get better stuff for free!" and not "I hate Microsoft, so I'm going to go try Linux."

lol "better stuff for free"

jr.gotti
December 14th, 2007, 09:07 PM
i think zealots on either side need to be banned from the forums.

By zealots, you mean...?

I wouldn't say completely banning "Ub3r 1337 M$ h473r5" from the board would be necessary (Well...if they spelled like that...than maybe...) because there are some people who are quite knowledgeable about linux that still can't shake the immature "MS Bashing" aspect of "linuxians" that I so desperately want to see abolished. I just wish all that kindof talk could be erased from the board.

And of course, banning the word microsoft was a hyperbole of sorts...that would be absurd.

And I get the impression that according to you I fit into the "other side of the zealots." Of course, I could be wrong. Care to clarify?

n3tfury
December 15th, 2007, 12:03 AM
By zealots, you mean...?

I wouldn't say completely banning "Ub3r 1337 M$ h473r5" from the board would be necessary (Well...if they spelled like that...than maybe...) because there are some people who are quite knowledgeable about linux that still can't shake the immature "MS Bashing" aspect of "linuxians" that I so desperately want to see abolished. I just wish all that kindof talk could be erased from the board.

And of course, banning the word microsoft was a hyperbole of sorts...that would be absurd.

And I get the impression that according to you I fit into the "other side of the zealots." Of course, I could be wrong. Care to clarify?

you know who the zealots are. i wasn't aiming at you or i would have straight up called you one. also, my post was mostly sarcasm, like your post that i quoted.

smartboyathome
December 15th, 2007, 03:34 AM
I wouldn't say completely banning "Ub3r 1337 M$ h473r5" from the board would be necessary (Well...if they spelled like that...than maybe...) because there are some people who are quite knowledgeable about linux that still can't shake the immature "MS Bashing" aspect of "linuxians" that I so desperately want to see abolished. I just wish all that kindof talk could be erased from the board.

I agree that there should be a way to get rid of all bashing.

Incense
December 15th, 2007, 05:46 AM
I agree that there should be a way to get rid of all bashing.

I find it really annoying when people type M$, Micro$haft, winblows... or any other variation.

smartboyathome
December 15th, 2007, 05:50 AM
I find it really annoying when people type M$, Micro$haft, winblows... or any other variation.

I do too, but I just try to ignore them.

Dimitriid
December 15th, 2007, 06:02 AM
I agree that there should be a way to get rid of all bashing.

Yes. We also should get together and decide all the little things only a few users do and get rid of it! Why stop there? Just have a committee of people evaluate each and every single post to see which ones are not annoying and deserve to be posted!

Freedom of speech is overrated anyway right?

Incense
December 15th, 2007, 06:05 AM
Yes. We also should get together and decide all the little things only a few users do and get rid of it! Why stop there? Just have a committee of people evaluate each and every single post to see which ones are not annoying and deserve to be posted!

Freedom of speech is overrated anyway right?

That's the way the apple forums work isn't it?

bruce89
December 15th, 2007, 06:14 AM
That's the way the apple forums work isn't it?

Very good.

"Wine is quite an apt name, as it makes your computer act as if it's drunk" -- Me, just there

stephenbrazier
December 15th, 2007, 01:57 PM
In my opinion... Yes and No...

Yes: I read somewhere that most Linux users came from Windows after a bad sesion with it

No: I like M$ there products so sometimes work realy well, depending what it is. Hardware (like mouses, keyboards, etc) usualy yes. Software (OS) most always NO.

The only realy good software from them is Frontpage and Games.

koleoptero
December 15th, 2007, 04:21 PM
:confused: Do people have to use linux for a reason? I just use it...

jr.gotti
December 15th, 2007, 06:26 PM
you know who the zealots are. i wasn't aiming at you or i would have straight up called you one. also, my post was mostly sarcasm, like your post that i quoted.

I thought you were more of a straight shooter. =P

jr.gotti
December 15th, 2007, 06:32 PM
Yes. We also should get together and decide all the little things only a few users do and get rid of it! Why stop there? Just have a committee of people evaluate each and every single post to see which ones are not annoying and deserve to be posted!

Freedom of speech is overrated anyway right?

...was this necessary? People can say Microsoft all they want. Saying M$. Microsuck, Winblows, Micro$oft, and any other form of the word Microsoft that fits in with these is immature. It's annoying. Do you know why people say this? Because they come onto a linux board, and think they'll earn cool points by trashing Microsoft. Maybe that used to be true, but that tradition is quickly fading, and not a moment too soon.

Another thing people often do (I myself have in the past) is make posts for the sake of starting an argument, or for the sake of "going against the tide." That is also immature and annoying, wouldn't you agree? With that in mind, re-read your post and tell me what point you were trying to prove.

We're not against freedom of speech. We're (if I may speak for all those who agree with me) simply tired of the lack of maturity in the way certain people are exercising it.

EDIT:



No: I like M$ there products so sometimes work realy well, depending what it is. Hardware (like mouses, keyboards, etc) usualy yes. Software (OS) most always NO.


...you've got to be @%@& kidding me.

Xbehave
December 15th, 2007, 06:44 PM
Not at all from me, i switched to dual boot and then when wtf this is soo much better, end of.
I never had problems with windows, or ms software!

although i must admit that because ms screw linux over soo often i find most linux users (including me :( ) end up laying into them plenty, but i do think its fair game because they use FUD much more than we do!

toupeiro
December 15th, 2007, 06:48 PM
...was this necessary? People can say Microsoft all they want. Saying M$. Microsuck, Winblows, Micro$oft, and any other form of the word Microsoft that fits in with these is immature. It's annoying. Do you know why people say this? Because they come onto a linux board, and think they'll earn cool points by trashing Microsoft. Maybe that used to be true, but that tradition is quickly fading, and not a moment too soon.

Another thing people often do (I myself have in the past) is make posts for the sake of starting an argument, or for the sake of "going against the tide." That is also immature and annoying, wouldn't you agree? With that in mind, re-read your post and tell me what point you were trying to prove.

We're not against freedom of speech. We're (if I may speak for all those who agree with me) simply tired of the lack of maturity in the way certain people are exercising it.

EDIT:



...you've got to be @%@& kidding me.


wow. I mean I know I take things a little too literally sometimes, but I think you need to breathe or something.

If I say M$,(and I will) its because I've spent 9 straight months in their true-up program for a company before, or have seen them flip-flop on their documented best practices enough to know that sometimes they don't understand their products as good as their customerbase, and people pay for it, one way or another.

in fact, if I say anything negative about microsoft or their software, it doesn't come without some reality. Quite frankly, I've said many of the things I've talked about here in the past directly to Microsoft consultants and engineers, and at times THEY AGREED WITH ME.

Some people really do come to a linux board, and don't give two ***** about earning 'cool points' with people. I think I, like many people on this board probably, are sufficient with their knowledge and their position on things. Take it or leave it, I am here to help. Everyone has an opinion on things, and they are every bit as justified to it as you are. Tolerance is a two way street. But if a thread sits out there asking my opinion, just remember that you asked for it. :)

jr.gotti
December 15th, 2007, 06:54 PM
although i must admit that because ms screw linux over soo often i find most linux users (including me :( ) end up laying into them plenty, but i do think its fair game because they use FUD much more than we do!

Just for fun, can you quote an instance that YOU know of where Microsoft "screwed" over Linux? (As if there were two entities called Microsoft and Linux...God, some of the people on this board make the stock market sound like a wrestling match)

Secondly, even if "Microsoft" spreads Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, let the Open Source software do the talking for us. We don't need to fight immaturity with immaturity. That will never help our image. IMO, we should be striving for a professional image, and with comments like some of the ones I've seen in this thread, we're a long way away from home.

jr.gotti
December 15th, 2007, 06:57 PM
wow. I mean I know I take things a little too literally sometimes, but I think you need to breathe or something.

If I say M$,(and I will) its because I've spent 9 straight months in their true-up program for a company before, or have seen them flip-flop on their documented best practices enough to know that sometimes they don't understand their products as good as their customerbase, and people pay for it, one way or another.

in fact, if I say anything negative about microsoft or their software, it doesn't come without some reality. Quite frankly, I've said many of the things I've talked about here in the past directly to Microsoft consultants and engineers, and at times THEY AGREED WITH ME.

Some people really do come to a linux board, and don't give two ***** about earning 'cool points' with people. I think I, like many people on this board probably, are sufficient with their knowledge and their position on things. Take it or leave it, I am here to help. Everyone has an opinion on things, and they are every bit as justified to it as you are. Tolerance is a two way street. But if a thread sits out there asking my opinion, just remember that you asked for it. :)

To each his own, but keep in mind, if it is as you say it is with you, you are of a select few. You can't deny the existence of a "we want cool points" clan. And I'm not gonnah crucify people for doing whatever they do, I'm just going to point out what I think is annoying and immature. And I think I've done that.

And my airways are unobstructed. I can breathe fine. =]

Edit: It still begs the question, why say it at all. After listing your credentials, for lack of a better term, I can only assume you are a relatively intelligent person who is doing quite well for yourself. Had you not informed me, after seeing your childish reference to Microsoft, my opinion of you would have been a lot lower, albeit ill informed. I know you dont care, as I wouldn't if I were in your position, but I thought I'd put it out there. =]

dasunst3r
December 15th, 2007, 07:07 PM
Yes - I disagree with the way Microsoft is headed. In particular, I dislike how they tried to ram Office XML (I wouldn't even call it open) through the standards-making body by unethical means. Other grudges include its DRM and the fact that I cannot have control over my machine.

No - Linux is not right for everyone, namely: Closed-minded people, people afraid of change, and people unwilling to make compromises. The first type can continue to pay the Symantec protection fee... I mean... yearly subscription fee. The others can go for an Apple.

Linuxratty
December 15th, 2007, 07:16 PM
I also found the direction Microsoft is headed in way to oppressive and big brotherish...Not to mention overpriced.
While,I'm quite pleased with the direction I see Linux moving in,with the eye candy and such..After using Microsoft since 3.1, I felt,a couple years ago,it was time for a change...And I've been quite pleased with Linux...Having had a Mac,used Windows,I find,as far as functionality goes,one OS is as good as another...
As far as what I look for in an OS,well Linux wins hands down...

gn2
December 15th, 2007, 07:23 PM
Personally I use Linux because I prefer it.

Originally I started using it as I don't want to ever have to pay for another MS OS Licence.
They've had quite enough of my money already.

Anyway, having expiremented I found I really liked using Linux and despite still having valid MS Licences I no longer use them.

So now I am using Linux because I like it and prefer it to Windows.

zcal
December 15th, 2007, 07:47 PM
Lots of folks have been expressing concern about Microsoft's "monopolizing" and "big brothering," so here's an, I think, interesting follow up for this thread...

How does everyone feel about Google? :-k

gn2
December 15th, 2007, 07:53 PM
How does everyone feel about Google? :-k

I think Google's tremendous, but I only use their search facility and don't let them spy on me.

Wouldn't dream of letting them read my e-mail... :(

DM was on fire!
December 15th, 2007, 08:12 PM
Linux is for the nerds.
Mac is for the folks who don't want Microsoft.

As for Google, I don't use the search engine as much as I used to. I use GoodSearch about 90%.
I also have gMail, but no one ever sends me any e-mail, so I barely bother with it.


Just for fun, can you quote an instance that YOU know of where Microsoft "screwed" over Linux? (As if there were two entities called Microsoft and Linux...God, some of the people on this board make the stock market sound like a wrestling match)

How about when they sued the makers of Linspire because the original name of the product was Lindows.
They don't own the word "windows". They need to realise that.

mmb1
December 15th, 2007, 10:11 PM
I hate the direction that microsoft is going in, and I'm honestly scared about where computers are going with trusted computing starting to be implemented more and more.

rune0077
December 16th, 2007, 04:23 PM
Just for fun, can you quote an instance that YOU know of where Microsoft "screwed" over Linux? (As if there were two entities called Microsoft and Linux...God, some of the people on this board make the stock market sound like a wrestling match)


Well, there is actually, legally speaking at least, an entity called Microsoft. Meaning, you can sue "Microsoft", "Microsoft" pays taxes, "Microsoft" own property, etc, etc...

That being said, I still agree with you: enough with the Windows trashing. No, I don't like Microsoft as an entity anymore than the next poster in here, but all this "To Hell With Windows" is just getting old...

jespdj
December 16th, 2007, 07:15 PM
Linux is ofcourse for everybody, not just for people who are anti-Microsoft.

I use Linux because I am a software developer, so I like to tinker with software. There's a huge open source community behind Linux and I love the open source idea; I can get the source code of the whole system, down to the lowest level, and see how it works and even change it if I want. That's impossible with closed-source systems such as Windows and Mac OS.

I'm not fundamentally anti-Microsoft and I do use Windows at work and for running Photoshop CS3, but I prefer an open souce OS such as Ubuntu.

I want be be fully in control of my computer myself - I decide what I do with it, and I don't like the way Microsoft and Apple try to control what I do (for example with DRM).

For almost everything, Ubuntu is just as good as or even better than Windows. There's so much free and open source software, from office suites to video editing programs.

Linux is for the nerds.
Mac is for the folks who don't want Microsoft.
Ubuntu is also very useable for non-nerds. Apple is no better than Microsoft when it comes to trying to control what you do and making money off you. So getting a Mac because you don't want Microsoft is just exchanging one evil for another. Apple is not in any way more open or better for its customers than Microsoft.

PrimoTurbo
December 16th, 2007, 08:29 PM
Microsoft has it's place, I dislike a lot of things they are for and many things they have done but they are by far not the worst company in the world. They have definitely propelled the computer market, I think if they didn't exist with their competitive for-profit attitude the computer market would be a lot smaller. They have also created some great technology whether you like it or not. Yes it would have been nicer if open source was the dominant force that shaped the PC market, but it wasn't and there are many reasons why.

Anyone who bashes Microsoft for the sole reason of bashing them is either a fan boy or trolling. At least bash Microsoft for good reasons, not the random "Microsoft Sucks" comments. It's just pointless and makes you look childish.

PrimoTurbo
December 16th, 2007, 08:35 PM
How about when they sued the makers of Linspire because the original name of the product was Lindows.
They don't own the word "windows". They need to realise that.

But how is this different from any major corporation and their trademark? I mean Windows is a trademark for an operating system, if someone comes to market with a different OS and a single letter change I can sort of understand why it is a trademark violation. So Microsoft is not very different from every other major corporation and trademark infringement.

This is what I find more interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Rowe_(student)

gn2
December 16th, 2007, 10:12 PM
They <microsoft> have definitely propelled the computer market, I think if they didn't exist with their competitive for-profit attitude the computer market would be a lot smaller.

On the other hand there are many who would argue that the near total monopoly Microsoft enjoys is responsible for strangling genuine innovation in PC hardware.

PrimoTurbo
December 16th, 2007, 10:46 PM
On the other hand there are many who would argue that the near total monopoly Microsoft enjoys is responsible for strangling genuine innovation in PC hardware.

Perhaps that's a genuine argument for someone, but for myself I believe in understanding history from a historical dialectical/analytical method and not a hypothetical method instead. Partly because making general assumptions with out understanding the current situation, bends fact in to a parallel direction which is obviously controlled by a nearly infinite number of possibilities.

qazwsx
December 16th, 2007, 11:16 PM
Linux is so flexible that is the reason. I hate M$ only for indirect reasons. And flexibility is the area where M$ really sucks. And open source gives the flexibility.

For example I bought dvb usb stick. Windows drivers for that device are really crappy and makes it pretty much unusable. There is no offical support for Linux but I found couple of patches and modified the source code. After that TV works perfectly. I am not programmer (I can only do very very basic stuff).

Myglaren
December 16th, 2007, 11:21 PM
Linux, is it for the people who don't want microsoft?

Its like asking: Yellow, is it for the cabdrivers that don't like black cars?

Linux is an operating system that runs on machines called 'personal computers'. The term 'personal' should give you an impression as where to find your answer.

I, for one, run a triple boot computer. I use Windows, occasionaly when I need things like Photoshop, Cool Edit or when I want to play a game of PES6. Aside from that I run Vista, mainly because many friends run that OS and every time when they have a problem they will ask me to come and fix it. So it's usefull to know that OS.

Now, do I hate Microsoft and do I use Nix because of that? No ofcourse not. MS has many nice things. The're just not my cup of tea most of the time.

Personal Computers are about freedom. Freedom of choice. Microsoft gives less freedom than others, and therefor I usually end up using the systems that give me of that more than Microsoft does.

This pretty much sums up my approach to it. I have one machine running Vista, one dual-boot XP/Gutsy and one Gutsy only.
The Vista machine came with it installed and to use Ubuntu on it before the warranty runs out is unwise, after that who cares.
The dual boot retains XP for my daughter's use, mainly for iTunes. WHich will sneakily get migrated to Gutsy over the next few weeks.
My son also has a Vista laptop. He couldn't care less what he uses.

I was drawn to Linux some years ago out of sheer curiosity. I had at the time no clue that there were alternative OS's available for PC's other than OS/2 although I was aware of Unix and Vax.
I found that I liked the OSS ethos and this appreciation has grown with the increased restrictions imposed by Microsoft and having recently read Linus' biography even more so.

We do owe a debt of gratitude to Microsoft for proliferating the growth of PC's I suppose, even if it was motivated by the desire to fill corporate pockets. Nothing wrong with making a living but some take it a bit too far.

Linux seems to me to be a business done for the right reasons in the right way.

It all boils down to "You pays your money and you takes your choice"

I personally just 'like' Ubuntu more than the alternatives.

gn2
December 16th, 2007, 11:39 PM
Perhaps that's a genuine argument for someone, but for myself I believe in understanding history

I wasn't talking about the history of the development of computer hardware, I was speaking about now.

"enjoys is" (present tense)

tuebinger
December 16th, 2007, 11:43 PM
Not that it's for people who don't want Microsoft (although that is the case for many people); I think it's the rock-solid stability and sense of control that attracts many people to it.

k99goran
December 16th, 2007, 11:47 PM
On the other hand there are many who would argue that the near total monopoly Microsoft enjoys is responsible for strangling genuine innovation in PC hardware.
Others would argue Microsoft is making the PC hardware manufacturers push newer components in their computers and forcing people to upgrade thanks to Vistas eh... girth.

Personally I feel some sympathy for Microsoft as they are a victim of their own success. If they behaved like Apple, with the market share they are enjoying they would probably not be allowed to sell anything in the EU. I mean, could you imagine if Windows would only ran on Microsoft computers?
Of course, their success also means that even if they stumble, they still win.

frup
December 17th, 2007, 01:18 AM
Personally I feel some sympathy for Microsoft as they are a victim of their own success. If they behaved like Apple, with the market share they are enjoying they would probably not be allowed to sell anything in the EU. I mean, could you imagine if Windows would only ran on Microsoft computers?


I don't think that is 100% accurate, because if they behaved like that there would still be more competitors, companies like Dell, HP etc. would all have their own OS's or use something else, like the pre MS days. Quite simply, if windows only ran on MS hardware, they would probably be lucky to have over 30% market share.

k99goran
December 17th, 2007, 01:59 AM
I don't think that is 100% accurate, because if they behaved like that there would still be more competitors, companies like Dell, HP etc. would all have their own OS's or use something else, like the pre MS days.Quite simply, if windows only ran on MS hardware, they would probably be lucky to have over 30% market share.
Probably. :)

gn2
December 17th, 2007, 02:23 AM
Others would argue Microsoft is making the PC hardware manufacturers push newer components in their computers and forcing people to upgrade thanks to Vistas eh... girth.


Indeed, I would be among them, but the difficulty is that the upgrades are just enhanced vesions of what has gone before.

I'm talking about new ideas, stuff that's fundamentally different.

macogw
December 17th, 2007, 06:12 AM
Perhaps that's a genuine argument for someone, but for myself I believe in understanding history from a historical dialectical/analytical method and not a hypothetical method instead. Partly because making general assumptions with out understanding the current situation, bends fact in to a parallel direction which is obviously controlled by a nearly infinite number of possibilities.

Well, you can't argue that it hasn't limited most hardware to being x86 stuff. SPARC and PowerPC might've had more of a chance if Windows was cross-platform.

kazuya
December 17th, 2007, 06:53 PM
people use linux for different reason. I still have miscrosft apps I run, although very rarely. My reason for using linux is that not only is it seemingly free for use, but that it affords m as a user access to so many high quality software equivalents that i would otherwise be unable to afford using a microsoft windows platform. I cut my use of microsoft products unless where these products are truly deserving of the money spen on them..

Currently, all my needs are satisfied by Gnu Linux. Nothwisthstanding Microsoft still makes some okay products and some very good products that users may require depending on who you are. For most people's needs currently, this is not quite as much as it used to be.

Not wanting microsoft is due cost for some folks, despise for the monopilistic perception by some, and for many just because in windows OS, all they use are Gnu linux types opensource apps which perform adequately for the price of free versus their very expensive microsoft counterpart, unless one is a pirate.

I use Linux at work, but even that is about to change. 99 % of what most people do at work could be attained easily in a Gnu Linux environment for cheaper costs.. Not to mention, less bugs..

I say all this, but there are instances were I like microsoft as well. In an economical sense and quality control sense, it seems much better to use the linux equivalent than the microsoft ones.. Microsoft is still a company that produces some good products..But you can argue that apple produces a much better product per certain user needs and wants. And yet the cost for some users is just too much. This is changing gradually though.

This topic would not get a correct answer....

Sephoroth
December 19th, 2007, 03:43 AM
I don't dislike Microsoft/Windows (I prefer them to Apple by quite a bit) I simply prefer the atmosphere of much of the Linux crowd as well as the extent to which one can customize Linux software. Most of my needs are satisfied by Ubuntu. For the ones that aren't, I dual boot with Windows.

Vaelrith
December 19th, 2007, 04:08 AM
Sure, Linux can help people who don't like Windows, but to me, Windows and Microsoft don't go exactly stride for stride.

How can I get rid of my xbox 360? I can't.
How can I get rid of Windows Vista? Ubuntu.

Incense
December 19th, 2007, 05:14 PM
I don't dislike Microsoft/Windows (I prefer them to Apple by quite a bit) I simply prefer the atmosphere of much of the Linux crowd as well as the extent to which one can customize Linux software. Most of my needs are satisfied by Ubuntu. For the ones that aren't, I dual boot with Windows.

I like to read posts like this, where people want to come to linux because they like the community and they just want to use linux.