Speaking other languages is against Ubuntu's principles

[mellowd]

Note from pricechild: original thread http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=621100

And yet this is a direct question to Hungarians? English may be the common language but not the only language?

[LaRoza]

And yet this is a direct question to Hungarians? English may be the common language but not the only language?

I think it was meant that in general, english is used on this forum, except when the intended audience understands the language used. This is in the Cafe, where the english language is used mostly, so it is excluding the rest of the community.

You might be interested in: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HungarianTeam

[Balazs_noob]

sorry guys ;)

[mellowd]

Mostly but not complete. This is why I put it in the cafe.

Not only that, but I think this kind of 'rule' goes against the very grain of the philosophy of Ubuntu

[LaRoza]

Not only that, but I think this kind of 'rule' goes against the very grain of the philosophy of Ubuntu

It isn't a rule that requires english, only


Please strive to communicate with other users as effectively as possible:


This means a defacto english standard, as it is in most computer fields. The GNU coding standards almost require comments in code to be in english. It is not a bias, but a rule to facilitate communication.

I have no problem with it, and others probably don't. It is a Cafe topic and not a support question.

[mellowd]

It isn't a rule that requires english, only



This means a defacto english standard, as it is in most computer fields. The GNU coding standards almost require comments in code to be in english. It is not a bias, but a rule to facilitate communication.

I have no problem with it, and others probably don't. It is a Cafe topic and not a support question.

Thanks, and I agree with you. Which is why I'm wondering why PriceChild posted that link with no explanation

[LaRoza]

Thanks, and I agree with you. Which is why I'm wondering why PriceChild posted that link with no explanation

Perhaps PriceChild didn't understand the post, and perhaps though the contents were necessary to understand, maybe a support question.

If there were an issue, PriceChild would have said more, I guess the fulfilment of the Moderator's duties just included letting you all know of the general state of the forum.

By the way, it looks like an interesting language.

[PriceChild]

This forum is English speaking.

There are subforums for LoCo channels available on request.

There are many reasons for requesting only English on the main forums... one big one being "how do the mods know you're not attacking other users in a language they don't understand"

[mellowd]

Seems the principle and the philosophy of Ubuntu are on 2 seperate pages

[bapoumba]

Ok ok, la moindre des choses aurait été de fournir a minima une traduction, de façon à ce que tout le monde en profite.

See?

[mellowd]

Ok ok, la moindre des choses aurait été de fournir a minima une traduction, de façon à ce que tout le monde en profite.

See?

But as I said, it was a question directed to Hungarians

[bapoumba]

But as I said, it was a question directed to Hungarians
I understand, but at least providing a translation so that everyone benefits would have been.. polite.

Lots of people around here speak several languages, and English is a common tool on this international forum. Would you sneak a piece of another language in a script?

There is no Hungarian LoCo team, but there is a mailing list:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-hu
May be that would be a better place to ask?

I can also write my posts in French, only for French-speaking people to read and answer. I'm not sure where our community would go if we all start doing this.

[mellowd]

I understand, but at least providing a translation so that everyone benefits would have been.. polite.

Lots of people around here speak several languages, and English is a common tool on this international forum. Would you sneak a piece of another language in a script?

There is no Hungarian LoCo team, but there is a mailing list:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-hu
May be that would be a better place to ask?

I can also write my posts in French, only for French-speaking people to read and answer. I'm not sure where our community would go if we all start doing this.

I understand where you are coming from, but this is why it was a post in the cafe and not a more serious part of the forum. It was a specific question asking how many here speak Hungarian so I saw no need to write it in English. I also find it polite to ask such a question in their own language.

[bapoumba]

I understand where you are coming from, but this is why it was a post in the cafe and not a more serious part of the forum. It was a specific question asking how many here speak Hungarian so I saw no need to write it in English. I also find it polite to ask such a question in their own language.

Yes and no.

There are international LoCo sub-forums on UF, using their own language, with specific sub-forums mods. I do not speak Catalan or Tamil etc., but we provide a facility for these teams because they cannot/do not want to maintain a forum of their own.

Now any other place on UF is English speaking, and it did create some questioning about the use of another language. As I said, many users are not native English speakers, and could use their own language for casual discussion, then support discussion, and we would end up with a big mess.

In any international gathering, either people speak a common language they all understand, or real time translations are provided. Starting a post in another language works towards excluding anyone not understanding that language, which is unfortunate.

I understand you did not want to bother other non-Hungarian speaking users, but keep in mind this is a very busy forum with a large audience.

[mellowd]

In any international gathering, either people speak a common language they all understand, or real time translations are provided. Starting a post in another language works towards excluding anyone not understanding that language, which is unfortunate.

And what of those who don't understand english?

[bapoumba]

And what of those who don't understand english?
Regarding Ubuntu, there are LoCo teams (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList). If they do not have a forum of their own, they can request we host it.
http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=183

[Nunu]

Guys Relax no need to fight it would be nice to have a English translation of what was said in another language that way we can learn ubuntu and another language.

For instance in Afrikaans the above would have been said as: Ouens onspan. Dis nie nodag om te bakly nie Dit sal lekker gewees het as daar 'n vertaaling was sodat ons ubuntu en 'n ander taal kan leer.

See no harm done (Sien geen Skaade gedoen nie)

[PriceChild]

How do I know what you just said isn't defamatory, offensive etc. etc. etc. ?

The rule on languages is not there to prevent english speaking people being excluded, it is there so that the forum can be managed effectively. This is why subforums with moderators speaking the native language are permitted to use that language.

[Joeb454]

I can understand both sides of this, though I am a native English speaker, I can understand those who do not speak English well posting in their native language.

However, if I recall correctly, English is the "International Business Language" I don't know why, or who decided, but that's fine.

Another example is that I speak some Spanish, and if I see a Spanish post, I will try and help to the best of my ability, if I can't, I move on :)

[hyper_ch]

However, if I recall correctly, English is the "International Business Language" I don't know why, or who decided, but that's fine.
The British Empire and its colonies and later on the US due to their military and economic strength...

Same goes for diplomatic language still being french... also the internal language at the ECJ, ECHR, EFTA court - and I also think at the international criminal court in Den Haag - is french.

English is just widespread, fairly easy to learn so it's not a bad thing.

[LaRoza]

English is just widespread, fairly easy to learn so it's not a bad thing.

"Fairly easy to learn"?

I am all for Esperanto being the default language. I haven't learned it yet (fully) but it is an incredibly easy language to learn and only has two flaws that I see.

The flaws are, IMO:

* No gender neutral pronoun (seems like that would be something useful in a designed language)
* Odd alphabet, although the pronounciation never changes for each letter, so it isn't that bad.

[hyper_ch]

English is the simplest language that I can speak...

[LaRoza]

English is the simplest language that I can speak...

What languages do you know?

(I am a native english speaker, but I think the languages os spanish and german are easier to learn)

[p_quarles]

What languages do you know?

(I am a native english speaker, but I think the languages os spanish and german are easier to learn)
They all have their own difficulties, I guess. English can be difficult simply because there's not a lot of consistency in terms of orthography and phonetics. The grammar of the language is really very simple, though. German and Spanish, on the other hand, are very consistent about the relationship between letters and sounds, but their grammar is more complex.

What makes English "simple" compared to many other languages is the fact that it makes little use of moods and cases, and a great deal of its conjugation is redundant (you were, they were, we were). What isn't simple about English is the lexicon: it's one of the largest languages in the world (if not the largest).

[LaRoza]

They all have their own difficulties, I guess. English can be difficult simply because there's not a lot of consistency in terms of orthography and phonetics. The grammar of the language is really very simple, though. German and Spanish, on the other hand, are very consistent about the relationship between letters and sounds, but their grammar is more complex.

What makes English "simple" compared to many other languages is the fact that it makes little use of moods and cases, and a great deal of its conjugation is redundant (you were, they were, we were). What isn't simple about English is the lexicon: it's one of the largest languages in the world (if not the largest).

I see now.

There are no rules in english that are really rules.

I like that english doesn't have genders/moods/cases often anymore. (Old English did)

Esperanto takes all these difficulties out of the language. Its simplicity is what I like the most.

[Kingsley]

I see now.

There are no rules in english that are really rules.

I like that english doesn't have genders/moods/cases often anymore. (Old English did)

Esperanto takes all these difficulties out of the language. Its simplicity is what I like the most.
I like that English doesn't sound nearly as bad or unnatural as Esperanto. English or German over that crap any day, sorry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xor7W2yZIA

[p_quarles]

There are no rules in english that are really rules.
There are definitely rules (the intelligibility of any language depends on this) but they are less intricate than in many other langauges.

I like that english doesn't have genders/moods/cases often anymore. (Old English did)
It's definitely amusing for a native English speaker to learn the "genders" assigned to inanimate objects in other languages. In French, e.g., a hat is masculine, and snow is feminine.

Moods and cases are used in English, but again there is less complexity. The main moods are indicative and imperative, but the subjunctive is used in a few circumstances. E.g., "I wish that I were a millionnaire."

The only two noun cases that are actually declined in English are the nominative and the genitive. For everything else, pronouns are used. This is one instance in which the major Romance languages are actually simpler: French and Spanish only use the nominative case.

Esperanto takes all these difficulties out of the language. Its simplicity is what I like the most.
Spoken like a programmer ;) I actually love the intricacies that languages take on as they develop over time. Most poetry would be impossible without them.

[LaRoza]

There are definitely rules (the intelligibility of any language depends on this) but they are less intricate than in many other langauges.

It's definitely amusing for a native English speaker to learn the "genders" assigned to inanimate objects in other languages. In French, e.g., a hat is masculine, and snow is feminine.

Spoken like a programmer ;) I actually love the intricacies that languages take on as they develop over time. Most poetry would be impossible without them.

I haven't seen an english rule that doesn't have an exception.

The genders never really made sense to me, it seems quite odd.

I wouldn't want esperanto to be a primary language, but for international use. It is a language that can be learned very quickly, and is very simple.

As to the reference it doesn't sound natural by Kingsley, and that it is "crap", French sounds very odd to me and unnatural, and any language not spoken fluently (except english when spoken by people with romance language accents) sounds awkward/unnatural/bad.

[p_quarles]

I haven't seen an english rule that doesn't have an exception.
Consider the rules that went into the construction of that very sentence. The following would have made no sense:
Ihavet seenn't an english I rule exception that doesn't have an

[LaRoza]

Consider the rules that went into the construction of that very sentence. The following would have made no sense:

?

[Sef]

English can be difficult simply because there's not a lot of consistency in terms of orthography and phonetics.

That fault lies with the printing press. It came to England while the language was changing from middle English to modern English. Thus we speak modern English, but write in middle English.

What isn't simple about English is the lexicon: it's one of the largest languages in the world (if not the largest).

It has the largest lexicon of any language. With all jargon, over 1,000,000 words, without jargon: about 600,000.

[LaRoza]

It has the largest lexicon of any language. With all jargon, over 1,000,000 words, without jargon: about 600,000.

Wow, Esperanto only has 900 words (at first, it has evolved and assimilated other words since then)

[hyper_ch]

Well, having a lexicon with over 1 mio words doesn't necessarily make it difficult. One needs to ask how much do you need to know to get a long on a day-to-day basis? And for that the vocabulary doesn't need to be that extensive.

I read LotR, Silmarillion, The Hobbit in english and there are plenty of words that I have never encountered before and nevere again since... those were mostly descriptive ones... words that you don't really need to know - you will just get an idea, an impression of what they mean.

When reading a text you do not need to fully understand each word but the meaning behind the whole context. That's how I "survived" latin at school. My vocabulary wasn't the best in my class (well, applies for french or spanish or italian...) but I succeeded by grasping of what is being said as a whole.