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View Full Version : The news item "Automatix lands a Linux user in trouble"



Kilz
November 20th, 2007, 12:47 PM
There is a story on ITWire (http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/15408/1091/)about Ubuntu and Automatix. From reading it I get the impression that all of Automatix's troubles have not been fixed.
It would be a sad thing if we loose new users to such.

PmDematagoda
November 20th, 2007, 01:01 PM
I myself fell prey to Automatix's damaging effects, I lost the GUI after installing Virtual Box and the applications installed by it were not properly configured which lead to them and a number of other applications being unstable.

If Automatix is improved, it's configuration methods refined and it's install methods being more risk-free, then it would be beneficial to new Linux users, but at it's current state I prefer good old compiling and am also warning users of the possible dangers of Automatix whenever it is necessary.

n3tfury
November 20th, 2007, 01:02 PM
i've never understood the fascination with automatix.

PmDematagoda
November 20th, 2007, 01:08 PM
i've never understood the fascination with automatix.

The fact is that it can be used to install many applications including some non-free ones with apparent ease, this would probably the greatest pull towards Automatix as new Linux users do usually like to have everything as simple as possible(I myself was one of them until I realised that compiling or using Synaptic is far more effective and clean).

jarvis13
November 20th, 2007, 01:13 PM
With Add/Remove and Restricted-Manager, there's no need to use automatix. it's done nothing but mess up systems since Dapper.

Nunu
November 20th, 2007, 01:33 PM
Synaptic rock... There are so many apps available on it, Some of them would probably even have solved Stans Encrypted DVD problems.

n3tfury
November 20th, 2007, 01:49 PM
The fact is that it can be used to install many applications including some non-free ones with apparent ease, this would probably the greatest pull towards Automatix as new Linux users do usually like to have everything as simple as possible(I myself was one of them until I realised that compiling or using Synaptic is far more effective and clean).

i don't see that as a fact. ubuntu was my first linux OS and i was able to install all the apps i wanted with relative ease. it's not hard.

PmDematagoda
November 20th, 2007, 02:13 PM
i don't see that as a fact. ubuntu was my first linux OS and i was able to install all the apps i wanted with relative ease. it's not hard.

It isn't that hard now, but when people start fresh on a new OS they haven't even seen before, they always have that problem.

While it is very easy to install everything you need through the repositories, it would not be that easy for Ubuntu beginners since unless they read something on Ubuntu and it's installation methods, they wouldn't know what the repositories are, what they are used for and how they can be used. This causes them to follow the normal methods which are usually associated with Windows which is "Get to the web site where the setup can be downloaded, get it and click it", this does not apply on applications such as Firefox or Realplayer since they give their applications as .tar.gz or .bin which cannot be opened up the way like in a Windows OS which would cause them to start having second thoughts about Ubuntu as a good OS for them.

Also when it comes to reading DVD's you need a special package libdvdcss2, since this is not found in the normal repositories it would be very confusing for new Ubuntu users as they try and find it everywhere, this problem is escalated by the fact that the video player does not usually report the user of an absent package that is required to play a DVD unless it is a codec.

So once again, Automatix is supposed to be very useful for people who have no idea on how to install applications on Linux as it can be used to install applications such as Cross-Over Office and Realplayer. But since Automatix can cause more problems than fixing them, it would really cause Ubuntu users to forget about Ubuntu and Linux due to the idea that "Ubuntu is very buggy and is very non-user friendly" by their experience with Automatix.

fuscia
November 20th, 2007, 02:35 PM
i knew that name sounded familiar. http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/3358/106/

at the time, i sent him an email...

"stan,

apparently, you are unfamiliar with iso files. this file format, like plugging in your computer, exists outside of the ubuntu world and even outside of the linux world. it astonishes me that an it writer would be unfamiliar with search engines like google and wikipedia to the point where you can't find some information on how to deal with this common file type. you do know about ubuntu, though, so it's hard for me to believe you couldn't have found this page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BurningIsoHowto?highlight=%28iso%29 "And really, how difficult should it be to download an installation CD-ROM and install the thing?" if an end user like me can do it in 45 minutes, i should think a wiley it writer, like you, could do the same."


mr. beer's response...

"Sorry to disappoint you Mike, but what seems obvious to some is not always so to others. However, fortunately the Ubuntu documentation team didn’t take your view. They congratulated me on the article and told me that they will now include a link to the Wiki page you refer to on the download page, which is where it should have been in the first place.

Cheers

Stan"


he blocked my response. (i might have been a little snippy.)

i've never had trouble with automatix, but i have had trouble with other pieces of software [ah]e17[/choo!] that have never received half the ire that automatix does. it would be nice if we could seperate the technical issues from the emotional issues.

n3tfury
November 20th, 2007, 02:42 PM
It isn't that hard now, but when people start fresh on a new OS they haven't even seen before, they always have that problem.

While it is very easy to install everything you need through the repositories, it would not be that easy for Ubuntu beginners since unless they read something on Ubuntu and it's installation methods, they wouldn't know what the repositories are, what they are used for and how they can be used. This causes them to follow the normal methods which are usually associated with Windows which is "Get to the web site where the setup can be downloaded, get it and click it", this does not apply on applications such as Firefox or Realplayer since they give their applications as .tar.gz or .bin which cannot be opened up the way like in a Windows OS which would cause them to start having second thoughts about Ubuntu as a good OS for them.

Also when it comes to reading DVD's you need a special package libdvdcss2, since this is not found in the normal repositories it would be very confusing for new Ubuntu users as they try and find it everywhere, this problem is escalated by the fact that the video player does not usually report the user of an absent package that is required to play a DVD unless it is a codec.

So once again, Automatix is supposed to be very useful for people who have no idea on how to install applications on Linux as it can be used to install applications such as Cross-Over Office and Realplayer. But since Automatix can cause more problems than fixing them, it would really cause Ubuntu users to forget about Ubuntu and Linux due to the idea that "Ubuntu is very buggy and is very non-user friendly" by their experience with Automatix.

maybe you didn't read what i wrote. i had no experience with linux before Feisty. Feisty wasn't much "harder" than Gutsy.

so7777777os
November 20th, 2007, 02:55 PM
It isn't that hard now, but when people start fresh on a new OS they haven't even seen before, they always have that problem.

While it is very easy to install everything you need through the repositories, it would not be that easy for Ubuntu beginners since unless they read something on Ubuntu and it's installation methods, they wouldn't know what the repositories are, what they are used for and how they can be used. This causes them to follow the normal methods which are usually associated with Windows which is "Get to the web site where the setup can be downloaded, get it and click it", this does not apply on applications such as Firefox or Realplayer since they give their applications as .tar.gz or .bin which cannot be opened up the way like in a Windows OS which would cause them to start having second thoughts about Ubuntu as a good OS for them.

Also when it comes to reading DVD's you need a special package libdvdcss2, since this is not found in the normal repositories it would be very confusing for new Ubuntu users as they try and find it everywhere, this problem is escalated by the fact that the video player does not usually report the user of an absent package that is required to play a DVD unless it is a codec.

So once again, Automatix is supposed to be very useful for people who have no idea on how to install applications on Linux as it can be used to install applications such as Cross-Over Office and Realplayer. But since Automatix can cause more problems than fixing them, it would really cause Ubuntu users to forget about Ubuntu and Linux due to the idea that "Ubuntu is very buggy and is very non-user friendly" by their experience with Automatix.
I think your viewpoints is so right,because i'm a noob .
Now,i also have so many problems in Ubuntu and OS often .....(you know it),but i never give it up.
There're many experts like you will help these noobs out as me.........

PmDematagoda
November 20th, 2007, 03:20 PM
maybe you didn't read what i wrote. i had no experience with linux before Feisty. Feisty wasn't much "harder" than Gutsy.

I wasn't referring to only yourself n3tfury, I was also talking about others who do not have the time to try and adjust to Linux, but a lot of it also depends on the character of the Linux beginner. If the user does not have the will power or patience to try and adjust to Linux and cannot figure it out within the first few hours, then he would simply forget about it regardless of the amount of time he can spare, and like so7777777os said, the user who does have the will power and patience would try to adjust to Linux and spend time reading wiki's, documentation and asking for help on the forums even though they may have issues concerning the amount of time they can spare.

aysiu
November 20th, 2007, 04:47 PM
i've never understood the fascination with automatix.
Automatix was very fascinating back around Ubuntu 5.10 (Breezy Badger), because you had to do about a million little things to get Ubuntu working right.

Now, not so much.

And if beginners "need" a lot of proprietary stuff, they should just get Linux Mint instead of vanilla Ubuntu. Otherwise, it's not that had to enable it on Ubuntu (takes about as much work as figuring out how to install and use Automatix).

SomeGuyDude
November 21st, 2007, 09:16 AM
i don't see that as a fact. ubuntu was my first linux OS and i was able to install all the apps i wanted with relative ease. it's not hard.

Put Swiftweasel on without Automatix. The only feasible way is to try and figure out which of the 50 versions on SW's project page is right. And if you're like me and have an Intel Core 2 Duo none of the filenames seem applicable.

Automatix is convenient (though I only use it as a last resort, I much prefer Synaptic).

yaye
November 22nd, 2007, 05:16 PM
First, when I came across the title of the article, I thought the "user" got into some type of legal trouble. I guess the title was a good way to get hits for the website.

Second, did the author of the article sit with his friend all the time he was using Ubuntu? If he didn't, how is he certain that Automatix caused the problem? To me, the author comes to a conclusion (that Automatix caused the problem) without enough evidence to support it.

starcannon
November 23rd, 2007, 10:43 AM
Automatix works for me /shrug makes getting things like quicktime and realplayer fast and simple.
To each their own, I like it so I use it. I can live with out it if it ever goes away, its just a nice utility that does some of the work for me allowing me to do other things.

SunnyRabbiera
November 23rd, 2007, 11:07 AM
well hey installing automatix is a good tool for total newbs, and its just as easy to uninstall as it is to install in the first place

K.Mandla
November 23rd, 2007, 11:41 AM
i knew that name sounded familiar.
Oh criminy. I remember Stan Beer. The IT writer that couldn't burn an ISO. :shock: #-o ](*,)

Sometimes I'm very happy that I left journalism.