reply with your thoughts DRM!!!

[fig_jam_uk]

Who thinks DRM sucks and why?

I personnally think it sucks because the few sites my wife visits require windoze media player 10 to work, to as they say "to protect videos against unauthorised re-distrobution" WTF!! so this is going to stop people from using their TV cards etc to rip music video`s, i think NOT!!!

Anyways i dont like it mainly because it makes Micro$oft look like a caring corporation doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, my a$$ more like its for the dollar$. this makes other corporations feel safe using Micro$o£t and pushes the end user into using microwhore windoze...

I say down to DRM, this madness should be stopped before it goes too far, whatever happened to being free to make your own decisions weather they be right or wrong???

Who else agrees??? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[cwaldbieser]

DRM is an attempt to apply a technological solution to a social problem. Experience has taught me that this does not usually produce a satisfactory result.

The technical response itself also seems like it is fraught with problems. Publishers want to sell something to you, but they also want to retain control over it. I'm not sure how anyone can attempt that kind of control without control over the entire infrastructure as well.

So to sum up-- I think DRM is a poor idea.

[Mishura]

Simple fact: If I buy it: It's MINE.

That means, if I want to rip my DVD movie, rip out all of the FBI Warnings, forced trailers, crappy animated menus, or even back it up as a xvid on my computer; I am fully entitled to do so. Same goes for any digital media (Music, books, movies, etc..)

No company should have (or WILL have) any kind of control over MY stuff, and "Intellectual Property" is the most stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

So yeah, Down with DRM, down with any company that supports it, and DEATH TO CLOSED FORMATS AND PROTOCOLS!! Long live Free Software and Open formats!

[gravestone]

I believe the penalties for breach of DRM is worse than one would get for rape, murder, pillage, plunder etc.

The whole DRM thing is a joke. It doesn't work. If they don't support Linux, I spend my money elsewhere. If enough people start doing it, they'll eventually get the message.

[incinerator]

could a moderator please close this thread or move it into a forum it belongs in?

[xequence]

I aggree. THey are all just selfish idiots that cant deal with the fact that they need to think of something new... DRM wont stop people who accually try... Play if off your speakers to a cable that goes right back into your line in jack on your sound card. Record it :)

[npaladin2000]

Companies have been trying to get around the whole "fair use" thing for YEARS...ever since tape recorders (probably since wire recorders) came out. If something happens to your copy of your music, they don't want you to have a backup, they want you to pay them for another copy. It's not going to fly very far...DRM is too restrictive the way it's implemented now. If you buy something, you're entitled ot use it on a device you own. They want to change that so NOW you have to buy a copy for EACH device you want to play it on. DRM is step 1 in that process.

Just another way for people to try and make more money without any additional work.

[mstlyevil]

Any time they come up with some new technology to stop ILLEGAL use, someone figures out a way to bypass it. All this is going to do is ripoff the honest dolt that hasn't figured out yet he is being taken to the bank. People like you or me are always going to find a way around it and fight back. I don't have a problem paying for a CD I really like, but I refuse to pay 20 bucks for crap. If all they have is one or 2 good songs on that cd, i refuse to buy it. I'll be damned if I am going to subscribe to some service to buy one song and then have them limit the equipment i can play it on. Can you boys and girls say IPOD.

[fig_jam_uk]

Any time they come up with some new technology to stop ILLEGAL use, someone figures out a way to bypass it. All this is going to do is ripoff the honest dolt that hasn't figured out yet he is being taken to the bank. People like you or me are always going to find a way around it and fight back. I don't have a problem paying for a CD I really like, but I refuse to pay 20 bucks for crap. If all they have is one or 2 good songs on that cd, i refuse to buy it. I'll be damned if I am going to subscribe to some service to buy one song and then have them limit the equipment i can play it on. Can you boys and girls say IPOD.

IPOD...

This SUX on an equal to DRM scale :roll:

[Kvark]

I think some posters here use a bit too strong wording in their posts.

Let's just say that... "Digital Rights Management", "Copyright" and all that stuff about rights... It all gives someone the rights to restrict others... And then demand money to lift some of the restrictions... It would make a lot more sence if it was named "Digital Restrictions Management", "Copyrestriction" and so on.

The whole deal with trying to apply an economical system designed around physical costly-to-duplicate property to digital cost-free-to-duplicate intellectual concepts just makes me dizzy. I'll just stick to GNU/Linux, the movies that happen to run on TV and the music they play on the radio.

[fig_jam_uk]

I think some posters here use a bit too strong wording in their posts.

Let's just say that... "Digital Rights Management", "Copyright" and all that stuff about rights... It all gives someone the rights to restrict others... And then demand money to lift some of the restrictions... It would make a lot more sence if it was named "Digital Restrictions Management", "Copyrestriction" and so on.

The whole deal with trying to apply an economical system designed around physical costly-to-duplicate property to digital cost-free-to-duplicate intellectual concepts just makes me dizzy. I'll just stick to GNU/Linux, the movies that happen to run on TV and the music they play on the radio.

restrictions fair enough but when it stops the likes op myself who would like to see streaming video and i am blocked from seeing this content because i dont use a DRM compliant O/S i cant see it even though im an upstanding citizen who pays for their music etc, this makes me not a happy bunny!! ](*,) so i dont think the language is harsh as the like of myself are being restricted from what i would like to do on the internet...

[Takis]

You should have another option:
"c. Waste of time because it'll be cracked 10 minutes into its official release"

[occy8]

To copy music has always been illegal, but for different reasons it has always been done.
I used to tape music from the radio, then they introduced DRM to talk over the song or to cut it off with an add. That was when I was a kid and had hardly any money to buy records. Now we can buy CD's with copy protection, so you can't make a copy for your car or walkman or mp3player, unless you know how to copy it regardless.
Same for DRM . Downloading mp3's for money sucks, it's cheaper to buy a cd unless you just want one song, the quality is much worse, can't copy it so whats the point.

But there are heaps of websites out there promoting free music free legal music, downloading it will help the musicians. One of my favourites http://music.download.com/

[PatrickMay16]

I think some posters here use a bit too strong wording in their posts.

Let's just say that... "Digital Rights Management", "Copyright" and all that stuff about rights... It all gives someone the rights to restrict others... And then demand money to lift some of the restrictions... It would make a lot more sence if it was named "Digital Restrictions Management", "Copyrestriction" and so on.

The whole deal with trying to apply an economical system designed around physical costly-to-duplicate property to digital cost-free-to-duplicate intellectual concepts just makes me dizzy. I'll just stick to GNU/Linux, the movies that happen to run on TV and the music they play on the radio.
Digital Restrictions Management... Nathan Lineback said the same thing. By any chance, would you happen to visit this site: http://toastytech.com/ a lot?

But yeah, this DRM stuff has got to stop.

On a side note, it seems that arts like music, film making, etc are all dominated by big businesses and you can't make music or make a film unless a big company is backing you on it. And some people want to be singers or musicians or whatever just so they can be rich and famous (see TV shows like Pop Idol, etc). I really hate that.

[WildTangent]

people will only take this a**raping for so long before they start to petition their local polititians to do something about it. for me, it really doesnt matter. as long as there are people with large collections of music, that arent restricted sharing them on the P2P networks, ill be fine. i still buy my movies, and i only ever play them in my DVD player, so music is all i worry about.

-Wild

[mstlyevil]

The music industry no longer allows bands the freedom to record what they want. The last time the industry embraced innovation was when Nirvana accidently became a big hit and knocked the king of child molesters off the charts. Now unless you fit some mold or formula, you will not see your record on a major label. The pirating of music has nothing to do with poor album sales. The problem lies in that most of the stuff the radio stations play and the major labels release is pure garbage. Why should someone fork over $20 for a CD with maybe one good song on it. DRM and these other attempts to raise revenue are going to backfire horribly.

[npaladin2000]

The music industry no longer allows bands the freedom to record what they want. The last time the industry embraced innovation was when Nirvana accidently became a big hit and knocked the king of child molesters off the charts. Now unless you fit some mold or formula, you will not see your record on a major label. The pirating of music has nothing to do with poor album sales. The problem lies in that most of the stuff the radio stations play and the major labels release is pure garbage. Why should someone fork over $20 for a CD with maybe one good song on it. DRM and these other attempts to raise revenue are going to backfire horribly.

Hey, it's the "in" fad, started by Microsoft: "Why work so hard improving your product when you can just hold a gun to people's head to get them to buy?"

[professor_chaos]

I live by the code of the GPL, even if it's not licensed that way.

It's mine when I obtain it legally. I can do what I want. If I can't do what I want, why would I buy it. **** thats like renting it. You don't own anything anymore!

Long live GNU!

[KiwiNZ]

Yep if there were no thieves there would be no locks:-|

And lets be careful with this thread I dont want to see suggestions and ideas for circumventing the law

[Knome_fan]

Yep if there were no thieves there would be no locks:-|


I know this is not where you are getting it, but this is not about theft.
At worst it's about infringing someones copyright, but often it's only about not being able to exercise ones rights anymore.

Refer to Kvark's excelent post for further detail.

[Hamman]

Yep if there were no thieves there would be no locks:-|

And lets be careful with this thread I dont want to see suggestions and ideas for circumventing the law
For me my dislike of DRM has nothing to do with being able to to download pirated mp3s. I'm one of the few in my class who actually BUYS CDs. In my opinion, sure, sue those who leech all their music (not saying I'm not doing it myself sometimes), but don't touch my rights of doing what I wan't with my CDs when I've bought them. If i want to rip them to flac and listen to them in Linux, why would you stop me? The people in "the scene" will always find ways of getting movies onto the net, even if they have to steal them. DRM will only affect normal people who will have to buy several copies in order to be able to play them everywhere.
Hopefully, people will refuse to buy this ****, but since most doesn't really know much about it, they will probably fall for Apples/MicroSofts commercial and buy all of their music online instead.
No, DRM simply gains one part: The seller. Lets face it: the music companys have a monopoly. I mean, if you want a car, you buy one with good preformance and reputation. BMW behaving like ****? No problem, just buy a Mercedes instead.
Led Zeppelins record company funding the removal of your freedom? There's no substitute to Zeppelin. I either buy Zeppelin or nothing. And the companies knows this and are exploiting it as much as they can.

[WirelessMike]

http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/drm_paper.php

Here's my favorite part:
DRM can't benefit local cultural production

In many countries, local culture industries have been intensively lobbied by DRM companies and foreign media giants to convince them that DRM is the key to their long-term health. But DRM — which does *not* stop the unauthorized recirculation of work and which does *not* ever pay artists — turns every producer and consumer of culture into a customer of DRM companies.

A useful analogy can be drawn to the packaged software industry's flirtation with DRM in the 1980s. At the height of this boom, DRM schemes were employed by virtually every software company, who required their customers to undertake burdensome, tedious rituals in order to use their software, such as keying in the response to "What is the tenth word of the third paragraph of the 275th page of the manual?"

The software companies of the day were convinced that their customers were crooks, and that they would rob them into the poorhouse, and so they implemented more and more measures that made it harder to use their products.

However, the thing that drove these companies out of business, by and large, was not customers who made illicit copies of their software. It was that a single player, Microsoft, gained control of 97 percent of the operating system market, and leveraged that control to destroy the healthiest market-segments in the industry.

For example, Delrina was a company that made the most popular fax software of its day. It used extensive countermeasures to fight its customers' copying.

But ultimately, the thing that destroyed Delrina was the inclusion of a free fax application that Microsoft developed and deployed with every copy of Windows. Once that had come to pass, no user would ever have a good reason to buy a fax package again.

Today, Microsoft and other DRM vendors have convinced many entertainment companies that they are doomed if they don't police their customers' behavior. They propose DRM as the answer to this.

But DRM is a lock-in technology. Culture industries that adopt DRM have to pay license fees to DRM vendors and seek their permission when they want to extend the functionality of DRM.

Just as in the 1980s, software companies were sold on policing customer behavior by DRM providers that ultimately drove them out of business, today, performers and authors and publishers are being sold the same bill of goods.
Summary

* DRM can't "keep honest users honest" — users are either honest or they aren't
* Adopting DRM locks your industries and your citizens into a DRM vendor for all time

[WirelessMike]

Yep if there were no thieves there would be no locks:-|

Actually, As long as there is money to be made from holding the keys, there will be locks, thieves or no.

[Lord Illidan]

DRM is evil when it does not let you do what you do with what you purchased. If I get a CD full of music, I want to be able to play it on whatever player I chose, and to rip it on whichever computer I want. I am not a pirate, so I will not sell it. However, if prices are this high, then I am forced to get an mp3...

The solution is simple, lower the prices. I am NOT going to pay over 20-30$ for a single CD when I can download the mp3s. If the cds get cheaper, ok, then I will start buying them. Mp3 quality is very near cd quality, unless you are an audiophile, but then I am not.

DVDs? I only have a few, namely of LOTR.. The extended editions of them all. I don't have any money to get anymore DVDs.. especially with the rampant price hikes in Malta.. (no credit card - otherwise play.com)

I don't get pirated dvds because the quality sucks, no special features, subtitles, etc otherwise, I would. However, I make do by watching Italian televised versions of most popular movies via satellite, at the same time, learning Italian for free.

What's more, the loss in profits the companies are making is probably due to the high prices factor and the fact that most new films and albums suck big time.. (Gwen Stefani?? Ew...)

If I like an album sufficiently enough, I will buy it, for example, The Fallen, but otherwise... no, no...

What about e-books? Last time I checked, you even have a time limit in which to read the books!! Give me a good ol paperback everytime. Aye, they are less portable, but then, they last a lifetime..

[Stormy Eyes]

Let the idiots play with DRM. I'll just find away around it and do what I will with my property regardless of what the corrupt law might say.

/American who holds the law and society in contempt

[KiwiNZ]

Remember , it is fine to debate the rights or wrongs of DRM . Just keep away from promoting illegal activity. We do need to be carefull

Thankyou

[Kvark]

Remember , it is fine to debate the rights or wrongs of DRM . Just keep away from promoting illegal activity. We do need to be carefull

Thankyou
Yeah, topics like this always gets dangerously close to that line. But I think most linux users know that there is no excuse for breaking the law since you can get alternative software that is legally gratis. There is movies on TV and you can get legal VHS casettes for $3.50 a piece now. And there is radio, web radio plus alternative music that isn't commercialized by the big record companies.

[mstlyevil]

Remember , it is fine to debate the rights or wrongs of DRM . Just keep away from promoting illegal activity. We do need to be carefull

Thankyou

I personally believe pirating software is wrong. There are too many free sources out there for a person to choose from. I also believe it is wrong to allow the freedoms of every individual to be trampled on to quote protect industry from piracy. Freedom is way more important than stolen software.

[fig_jam_uk]

Remember , it is fine to debate the rights or wrongs of DRM . Just keep away from promoting illegal activity. We do need to be carefull

Thankyou

Definatley agree this post was just to get thoughts not to find out the ways and means in wich to copy etc, etc

so come on guys and gals lets see what you have to say?

good to see so many people are against DRM tho... :grin:

and if you do think DRM is a good thing dont be afraid to post...

[KiwiNZ]

For me DRM is an over reaction to a problem which in the end will be unworkable.

It is like ... I have my home burgled , I put in 8 foot electrified fence and watch towers , security guards a moat and satelite survielence.

OK I stop future thieft but at what cost , in Dollars , useability etc .

What is a better approach is find out why we have the behavior and find ways elliminate the need to steal .
Example here in New Zealand to buy a copy of Windows XP full code it cost over $NZ700 this equates to over $US500. Given the avarage weekly income here is about $NZ450 after tax the motivation to steal Windows XP is guite high.

I believe there is real scope for price reductions and the price of XP could be considerably less than what is being sought. MS may have to lengthen their development cost recovery period by a year but considering it will 6 years plus between versions when Vista is inflicted on users they are creaming it on sales made now of XP.
This applies to a lot of products , especially , music and all software ( Open source excluded) .

How do we get the changes in price , simple , dont steal it , use alternatives.

When Windows 95 was born there was no real alternatives . When Vista is born there will be little alternatives to Linux.

[WirelessMike]

When Vista is born there will be little alternatives to Linux.
Very well put. I agree completely!

[gravestone]

I think it's a case of who is ripping who off. When I was young (a long time ago) we could buy an album on cassette, which self destructed after several months. Copying cassette to cassette usually resulted in worse quality. Buying another album solved the problem.

We then had the same problem with movies on video tape. They are useless within a couple of years. Then it's DVDs. I have several movie box sets on DVD, which are only a couple of years old, yet the disks are unplayable. Can't get a refund.

Now here is today's situation in Australia. I have an IPOD, which I use when cycling. I went to a music store and asked to buy an album in MP3 format. Got unpolitely told where to go. I tried several online MP3 stores, but got told I needed Windows. I changed the info sent by the browser, and got into one, but couldn't find any music I liked (Heavy Metal).

Due to the decrepid state of internet connections in West Australia, it's impossible to download anything large anyway, so downloading MP3s is out of the question.

So where does this leave us? We buy the CDs and convert them for use on the IPOD. This is illegal in Australia. But on one good side, for every MP3 on my IPOD, I have the CD album, so I'm not ripping the artist off.

But people here would buy MP3s if they could purchase them. In the future, I think the same will apply to movies, because of devices like the PSP, people are going to want their movies in a different format. If the movie companies don't meet the demand, then people are going to copy movies DRM or not.

I think it's a case of movie and music industry people also not keeping up with the times. There are people who would pay for alternative formats if they were available.

And don't say "buy it online and download", it doesn't work in Australia. The internet is a joke.

[fig_jam_uk]

Ok id say the majority of people dont like the idea of DRM, hell i deffinatley dont, something I own spying on me!!!

[angkor]

We buy the CDs and convert them for use on the IPOD. This is illegal in Australia.

*blinks*

It is? That's crazy.

I live in the Netherlands where it is still legal to download mp3s of p2p networks. It's only the uploading part that's illegal. (So downloading movies using torrents is illegal).

This will all probably change in a couple of years because of the entertainment industry's lobby of course, but I will always be ripping the cd's I bought for use on my iPod, whether it is legal or not. I bought the thing so I consider it mine.

DRM, I think, will never work...it will be unworkable or the pirates will find a way to circumvent it.