Open source games lack originality

[Ryoushi19]

It's no secret that most gamers on Linux either dual boot Windows or use wine to run windows games. Proprietary games are just better for some reason. But it's not because they're proprietary. Open source is completely capable of creating a perfectly good game, but there are several things holding it back.
First are the excuses. "Open source can't compete because it doesn't have the budget that a proprietary game does". Well, compiz fusion doesn't have the budget that Vista does, now does it? But guess what? Most people who see compiz fusion think it's cooler. It has more of something called "originality". While Vista copies Mac OSX repeatedly, Compiz creates something new. Another one is that "Open source can't advertise as well". How many times have you seen ads for Half life 2? Probably not many. That's because good games advertise themselves. "Open source doesn't have the organization that a corporation has", well neither did Counter Strike. It just started off as a mod of Half Life, and look at it now! It was so good they made it commercial.
No, Open Source games falter in that they have an utter lack of creativity and originality. Looking through the repos, you'll see the words "clone of", "similar to", and other things very frequently. Ask yourself, what's Mario "a clone of"? Absolutely nothing. Good games show that the developers acquired their material from within, not from outside. They give a new experience that the gamer just hasn't seen before. Half life 2 brought in a new era of physics, Counter Strike innovated by creating the round based FPS, Morrowind made a First person real time RPG, Empire Earth II revolutionized RTS multitasking, Dawn of war made new squad combat systems for better strategy than ever, and Battlefield 1942 revolutionized the use of vehicles on multi player FPS's. Every single game that gamers have come to know and love gave them something new, and open source games fail to deliver in that aspect, and that is why they don't compete. So I challenge the Open Source community to do one thing. Make a game that's not a clone, or a copy. Make something people haven't seen before. You'll find the results surprising.

[kyphi]

There is truth in what you say.

It is not only the lack of game support but also that there are programmes that were written to work on windows that do not have an equivalent in Linux. Hence we have to use crossover programmes or dual boot.

As for your challenge to the open source community, are you and I not a part of it?

[Ryoushi19]

We are parts of the open source community. I'm taking part in said challenge by pointing out what I think to be the biggest flaw in open source gaming.

[mysticmatrix]

Agreeing to post. Plus
1. Some Doom engine is GPL'ed
2. Ideas and Art-work are not opensourced, though they can be under Creative Commons license.

Umnn, why didn't Mods like CS appeared on Doom's engine?

[NoSmokingBandit]

Yeah, linux games are not original, but look at what the dev's have to work with. Most of these games are written from very basic pieces of pre-existing code or are mad just from scratch. Linux devs very rarely (or ever) have the time/resources of a big company. I think linux has great games for being free and stuff.

[mysticmatrix]

Yeah, linux games are not original, but look at what the dev's have to work with. Most of these games are written from very basic pieces of pre-existing code or are mad just from scratch. Linux devs very rarely (or ever) have the time/resources of a big company. I think linux has great games for being free and stuff.

ID, EpicGames --> Big Companies
IBM,Sun,RedHAT,Novell --> BIg Companies

Unreal,Doom,UT --> Big LINUX games

Why do people thinks that linux devs are unpaid and poor people ? :confused:

[Vadi]

Neverball, irrlamb, fungloids, planet penguin racer (yes I play that!), globulation, iteam, just to name a few...

Just pointing out that there are original titles. Otherwise, well, in a world where linux is only 1% of the market, the other 99% really gets to define "original".

Edit: As for CF, I know that a couple of the core devs are employed by Novell. Like their politics or not, I thank them for employing those people and letting them work on it.

[NoSmokingBandit]

ID, EpicGames --> Big Companies
IBM,Sun,RedHAT,Novell --> BIg Companies

Unreal,Doom,UT --> Big LINUX games

Why do people thinks that linux devs are unpaid and poor people ? :confused:

Generally the people that make games like Super Tux are unpaid and do it just because they can.

[cogadh]

There are a disproportionate number of big time developers making games for Windows only and although there are also small time developers doing the same, their work is greatly overshadowed by the big guys. The opposite is true of Linux. There are very few developers with the manpower and financial backing producing original Linux games and far too many many small-time developers with only a handful of people and little or no money producing poor clones of original games for Linux.

[daulex]

Generally the people that make games like Super Tux are unpaid and do it just because they can.

That's our answer.

random thoughts on this subject:

1. Open source is definitely the power and the future, but as countless experience shows, it takes time... a lot of time... a whole SH** load of time to develop into something competitive with the "paid for" systems...

2. Open source gaming does not sound too promising, it is just something we have at the moment because the big gaming companies do not think that "linux based systems" is a good market for them at the moment, once again give it some time and all the games will be available...

3. can't be asked to write more, wanna sleep (0:34 in the UK), ubuntu pwnz, windowz and maac suck balls.:lolflag:

[suupaabaka]

I wonder if Canonical will ever start up a games subsidiary, hiring talented artists, programmers and writers to make competetive games. That'd surely bring in more Linux converts.

[hikaricore]

I wonder if Canonical will ever start up a games subsidiary, hiring talented artists, programmers and writers to make competetive games. That'd surely bring in more Linux converts.

I forget where I saw it, but Mark Shuttleworth did say awhile back that Gaming was not a prime concern at this time. So unless something changes, it will be awhile (if ever) before things go that direction.

[KhaaL]

I forget where I saw it, but Mark Shuttleworth did say awhile back that Gaming was not a prime concern at this time. So unless something changes, it will be awhile (if ever) before things go that direction.

Understandable, but I'm sure that we - the gamers - can do something in order to bring quality games to linux, no? And I'm talking about native clients, not by making games wineable

[suupaabaka]

It'd be a huge deal if Linux had a polished, fun and native game that wasn't ported to other systems. Something along the lines of Bioshock, with great graphics, sound and story and rewarding gameplay with the bonus of having a central development team (for art continuity and such) with added contribution from the Linux community (maps, mods, additional art etc).

I mean, if people wanted to play it, they'd have to get Linux... and I'm sure if a game was attractive enough it'd garner the attention of those who are willing to experiment with other operating systems. Those people would then go out and hype about it to their friends.

I'm on Ubuntu now because of one of my friends, and games are more compelling than sheer geekiness :D

[hikaricore]

Understandable, but I'm sure that we - the gamers - can do something in order to bring quality games to linux, no? And I'm talking about native clients, not by making games wineable

I think you may be mistaking the words "quality" and "commercial".

There are already hundreds of QUALITY games that are either cross-platform or solely for Linux.

[Luksion Knight]

It'd be a huge deal if Linux had a polished, fun and native game that wasn't ported to other systems. Something along the lines of Bioshock, with great graphics, sound and story and rewarding gameplay with the bonus of having a central development team (for art continuity and such) with added contribution from the Linux community (maps, mods, additional art etc).

well we could ask people we know to sketch concept art of scarring humanoid monsters that would scare you shitless just looking at them, post them, and maybe some 3d modellers could create them. as for story-line, ask the creative writing club at your local high-school or college if they could write up some kickass story to go with it. im taking computer prgramming in school right now, and over the summer i'm going to take a 3d computer animation class at my local art institute.

[kyphi]

As hard as I try, I cannot see any flaws in open source gaming.

If you want to change anything, learn a programming language and contribute. Changing anything is up to you (and me).

As far as originality is concerned, where do we go? Shoot to kill - has been done before: first person role playing games - has been done before; it has ALL been done before. "There is nothing new under the sun" .... except "you".

I do think that you posed your question badly.

[mutation]

hey Ryoushi19 why don't you come up with an original concept, organize some artists, 3d modelers and programers, sould not be a big deal for someone who knows exactly what is wrong.

[Crafty Kisses]

I don't think they do.

[JusticeZero]

Yeah, linux games are not original, but look at what the dev's have to work with. Most of these games are written from very basic pieces of pre-existing code or are mad just from scratch. Linux devs very rarely (or ever) have the time/resources of a big company. I think linux has great games for being free and stuff.

Okay, this is hogwash.
Let's say you're making an MMO. You don't have many resources though, everything you just mentioned applies.
With those resources, you can make an "Ultima Online/AC clone!" or you can make, say, a game based off of a cool setting that you've worked up that isn't a "copy" of anything - maybe you make an MMO set in, I don't know, fictional gold rush Alaska with PvP centering around controlling towns and transportation and gold mines or something. I don't think anyone has done that, and it would take little if any resources beyond what it takes to make an imitation of an existing product.

One game goes "Hey look, we can make a copy of a great game!" the other one says "Hey look, here's a great game!"
I know which i'd rather play, and the copy isn't it. If I wanted to play the Nifty Game, i'd boot up Windows and play it, not play NiftyClone 0.9. If they weren't trying to make NiftyClone like Nifty, they could make CoolGame instead, and I might play CoolGame on it's own merits.

[Crafty Kisses]

Any of you guys played GunZ Online? That's pretty original. :)

[s3a]

What we need is a good single player storyline. I don't know programming (yet) so I can't contribute in that aspect however I can help with a storyline if lots of others join in. I love Half-Life 2 and Halo and wanted a Starcraft Ghost-like game. We should copy the good elements of such games and add newer elements and make polls to ask the players of the games what features they'd like included or not. Being a student, I will not be able to help until this summer as I have to worry about school but I can help then and would follow the progress if others were willing to work on such a thing!

[DoktorSeven]

Because the big companies putting out 100 same-as-the-old FPS games every year is original, right?

:)

[s3a]

The point is to defeat or at least match the best.

[mrobert]

Hello everyone,

First of all, I am a game developer.

Let's clear a few things up. Mario is original because there weren't many or any games back then. It's like calling every car on the streets today, a clone.

Games pretty much try to simulate a real person doing something in a "world" to accomplish rewards (points, money, whatever). Pretty much everything has been covered (driving a car, walking around shooting, etc).

There are a very few unexplored spots left and not many companies will go there since there is always the short route to money: Just add in more graphics and stuff into something existing, and it will do the job.

[grossaffe]

Hello everyone,

First of all, I am a game developer.

Let's clear a few things up. Mario is original because there weren't many or any games back then. It's like calling every car on the streets today, a clone.

Games pretty much try to simulate a real person doing something in a "world" to accomplish rewards (points, money, whatever). Pretty much everything has been covered (driving a car, walking around shooting, etc).

There are a very few unexplored spots left and not many companies will go there since there is always the short route to money: Just add in more graphics and stuff into something existing, and it will do the job.

I'd say there are an infinite amount of original ideas still out there, they're just really obscure

[cb951303]

@OP: I don't know if it's stated yet but there is no originality in mainstream games too, In fact they are worse! Only thing they care about is better graphics, better physics, mind blowing technologies etc... No one cares about design, plot or actual playing anymore. The only sector I keep seeing original games is indie community.

[dtrot55]

I installed Ubuntu on my machine that i use all the time. I did it because i heard that the games would run better. I got ubuntu installed and installed steam to play counter strike...i got in game and got no more than 10fps...I had a 8600gt xxx video card that in windows gave me over 100fps. It seems to me that opensource just needs to be a part of the development process...its kind of link Apple. Once they changed and put on a good marketing scheme you are slowly seeing more and more things being made for it or compatible with it. Needless to say i uninstalled ubuntu and went back to windows because i was disappointed in how the OS performed with games...everything else was great...Ubuntu is a great OS...at that time it wasn't something that was fulfilling my need...but i also wanted to start learning some linux stuff...i continue to pursue Ubuntu and find a need that it will fill for me.

[dtrot55]

@OP: I don't know if it's stated yet but there is no originality in mainstream games too, In fact they are worse! Only thing they care about is better graphics, better physics, mind blowing technologies etc... No one cares about design, plot or actual playing anymore. The only sector I keep seeing original games is indie community.

I concur..im getting tired of this annoying make the game and get it out there as quick as possible and fix it later attitude. I hate the fact that they rely on modders to make their games good...DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

[crazyfuturamanoob]

Maybe Linux games don't feel so original because there aren't that much.

[j@am1]

As much as Id prefer to see some decent games for Linux,I think the problem with doing so Open Source/Free etc, for developers is 2 things:
1) How would they make any money to pay all the programmers,artists,development folks? If they cant make any money off of it,none of the devs are going to bother..
2)Even if they did figure that out,being "open" and having to show the code would simply lead to huge amounts of cheats -above and beyond those that ruin most of the PC games already.
How would an open-source game worth mentioning secure itself against aimbots/chams etc?

[dannytatom]

would simply lead to huge amounts of cheats -above and beyond those that ruin most of the PC games already.


This is very true already, and is so annoying. It's almost upsetting someone would cheat on a game people are putting tons of work into for the fun/love of it, expecting nothing but people to enjoy it.

[TheIdiotThatIsMe]

I would say probably the majority of open source community are not programmers, but regular users. Linux, as an OS, has gotten to the point where you just dont need to be a techie to use it. So, there are a lot of ideas and wants, but not nearly enough people to implement it.

I agree that story is something that you really need, and my hobby happens to be writing, but I dont know of open source projects that are in need of writers, instead of artists/programmers/musicians.

[DoktorSeven]

Hello everyone,

First of all, I am a game developer.

Let's clear a few things up. Mario is original because there weren't many or any games back then. It's like calling every car on the streets today, a clone.

Most cars are, there really does need to be a major redesign on the gas-guzzling things that don't last nearly as long as they should for the amount of money you pay for the things.

But at least cars need to be replaced, so making new ones makes sense. You can always play old games, making most new games pointless.

[BatsotO]

Yes I believe that's not much originality left. Many of the new game out there are adding some new elements, more graphic, a brand new graphic, or even same game with another story, and it do the job.
I know open source power is the openess, if you don't like it you can change it, but all I want is to have some fun, I play game because I tired to look at the terminal, I want to see nice looking young women slays some zombies. It's like i have to modify my bed just to slept on it.
I play warzone2100 and no hard feeling, but the scavanger infantry is just like dots in the sand, you can't expext it to compete with starcraft which doesn't even 3D.

[antirem]

I think that it could be original... but you would have to do it on a cross browser game.

What if there was a mod for Warsow that made it very unique? Warsow has original movement, which i have a few windows gamers who use it because of that it just needs to be taken farther.

[noerrorsfound]

How would an open-source game worth mentioning secure itself against aimbots/chams etc?
Commercial, closed-source games with PunkBuster haven't even been able to stop cheaters, so why are you asking this question about only open source games?

Aimbotters are easy to spot, and they get banned when they are. Admins are usually around in AssaultCube because clans share admin passwords, and players can votekick and voteban. The previous major version, however, was a total mess, with ammunition and health being stored on the client, and you can predict how much cheating that led to.

A closed-source anti-cheat could be made, but considering PunkBuster is commercial and can't do the job, I doubt something worked on by volunteers could, either.

[mrobert]

I am an indie developer.
For the past 5 years I developed a hacker simulation game serie (pretty original idea).

As someone said above, there are plenty of original ideas out there, but they aren't on the short route to making money, which is now what the industry boils down to.

Early next year I am about to start developing a new serie of games. Again, the idea will be unique, and never before implemented. I know that the first 6 months will be spent with a beta build and a lot of gamers involved trying to refine the idea, make it playable, add/remove features, etc ... kinda like research work.

[hessiess]

The vast majority of new commercial games arnt exactly original ether. the range consisting mostly of shooters.

[creek23]

1) How would they make any money to pay all the programmers,artists,development folks? If they cant make any money off of it,none of the devs are going to bother..It is best if Canonical will start developing their own game. It will surely add (acrued) market-share of GNU/Linux converts.

2)Even if they did figure that out,being "open" and having to show the code would simply lead to huge amounts of cheats -above and beyond those that ruin most of the PC games already.Why bother on cheats? Isn't the whole GNU/Linux OS open source too? Weren't you bothered of others cracking/sneaking* into your system because they know your OS' vulnerability?

I mean, well, it's just a game. You play it because it's fun (and it should d_mn be).

Others get bored and cheats the game, which becomes fun again.
----
* Im' not gonna use the word 'hack'.

[creek23]

As someone said above, there are plenty of original ideas out there, but they aren't on the short route to making money, which is now what the industry boils down to.I'm an Free Software developer too and I also work as Flash Game Programmer. I very much agree into this.

Early next year I am about to start developing a new serie of games. Again, the idea will be unique, and never before implemented. I know that the first 6 months will be spent with a beta build and a lot of gamers involved trying to refine the idea, make it playable, add/remove features, etc ... kinda like research work.I wish you good luck with that!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
With my field of expertise (Flash games), I can say we (GNU/Linux users) should really have an FOSS equivalent Flash IDE on GNU/Linux systems.

Yes, we have Inkscape, GIMP and Blender (for 3D Flash games) to be used for creating the sprites asset. But we only have FOSS code editors and compilers to write Flash games. Having a FOSS Flash IDE will surely help boost the production time.

FYI: Flash games (casual games) are needed to be done in a month.

[dannytatom]

Others get bored and cheats the game, which becomes fun again.


I don't know that people cheat in Urban Terror, but people sure do accuse others of doing it (either they suck and need an excuse or the person really is). Aimbots don't make the game "fun again," it makes it irritating to play.

[creek23]

I don't know that people cheat in Urban Terror, but people sure do accuse others of doing it (either they suck and need an excuse or the person really is). Aimbots don't make the game "fun again," it makes it irritating to play.It does make the game fun -- for the cheaters. They feel powerful than the non-cheating gamers.

Cheat does make games fun to play. That's the reason proprietary games like Tony Hawk and others has this too. RTS also has the god-mode cheat.

I also cheat games, because sometimes, playing by-the-rule of the game just isn't fun.

With UT, why don't you be the server and password-lock it and let your non-cheating friends join?

But to me, what's the point of getting the cheaters in-the-nerve. As they say, "if you can't beat them, cheat them" :D

BTW, I play UT too. Though I don't cheat (promise). Lemme join your UT server sometime, okay? ;)

[dannytatom]

It does make the game fun -- for the cheaters. They feel powerful than the non-cheating gamers.

They could just not suck, and feel powerful by being a better player.

Cheat does make games fun to play. That's the reason proprietary games like Tony Hawk and others has this too. RTS also has the god-mode cheat.

Cheating in a single player game by using built-in cheats/codes is a whole different thing.


I also cheat games, because sometimes, playing by-the-rule of the game just isn't fun.

I hope you mean single player games, if not I hate you ;(

With UT, why don't you be the server and password-lock it and let your non-cheating friends join?

I shouldn't have to spend money to avoid people who aren't considerate enough to play fairly.

But to me, what's the point of getting the cheaters in-the-nerve. As they say, "if you can't beat them, cheat them" :D

Because not -everyone- cheats. There might be one on a server of 30 people, if I join him, that's 2 out of 30. That's going to be annoying for the other 28. And, if everyone is cheating, what's the point in playing?

Cheating in single player games is one thing, and it's whatever, there's nobody to **** off that way. And cheating in "glitch servers" (as they were called in Socom, rooms where all you did was cheat/glitch) is fine, because yeah, it can be fun. But when playing a multiplayer game, you should respect other players. Not everyone wants to cheat, and not everyone wants to deal with cheaters.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot my main reason for hating cheating in OS games. I imagine having the source code freely available makes it easier for people to cheat. It's going to be hard for people (users and creators alike) to take OS games serious when it's far easier to cheat in comparison to closed source games. What would help this is people not cheating, even if only for the sake of more games being made.

[creek23]

IMO*, games can be tolerable in contrast to productivity softwares like, OpenOffice, Inkscape, Blender, Synfig, Kino, Audacity, etc.

Because whatever hot games are being cooked this month, will only be a cold chicken by next month. I mean, let's face it. If you play any game, you get bored with it and try to look for the next hot one, right?

But with productivity tools, there can be only one tool that you could be using for your whole professional time.

Can you imagine yourself picking up Abiword after using OpenOffice? Or the other way around?

Once you are used to a productivity software, you get hooked to it. But games come and go.

What I'm pointing out here is that, the efforts given into the development of one game will be thrown away. Of course, the source code can be reused, I'm pointing out to the whole output -- the game.

With tools software, you get version 1, version 2, then 3, then 3.1, etc. -- It's just worth giving effort to develop since the software is being improved (not recycled).

~~~
* I won't say humble :D

------------------------------
EDIT:I hope you mean single player games, if not I hate you :(And oh! Yes, I mean single player games. ;)

[kspncr]

@OP: I don't know if it's stated yet but there is no originality in mainstream games too, In fact they are worse! Only thing they care about is better graphics, better physics, mind blowing technologies etc... No one cares about design, plot or actual playing anymore. The only sector I keep seeing original games is indie community.

I do not like to see statements like these. It is not fair to say there is NO originality in mainstream games and that the sole concentration is on graphics. Yes, it's true that some publishers (I won't say which) are thinking about money and force the developers to release the game before they're really finished with it (there are other reasons which I will not get into right now). A lot of hard work goes into today's games and there are plenty of high-quality and original games out there. Why is it that people like you think today's developers only care about graphics? If that were true, then Legendary would be just as good of a game as Dead Space. They both have great-looking graphics, but the difference is that Legendary totally sucks. Because its GAMEPLAY is just not fun. Yes, people (players and developers alike) care about GAMEPLAY, not just the way the game looks. Seriously.

[curvedinfinity]

One thing that makes it tough to have "cutting edge" OSS games is that everyone has their own ideas. People want to make their own game. The thing is, that means only programmers actually get to make their games, because they actually can do the foundation work. The designers and artists never have the opportunity to create their games because they never have something for other people to work off of. I'd wager that designers and artists have a lot more input in commercial games.

Furthermore, proven game producers (the people at the top, even in OSS, who make things happen) easily find very well paying jobs (perhaps not even in the game industry) that end up giving them more of what they are looking for than donating their time to side projects. -- Instead of spending their weekends programming, they can go to the bahamas and scuba dive. :X

[cb951303]

I do not like to see statements like these. It is not fair to say there is NO originality in mainstream games and that the sole concentration is on graphics.

There are original games (i.e: Spore) but they are absolutely no where near the number of unoriginal ones. I'll go ahead and ask you for a list of mainstream games (2008) that you think are original.


Yes, it's true that some publishers (I won't say which) are thinking about money and force the developers to release the game before they're really finished with it (there are other reasons which I will not get into right now).
I'll say it for you. EA Games, ID Software, Valve, Blizzard, Bioware ... Need more. To be perfectly fair, I don't think I saw a single original game from these company for a while.


A lot of hard work goes into today's games and there are plenty of high-quality and original games out there.
Certainly there is a lot of hard work. I'm not denying it. It's just focused on a wrong point. Again, state some of these so called 'original' games.


Why is it that people like you think today's developers only care about graphics? If that were true, then Legendary would be just as good of a game as Dead Space. They both have great-looking graphics, but the difference is that Legendary totally sucks. Because its GAMEPLAY is just not fun.
Please elaborate "people like you". It's funny you just gave 2 examples of unoriginal games.


Yes, people (players and developers alike) care about GAMEPLAY, not just the way the game looks. Seriously.
I hope so.

By your attitude I get you are a developer? If so, try not to get defensive. It's my idea based on my experiences. And remember there is still plenty of original games. Just google for "indie games".

[mrobert]

@cb951303: Originality is the only thing keeping indies alive and in business. A few years back (6 or so), there was this article in the WSJ (I think) about bedroom programmers "runining" the gaming industry with their $20 games, lack of quality, etc.

Making games = having money. License some engine, get some artists and you are in business. And the last you will see in any market flooded with money looking to make more money ... is inovation.

[cb951303]

@mrobert: keep up the good work, I truly love indie games!

[sebastianrimbaud]

I've skimmed over this topic and as a new Ubuntu user, I would have to disagree with OP and say the developers of the games for Linux are unappreciated. Also, I've only had this OS for a day and I'm already loving it.

I'm checking out all the games available and after doing a guick google search for top games for linux and seeing the screen shots I'm definitely impressed.

Here's one that I thought was really good.
http://rangit.com/software/top-8-linux-games-of-2007/

I'm looking forward to downloading some of them. I'm kind of just exploring them for now. And despite the lack of originality in a lot of some of these, I would have to they're still fun and better than nothing. Also they do give it a nice spin and currently, the list I'm looking at looks kind of thrilling and original in a Linux kind of way.

[creek23]

I'm looking forward to downloading some of them.You just have to make sure you bought hardware that provides Free Software firmware/drivers. Usually, the problem lies on the graphic cards -- games become sticky slow not because of the OS.

[sebastianrimbaud]

Thanks for the tip. I'll keep it in mind.

[crazyfuturamanoob]

I don't know that people cheat in Urban Terror, but people sure do accuse others of doing it (either they suck and need an excuse or the person really is). Aimbots don't make the game "fun again," it makes it irritating to play.

I played UT for some time, then get bored, downloaded an aimbot+wallhack and it became fun again, for a week or so. Then got bored with cheats, disabled them, and the game became fun once again.

And I really don't suck in Urban Terror without cheats, the same maps just get really boring. I have played every map, every jump map, every fun map, every possible map there exists. Boring.

Of course, if you don't find aimbot which aims at people's wieners funny, then it's your opinion. But for other people, it certainly is irritating :D

[dannytatom]

I meant the person accusing others of cheating must suck (if, in fact, the accusee is not actually cheating). And like I said about Socom, if it's fun to cheat (not saying it isn't) why does noone have a server specifically for cheating? That way the games fun for me and fun for you with nobody getting shafted on either end. ;D

[eragon100]

I meant the person accusing others of cheating must suck (if, in fact, the accusee is not actually cheating). And like I said about Socom, if it's fun to cheat (not saying it isn't) why does noone have a server specifically for cheating? That way the games fun for me and fun for you with nobody getting shafted on either end. ;D

Never seen those "camper" servers for UT? there are about a million of them :)

There are also servers where you can cheat and mess around witht the physics settings and stuff, just not for nexuiz. (altough I was on a polish server for a few weeks, I liked the operator and he liked me, so we would play with the gravity and stuf) :wink:

[Brafil]

Well, I think too, but there is a serious problem: Games themselves arent getting better. Look out at the game market: How many FPS do you see? And how many are good? except for just graphics? Gaming industry is a bad thing: Often just recreate the successes of your rivals. And if the game is revolutionary, it isnt as good as the others. I dont know any newer game for PC that is fun after the first hours. (Mostly because my computer is not really new ;-p) But I can still play a game thats 5 or more years old. Even 10. Really.

[dannytatom]

Never seen those "camper" servers for UT? there are about a million of them :)

There are also servers where you can cheat and mess around witht the physics settings and stuff, just not for nexuiz. (altough I was on a polish server for a few weeks, I liked the operator and he liked me, so we would play with the gravity and stuf) :wink:

I've never noticed the camper servers, but them being there is even more reason for cheaters/glitchers/etc not to be irritating everyone in other servers.

This is going way off topic, I just hate people ruining games for others. And, to me, it's even worse for free/os games as it's like a big "screw" you to the developers who work hard for free just to let people have a game to enjoy.

Also, I think I just miss playing Socom. :(

[NoTownKasper]

Just a few simple points I felt compelled to answer...and I'm lazy, so I'll do it in list format.

1) About cheaters in games: <rant> If you're cheating a multiplayer game outside of a server specifically designed for those cheats, please unplug your computer, put it back in the box it came in and return it to the original place of purchase. You're a waste of internet space and game server bandwidth and I hope you die in a fire while your children eat popcorn and roast marshmellows over your toes...</rant>

2) About originality in OSS games: Ever take a look at Hollywood lately? Or the Automobile market? Originality is just hard to come by these days in general. Not to mention that a lot of people at least -seem- to be focusing on clones of existing windows games in a missguided attempt to bring windows gamers over. I read a while back on one of those 'Clone of' style games, it was their whole sales pitch. "See? You can play a game just like it on linux!" The sad fact is, at least in my humble opinion, there isn't a single 'indie' game I've found anywhere that was worth the 30 seconds it took to download/install. The graphics seemed to be decades old, with gameplay basics practically stolen from some other game. Example, the guy talking about his 'fairly original concept' of a 'hacker simulation' game...do a google search and see if you can't find at least 20 'hacker simulation' games on the market...

3: My theory on the problem: It's been said previously, (I'm to lazy to quote it) that there aren't many avenues left for game developers to persue...and it's -so- right. You can either produce another in a long line if evil, life-destroying MMORPG's...which always seem to boil down into experience grinding for days at a time so you can PVP...*yawn* Or you can pump out a racing game, which is usually my favorite...but all the new ones, open source or not seem to be pretty much clones of the old Playstation racers I practically grew up on, just with different feature sets that don't really ever change gameplay. (NFS2 - Underground is a perfect example. Supposedly deep into 'tuner' culture...yet I beat the hard mode without ever tuning my engine.) Or you've got FPS games with storylines that 90% of the people playing don't even pay attention to...just dive into the fragfest. Or you can go old school and put out a scrolling space-shooter or a side-scrolling platform jumper...which are pretty much all alike. And last but not leaste you've got the expansive 3d space games like VegaStrike...which are new -to me- but not new to the gaming industry. Descent anyone? And the gameplay still doesn't change much between them. So you tell me, where is the room for original development?

[donkyhotay]

Originality can come from both OSS and proprietary sources. Personally I think OSS is more likely to be original (though obviously not as flashy) just because it is most likely to be someones idea of a good game rather then a corporations plan for cash. A good example of this is globulation2. At a glance it appears to be just another RTS remake but after playing it a bit you find that although the premise is similar the gameplay is very different and quite novel. Honestly I have often wished I could take the control scheme of globulation2 and apply it to some other RTS's I'm fond of (starcraft especially comes to mind). Another good original game is bzflag, again it appears to be yet (another) FPS however since you're a tank and don't have the ability to strafe the strategy behind it is quite a bit different from the quake/doom type games. Yes many OSS games are clones/copies of proprietary games, but this is fine too. There is nothing wrong with creating a clone of an existing game, (I've been trying to create a clone/remake of moonbase commander for a few years now) looking at OSS vs proprietary games as a whole I think that on average there is more originality with the OSS then there is with proprietary.