Patulong sa Linux research paper ko, pls. Do it for FOSS!

[dnns123]

Hi! I'm a High/Middle/Secondary School student who is about to graduate. I study at Xavier School, San Juan (yeah, yeah, the school with spoiled bratty kids).The topic I chose in my research paper is the replacement of Windows computers ( and hopefully Mac) of our school; with the main goal of the research paper ( set by the teachers) as "How can we improve the school?". Heres the background of my school's computer enviroment.

Windows - 90-100 desktops :mad:
Mac OSX - 150 desktops (140 iMacs ($1400 each) and 10 MacBooks) :mad:
Linux - 1! (atleast I think so; for the school's website) :(

My Jesuit school introduced the computer class in year 2000. Initially, they only taught MS Office, how to type, and how to make basic HTML websites. The computers they bought were Pentium 3s and were preinstalled ( I think ) with windows. Last year, they introduced the Mac with 40 iMacs. This year, they bought the rest of the bulk of iMacs and started to have mandatory Mac classes on how to use iDVD, iMovie, Garageband, Podcast, and most of iLife.

It really makes me :mad: (mad, lol) when I use these expensive computers and come to realize that these computers are only for those with big pockets (rich). And to further agrivate things, these computers promote closed-mindedness in the world of computing, not to mention the betrayal of the word, simplicity.

I asked the Computer Education's Admin why they made the Mac as the main computer and he said that it was the out-of-the-box beuty that was desired. Furthermore, he uses Ubuntu 7.10 in his computer at home and he doesn't like it; he owns a PowerBook. I'm not sure about his level of computer literacy, but it seems high. Another main problem is the use of the iSight of the iMac; it's used in the curriculum.

So the main question I have is:
- How can Ubuntu/Linux beat Windows in it's curriculum
- How can Ubuntu/Linux beat the iMac?
- How can Linux/FOSS change the school?
- How can I overcome the thesis defence if they ask the question, "Do the students desire the change? ( Most of them like Macs, dammit! )
- How will changing to Ubuntu/Linux change the students?
- How will the teachers, who are just intermediate in Windows, get used to Linux?

If you can give me sites on how to introduce Linux in school, or give me neat ideas, I'd appreciate it very much! Also, please input some tips on how to combat Mac's appeal to students. Please provide some replacements for the programs in iLife; it's a big hurdle. Lastly, can you give suggestion on what to include in the curriculum if ever Linux/Ubuntu gets accepted. I really want to leave Linux as a change in my school before I graduate.:popcorn:

P.S. Sorry for the long post, but this is a big question.
P.S.S. Galing din to sa Ubuntu Cafe section :P

[wersdaluv]

Nice post!

Sorry. Ito lang mabibigay ko sa 'yo ngayon. :D
http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/

[dnns123]

TY, basic info nakuha ko for the noob panalists. hehe sama ko :P

[daxumaming]

I've taught teachers from Daet and Baguio about Linux (Ubuntu/Xubuntu specifically) and I make sure there's only one message I want them to think about after those seminars..

Teach Skills, not Specific Software

If the school forces their students to use proprietary OS, then there's no way they'll improve their skills. If you say word processing, they'll say MS Word. If you say Multimedia, then they'll turn their heads to Mac. There's no way they'll know that OpenOffice.org exists... or VLC. There's no way they'll know that there are legally free alternatives out there.

I applaud your school's effort to use Mac (now that's teaching students skills), but they still need to expose their students to also use Linux. If you have a broadband connection at school, I'm sure students would have a ball downloading games and applications legally.

In essence, if your co-students only know windows and mac, your school may be inadvertently promoting piracy. Not everyone can afford Windows license, what more for a Mac. I'm sure they'll get a school discount, but what about the students? They buy their hardware then go to the nearest dibidi stall and buy a pirated version of Windows, MS Office, and even OSx86/Hackintosh. Why would they do that? They'll do that 'coz that's the only OS they know. They have no idea that a free and legal alternative exists. To make matters worse, most Filipinos (especially students) have a mindset that buying pirated "anything" is OK.

Now, let's look at the free alternative. Let's say you install Ubuntu, like Mac, it's immune to viruses and spywares(in the traditional sense). But what's orgasmic about Ubuntu is, everything else can be downloaded for free, again... legally free!

Audio - Amarok/Rhythmbox
Video - Totem/Kaffeine/VLC
Office - OpenOffice.org/KOffice
Email/Calendar - Evolution/Kontact
Browsers - Firefox/Konqueror
Image Editors - GIMP
Games - Pick from hundreds of free games, all legally download-able

And everything here can be downloaded and installed by issuing one command (a few clicks if you download them using Adept or Synaptic). There's no need to go through irritating EULA's and there's no need to input an Unlock codes or Serials (which you usually get from spyware-laden websites).

Let's take my case for example, did you know that I haven't used Windows for over a year now? And since I don't use them, purged them from all my computers (4 of them). And yet, I can do everything a Mac or Windows users can do, sometimes even better and more efficiently. I can open, edit, and save MS Office files sent by relatives, spam friends with chain emails sent from Outlook and Outlook Express, view YouTube videos, listen to music (which oddly enough is still in MP3 and WMA formats), surf flash-based porn sites, watch porn clips (in 3GP, MPG, FLV, WMV, AVI, and RM), etc. etc. etc.

Now let's move on to what I can't do with Kubuntu...
1. I can't open, edit, and save AutoCAD files
2. ...
3. ...
So it seems there's only one thing I can't do in Linux..

Hope my teeny-weeny post gives you an idea on what you should present. Goodluck!

[dnns123]

Nice point, thanks! Can you suggest a video editing program that is the closest to Mac's iMovie?

[ragadanga63]

How about KINO? or Cinelerra?

[gbutalid]

Check out the applications in Ubuntu Studio. I think Jokosher and LMMS are acceptable alternatives for garageband, although I have not tried them both.

Since this is a research paper, or to be more precise, a position paper, I think you should consult the Objectives of your computer science classes first. In college my teachers usually provide them in the syllabus. There could be different objectives for different year levels. The Objectives/Aims/Goals of the Subject can provide an objective yardstick to validate whether your current offerings of com. sci. classes are actually delivering. You could try to post the Objectives here and let's see the issues that you have to consider point by point. In essence, your thesis should be "the best way to achieve the objectives is through FOSS..."- well somewhat like that.

[kopinux]

ito yung aking piece of opinion.


I asked the Computer Education's Admin why they made the Mac as the main computer and he said that it was the out-of-the-box beuty that was desired. Furthermore, he uses Ubuntu 7.10 in his computer at home and he doesn't like it; he owns a PowerBook. I'm not sure about his level of computer literacy, but it seems high. Another main problem is the use of the iSight of the iMac; it's used in the curriculum.

what kind of iMac are your school is using? the old powerpc mac? or the new intel core duo macs?


- How can Ubuntu/Linux beat Windows in it's curriculum

everything windows has to offer in education, edubuntu linux can offer, and you dont have to pay for the softwares. let us not ask why to use ubuntu but ask why are we using windows? as windows is luxury, ubuntu linux is a necessity. meaning of windows as luxury and ubuntu as necessity; as the computer becomes a necessity ubuntu linux employs the basics of the necessity of using a computer, and if you want some features that windows has, you have to pay for it.

320 public schools is using edubuntu; http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=580752

talo pa tayo ng nag aral sa public school!


- How can Ubuntu/Linux beat the iMac?

the same debate, why are we using Mac OS? why are you teaching us with softwares we will not use when we work or go to business.
Mac OS is based on UNIX like linux, but you dont pay for linux.


- How can Linux/FOSS change the school?

it can change the image of a spoiled and bratty kids, into an educated, aware and responsible students. for me the sense of using mac and ipod is more on social status, it makes you look rich. but usability and practically.. failed. if the school is carrying this lavish lifestyle, it will be carried on by the students.

mac, windows will cost you every 5-8 years of upgrades, have the school upgrade to vista? do you think the pentium 3 computers can run the latest vista? have they shifted to office 2007 to teach the current and latest technology? and upgrading to vista means, throwing the old pentium 3 means additional garbage in landfills, where intalling linux on it can still provide you the latest technology even on using old hardwares.

Among the list of companies that have shifted to the use of Open Source are Goldilocks Bakeshop and Foodshop, Jollibee Food Corp., Meridian Telekoms Inc., National Bookstore, UnionBank of the Philippines, and WG&A Philippines.
http://www.positive.ph/press-details.php?id=8

Disney uses linux, Pixar uses linux, and if you are planning to go robotics, linux is the way to go, linux is everywhere, from smartphones to routers to GPS to embedded home dvd appliances. check here to see deployment of linux other than your daily desktop http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT4936596231.html its everywhere.


- How can I overcome the thesis defence if they ask the question,

you need to learn about opensource terms and meanings more, i think the purpose of defence is to make sure that you are the one who made the thesis, there will be no question to be ask not covered by the thesis you submitted.


"Do the students desire the change? ( Most of them like Macs, dammit! )

the students only eats what is fed to them, it is the choice of the school not the students. and i think they will really like ubuntu, because it is ultra customizable like friendster, especially when they see the 3d desktop. if not possible to change all computers to ubuntu then you dont need to throw the mac and windows desktop, you can let them stay as long as there is also an ubuntu desktop and you will see who will emerge as appealing to the three especially with the customization ubuntu has to offer and capabilities and its free, kind of giving a "competition" inside the room that apple and microsoft the word (competition) hates most.


- How will changing to Ubuntu/Linux change the students?

FOSS teaches students sharing, the spirit of community, discourages piracy, discover alternatives, and even encourages them to configure their software to their preference because its OPEN source, it is the perfect tool for learning rather than teaching lavish, expeditious and luxurious lifestyle, it could even breed young linux talent, and as we can see, a lot of corporations, lgu and government are shifting to linux, even D.O.S.T. has its linux project, a local software industry will emerge in the future if linux becomes mainstream in the philippines, a future of a student that is linux literate is bright, it also teaches adaptability, an linux user can use windows, a windows user cannot vice versa. as windows teaches lazyness and discourages learning, proof? look at majority of windows users they always brag linux is hard where they only tried linux for hours and windows for years.


- How will the teachers, who are just intermediate in Windows, get used to Linux?

it is easier to teach people ubuntu especially when they are new or intermediate because they are not yet accustomed, biased, lazy to windows/mac. some may not even know the difference, most may not even know they are using linux.


If you can give me sites on how to introduce Linux in school, or give me neat ideas, I'd appreciate it very much

the CICT is using edubuntu in deployment of ischools (public school computers) http://eskwela.wikispaces.com/, eSwkela (online school for out of school youth) http://ischools.wikispaces.com/.

or this http://www.positive.ph/index.php a group dedicated for deploying opensource in schools/colleges.


Also, please input some tips on how to combat Mac's appeal to students. Please provide some replacements for the programs in iLife;

obviously iLinux hehe, though im sure it will not be as good as iLife but it will do the job, you can even customize your ubuntu to look like a Mac desktop.


Lastly, can you give suggestion on what to include in the curriculum if ever Linux/Ubuntu gets accepted.

http://www.positive.ph/aboutus.php Positive will be glad to help you

[Samhain13]

I think I'm going to be the first to say this here, but it's not about the OS or the platform that one is using.

If Xavier can afford to maintain a computer lab of Macs (and I'm pretty sure Xavier can), then there should be no problem. If Xavier wants to maintain a lab of Windows Vistas, there should be no problem there too. If it wants a GNU/Linux computer lab, well and good.

What I find ideal, however, (and given Xavier's reputation as being a school for upper class kids and supported by a strong alumni association) is you guys having a curriculum that orients you in those three platforms using specialised laboratories, making you OS/platform independent. I think this will be better for you because when you finally find work, it wouldn't matter what your employer or your business partner uses-- you can always perform your duties regardless.

Maybe a better thesis would be something that revolves around "interoperability" rather than one which puts different stuff (each having their own merits) against one another with the premise: "one has to be better than the rest".

[dnns123]

I asked the Computer Education's Admin why they made the Mac as the main computer and he said that it was the out-of-the-box beuty that was desired. Furthermore, he uses Ubuntu 7.10 in his computer at home and he doesn't like it; he owns a PowerBook. I'm not sure about his level of computer literacy, but it seems high. Another main problem is the use of the iSight of the iMac; it's used in the curriculum.

The iMacs na may Tiger OS X. Dual Core.


the students only eats what is fed to them, it is the choice of the school not the students. and i think they will really like ubuntu, because it is ultra customizable like friendster, especially when they see the 3d desktop. if not possible to change all computers to ubuntu then you dont need to throw the mac and windows desktop, you can let them stay as long as there is also an ubuntu desktop and you will see who will emerge as appealing to the three especially with the customization ubuntu has to offer and capabilities and its free, kind of giving a "competition" inside the room that apple and microsoft the word (competition) hates most.

Mind you that it's going to used in a school where the teachers don't want the students to srew things up. So the usual capabitilies of the teachers are:
To be able to see what the student's monitor displays in his monitor.
To be able to halt all activities of the 40-PCs-per-class and make the screen black/whatever design the teachers want.


Any more suggestions? I think im getting somewhere

[perbiu]

Kung medyo sosy bagay na bagay ang Ubuntu Studio. Kung simple lang bagay yung Edubuntu. Maganda din ito bilang inspirasyon. http://ubuntu-ph.org/node/161 tungkol sa Our Lady of Lourdes College.

[jsgotangco]

Let me play the devil's advocate on this thread by stating some facts and disclaimers about me:


I'm a member of the Ubuntu Community Council
I've been part of the project since late 2004
I've been doing the sysad role for Linux/Unix/Windows/OS X since 1997
My current day job involves managing Linux servers with OS X (we run a pure OS X desktop environment at work)
I am co-authoring an Ubuntu server book in print March 2008 (check manning.com for details)
I created this post with my 15" BenQ Turion64x2 laptop in Gutsy (see I'm not so evil after all)


Why OS X desktop?

It works out of the box for me (along with the hardware). Since the foundations of OS X are UNIX, I didn't have to change anything with my settings at all. It's pretty much the same thing when running any Linux-based distro in the market. The other things that make me enjoy OS X are primarily: (1) tight integration of apps (iLife and iWork along with apps that use iSight) (2) availability of open source applications.

(1) is pretty much an Apple undertaking with lots of R&D money/resources and a very strict development methodology to keep consistency.

(2) because of the UNIX heritage, OS X can run almost all free software/open source software out there with projects like Darwin Ports, Fink, and even Cocoa-based apps that are released under an open source/free software license.


But Apple hardware is expensive! Why get it?

There's a lot of truth with that statement, but then, you can't deny the fact that Apple hardware has always been on the high-end side, not much different with its high-end PC counterparts.

Since you're running iMacs, you pretty much have something like 80% out of the box to be productive, thanks to the bundles (iLife for instance and the developer tools (XCode, X11, Java, etc) with the bundled DVD).

On a developer standpoint (my experience), if I purchased a PC, I'd flush or dual boot XP or Vista, install Ubuntu or CentOS, create my development environment, make sure the toolchain is installed.

In a MacBook i won't do that at all because its all there and my Linux skills complement the environment. With the current release of OS X (leopard), it now comes with Ruby on Rails support out of the box - that means developers can just focus on doing magic than trying to do voodoo with their machines (aka making it work).

Same with some of the stuff being taught in your school it seems. Do you see any app that can even rival GarageBand or iMovie? If there is, would the quality of the output be of the same caliber? Did your sysad struggle to make the built in iSight work with something like Yahoo Messenger or Skype for video? You stated 150 iMacs - that's a lot of machines to administer and having 100 Windows desktops only adds to the complexity. In a managed IT environment, maintaining software already adds to the overhead so these companies make integration tools available, either for a fee (Apple's RD3 for example) or free.

Legacy Support

I think this is something very important to consider. Your school's hardware will eventually grow old - even the iMacs so this adds another complexity and migration puzzle.

I have a Powerbook G4 12" that I thought was about to be part of my computing history - till Apple did a battery recall and replaced mine a few days ago. Then OS X 10.5 was released with support for legacy G4 and G5 machines.

I can't do this with Ubuntu at all even if a PPC port was released - a lot of things did work out of the box (except wireless, but that is already a known fact for Apple hardware on linux). Sure the Leopard upgrade will cost me money, but then, having that will mean my Powerbook will still be usable for 2-3 more years (a lot of organizations still have G4 and G5 machines).

I haven't tried Ubuntu on a MacBook natively installed but as hardware ages, the support on free/open source systems improves in a way, so Macs on Intel architecture will have better support.

Closing thoughts

I believe one of the biggest crimes to teach students is to teach them about software rather than teaching them concepts and make them decide the best course to get the results. So that is my answer to your first two questions.

For your third question, FOSS should be able to change the way the school works by not selling it as FOSS, but by selling it as a better way of solving a problem. There are times that a proprietary solution will always be a better choice than a free/open source solution and vise-versa. The keyword here is interoperability and that is the true strength of FOSS.

Not everyone in your school will become software developers or IT professionals. But by opening up the mantra of finding a better way to solve a problem will make everyone aware of the choices out there.

I guess in a business standpoint, that makes me more of a technologist rather than a niche professional. Some changes in my career changed my perspective in software development. It's not about the philosophies anymore but the pragmatism involved. We don't live in a perfect world as the saying goes, but that doesn't mean we'll have to sacrifice function over beliefs.

[kopinux]

kung titignan naman kasi iba ang target audience ng mac at linux, hindi naman nag cocompete ang dalawa na yan. kaya pwede na pabayaan mo nalang yung mac (nabili na rin lang kasi), at targetin ng proposal mo yung 90-100 windows desktop, kasi yung pentium3 na pc winxp siguro ang os niyan, hindi kaya vista yan. kaya hanggang diyan nalang ang technology ng mga pc nayan pero nalang kung iinstallan mo ng linux.

depende kasi yan sa scope ng curriculum niyo. pag video editing, multimedia, pictures, stick nalang sa mac.

pero pag basics, GUI, office productivity, internet, go linux.

hindi rin masama na turuan ang studyante ng software kesa concepts, as long as nasa curriculum (halimbawa tinuturo pa yung history of computer), it is more of a crime if we will teach students to just use, without teaching the legal responsibilities also. bawal mag download ng mp3, bawal copyahing ang proprietary software, ano ba ang proprietary software, one pc per one computer dapat, ano ba ang opensource, sa linux pwede copyahin, ano ba ang copyleft... basics lang ..

dapat ang computer science sa college dag dagan ng isang subject ang tawag "computer law 101".

[vafada]

So the main question I have is:
- How can Ubuntu/Linux beat Windows in it's curriculum
- How can Ubuntu/Linux beat the iMac?
- How can Linux/FOSS change the school?
- How can I overcome the thesis defence if they ask the question, "Do the students desire the change? ( Most of them like Macs, dammit! )
- How will changing to Ubuntu/Linux change the students?
- How will the teachers, who are just intermediate in Windows, get used to Linux?


Nice to see a fellow schoolmate in here, although i graduated from Xavier a long, long time ago ( 1998 ).

- How can Ubuntu/Linux beat Windows in it's curriculum
- How can Ubuntu/Linux beat the iMac?

It really depends on the curriculum. If Xavier wants to teach Excel (we were taught excel in 3rd year), iDVD, iMovie, (lists other mac/windows application) then Linux has no way in beating Windows and Mac.

But if they are going to teach programming (C, Python, etc) then Linux is a good platform but i doubt Xavier is going to teach programming :(

- How can Linux/FOSS change the school?

It can save a lot of money and instead of spending money on Macs and Windows license just spend it on teachers and facilities. Students who are interested in computer science would benefit a lot from Linux .

- How can I overcome the thesis defence if they ask the question, "Do the students desire the change? ( Most of them like Macs, dammit! )

This is a tough one. Macs are trendy and as a Xavier graduate i know they love going with the trend :) I guess with Linux (along with windows and mac), student would be given a choice, not everyone might like Linux, the non-geeky student might prefer Mac (i don't blame them) but the future computer scientist might prefer to go Linux.

- How will changing to Ubuntu/Linux change the students?

Well, the OS shouldn't 'change' student rather it should spark their interest in computers, computer science and open source development.

- How will the teachers, who are just intermediate in Windows, get used to Linux?

Ubuntu right now is very user-friendly. I'm not sure how you define intermediate, but if intermediate means surfing the net, listening to music, writing documents, etc, you can do those stuff easily in Linux, they just need to get familiarize with the new applications (amarok instead of winamp, Open office instead of MS Office, Firefox instead of IE, etc)

anyways, good luck on your research paper.

P.S. I have a batchmates who are now teachers in Xavier, i'm sure you know them.

[Samhain13]

I believe one of the biggest crimes to teach students is to teach them about software rather than teaching them concepts and make them decide the best course to get the results. So that is my answer to your first two questions.

+1 :D

Ano nga yung basic concept na tinuturo dati? "Garbage in, garbage out." It doesn't really matter what applications and/or operating system one uses. It's how a person uses them.

[kopinux]

umuurong at umuurong ang stand ko a. hirap talaga pag private school, doon nalang ako sa public.

opinion again; if looking realistically it is more realistic to push the existence of ubuntu desktop in the computer room, lets say the 90 windows desktop, 10 of them will be converted to ubuntu desktop. kumpleto na ang learning experience. wala nang magrereklamo nyan.

another is to add in the curriculum, basic introduction to cyber addiction, piracy and software classifications (alin ang pwede at bawal, proprietary/opensource) it is the same as values education in I.T.. i think the reason why we have 71% piracy rate in the philippines is its failure to teach in schools and homes about piracy.

[dnns123]

Fine, change ko nalang ang objective ng paper. So............

Teach students the existence of FOSS
Teach students more software ethics and laws
Expose students to Ubuntu/Linux in a very small scale.

P.S. I'm pro-piracy sa PS2. Sorry, student budget lang. :lolflag:

[Samhain13]

Well, you actually have a very nice train of thought right there. :D

[kopinux]

ang bilis mo naman sumuko, opinyon lang yung sa akin, ikaw parin masusunod.


P.S. I'm pro-piracy sa PS2. Sorry, student budget lang.

halos lahat naman yata e. pero mag all orig ako sa ps3 dahil gusto ko mag online games.

[dnns123]

ang bilis mo naman sumuko, opinyon lang yung sa akin, ikaw parin masusunod.

Hindi ako sumusuko, mas ok lang talaga ang mga suggestions niyo. Sakto ang mga sinasabi niyo sa Cafe eh...:popcorn:

At sa bagay, mas simple ang paper kung ganyan lang ang mga objective ko.

[Surgeon General]

Great post Jerome! Now, when can I have the soft-copy of your book? ;-)

I agree with you wholeheartedly not to give students fish, rather show them how to fish. Thinking is not that painful contrary to popular beliefs.

[raxso]

Hope this is not too late. Successful setup of linux for school computer laboratory. http://thinclient.bayanihan.gov.ph/projects.html

[yron87]

the only thing holding me back on not removing windows on my laptop is because i need it for Visual Studio development projects. Planning to switch to Java already but my job got me tied up.

any comments on this?

VISUAL STUDIO on linux? still not possible.... :( makes me really sad

[kstella]

This is a really great thread! :D

Some of you have already read my old post on my thesis; it's running along the same line of thought that dnns123 has: getting the word on FOSS out there.

I love this forum. :)

Anyway, just a side question: how do you cite an online discussion like this one? Or do any of you have links to docs, etc. to back your points up?

Also, I found this:

http://www.unescap.org/icstd/events/documents/egm_km/Philippines.doc

dnns123, you might find some of the stuff there helpful. :)

I've never heard of some of the groups listed in that document, though. Anyone know where we can find the web presence of ILUG or KALUG?

[Samhain13]

^ From what I hear, it is never a good idea to cite sources from the Internet when dealing with academics. Hehehe! :)

[Laibcoms]

Hmm... my post disappeared or was deleted... so I don't know what to say, all my thoughts gone, I hope you were able to read it...

What I can remember is that for one of your question, separate it.

It should be GNU/Linux "and" FLOSS.
GNU/Linux is an OS competing with Mac OS and MS Windows.
On the other hand, FLOSS applications are available on GNU/Linux, MS Windows, and Mac OS.

So if you want to present and defend FLOSS "and" GNU/Linux, tackle the two separately.

[kstella]

^ From what I hear, it is never a good idea to cite sources from the Internet when dealing with academics. Hehehe! :)
Unless it were considered "personal communication," or "interview." ;) But then we'd need everybody's credentials.

Still, this is a good place to start. :)