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poofyhairguy
August 22nd, 2005, 01:11 AM
How To: Convert Windows Users to Ubuntu

MOST IMPORTANT THING: Don’t preach Ubuntu to be the cure for all modern computer woes. The ENTIRE time, till you are done use words like “Ubuntu MIGHT work for you” and “I THINK Ubuntu can meet you needs.” Nothing is worse than promising them the moon when you can’t even be sure you can deliver the sky!

If you are reading this document, you are probably an excited Ubuntuer that is ready to convert the world to your new favorite OS. What you must realize is that you must act wisely in the process you plan to undertake. A bad conversion can sour someone to Linux for the rest of their life, and harm the overall image of Ubuntu and its community. The first step is to honestly evaluate whose life you can actually improve with Ubuntu.

What Users Should Be Converted to Ubuntu

After a year of Linux use I have decided (with the help of many Ubuntu users who have brainstormed with me) that there are two primary groups that could be benefited by Ubuntu. They fit into two categories, and one of them might surprise you.

Category A: Someone with very little computer experience.

Despite the stereotype of Linux as a hard to use OS, in many ways the most basic computer users have the most to benefit from it. A person that does little more on their computer than make office documents, burn a few CDs, play small and simple card and puzzle games, browse the internet, downloads media of Peer 2 Peer programs and plays this media, chat with someone on AIM, or someone that needs to do basic image manipulation (whats known as “photoshoppery”) can use Ubuntu will little problems after it is set up properly for them. With Ubuntu these users won’t have to worry about Viruses or Spyware (which they often have trouble controlling) and they don’t have to invest lots of money on software for something that is little more than a tool to them. Bonus points if the person you are trying to convert would have trouble installing a program in Windows.

Category B: Someone with lots of computer experience

In this category I am mostly talking about myself and maybe yourself- nerds. Anyone that likes to customize their computer, play with their computer, dance on the command line or play with source code needs to have someone introduce them to Ubuntu. These people are the easiest to convert, but its important you do so because then they can also help spread Ubuntu.

Now from each of these groups there are people that would not like Ubuntu for some reason or the other, and there is one huge group that I haven’t mentioned that normally would not like Ubuntu. Below is a list of people that you should not try to convert with much effort, lest you damage the image of Ubuntu.

What Users Shouldn’t Be Converted to Ubuntu

Biggest Category: Someone with a medium amount of Windows experience.

Often these people will call themselves “Windows power users” but you can identify them by their knowledge level. People in this category include those who can protect themselves from Viruses and Spyware (since that is a big benefit of Ubuntu). Also people in this category are usually fairly proficient using many different programs in Windows, yet in no single program are they experts. Another way to tell is if the person knows what the “registry” is (but does not edit it by hand), or can install Windows themselves from scratch (but only from a CD that gives them all the drivers). It might be hard to tell the difference between these people and major nerds (Category B above) but you must use your head. You can tell how proficient someone is.

The problem with converting this type of person is they have spent years learning Windows. Often they have learned how to do things (instead of how things are done) in repetitive actions (click here, click that, and blank happens) and so in many ways Ubuntu might insult them. With Ubuntu a lot of their knowledge will be thrown out the window, and they will be humbled and have to start over from square one. They probably won’t like that. Also this category probably has a lot of weird, specific hardware yet they will not be willing to do the command line work necessary to get these things to work in Ubuntu (like a true nerd would) because “in Windows I only have to click next, next, next and it works.” We often see these types of people on the forum, in fact their problems with Ubuntu are spelled out quite nicely here:

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=58017&highlight=troll

I personally suggest just given these sorts of people a Live CD and let them decide for themselves. PLEASE don’t push it on them or you might do great harm to the image of the community.

Other groups to watch out for:

1. People that like to use webcams- Ubuntu isn’t the best with webcams. If you know someone that uses their webcam all day to chat, please steer clear. Just give them a Live CD.

2. People that mostly use their computer for one program that you know doesn’t have a good equivalent in Ubuntu. Examples of these include Photoshop (for a professional often the GIMP isn’t enough), random Ebay sniping programs, a certain video game (NOTE: I do think Ubuntu can be very beneficial to hardcore gamers, something I will explain in a later document), Dreamweaver, Flash, Visual Basic, etc. Just give them a Live CD unless you KNOW (for certain beforehand) that WINE can make them happy and YOU are willing to set that up for them.

3. People that use wireless networking. Ubuntu lacks drivers for many modern wireless chipsets, and using Ndiswrapper can be a nightmare. The first time the person realizes that their device doesn’t work, or there device does work but there is not some pretty GUI program to scan and connect to available networks (I know there are, but they work with only a small fraction of wireless devices in Ubuntu) then they will think “Linux sucks” and not want to deal with it again. Please wait until a better, easier way to use ndiswrapper rolls around for these people.

4. People that love Microsoft and Bill Gates. This category should be obvious.

5. Dial up users. The biggest flaws with Windows often rear their ugly head only in a broadband environment: Viruses that destroy an unprotected Windows box that roam the broadband networks, websites that download and install multiple megabyte Spyware programs and install them without the user knowing. Plus the biggest advantages of Ubuntu only are at their best in a broadband environment: thousands of pieces of free software to DOWNLOAD and install, frequent (but big) security updates, upgrades to new versions without a CD. So if I was you, I would just let Dial Up people have their Windows. The only exception is if they run Windows Me….no one should have to deal with that horrible OS.

Biggest Advantages of Ubuntu

When you are trying to convert someone to Ubuntu, you need to tell them the advantages. I might make some people mad by saying this, but to most people the biggest advantage is not the Libre Software thing. Sure us nerds love RMS and his Gnu ideals, but to most people that just doesn’t matter. Maybe bring it up after all the other points, but please don’t make it your primary selling point. That how Linux users get the stereotype as “zealots.”

1. No viruses or Malware/Spyware

2. Is free (in cost). Upgrades will always be free.

3. Allows you access to thousands of free programs. When mentioning this, remind the user that by default Windows lacks many thing (a decent CD burner, anti-virus software, an image manipulation program, office software) that often people pay hundreds of dollars for. Tell them that in Ubuntu, all of this stuff is free!

4. You are there to help them convert (and you are willing to help).

5. Ubuntu has an awesome community that is ready to help you if you (the person converting them) is not there.

Debunking the Most Harmful and Most Common Misconceptions about Ubuntu

When you try to convert people from Windows, the large differences between Windows and Ubuntu will often give birth to harmful misconceptions that can ruin a person’s Linux experience if they are not debunked. I will tear apart the most common ones here.

One thing to remember when dealing with ignorance towards Linux and Ubuntu is to keep your cool. Explain your point without passion if you can. Rely on the strength of your arguments, rather than your personal persuasiveness. This helps paint “Linux People” as moderate sensible people that are just trying to help the world, instead of “frothing at the mouth zealots.”

Misconception 1: “Ubuntu is free right? Anything free can’t be that good”

This a common mistake- the idea that the price of something determines its worth. Explain that “air is free, sex is free, and love is free and all of those are good aren’t they?” Then explain why a free operating system exists (well…one reason…the reason normal people like): every copy of Windows sold means that money is spent on software. The hardware companies know that if so much money was not spent on software then more people would spend more on hardware. So the biggest hardware makers (IBM, Intel, HP, etc.) have all spent MILLIONS of dollars to help develop Linux because if the software is no longer a cost people might buy more. But then explain that “no single hardware company has the resources that MS has, so to compete they must pool their resources into one project – Linux! They are part of the community . Also in the community are software developers that want to be a part of such and important project. The Ubuntu developers are being paid to put the best efforts of the community together because then they can make money selling official support to companies that won’t touch a computer system without official support.” Then tell them that they are the ones to benefit from this situation!

Misconpetion 2: “Windows is the most popular OS correct? That must mean its better”

The essential fallacy here is that popularity means that something is better. For this one I think examples work best. Ask the person “does that mean that McDonalds has the best food in the world just because it’s the most popular restaurant in the world?” (most sane people will say no). Then proceed to explain to them that Linux on the desktop is a relatively new thing, and Windows dominance has more to do with its age and its past that what state it currently is it. In fact, stroke their ego a little and say “I’m giving you the chance to get in on this Linux thing before it gets big. You get to enjoy a better computer experience before the rest of the world –who doesn’t know people like me- can catch up. Doesn’t that sound cool?”

Misconception 3: “Linux is hard to use”

This one is the worst, buts its also the easiest to debunk. Explain to them that Linux CAN be hard to use, but it doesn’t have to be. Tell them that Tivo uses Linux (bonus point if they have one) but none of its customers complain that its hard to use. Explain that Motorola uses Linux, and it would be foolish for them to sell a cell phone that is hard to use. Also tell them “Google uses Linux, and their site is easy to use- isn’t it?” Admit to them that there are some things that are kinda difficult about using Ubuntu, but say “that why I’m here ready to help. I’ll do the hardest stuff for you!”

Misconception 4: “Isn’t Ubuntu open source software? Doesn’t that mean that anyone can add code to it or see its code? How do I know I’m safe if that’s the case?”

This is a good one. First of all explain to them that yes, Ubuntu is open source software, but that does not make it less safe. Windows is closed source software and it has tons of security problems. In fact, the open nature of Ubuntu means that every nerd that uses it can audit its code so that means that people way smarter than them (or you) are making sure that nothing bad can find its way on their computer. Ask them “when you think someone is more likely to commit a crime, when no one is watching or when lots of people are watching?” When they give you the logical answer then tell them it’s the same with software. As far as the “how can I know that someone didn’t add something bad to Ubuntu?” explain to them that the developers of Ubuntu don’t let anything be added without their approval, so they don’t have to worry. Spyware won’t sneak in. In fact, since they get their software from a single, trusted source (the repository….but you don’t have to use those terms or explain what that is) then it is almost IMPOSSIBLE for Spyware to get onto their computer.

Misconception 5: “If Ubuntu becomes as popular as Windows, won’t it have security problems as well?”

This one rages on INSIDE the nerd community. On this point, I would say what I said in the point above plus this: Ubuntu by default is designed to be more secure than Windows. They way it uses true multi user settings (the sudo thing) so that NOTHING can be installed without their consent. Some of yall can help me more with this misconception!

How to Actually Do the Conversion

Once you have someone sold on Ubuntu, its time to do the conversion. But be careful during this part. Be sure to say that “I’m not positive that currently all of your hardware will work with Ubuntu. I hope it does- and if it doesn’t and you still want Ubuntu I can help you pick out hardware that WILL work- but there is a way I can test before I do anything major to you computer. “

Then proceed to boot the Live CD. Make sure Video, Sound, and mouses and whatever work. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT STEP! If something doesn’t work tell them “Ubuntu is a very new OS, so currently it does not work with all hardware. Neither does Windows honestly (Apple hardware anyone?). So lets keep you with Windows for now, I’ll show you some cool OSS software that is also in Ubuntu (OpenOffice, Firefox) and later we can try to switch you again!”

Then if all of their hardware work…YOU install it. YOU go through the installation. If you know they would get freaked out by the scrolling lines part, don’t let them watch. YOU install Java. YOU install Media Codecs. You install Totem-xine. YOU install mplayer and the Mozilla pluggin that gets it to play movies inside the browser like people are used to. YOU go down the Ubuntu guide and mount their NTFS drive and get them all the software they need at first. If YOU know they would hate how it boots, install splashy. If they have some hardware that needs some command line work (ndiswrapper), YOU do it.


If YOU are not willing to do this, then please….DON’T TRY TO CONVERT PEOPLE! You will only hurt the image of the community! This is the true test of your commitment. I know it takes some time. But think to yourself- how much do I really care that they use Ubuntu? If its enough, then do the footwork. DON’T LEAVE IT UP TO THEM IF THERE IS EVEN A SMALL CHANCE IT MIGHT SEEM INFERIOR TO THEM!!!!!

Well…that’s that. Good luck converting people and spreading Ubuntu. Please post here if you have success!

Buffalo Soldier
August 22nd, 2005, 01:22 AM
I'm not a fan of "actively" converting people to Ubuntu or any other GNU/Linux distro. If someone were to approach me first and then ask about it, then only I'll start "preaching" to them :p

But I have installed Ubuntu on a few of my friends PC... those few that keeps bugging me whenever their WinXP screws up. They will need a few days of handholding... explaining user permission, sudo, synaptic, converting OO <-> MS propriety format, and etc.

And I also usually set their GRUB to load WinXP on default. Just in case someone else turn on the PC (mother, father, sisters).

poofyhairguy
August 22nd, 2005, 01:32 AM
I'm not a fan of "actively" converting people to Ubuntu or any other GNU/Linux distro. If someone were to approach me first and then ask about it, then only I'll start "preaching" to them :p


That is a good approach. Some people don't agree with it though. Some people are excited to spread Ubuntu. This is to help them, while preventing them from hurting us!

qalimas
August 22nd, 2005, 01:37 AM
Nice :D

I'm in a computer class this year (high school junior), I'm going to talk to my teacher about letting me do a one class presentation of Ubuntu. I highly doubt it, he's pro MS and Intel, and ATI, those are the big 3 anti-Linux corps XD (Considering how well nVidia works with Linux, and Intel's thing with MS coming up)

poofyhairguy
August 22nd, 2005, 01:40 AM
Nice :D

I'm in a computer class this year (high school junior), I'm going to talk to my teacher about letting me do a one class presentation of Ubuntu. I highly doubt it, he's pro MS and Intel, and ATI, those are the big 3 anti-Linux corps XD (Considering how well nVidia works with Linux, and Intel's thing with MS coming up)

Actually....Intel likes Linux. Its a long story.

qalimas
August 22nd, 2005, 01:41 AM
That's something I never would have guessed O_O Seeign it though, sparks thoughts about what Intel is doing with possibly Linspire (it seems to hold the poster image for people who don't know much about Linux, and it's multimedia stuff)?

earobinson
August 22nd, 2005, 01:54 AM
once again a great how to, i think that buffalo soldier has a good point about not converting people in the sence that you should go around trying to get your friends to switch, but there is nothing aginst showing the os and telling them about it, i know when my friends use my computer they quickly (some of them not so quickly) figure out that it is not windows and then they ask. I find one of the best ways to "convert" people to linux is to show them softwair like firefox openoffice gaim gimp (all the softwair that has a windows version) and let them know thats this is part of the GNU project and if they like that softwair then show them a live cd.

I know for me this is how i switched my msn contact list filled up so i found gaim and was able to have more than one msn list and after that it just all kind of fell into place. Now i love linux been using it for 3 years and doubt ill ever go back.

matthew
August 22nd, 2005, 02:21 AM
Hey, Poof, great job!

I would echo what some of the other have said...I rarely try to convert anyone. However, if someone is really in your two prime categories, I have made passing mention of Ubuntu that has piqued their interest and have helped a couple of people install as well. I would definitely echo your advice to NOT try with the third category.

Thanks for the thoughts!

poofyhairguy
August 22nd, 2005, 02:57 AM
I find one of the best ways to "convert" people to linux is to show them softwair like firefox openoffice gaim gimp (all the softwair that has a windows version) and let them know thats this is part of the GNU project and if they like that softwair then show them a live cd.

I know for me this is how i switched my msn contact list filled up so i found gaim and was able to have more than one msn list and after that it just all kind of fell into place. Now i love linux been using it for 3 years and doubt ill ever go back.

Amen. Thats what snagged me. I used Firefox for a long time on Windows (back when it was Phoenix) but I got tired of Windows problems. Then one day I said "Linux has Firefox, and that is my most used program by far so why not switch?" and the rest is history.

If fact, I personally feel that if you have the time a slow conversion is best. First put GAIM, GIMP, OpenOffice, Firefox on a user's machine. Then let them use it for a while. Like months or a year. Then, if you want to, show them Ubuntu and say "it uses all the programs you love buts lacks the viruses." That way might work best.

But I know that some people really want to spread Linux and Ubuntu. I kinda get where they are coming from- when you see your family and friends suffer from Windows malware and junk for years you have a want to help them. I try to help personally if I can.

The problem comes when you go to far to get people to use Linux. There is a very fine line when you start hurting the cause more than you help it. I can tell that not everyone knows where the line is and they trip into it and the whole reputation of Linux hurts as a result.

This document kinda puts forth the line. Tells exactly where Ubuntu can help from my experiance of helping people in over 2000 posts in the forum. Its the best way I can help.

sapo
August 22nd, 2005, 03:34 AM
wow... this is awesome...

poofhairguy.. i m starting today a new project with the following theme "Ubuntu for windows users", i still dont know a name for it but the main idea is to help windows users to become a ubuntu user and make ubuntu their primary os or who knows.. unistall windows from their computers.


If possible i would like to get some ideas from you.. and this howto and that "trolls" post might be a very good start for the project.

What i have in mind so far is:

A simple website where users can post and discuss guides, i want to keep it simple for anyone to be able to make guides, but i want to make a team to help me organize, filter and correct the guides, to maintain a certain quality.

But the diference about this guides from the other guides out there.. is that they are meaning to guide a windows users that dont have any linux experience, helping them find the applications that they need or see if windows are gonna fit their needs or their company's needs.

And i m thinking about making a very extensive hardware guide explaining what they have to buy if they want to try linux out without any pain.

Cause a lot of people give up linux because of hardware compatibilities.. if they know what to buy before installing linux, this isnt going to be a problem anymore.

I have some more things in mind.. the website itself isnt a problem i just have to sit in front of my gedit for a couple of hours.. but i want to make a scratch first so i dont have to stay changing the database. :p

What do you think about the idea?

arnieboy
August 22nd, 2005, 03:34 AM
Biggest Category: Someone with a medium amount of Windows experience.
Thats where u are wrong. The biggest category is not the one with "medium" experience. The medium category probably makes the most noise but they arent in the majority. What windows has done in the past 10 years (and what we can never take credit away from them for) is that it has made the average Joe who never gave a flying f about computers become comfortable with it. These people (with just operational knowledge of windows) comprise the majority and like it or not MS Windows is the reason why a computer is an omnipresent thing today. We know its crappy. but who cares? its easy to use! isnt it? 80% (or probably more) of computer users worldwide would agree with me on that and thats a huge number.
For people like me and possibly you who are not technologicaly challenged, its easier to compare the nuances of linux and appreciate why its far superior to windows in most ways. but if linux has any marketing strategy (where marketing is the keyword) it has to think of something better than just "no spyware and no viruses" to reach out to that majority of computer users who have been fed on a decade of windows.
and if it doesnt care, well..... there are always people like me and u who will enjoy it. but we will continue to be ignored by hardware manufacturers and business houses like google and yahoo and keep dreaming of the day when we can get something like "google earth" on our desktops. linux needs good marketing.. or else most ofour current linux woes will stay on forever.

matthew
August 22nd, 2005, 06:18 AM
i m starting today a new project ...
If possible i would like to get some ideas from you..
What i have in mind so far is:

A simple website where users can post and discuss guides, i want to keep it simple for anyone to be able to make guides, but i want to make a team to help me organize, filter and correct the guides, to maintain a certain quality.
Up to this point you are describing the wiki that we have in process. Please feel free to add to/edit it.

But the diference about this guides from the other guides out there.. is that they are meaning to guide a windows users that dont have any linux experience, helping them find the applications that they need or see if windows are gonna fit their needs or their company's needs.
Okay, that is definitely different and worth looking at. There are some Windows/Linux program comparisons out there that I have seen. I would recommend some Google searching first. No point reproducing what others have done, if it's been done well.

And i m thinking about making a very extensive hardware guide explaining what they have to buy if they want to try linux out without any pain.
Again I'm thinking wiki.

What do you think about the idea?
Overall, I like the sentiments a lot. I think that there are some tools trying to do exactly what you are describing that would benefit greatly from your input and participation (like the wiki...). You do have some unique thoughts that would make a new site worthwhile, maybe with a collection of annotated links to the other stuff.

poofyhairguy
August 22nd, 2005, 07:23 AM
Thats where u are wrong. The biggest category is not the one with "medium" experience. The medium category probably makes the most noise but they arent in the majority. What windows has done in the past 10 years (and what we can never take credit away from them for) is that it has made the average Joe who never gave a flying f about computers become comfortable with it. These people (with just operational knowledge of windows) comprise the majority and like it or not MS Windows is the reason why a computer is an omnipresent thing today. We know its crappy. but who cares? its easy to use! isnt it? 80% (or probably more) of computer users worldwide would agree with me on that and thats a huge number.

I know medium users are the minority. What I meant by that is that medium Windows users represent the biggest category of those that would not like Ubuntu. I know most users would fit into my first category- those with little experiance. Thats why I have hope!



For people like me and possibly you who are not technologicaly challenged, its easier to compare the nuances of linux and appreciate why its far superior to windows in most ways. but if linux has any marketing strategy (where marketing is the keyword) it has to think of something better than just "no spyware and no viruses" to reach out to that majority of computer users who have been fed on a decade of windows.

That is kinda being done...but it will never be done on the desktop. What else does Ubuntu offer a low end computer user if it is not free software without viruses and malware...what else is the main selling point? Please tell me...I'll add it to the guide.

Linux WILL be an important part of the low end user crowd. But it won't be on the desktop I believe. I will be in their firewalls, their TiVos, their cars, their home security systems, their cell phones, their refigerators, and their new Playstation.

Honestly, most of the world doesn't want a computer. Computers suck for them. They have viruses, they constantly cost money and such. For us, the multipurpose computer is great because on box can play and download our media, play our games, get us on the internet, burn our DVDs and edit our home movies (and many more things). But regular users don't get all of that out of computers often....they just get pain. If we can thank MS for anything, its getting people to expect that computers are money pits. PEOPLE FREAKING THROW AWAY COMPUTERS WITH SPYWARE! Thats great for us because it drives hardware costs down, but it sucks for the average consumer.

The average consumer wants a web browsing/email APPLIANCE. And a movie editing APPLIANCE. And a video game playing APPLIANCE. Why else did MS get in the game market? They see the writing on the wall- too many people want the personal computer to go away: media companies, hardware companies that would rather have people buy new things for each purpose, Ms. Hemmingway that hates that a virus just ate her daughters baby photos. The multipurpose computer it at its climax....in thirty years (or maybe less) it will be replaced by appliances. Ones that don't boot- but turn on. Like a TV. Or a dishwasher. Or any other low maintanance hardware.

And you can bet, when that shift comes....many of those appliances will run Linux. Its coming. The year of "Linux on the desktop" is the year the personal computer is replaced on the desktop. Its already happening. MS's monopoly will end at the same time the multipurpose computer that we know so well is only sold to the exact market Linux is used by today- the nerds.



and if it doesnt care, well..... there are always people like me and u who will enjoy it. but we will continue to be ignored by hardware manufacturers and business houses like google and yahoo and keep dreaming of the day when we can get something like "google earth" on our desktops.

I don't know about you...but I have started a process. Personally I have begun to replace the computer hardware I had that wasn't Linux compatible with stuff that is. One day my whole computer will be replaced one part at a time. I call that the true cost of Ubuntu. And I'm fine with it. Enough hardware is made in each category to make whole systems.

After reading a lot I have decided that desktop Linux will always have driver problems. This is due to two reasons (in my opinion):

1. The Linux kernel is hostile to closed drivers. Thats why you have to recompile something usually to add closed drivers. I have decieded this is a good thing- anyone that has used Linux on PPC or some other non popular platform (AMD64) will tell you that. Only open drivers made from open specs get in the kernel. Because of that situation...some hardware companies will NEVER make Linux drivers. They HATE the idea of opening their stuff up. Part of this is because some of them cheat- their software drivers actually do the things they claim the hardware does. And there aren't enough hackers in the world to reverse engineer every piece of hardware.

2. Some hardware is so cheap (web cams, wireless cards, etc.) and the competition is so fierce that the companies don't even bother to make decent Windows drivers. Many of these companies fold or go away after a while. The idea that they will make drivers for another platform out of the good of their hearts (or even to make 40% of users happy) is a pipe dream.

Drivers will always hold Linux back in the "desktop" area. I say "screw it." All of this junk hardware that doesn't work will be in a landfill one day- replaced by appliances fine tuned to perfectly work with Linux!



linux needs good marketing.. or else most ofour current linux woes will stay on forever.

Linux needs one computer seller ( a big one...like HP, Dell, or Gateway) to stand up to MS and sell a desktop computer with Linux on it. But if one does that they will lose the ability to buy OEM copies of Windows, so none want to be the first to do it. I can promise you this- the first one that does gets me as a customer. And others too. But till then...enjoy the ride I say!

poofyhairguy
August 22nd, 2005, 07:29 AM
What do you think about the idea?

Good idea...the hardware thing might be hard to do and it might not help as much because people want Linux to work with the hardware they already own....but us nerds would like the list.

I'll be honest. After much experiance in helping users in the beginner forum if you want to do one thing.....one BIG thing to help....make a terminology page.

Explain what a disto is. What a repo is. What dependancies are. What a kernel is. What Xorg is. What a desktop environment is. Etc.

That would help new users a lot!

sapo
August 22nd, 2005, 07:44 AM
Good idea...the hardware thing might be hard to do and it might not help as much because people want Linux to work with the hardware they already own....but us nerds would like the list.

I'll be honest. After much experiance in helping users in the beginner forum if you want to do one thing.....one BIG thing to help....make a terminology page.

Explain what a disto is. What a repo is. What dependancies are. What a kernel is. What Xorg is. What a desktop environment is. Etc.

That would help new users a lot!

This idea came up to me after answering the same questions everyday... man its hell to have to explain how to install an app in linux everyday... everyday people ask me the same questions... i always send them the ubuntuguide link but they dont like the console stuff and some people just want it to work.. but some wanna learn linux.

And what i want to do is kinda different from a wiki.. i dont like to everyone post everything there and the website become full of trash.. i want something that can follow a certain kind of language and to be JUST for windows users migrating to Ubuntu...

So the website content are gonna have a moderation for new howtos and it would be organized so every new howto that is posted is automatically linked with another one that is related...

And i liked the idea of a glossary but it gave me another idea.

Make a system that when i write xorg in a tutorial it uses a tootip that when the user is with the mouse over it it explains what is xorg.. and if he clicks it it goes to the xorg page on the website linking to tutorials and stuff.. that would work great :)

Btw.. i ll start making what i have in mind so far.. them we could add stuff in the future.. but the main ideia is to help newbies :grin:

Zarkoth
August 22nd, 2005, 07:57 AM
3. People that use wireless networking. Ubuntu lacks drivers for many modern wireless chipsets, and using Ndiswrapper can be a nightmare. The first time the person realizes that their device doesn’t work, or there device does work but there is not some pretty GUI program to scan and connect to available networks (I know there are, but they work with only a small fraction of wireless devices in Ubuntu) then they will think “Linux sucks” and not want to deal with it again. Please wait until a better, easier way to use ndiswrapper rolls around for these people.


You know, as I began to read this part, I laughed. I laughed good and hard, mostly because I am so in that category, lol. In fact I believe it was you, poofyhairedguy, who was the most help with my wireless card, and thanks, but it still isn't recognized, and I'm prepped to run 50ft of ethernet cord to my comp :smile:

Heh, but I find it funny that not only was I in that category, but I am also a Windows user with medium experience...the thing that really made me convert though, was the fact that,
A. I had nothing to lose, the computer I was converting was a problem anyway, and my parents' computer is the one that I, and the whole family, use the most...

and B. I was at the National Youth Leadership Forum on Technology...(bleh, that's way too much to type out, but no one's heard about it enough to know the acronym, lol)....and they had a hacking lab set up there, and all the computers in it were running Ubuntu, and as I was working my way around the comp, I liked it, lol


Anyway, great post, and a damned good read =)

poofyhairguy
August 22nd, 2005, 08:04 AM
You know, as I began to read this part, I laughed. I laughed good and hard, mostly because I am so in that category, lol. In fact I believe it was you, poofyhairedguy, who was the most help with my wireless card, and thanks, but it still isn't recognized, and I'm prepped to run 50ft of ethernet cord to my comp :smile:


Awesome. Freaking Awesome. Not that your wireless won't work, but because you solved the problem my favorite way.

Poofyhairguy's favorite way to solve wireless driver problems: run cat5 cable.

Poofyhairguy's favorite way to solve other driver problems: throw the hardware away that won't work (or sell it on ebay ) and buy hardware that does.

Poofyhairguy's favorite way to solve the problem of webcams not working: forget you have a webcam

Poofyhairguy's favorite way to solve the problem that one piece of software that you know well won't work with Linux: learn new software that does.

Tough love. Sometimes you need it.

darkmatter
August 22nd, 2005, 08:30 AM
Nice, poofyhairguy. :)

One point I usually add to my arguements is the level of flexibility FOSS has over it's closed counterparts. If you don't like the way it works, change it. If you don't have the knowledge to make the changes, there are alway's those who are willing to help.

Though slightly of topic, I am currently developing a proposal for an application framework for Linux-based OS's to prove this level of flexibility.

This proposal would allow for rapid deployment of custom applications/desktop frameworks on both desktop and enterprise levels, making the UI as malleable as clay in the hands of a sculptor.

It's an idea I had experimented with a few years ago under Window's, but Windows was not capable of fully implementing my ideas, but it did prove the concept (I had actually managed to replace the primary UI components with LIVE code). FOSS does have all the needed software technologies to actually make it work.

The major advantage of this approach to the 'desktop' is that it is specific to the desired implementation (desktop/workstation/kiosk/etc.) and is capable of being as simple (read: 'user friendly) or complex as needed, and it wouldn't require the individual setting up the system to have any real knowledge of programming (but will require skilled programmers to develop the API)

Many of the desired elements have already been implemented to some degree, but either have been presented in 'tradition' methods (hard-coded applications), or have been developed as novelties (gdesklets, superkaramba, etc.)

Sorry for sidetracking, but just trying to show that GNU/Linux is capable of being whatever you WANT it to be. The only real problem is that many involved in it's development want you to be satisfied with what THEY want it to be.

I am not necessarily implying this is a bad thing, but FOSS is capable of much more.

We CAN make FOSS into what the user wants it to be.

vkkim
August 22nd, 2005, 08:45 AM
linux needs good marketing.. or else most ofour current linux woes will stay on forever.

On that note, what happened to http://spreadubuntu.org? Mozilla's Spread Firefox campaign did wonders for its browser share...

If Ubuntu can rise to the tops of all the Linux distros so quickly [see http://distrowatch.com], why can't it do the same for GNU/Linux as a whole?

aysiu
August 22nd, 2005, 08:46 AM
Biggest Category: Someone with a medium amount of Windows experience.

The problem with converting this type of person is they have spent years learning Windows. Often they have learned how to do things (instead of how things are done) in repetitive actions (click here, click that, and blank happens) and so in many ways Ubuntu might insult them. With Ubuntu a lot of their knowledge will be thrown out the window, and they will be humbled and have to start over from square one. They probably won’t like that. You know, the funny thing is that I totally agree with your assessment about user types, but I'm actually in this group--"power user" who understands almost nothing about how computers really work. The only times I ever edited the registry were to clean out spyware, and that didn't really work. I don't think it's impossible for these medium-level Windows people (like me) to move to Linux, but I think you make a good point that they can't be converted or convinced over to Linux.

I would have been a hard convert, but since I came over to Linux myself, I came with an open mind. I think a lot of these medium Windows users don't come to Linux with open minds. They just check it out so that they can see the first thing to go "wrong," and then complain about how Linux isn't "ready" for normal users (who they aren't, anyway--they're power users, really).

Yes, I'd definitely leave my group alone for several reasons:

1. We'll come over when we're ready (for me, that was four months ago)
2. Most of "us" are actually quite happy with Windows
3. If Linux wants to increase desktop marketshare (a dubious assumption but still a goal held by many), it definitely does not need this group to do so.
4. It's hard to unlearn all that next-next-next-finish stuff!

Well, in any case, good work, Poofyhairyguy. I have to say I'm quite impressed!

poofyhairguy
August 22nd, 2005, 09:03 AM
Nice, poofyhairguy. :)

One point I usually add to my arguements is the level of flexibility FOSS has over it's closed counterparts. If you don't like the way it works, change it. If you don't have the knowledge to make the changes, there are alway's those who are willing to help.


Thanks. You comment gives me a good idea. Instead of adding it to this, I might make a whole new document. "Why Open Source Software matters to a normal person."

The purpose of this document, and the one you gave me the idea for, and the one I'm working on ("Ubuntu is great for hardcore gamers"- I have a REALLY interesting arguement on that one I think) is to start something that no distro has (I think): a volunteer Public Relations team.

If this is approved here, I will make a website to host it. A new website devoted to improving the image of Ubuntu. I want to prove that Linux users CAN be smart and professional, and that ANYONE can help out the Ubuntu project (even non programmers like me). I want to help people understand why it is important to act correctly when dealing with sensitive issues (such as converting users) and I want to make a concrete example that Linux users are not zealots.

Thanks for your comments.

poofyhairguy
August 22nd, 2005, 09:07 AM
You know, the funny thing is that I totally agree with your assessment about user types, but I'm actually in this group--"power user" who understands almost nothing about how computers really work. The only times I ever edited the registry were to clean out spyware, and that didn't really work. I don't think it's impossible for these medium-level Windows people (like me) to move to Linux, but I think you make a good point that they can't be converted or convinced over to Linux.

Whats funny is that on skill level alone I was a middle ground Windows user as well. I can't program, I can't read the registry and I didn't know a lick of Unix before trying Linux. I just like to identify myself as a nerd (I take pride in it) so I try to pretend I am in the more elite group. Its silly I think.



2. Most of "us" are actually quite happy with Windows

Happy enough with XP. The same problem MS has when they release Vista.



3. If Linux wants to increase desktop marketshare (a dubious assumption but still a goal held by many), it definitely does not need this group to do so.


Very true. This arguement is a troll buster if I ever heard one.

Thanks for the positive comments...they mean a lot coming from you.

darkmatter
August 22nd, 2005, 09:58 AM
<snipped>start something that no distro has (I think): a volunteer Public Relations team.<snipped>

Awesome. Now there's an idea worth it's weight in gold... :smile:

Hobbsee
August 22nd, 2005, 10:44 AM
Interesting thread, as i've just installed ubuntu (and then added kde - i get the best of both worlds!), and dual booted my machine. I probably fit into either the 2nd or 3rd category - i'm definetly not a newbie with windows.

Some of my thoughts/suggestions:

-expand the wiki - it's awesome, but it needs more added.
The dual-boot with windows section particularly - it's still showing the warty "how to partition your harddrive", which is unnecessary, as hoary resizes well, if you know what you're doing. On that subject, there's a series of screenshots of the partitioning process in installing ubuntu via dual boot - that definetly needs to be linked to the wiki, as the installation is the hardest bit.

-Linux is not as difficult as people might think - newbies have ubuntu guide, ubuntu forums, google, and IRC - there's plenty of documentation - but the more detail there is in it, (especially if you can stick screenshots in it), the more easily people will be able to switch, and are more likely to stay with ubuntu.

-The windows/linux program list is awesome - here's a request along the same lines:
Can someone make a list of the common commands in linux for the newbies? Stuff like sudo apt-get remove <program name> - the install is there, but I only happened to find out about the remove via IRC - I would have expected that to be somewhere in the documentation.
Other common commands like the equivalent of ipconfig release/renew in a guide (and whatever else I havent thought of yet would also be appreciated)

Playing around with the live cd for a few hours is definetly a great way to look at a distro!

To illustrate the point: Over the past few days, i've managed to install the operating system, customise a lot of it, figure out which programs I do and dont want, install new ones via the terminal - all possible due to awesome documentation.
Yet I go over to try and get wine, see how difficult it seems to be to get, and go running, figuring I will get it later...
I'm just a windows user who's been using firefox and thunderbird for a while - I have no help apart from things i find on the internet - I'm definetly no expert with linux!

Buffalo Soldier
August 22nd, 2005, 01:23 PM
-Linux is not as difficult as people might think - newbies have ubuntu guide, ubuntu forums, google, and IRC - there's plenty of documentation - but the more detail there is in it, (especially if you can stick screenshots in it), the more easily people will be able to switch, and are more likely to stay with ubuntu.The year 1997. I was 18 years old. Tried to install Red Hat 4.x and something something Caldera ( can't remember exact version number). I had the big thick RedHat guide book that came with the CD. The level of frustration... nearly cried like a baby and gave tantrum while hitting foot on floor like a baby.

Ubuntu (the OS) + Ubuntuforum (this website) = one of the 7 wonders of the moden world.

Now to more related matters. Contrary to popular beliefs/myths I find it girls are more open to trying Ubuntu than guys. In fact for my guy friends, I had to do the installation and everything for them. Yet I have two lady friends that downloaded the ISO, did the checksum, installation and customization all by themselves. All I did was guide them thru IM.

p/s: none of the girls ever gave negative comments about the brown theme.

poofyhairguy
August 22nd, 2005, 07:45 PM
-Linux is not as difficult as people might think - newbies have ubuntu guide, ubuntu forums, google, and IRC - there's plenty of documentation - but the more detail there is in it, (especially if you can stick screenshots in it), the more easily people will be able to switch, and are more likely to stay with ubuntu.

I think the reason that screenshots are not in the guide now because it already eats up a BUNCH on bandwidth. I myself would make a screenshot guide if a magic hosting fairy would come and give us the bandwidth we need.

Hobbsee
August 23rd, 2005, 04:45 AM
Good point - I made myself slightly unclear (I blame it on my exams...)

Can we have links of the images, and not necessarily the images themselves on the wiki? As far as I know, you could host the images somewhere like imageshack...

Most of the documentation is absolutely fine, only some small parts of it need work, and I dont have the information to write up there - and I wouldnt want to accidently do it wrong!

I should start complaining about the brown theme, but I wont - it's not too bad though, it could be far worse...

I think that the girls that are more technical are more open to try new things - it seems like the ones that are not technical dont use computers that much, except for email and word processing, and some instant messaging...

Oh, and as for magic hosting fairy - try www.funpic.org - it's a great free hoster...

Brunellus
August 23rd, 2005, 07:15 AM
On that note, what happened to http://spreadubuntu.org? Mozilla's Spread Firefox campaign did wonders for its browser share...

If Ubuntu can rise to the tops of all the Linux distros so quickly [see http://distrowatch.com], why can't it do the same for GNU/Linux as a whole?
web browsers are non-threatening. they don't make too many demands of their end users.

Operating systems are another story.

poofyhairguy
August 29th, 2005, 08:26 AM
Operating systems are another story.

Depends on how you present them.

christooss
August 29th, 2005, 09:57 PM
Third group Biggest Category: Someone with a medium amount of Windows experience.

You cannot bring them to Linux world beacuse of the Msn. They want a program filled with eyecandy. If I show them Gaim they don't like it beacuse it doesn't have webcam an microfon future even thouh NOBODY ever used that!!! They just see that there are some functions missing
I like msn beacuse that protocol made allot of people stoped using IRC. And Irc is normal again

There is same thing with OOo and Gimp. Win users want to use photoshop (FREE ofcourse) beacuse all graphic proffesionals use it. Many of my friends sad:"I cannot run photoshop in Ubuntu? Ubuntu sux!!" But they have used photoshop twice in their life!!!

I was really hurt when I heard many of my "power user" friends say :Linux sux!!!

I ask them why? And they say:"I have tried Linux in year 2000".

My next goal in life is convert my mother to Ubuntu. I already made her use Firefox and Thuderbird she loves them. So there are no limits for her to use Linux.

And you know how I will present Linux to my mother. IT IS SAFER!!!

I hope my post have a point.

poofyhairguy
August 29th, 2005, 10:10 PM
There is same thing with OOo and Gimp. Win users want to use photoshop (FREE ofcourse) beacuse all graphic proffesionals use it. Many of my friends sad:"I cannot run photoshop in Ubuntu? Ubuntu sux!!" But they have used photoshop twice in their life!!!


And then its probably stolen. Don't even bother with those people.

bored2k
August 29th, 2005, 10:11 PM
I'm not patient when it comes to this stuff. "Why do you use _that ?" If its coming from someone I don't want to discuss or talk with, I just throw something in the veins of "I don't learn anything by _not_ being able to know what's happening below curtains. I don't want to be yet another neophyte. I'm a systems engineering student, I have to know stuff all of you think is Godlike and impossible to accomplish. Now close that Minesweeper and listen to me, spam it!"

christooss
August 29th, 2005, 10:12 PM
And then its probably stolen. Don't even bother with those people.
I only say to them:"Live with your Viruses an spyware"

I ment free as in stolen

bored2k
August 29th, 2005, 10:17 PM
In a country like mine, where close to none computing laws exist, the "Linux is free." doesn't cut it 90% of the time. They would just say "I just go cousinX's house and burn me a Windows copy f0oL.". If I want to annoy someone and make him call himself stupid, neophyte and ignorant, I just start asking if the computers were really made for you to be constantly worring about what goes in your box in terms of virus, crapware et al. Why should he spent several hours and go nuts over them crapware. Computers were made for them to obey you and please you, not the other way around.

christooss
August 29th, 2005, 10:29 PM
Misconception 1: “Ubuntu is free right? Anything free can’t be that good”


Windows are free. Anything free can't be that good :P

All so caled Power users have a stolen copy of every program on their computer. Windows are stolen on almost 90% machines and thats why Windows are so popular. I hope BSA will take more serious actions in Slovenia. Slovenia is like Dominican republick in Computer laws. I don't know any one with legal windows.

christooss
August 30th, 2005, 12:37 AM
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS8124627492.html

This is a approach we should use :)

Im still laughing :) :)

but I don't think "power users" will get it :>


Who would you rather believe -- Microsoft, or your own eyes?

niobe_logos
September 17th, 2005, 04:15 PM
An interesting conversion resource is TUX magazine (http://www.tuxmag.com). It's a digital magazine designed for Linux newbies--lots of pictures, detailed reviews and instructions and so on. They've gone to a lot of trouble to look as "magazine-like" and user-friendly as possible.

One of the interesting things about this magazine (especially to my far-flung, on-the-road family) is that the mag isn't published in the US, or even anywhere that close to civilization. The publisher is based on some mountain out in Nicaragua, and manages everything via Internet. Without Windows...

So far, I've been doing a very slow "sell" on Ubuntu, because my family and my work situation are both hard-core Windows based and full of "power users". After several months, though, folks are starting to listen. What I do is wait until someone notices my system doing something they're used to seeing Windows do (playing a movie or streaming audio, printing a word document, showing email, or whatever) and casually mention that it's happening without Windows. For free. Or I wait until their Windows system does something uncool (like load up a bunch of spyware and viruses, request some obscure DLL, or require an expensive software upgrade to do something simple). Then I casually mention that Ubuntu doesn't do those things. And it's free.

Now I'm up to handing out Live CD's and explaining how they work. :grin:

mjkelly
September 17th, 2005, 07:21 PM
Im always asked if the files will be compatible with windows. Every single time. I think people have a conception that Windows and Linux are as different as black and white.

I just installed Ubuntu on my friends computer who fits into the medium category and he hates it. It took me like half an hour to set up like mp3 support and java and all and i got done with the console and apt-get and all and he looked at me and said this is too much work. I see where hes coming from. Like hes looking over my shoulder watching all this scrolling text and he was like uhhh this is too much.

Like i went to install limewire from ubuntuguide.org and theres all these commands about copying this and removing that and he was lookin at me like i had 6 heads. Hes used to downloading the windows exe and double clicking and thats IT. And there i am creating scripts to run and installing java and such. Heres a quiick example. I just upgraded to breezy last week and i installed this gnomebaker. It wont burn MP3s. Its telling me i need some kind of plugin. Its THAT kind of **** that HE doesnt want to deal with. Like fine, ill figure out what package is needed and apt-get it. No Problem. HE DOESNT WANT TO HAVE TO DO THAT!


I mean ive been using ubuntu for about 6 months now and then Linux for another 3 years before that so i love it but converting ppl is a problem...

St3althcAt
September 17th, 2005, 07:50 PM
Well, I think I've someone to say about this post.
First of all, I must congratulate the author of this post. It is very well done and I've recognized myself on some of those words, as I am a recently "converted" user. Not totally converted because I still prefer Windows. Ok, it has is flaws but it is a good OS (this are some polemic words for some of you). Don't want to get misinterpreted, but I think I can say I'm a experient user of Windows, I'm used to solve many troubles with other computers, either simple or the most hard, and as I am studying Networks Engineering, I had, sooner or later, to use Linux. I decided to try it for the first time, and well, I like the looks and stability, but soon a problem arrived: hum... how do I install software? How do I put my modem working? Glad for me, booted Windows, Google search and very good tutorials about that simple stuff. With a little practicing and research I began to lear something about Linux. But I get fed up with it soon. I've nothing to do with Linux. Only internet, downloads, etc.. No games (except Super Tux and Frozen Bubble, that I love, but those can't be compared with World Of Warcraft). I've then erased Linux and been some time without using it. Funny is that I don't need Linux, but I felt like it was good to get out of Windows for a while and I installed it again. And uninstalled, and installed and uninstalled... (I look like a crazy guy by doing that this often, I know). Now I've got it installed again and I'm gonna keep it (I have been reading something about Cedega and tutorials, soon gonna try). I think that for new computer users, Ubuntu, if configured for them, is an easy to use OS. For the Windows Power User, like me (I think), well it depends. There are, for me, two types of power users: the ones that know a lot about Windows and want to know even more about Windows, and the ones that know about Windows but want to know more about computers in general and other OS's. So, Windows Power Users are not that hard to convert, you only have to pay attention and see what type of Windows user he/she is. Well, this is my oppinion about this post. Sorry for some english errors it may have, I'm not in any english speaking country :P!
By the way, for me Linux needs this thing to get the attention of the common computer user:

- Better multimedia support (it is good, but it needs to be better);
- Better game support (but that is a matter of the gaming industry);
- Easier to use (it has been each day easier, and, by the way, congratulations to Ubuntu developers and all contributors, this is by far the easiest Linux distribution I've ever used, rivaling with Mandrake);

This is my opinion, open to critics or suggestions. Despite I use Windows more and like it more, you can count on me to help spread Ubuntu and Linux.

niobe_logos
September 17th, 2005, 08:01 PM
Yah, the file conversion issue is a problem, as is the "just type in these 15 easy commands and you're done" school of Linux usage. But try talking to a Windows user after they've gone through some 15 easy steps from the Microsoft support site to fix a Windows glitch, and then it's a little easier.

For file stuff, what I've been doing is working with people on things like email and Microsoft office applications after the fact. For instance, in my house Eudora was the standard for many years. I quietly switched over to Thunderbird, and six months later asked people if they'd noticed any difference in my email or attachments. "Hey, um....no." Same thing with Word: one Microsoft Office-using client was surprised to learn that my invoices and their memos had been going through Open Office instead, with no difference in readability, for months. "Really?"

I'm pretty careful to check for power users who need specialized stuff (ie., Photoshop, Quark, MIcrosoft Access). Those folks I don't usually try to sell on Linux, because that's where a lot of the conversion problems are.

Name
September 17th, 2005, 08:50 PM
Being a recent convert to Ubuntu I have to say this is a good article. Im a windows user, have been since 94, Ive been a IT admin in a 90% windows network, the other 10% HPUX K260's. I currently work for a software company that does a windows only software, dont boo, the hardware does not work in linux, ie there are 0 drivers for the hardware our software runs on. Its all voice compression and phone call recording and monitoring. I digress...

This article is excellent. Ive tried out several distros but kept coming back to this one for 1 reason, the howto's. The howtos here and the ubuntoguide.org I have to say ive never seen a distro with such clear concise this is how you do its. I think that if you are converting someone, sit them down, direct them to this and guide.org and have them read it, once they see that there are actually step by step instructions, which is a thing that in the windows world is there for just about everything, you will have them converted lock stock and barrel. I still run XP at home, my wife is comfortable with it, I game alot and they are windows games but on my laptop im at about 90% ubuntu. Ive got some small issues I am still working out like windows network printing and ads domain login, which if anyone wants to create a nice gui front end like windows has, you would covert about 60% more people.

Anyway im kinda all over the board with this post but I just wanted to say nice article.

poofyhairguy
September 17th, 2005, 10:02 PM
Im always asked if the files will be compatible with windows. Every single time. I think people have a conception that Windows and Linux are as different as black and white.

That can kinda be a good thing. Its better than someone saying "Linux can do everything Windows can do" and then people ask "well then how to I install an exe?"



I just installed Ubuntu on my friends computer who fits into the medium category and he hates it. It took me like half an hour to set up like mp3 support and java and all and i got done with the console and apt-get and all and he looked at me and said this is too much work. I see where hes coming from. Like hes looking over my shoulder watching all this scrolling text and he was like uhhh this is too much.
Like i went to install limewire from ubuntuguide.org and theres all these commands about copying this and removing that and he was lookin at me like i had 6 heads. Hes used to downloading the windows exe and double clicking and thats IT.

It sounded like you friend really wanted synaptic. The guide tells apt-get because synaptic screenshots would eat too much bandwidth.


And there i am creating scripts to run and installing java and such. Heres a quiick example. I just upgraded to breezy last week and i installed this gnomebaker. It wont burn MP3s. Its telling me i need some kind of plugin. Its THAT kind of **** that HE doesnt want to deal with. Like fine, ill figure out what package is needed and apt-get it. No Problem. HE DOESNT WANT TO HAVE TO DO THAT!


Thats fair. Middle users also hate to be told that their webcams or wireless card won't work in Linux, or that their ebay sniping software has no counterpart on the Linux side.

That why you just give them a Live CD.

poofyhairguy
September 17th, 2005, 10:06 PM
Anyway im kinda all over the board with this post but I just wanted to say nice article.

Thanks.

poofyhairguy
September 17th, 2005, 10:10 PM
Well, I think I've someone to say about this post.
First of all, I must congratulate the author of this post. It is very well done and I've recognized myself on some of those words, as I am a recently "converted" user.

Thanks



Not totally converted because I still prefer Windows. Ok, it has is flaws but it is a good OS (this are some polemic words for some of you). Don't want to get misinterpreted, but I think I can say I'm a experient user of Windows, I'm used to solve many troubles with other computers, either simple or the most hard, and as I am studying Networks Engineering, I had, sooner or later, to use Linux. I decided to try it for the first time, and well, I like the looks and stability, but soon a problem arrived: hum... how do I install software? How do I put my modem working? Glad for me, booted Windows, Google search and very good tutorials about that simple stuff. With a little practicing and research I began to lear something about Linux. But I get fed up with it soon. I've nothing to do with Linux. Only internet, downloads, etc.. No games (except Super Tux and Frozen Bubble, that I love, but those can't be compared with World Of Warcraft).

Here is a thought (and the subject of my next article)- I think Ubuntu is better for hardcore gamers.

Why? Because then you can leave your Windows side tweaked for gaming (turning services off, windows classic mode, Fat32 parition which is faster with games, etc.) and do all your work in the Linux side. Window's registry and file system fragments and crap up when you install stuff in it. I dual boot windows, and the only thing I have isntalled on that side is my games. I KNOW they run faster now then when I did everything on the Windows side.


There are, for me, two types of power users: the ones that know a lot about Windows and want to know even more about Windows, and the ones that know about Windows but want to know more about computers in general and other OS's. So, Windows Power Users are not that hard to convert, you only have to pay attention and see what type of Windows user he/she is.

Good point.



- Better multimedia support (it is good, but it needs to be better);

Mepis has the best.



- Easier to use (it has been each day easier, and, by the way, congratulations to Ubuntu developers and all contributors, this is by far the easiest Linux distribution I've ever used, rivaling with Mandrake);


This gets better with every development day.

Hobbsee
September 18th, 2005, 03:27 AM
Why? Because then you can leave your Windows side tweaked for gaming (turning services off, windows classic mode, Fat32 parition which is faster with games, etc.) and do all your work in the Linux side. Window's registry and file system fragments and crap up when you install stuff in it. I dual boot windows, and the only thing I have isntalled on that side is my games. I KNOW they run faster now then when I did everything on the Windows side.

Off on a tangent here, but is FAT32 really faster for games? I know it fragments up more...

Muhammad
October 2nd, 2005, 06:48 PM
What Users Shouldn’t Be Converted to Ubuntu
Biggest Category: Someone with a medium amount of Windows experience.

I come from this category, but I got tired of WindowsXP being slow and insecure, so here's where I stand today! :D

poofyhairguy
October 3rd, 2005, 12:15 AM
Off on a tangent here, but is FAT32 really faster for games? I know it fragments up more...

Maybe not. Google tells me its about the same.

poofyhairguy
October 3rd, 2005, 12:16 AM
I come from this category, but I got tired of WindowsXP being slow and insecure, so here's where I stand today! :D


Me too really, the trick is to never push Linux onto these people. Let them come to it.

Hobbsee
October 3rd, 2005, 02:47 AM
Maybe not. Google tells me its about the same.
The question comes from the fact that after my final exams (in a couple of weeks - yuck!), i plan to make my current XP partition into a gaming machine...

So the question then is - which is a better windows OS to put on it, purely for gaming purposes - XP or 98?

My kubuntu partition will stay safely untouched, and used most of the time :)

darkmatter
October 3rd, 2005, 07:08 AM
So the question then is - which is a better windows OS to put on it, purely for gaming purposes - XP or 98?

Depends on the games, but personally I'd say 98.

It's much smaller for one (more room for those games), plus XP sucks with legacy software.

Hobbsee
October 3rd, 2005, 08:56 AM
Cool, ok thanks.

I was most interested in performance, but space is definetly an issue, as this is a 40 gb laptop!

EdThaSlayer
May 21st, 2006, 11:31 AM
Iam one of those people that was a windows "power user" and knew a lot about windows registry. I didnt have any problems with spyware or viruses. The reason i left Windows is that i was sick of it, i wanted something new and better and more organized. In Ubuntu the organization is easy since you can change through 4 desktops[a.k.a workspaces]. Since i was mostly programming in python and got kinda sick of games[too many L.A.N parties] i thought that this was the time i switched. It isnt the first time i have been exposed to linux, some repair guy installed Fedora Core but back then i was worshipping Bill Gates and Microsoft.So now i have erased all trace of Windows and am with Ubuntu, it became really easy to install pograms since there are so many userfriendly guides on the net. Also since Python came installed with Linux it was very easy to use my own made programs!

The opensource world is so much better...:)

p.s~only have a little problem with installing Java Runtime Environment but for the rest its PeRfEcT

chakra_dude
May 25th, 2006, 10:14 AM
i enjoyed reading this thread. it's fun having problems with your Ubuntu box and its so much fun after you solved it :)

Dr. C
May 27th, 2006, 05:40 AM
There are many good points here about converting from Windows to Ubuntu.

One idea is the prescence of FLOSS on the Windows desktop. If there is no FLOSS, present I would first suggest things such as

Firefox as an alternative to IE for web browsing
Thunderbird as an alternative to Outlook Express
and my favorite
OpenOffice.org as a replacment for, Microsoft Works or a limited time trail of Microsoft Office.

Let the user first stay with Windows for a while and introduce FLOSS in situations where it is clearly better.

Quicky
May 31st, 2006, 11:25 PM
Interesting thread this, although I'm not sure I agree with some of it. I would classify myself as a medium-to-power user, if such a category can be allowed for argument's sake, and for the last two months have been using Ubuntu Breezy as my dedicated OS at home.

The decision to switch from Windows was made after my XP laptop contracted a particularly debilitating virus which managed to circumvent a series of firewalls and virus detection software. I won't say its been anywhere near easy, but the transition is complete and now Breezy reigns supreme on this computer. The other two PCs in the house run XP, and convincing my fiancée to migrate her desktops (from which she runs her business) would be nigh on impossible, (for the record I would put her computer experience in the minimal-to-medium category). The primary factor being that Ubuntu seemingly doesn't provide anything exceptional that would provoke an “I'd really like that on my PC” reaction.

For me, the struggle I had in setting up the wireless system from Ubuntu almost had me abandoning the idea completely, but I stuck for some time with a very long ethernet extension cable until I had a little more knowledge and could finally figure out the problem. Turns out, as is often the case, it was a relatively simple thing, but it did take a massive amount of forum searching in order to do something that on a Windows PC would be a two minute job.

This type of thing must have been said plenty of times previously, but nobody who has used my laptop in my house has had any trouble in doing anything typical; such as web browsing, ripping mp3s and so forth, but had they been faced with the task of getting everything to work in Ubuntu on their own PCs from scratch, I can understand why they would be put off from lack of intuitiveness. Since the OS does not provide sufficient additional bells and whistles in any obvious applications that would raise it above more widely known Windows equivalents, it's difficult to convince an alternative OS user that Ubuntu, or any Linux incarnation, would be a better option for them.

Open source software, while possibly the single greatest aspect of the Linux universe, does not have quite the same appeal to those who aren't likely to stray too far beyond the software that would otherwise be pre-installed on their Dell desktops. Likewise, if adequately protected, many users will hopefully never experience the destructive power of certain viruses or other assorted malware, so the concept of a theoretically virus-free operating system may not hold the attention quite as tightly.

When asked by a friend what this Ubuntu OS I was using was all about, he said, “Would it be worthwhile me installing this on my computer, or would it just p!ss me off?” Well the truthful answer would have to be the latter, as I know he's quite a capable PC user, but would be highly unlikely to dedicate the time to ensuring a complete and successful implementation. The emphasis on 'you' (as in 'me') performing all the various installations is, from my perspective, not a good way to convert a new user. There has to be a fundamental understanding of process and operation, some of which can be gained from a simple and efficient installation system, that gets everything working, with minimal input from the user, from the start. Not easy. Especially without definitive access to commercial drivers.

In summary, and I apologise for the long post (but I don't make many!), but Ubuntu is the operating system I use for everything outside of the workplace, and it performs all the functions I ask of it extremely well. The Ubuntu community is second to none. However, would I recommend it to my friends as a replacement for Windows? No. But that's primarily because I don't want to be their tech support. Selfish, yes, but still a valid point. People, who months from now may be playing games on their new Nintendo by waving around a Wii-mote are highly likely to be put off by something that uses a terminal to implement its most powerful functionality. Although clearly vastly different machines, comparisons between any home electrnoic devices is inevitable, and here the perceived technological gap is enormous. User friendliness as an attractive tool cannot be underestimated.

In addition, and perhaps I'm almost unique in this respect, I wouldn't describe myself as loving or hating Microsoft any more than I would describe myself as having strong feelings towards Colgate or Hoover. However, I have to admit that I love my Xbox 360 with a passion. I wouldn't give a monkey's if it had a Skoda sticker on it, I'd still be playing on that little bugger for two hours every night.

TheRealEdwin
May 31st, 2006, 11:37 PM
If games would just work without having to wait for someone else to get it working and without having to pay them.

Ummagumma
June 18th, 2006, 09:47 PM
Well, you may add to your list of who shouldn't convert:

- people who need to sync Pocket PC & desktop

- people with small kids - a lot of kiddie sites use Shockwave that isn't available on Ubuntu (if it is, please let me know how to do it !) Also a lot of children games are Windows only.

- People who like standard ways of doing things and don't like searching for & typing various code where a simple double-click should've been sufficient

- People whose only reason to try Linux is to save money

- People who blindly believe that OS with core components written by hundreds often anonymous programmers from all over the world is intrinsically safer than Windows

On the other hand, the people who would benefit from Ubuntu are:

- the people with a few spare machines around the house, who could use them as servers or internet boxes

- the people who like to tinker with their toys

- the people who like all the customization & generally better visual style of Linux

aysiu
June 19th, 2006, 12:07 AM
- People who like standard ways of doing things and don't like searching for & typing various code where a simple double-click should've been sufficient I don't see why that should be an issue unless you're installing obscure programs.



- People whose only reason to try Linux is to save money I believe in the long run you will save money with Linux. If you didn't buy your current computer with Linux in mind, you may have to spend money at first buying Linux-compatible hardware, but once you have that, you can use that for quite a while and upgrade freely to new versions of Ubuntu and other distributions. I can guarantee you Microsoft will not offer free upgrades from XP to Vista.



- People who blindly believe that OS with core components written by hundreds often anonymous programmers from all over the world is intrinsically safer than Windows Can you please explain how Windows is safer than Linux, then?

You're very good at making grandiose statements without backing them up with any reasoning or examples.

the_blue_pill
June 19th, 2006, 01:35 AM
As an XP dual booter myself (no prior linux experience) I did observe linux to be faster, safer and rock solid. But I still don't have much love for the penguin on desktop: it is such a royal pain to setup and tweak and I consider myself an experienced user. When I first installed Breezy this was what I got:

No display (X didn't start)
No wired internet
No wireless
No ACPI standby, hibernate etc.
No MIDI, mp3, DVD, avi etc (I was unaware of Automatix or similar)

It took me several weeks to eliminate all of these problems and still there are at least a dozen annoyances to take care of - oversensitive touchpad, sluggish wireless startup, no WPA, horrible firefox interface etc - when I have time. More exotic items like 3d acceleration and wine seem far far away.

Add to this the availability of games...erm critical software and you might guess that XP, with all of its backstabbing, bloated features will still remain the first item on my grub menu. Don't get me wrong - I think Ubuntu is a fabulous step in the right direction and will catch up XP eventually but not just yet.

raid996
June 25th, 2006, 11:44 AM
Well…that’s that. Good luck converting people and spreading Ubuntu. Please post here if you have success!

I can post my few successes here, I used to be a "over-the-average Windows user" then tried to switch to Linux 3-4 times with no success be4 breezy release that fullfilled my needs as of PC usage.
Now i stick to my linux laptop for university purpose and webmastering jobs i carry on, and i can say i am 100% happy.

Many university friends an many church brothers came to me and my brother t fix their pc and left with a ubuntu box instead of that horrific MS stuff. So far i managed to install webcams, modems, scanners and prnters with some problems with the latest and with pppoe adsl modems but no one has complained so far.

I have a website where i placed for my university collegues my class notes and its farily well visited, now i'm working on the website to promote open-source and ubuntu linux with a blog on the fornt page and a section for the download.
I'll let you know the results...

:eek: :eek: :eek:

raid996
June 25th, 2006, 12:00 PM
Well, you may add to your list of who shouldn't convert:

- people who need to sync Pocket PC & desktop


Actually I installed Ubuntu and I have a Pocket PC that i can Sync with Linux with bluetooth, I will try Wine/VMWare soon for Active Sync or will simply buy (with 10% of the money i spared form buying an XP license) a card reader for my Laptop. Otherwise I can sync it with a network since my PPX has WLAN and my WLAN works just great out of the box.


- people with small kids - a lot of kiddie sites use Shockwave that isn't available on Ubuntu (if it is, please let me know how to do it !) Also a lot of children games are Windows only.


Installed it on a friend's laptop, he has a 4 year old boy and a 1 year old girl, they can watch all the movies they want because multimedia works great.
And i installed plenty of learning-oriented games for the boy who already knows how to use mouse and auto-start his games (kids... dont u love them ?? :D :D )
I also managed to install a number of window games with wine.



- the people with a few spare machines around the house, who could use them as servers or internet boxes


I use linux succesflly on my personal laptop with my personal, private and most important files with full hardware support, my laptop came back to life with linux, with XP it could hardly boot up because of hardware specs who were just not enough with XP, now i can use it for more purposes and i gained plenty of speed in doing any type of work.
I also can sleep safe dreams because i know that i wont be loosing all my work just because windows went in conflict with the pasta i hate for lunch (i'm italian... :P)
I now have a safe, stable and fast laptop that cost me 1/3 of the money my friends spent to be able to use XP with the same easyness i use linux. I have full support for my OS, my friend have me to support their XP...
I dont need to backup my files every time i save a large file for the college, i can TRUST my pc... because it has ubuntu on it.

I'm sorry, but my experiene with ubuntu proove you wrong.

DiamondX
July 12th, 2006, 10:59 AM
Linux needs one computer seller ( a big one...like HP, Dell, or Gateway) to stand up to MS and sell a desktop computer with Linux on it. But if one does that they will lose the ability to buy OEM copies of Windows, so none want to be the first to do it. I can promise you this- the first one that does gets me as a customer. And others too. But till then...enjoy the ride I say!

Well, Dell does sell "open source desktops", which come with free-dos (or something like that). This makes the desktops that much cheaper, and you dont feel bad for supporting M$. I just learned this recently, and now I like Dell a lot. Hopefully laptops will be close behind.

Edit: Heres the link: http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/e510_nseries?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn

Edit 2: I just made the same system with the open-source, and the normal. Open-source came to $1,030, and normal (winxp home) came to $1,239. I did upgrade the systems to what I would like. That is atleast a 20% more for windows xp home (most use pro or mce) installed, but that is on a modified system. The open-source that I started with was ~$650.

Ummagumma
July 13th, 2006, 02:29 AM
I don't see why that should be an issue unless you're installing obscure programs.

I believe in the long run you will save money with Linux. If you didn't buy your current computer with Linux in mind, you may have to spend money at first buying Linux-compatible hardware, but once you have that, you can use that for quite a while and upgrade freely to new versions of Ubuntu and other distributions. I can guarantee you Microsoft will not offer free upgrades from XP to Vista.

Can you please explain how Windows is safer than Linux, then?

You're very good at making grandiose statements without backing them up with any reasoning or examples.

Well, Windows is written by a corporation. It has its security holes. It also has all bells and whistles a large corporation has in place to identify them. Including internal security service, employee background checks and code reviews. A windows machine behind a firewall enabled router, with automatic updates, spyware detection & antivirus tools running is pretty safe.

Linux is written by hundreds of programmers around the world, from what I read many of them are anonymous. Is there a source code review process in place ? I don't know. If I wanted to (and had the ability to) could I put some malicious code in a distro ? I don't see why not. The Linux is less targeted but that won't be for long. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it is less secure, only that it has a bigger potential to be, IMHO.

As for the hardware / upgrade issue - well, my last copy of Windows lasted me much longer than the hardware that I bought it for. My friend is still running his W2K that is now about 7 years old. He's got no desire to switch. My comment was, that using Linux only because it may save you money - that being the only or the main reason - will definitely leave user disappointed.

And finally, no need to get defensive. Nobody's claiming that Linux is crap; it does has its problems and it's better to admit them & fix them & attract larger share of the market, than to blame the end user.

ericesque
July 13th, 2006, 07:17 AM
how to convert?

1) introduce them to cross-platform OSS (think firefox, OpenOffice, gaim, etc.)

2) let them watch you play around on Ubuntu.

3) let them get interested and ask YOU questions

4) give them a live cd (be sure to explain that it's safe as long as they don't click the install icon on the desktop)

5) wait for them to get comfortable in the live environment (this may take time)

6) help them dual boot (make sure they're comfortable going back and forth and assist with issues under Ubuntu)

7) watch as they start to pursue more and more

It's funny how much this feels like converting people to Christianity. I think that a passive approach is much more successful. Being the example is the key, not explaining the example away. Always remember you're not selling something. You have nothing to gain or lose if they decide to use Ubuntu. Ultimately it is up to them to decide whether they find value in making the switch.

... I think I need to read my Bible...

cokhavim
July 13th, 2006, 01:18 PM
I used to be in that medium Windows category, but i got converted. so there IS hope for people in that category! also, i converted myself. i didn't have anyone else convert me. it was tough doing everything by myself, but this forum helped. and doing it all myself turned me into a true nerd. perhaps i was always a nerd at heart, and it took ubuntu to bring it out!

sharperguy
July 13th, 2006, 03:42 PM
anyone gonig to re-write this to be dapper-relevant?

Its a good article but there are many thing out of date.

nlcautela
July 19th, 2006, 05:52 PM
Hi,
I never had anyone preaching Linux to me and I think i belong to that third category of Windows users. Beeing like i am so interested about Ubuntu probably it's best for me not to install it, right ????

Stu09
August 2nd, 2006, 06:46 AM
Hey this was a great guide and a good read too :D
I didn't even notice it was written for Hoary until I got to the end. An update would be cool.
I agree with the passive conversion option.

Stu09
August 2nd, 2006, 06:47 AM
Stupid double post :mad:

white_tiger_daniel
August 9th, 2006, 01:51 AM
This is not a thread, this is literature. Great guide poofyhairguy... Best thing I've read in a long time.

Daniel

aysiu
August 9th, 2006, 04:30 AM
I didn't write the thread--Poofyhairyguy did.

white_tiger_daniel
August 9th, 2006, 07:40 AM
OOOPS so sorry I got you guys mixed up.. Will edit mistake.

martin95bg
August 9th, 2006, 01:49 PM
if I want to be converted , but I dont have anyone to convert me what should I do ?
most of the bulgarian community says - "read , google" , but it's so confusing in google and there are many people you find in google that had the same problem as you... and still no solution ?

martin95bg
August 9th, 2006, 01:51 PM
when you see even the hardcore users of Linux/Ubuntu can't get some things done that can be easily done in Windows ... how could that not make you quit ?

aysiu
August 9th, 2006, 04:20 PM
when you see even the hardcore users of Linux/Ubuntu can't get some things done that can be easily done in Windows ... how could that not make you quit ?
Maybe you're mistaking "hardcore users" for novices and intermediate users.

Do you have an example of this?

martin95bg
August 9th, 2006, 11:29 PM
ok now... i am trying to get Starcraft to work under wine..
when i try to connect to battle.net wine crashes.... i looked into winehq site and many comments on this bug , but not one solution...

and not just this... the sound using any of the drivers is not clear it has some interrupts... and game does not run at max speed ... and know that 166 mhz procesor and 16 mb can do just fine with this task... my procesor is 3ghz and 1024 ram

zek725
August 11th, 2006, 01:52 AM
wow... this is awesome...

poofhairguy.. i m starting today a new project with the following theme "Ubuntu for windows users", i still dont know a name for it but the main idea is to help windows users to become a ubuntu user and make ubuntu their primary os or who knows.. unistall windows from their computers.


If possible i would like to get some ideas from you.. and this howto and that "trolls" post might be a very good start for the project.

What i have in mind so far is:

A simple website where users can post and discuss guides, i want to keep it simple for anyone to be able to make guides, but i want to make a team to help me organize, filter and correct the guides, to maintain a certain quality.

But the diference about this guides from the other guides out there.. is that they are meaning to guide a windows users that dont have any linux experience, helping them find the applications that they need or see if windows are gonna fit their needs or their company's needs.

And i m thinking about making a very extensive hardware guide explaining what they have to buy if they want to try linux out without any pain.

Cause a lot of people give up linux because of hardware compatibilities.. if they know what to buy before installing linux, this isnt going to be a problem anymore.

I have some more things in mind.. the website itself isnt a problem i just have to sit in front of my gedit for a couple of hours.. but i want to make a scratch first so i dont have to stay changing the database. :p

What do you think about the idea?
yeah! you do that! :D

mortdesocrate
August 30th, 2006, 10:57 AM
It isn't about Ubuntu, but what do all of you think about my Blog (http://mortdesocrate.livejournal.com/), which deals with switching over from Windows XP to SuSE Linux? Feel free to share with as many "Window$" users as you'd like 8)

mantis3dfx
August 31st, 2006, 11:00 AM
Maybee it would be a good start to help some of us who have had a taste and want to convert. I've been trying to get ubuntu up on my toshiba satellite 1800 series, but I'm havin dramas. SOOOOO I decided to try getting answers from here. Found a thread which appeared to be on the same track as I was on, but to my surprise, no-one has answered it??? I checked the dates, of the post and it was early this year! That in itself doesn't help how ubuntu looks to the rest of the world, or help it's cause folks.

Here's the post: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=217683

I have the exact same prob as this bloke. Any ideas???

n00bWillingToLearn
September 1st, 2006, 05:18 PM
Maybee it would be a good start to help some of us who have had a taste and want to convert. I've been trying to get ubuntu up on my toshiba satellite 1800 series, but I'm havin dramas. SOOOOO I decided to try getting answers from here. Found a thread which appeared to be on the same track as I was on, but to my surprise, no-one has answered it??? I checked the dates, of the post and it was early this year! That in itself doesn't help how ubuntu looks to the rest of the world, or help it's cause folks.

Here's the post: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=217683

I have the exact same prob as this bloke. Any ideas???

If these forums don't suit you I have found that you get much faster anwers using IRC or an interesting new service at http://qunu.com . As for your specific problem, you might want to try the text based 'Alternative' install CD here is the torrent link for that http://ubuntu-releases.cs.umn.edu//6.06/ubuntu-6.06.1-alternate-i386.iso.torrent

Circus-Killer
September 7th, 2006, 01:26 PM
(NOTE: I do think Ubuntu can be very beneficial to hardcore gamers, something I will explain in a later document

Just curious about that statement? i dont see how that statement can even be made. sure there are games made natively for linux, but 90% of your good quality commercial games are for windows only, and barely work with cedega or wine. basically, i wouldnt try turn any gamer to ubuntu. seems like a fruitless chore. problem is that HARDCORE gamers usually play [windows] games within a week of their release, even with wine or cedega it takes months before they work. and as i said, their are too few native linux games of todays good quality. ubuntu is great, dont get me wrong, just not for gaming.

darrenm
September 7th, 2006, 01:43 PM
One really easy way to get any hardcore Windows nut loving Ubuntu and never going back to Windows - Make them support both Windows and Linux servers and desktops. Once you realise the vast gaping difference between how you can support the two you suddenly realise just how poor windows xp really is compared to modern linux distros.

example - to fix a remote printing problem

Linux : ssh root@remoteserver.com, /etc/init.d/cups restart
Windows : Remote desktop remoteserver.com, click start, control panel, administrative tools, accidentally clicked wrong thing as the link isnt quick enough...

doobit
September 7th, 2006, 02:10 PM
Maybee it would be a good start to help some of us who have had a taste and want to convert. I've been trying to get ubuntu up on my toshiba satellite 1800 series, but I'm havin dramas. SOOOOO I decided to try getting answers from here. Found a thread which appeared to be on the same track as I was on, but to my surprise, no-one has answered it??? I checked the dates, of the post and it was early this year! That in itself doesn't help how ubuntu looks to the rest of the world, or help it's cause folks.

Here's the post: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=217683

I have the exact same prob as this bloke. Any ideas???


I answered that thread.

| MM |
September 10th, 2006, 09:18 AM
I dont like words like convert, ubuntu should be a choice. That is the marked difference in relation to Windows, windows is often not a choice, as has been referred to as the windows tax by some.

There are similarities between many online communities, note that pc gaming communities often are comprised by those with technical interests, coding ability, and the do-it-yourself ethos that has led to many mods. They are often intensly loyal to dev-houses, like many linux users are to GNU, but i think if the spirit of collaberation and community involvement could be imparted then many would begin to think twice about linux.

The notion that people can affect change is a compelling one, if presented in the right way, i.e. a way in which uber-technical issues are not the focus, these would likely be daunting. Show how problems arise, but that ubuntu is a community of people who together make something great.

raid996
September 11th, 2006, 11:33 AM
Let me post one approach with which i ha plenty of success lately with dapper:

1- hand over a DD 6.06 live CD

2- have them install DD has dual boot with something like 10GB of hd space

3- have them install automatix with the guides form the website e have them install all the software that usually poses many problems

4- then address them to use synaptic and wiki for everything else

Actually, Ubuntu speaks for itself!!!! The tools are great, the OS is wonderful, the comunity is awesome!!! I just tip the ppl on where to go to find informations on their own... this is a copy/paste form a mail a friend (40 years old frined who has never used nothing else but windows at an average medium level):

"GREAT!!!
Man i finally succeeded in installing drapper drake, internet ok, printer ok, software ok, music and videos ok, dvd ok, organizer ok, firewall ok!!
It's just amazing how you can have the printer working without even installing a driver, Microsoft really sucks!!
Anyway I just dont know how to install the scanner, can you tip me about it?"

My response was that his scanner (like 90% of usb scanners) was natively supported by linux and that he could use xsane as front-end software. And it worked just fine...

I just want to say something... ppl will turn to linux if they can understand that THEY can handle it!! Everybody has faced problems with 98/XP/Me/2K and I dont know of one person who hasnt lost all of its data because of virus/malware/malfunction/MS bug or something like that...
Those are the facts, and ppl can see those, because they aint stupid, they just dont want to spend hours on their pc's (has we pc freaks would do) but they are willing to learn new oses if they could undesrtand that it takes shorter time/skill to do it.
The tools that Ubuntu provides can make linux (for base pc user) easier than XP or any other windows.

kwalo
September 11th, 2006, 04:26 PM
I dont like words like convert, ubuntu should be a choice.Agree on that. The word "converting" sounds bad. It's like joning some kind of evil Linux sect, trying to wipe out Microsoft from Earth. We (Ubuntu enthusiasts) should not "convert" we should show other people, that they have choice, that they have other alternatives, than Windows and offer them help in installing/setting up their first Linux system.

People often decide to switch to Linux, when they are angry at Windows. When a virus infects their system, hardware isn't compatible with their version of Windows (too old, or too new).
I didn't make anyone to switched to Linux. I tried with my cousin. I showed him thousands of reasons, why Linux is better, but he just said Windows is good for him. One day he came to me and ask me to install Linux on his machine, because since uncle Bill found out that he posseses illegal copy of Windows, Windows refused connecting to internet. Now he dual-boots Ubuntu and Windows. Ubuntu is for connecting to internet and Windows for games.

Concluding: Don't try to convert to Linux people, that don't want to be converted. Tell them, you run ther cool, full fetured OS, other than Windows, but don't try to convert! It should be their decision to switch.

raid996
September 14th, 2006, 11:57 AM
Fully agree...
A friend of mine who turned to ubuntu lately told me the following: "actually you don't get to choose linux becuase it's easier, you have to want linux for the results you cana chieve with it"
We were talking about how he managed to put up a stable, reliable, fast and complete OS in just a few days with just some help from forums, wikis and some advices I gave him.

I think he said a smart thing...

Frenchy
October 7th, 2006, 02:32 PM
"Sex is free" ... for you maybe.

randomnumber
October 15th, 2006, 06:37 AM
I recently thought that if you were to put linux magazines in waiting rooms you might spread linux. I constantly have to wait for what seems like hours and have nothing to look at but magazines that remind me of martha stuard, no insult intended. Some places might include doctors offices and oil change facilaties.

Any way I think waiting for poeple to come to you is ok but I had no idea of what linux was 5 years ago. My world was windows and there was no alternative. When I talk to people about lunix and they think they want to install it I suggest that they install it on a spare system and not one that is important to them. I also suggest that if they want to try it and do not have a spare that they install it on a new harddrive while removing the windows one. This keeps them from damageing their windows system if they ned to go back to it.

Converting, or telling someone that they should replace their current os with linux makes you responsible for that system and the users problems with that system. Encourage them to sample Linux first, not jump in head first.

kopilo
October 15th, 2006, 07:37 AM
And then its probably stolen. Don't even bother with those people.
No, then they are resistant to change, I mean I use Paint Shop Pro, Gimp, ArcSoft and if I have to Photoshop.

What most users seem to have trouble with understanding is that outside of Photoshop you can do just as many things and what you learn is transferrable between image editors.

Maybe it is just me but Photoshop has it's own complex way of doing things (I mean there is a 'history brush' for godness sakes).

Anyone in IT knows that you learn to be adaptable or you become extinct, these users are going to find their skills (if any at all) are going to become extinct. No need to bother arguing with them, time and change will force them to change their perspective.

kopilo
October 15th, 2006, 07:43 AM
Converting, or telling someone that they should replace their current os with linux makes you responsible for that system and the users problems with that system. Encourage them to sample Linux first, not jump in head first.
Exactly, and with the fact of Live Discs this is 100% possible.

However that said if someone is on dial up, Linux is not really an acceptable OS because of downloading and installing large programs from the internet.

Circus-Killer
October 15th, 2006, 08:37 AM
kinda agree with you there. but then again, i dont think you can get away with using dial-up for windows. still too many updates and big program downloads.

kopilo
October 15th, 2006, 08:41 AM
When I was on dial up, I just never updated Windows and kept my security as strong as I could (with a firewall and many spyware programs)... I used RC1 for about the past two years with only managing to get one virus/spyware/bot (yes it was all three, nightmare I tell you).

However yeah, you'd expect the adverage user to download the MS security updates which does take a bit of time.

Tara
October 18th, 2006, 08:33 PM
I am new to Ubuntu - just installed it last night. I fell into Linux through my job as a System Administrator, and I have to say that I'm hooked.

I am very Windows-experienced, and realized that Windows "dumbs" down computing! I can see how the average user would not be interested in any Linux distro, due to the daunting nature of the OS, but Ubuntu seems to be a better alternative.

Just wanted to say thanks to all of you who are involved in this project. I'll be presenting the "choice" to all of my family for Ubuntu!

Kateikyoushi
October 18th, 2006, 08:40 PM
I absolutely agree with it that if you can't offer help while they learn to use linux do not replace their system, could easily cause more harm than good. My parents and my sister have 2 computers each so setting up dual boot was safe despite the fact we meet few times a year and I can't help if something breaks.


Exactly, and with the fact of Live Discs this is 100% possible.

However that said if someone is on dial up, Linux is not really an acceptable OS because of downloading and installing large programs from the internet.

Could try to use the dvd version in that case.

alecjw
October 24th, 2006, 11:12 PM
I fit in to category B but i was converted, but not by a person: I didn't need to be told down bad windows was, i worked it out myself. I kept finding problems with windows, mkost of whihc i patched up with a not very ideal solution (often costing lots of money). Eg. When i got a virus, i bought norton anti-virus. When i couldn't burn multi-session CD's, i bought a random CD burning program. Wehn i couldn't specify the compression alogorithm of a zip file, i bought a program whihc didn't fit in very well with windows explorer at all etc.
Eventually, I gave up and looked into linux (i've forgotten how I heard of it). I went to the most obvious site: www.linux.com I had a look at SuSE, the live DVD. It was OK but I couldn't connect to the internet. So I carried on using windoze. Then I felt like trying a different distro. I went back to www.linux.com and they told me to have a look at www.distrowatch.com. Ubuntu was no1. I downloaded the hoary livcd, but never actaully booted or even burnt it. I still carried on using windoze. A year later, I came back and hhad a look at Dapper, this time I actailly booted it. I immediiately fell in love with it. I shrunk my 200GB windoze partition by 20GB to install ubuntu. I still had no interent connection, so I carried on using windoze until I found out how to get my wireless card working. Then I shrunk my IWndoze partition by another 180GB:)

Noahod
October 25th, 2006, 12:47 AM
Very nice post. You make an interesting point that ubuntu preachers should really be doing more than just "spreading the word".

It did make me think about the installing process though, maybe we need a tool for customizing the install cd that us "geeks" could use for the people with little experience (category A people)

For example, if someone asked me for a windows XP cd with openoffice, latest updates, video codecs etc I could roll my own dvd using nlite (http://www.nliteos.com/nlite.html) and some batch file scripting.

Rather than have the distro forking more ways into kubuntu, xubuntu, etc maybe we could have a tool that lets you select a few things and burn a cd iso with everything included, for example it could let you choose default repos, some packages from those repos, a post install script that could be run. (and possibly even a custom kernel for those difficult cases you were talking about).

This tool could also be used for other ubuntu people who are not comfortable rolling their own scripts, but are interested in automatic or easier rollout for a particular task. (Schools, government, business?)

Anyway, that's my 2c.

daniel1212av
February 2nd, 2007, 12:13 AM
Hi, i am quite used to Windows (mostly Windows 9x) from the registry to doing clean, full installs quickly (and in which Linux helps), but see much potential in the Linux concept, but the grace of God. I have tried quite a few distros - Knoppix, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS, Simply Mephis, Xandros, Ubuntu, Puppy, My favorite live one is Knoppix - 2 minutes to loaded desktop on my 650mhz AMD (k7 pro mobo) 320mb ram, with 2 HD's; 4 partitions).
I would like to use UbuntuCE 6.10, but would like to find my windows drives on the desktop, and auto mount them at boot (like Knoppix does), without going thru a lot of running scripts. I think this would make Ubuntu much more attractive to many Windows users.
Thanks for listening. :)

jake3988
February 2nd, 2007, 05:43 AM
The only thing I must warn people is that if you're a linux newbie (which I still fairly am), are somewhat careless and looking into modifying things... linux systems can break.

If you don't know what you're doing, it can be hard to fix. Fortunately, there's incredibly slow live cds that can help fix the problem!

But yeah, its free. Most linux distros (not sure of Ubuntu) are backwards-compatible for quite a while.

And most importantly: you don't have to search the internet for programs. 90% of the time the programs are in the repositories and are as easy to install as clicking a box.

This means that you don't have to deal with 3rd-party software from websites with loads of spyware.

Repeating, its free!

darrenm
February 2nd, 2007, 11:32 AM
Very nice post. You make an interesting point that ubuntu preachers should really be doing more than just "spreading the word".

It did make me think about the installing process though, maybe we need a tool for customizing the install cd that us "geeks" could use for the people with little experience (category A people)

For example, if someone asked me for a windows XP cd with openoffice, latest updates, video codecs etc I could roll my own dvd using nlite (http://www.nliteos.com/nlite.html) and some batch file scripting.

Rather than have the distro forking more ways into kubuntu, xubuntu, etc maybe we could have a tool that lets you select a few things and burn a cd iso with everything included, for example it could let you choose default repos, some packages from those repos, a post install script that could be run. (and possibly even a custom kernel for those difficult cases you were talking about).

This tool could also be used for other ubuntu people who are not comfortable rolling their own scripts, but are interested in automatic or easier rollout for a particular task. (Schools, government, business?)

Anyway, that's my 2c.

You mean like this? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ubuntu_OEM_Installer_Overview ;)

Athanasius
February 2nd, 2007, 05:54 PM
I used to be one of those that you say shouldn't be (or should be very careful) converted.

I think that it does appeal to M$ power users.. especially when they have to constantly reformat their families' computers. I get far less calls for help with Ubuntu then I did with XP and that is a great part of the appeal for me.

Besides, in XP I felt that I was as proficient as anyone could get in it without paying serious bucks for training. I don't think I'll ever have Ubuntu licked.. I kind of like that because I would stop liking it if I figured it all out.

daniel1212av
February 2nd, 2007, 11:46 PM
>The only thing I must warn people is that if you're a linux newbie (which I still fairly am), are somewhat careless and looking into modifying things... linux systems can break.<

Yes, i have been there, and as a tweaker i figure if i fix more things than i break i am ahead of the game. But the thing i mentioned, that of auto-mounting windows drives instead of treating them as if they did not exist, should not be something that even requires running terminal and scripts. With Windows and many other Linux distros that is done by default.

I have and want to experiment more with Linux, and see much potential with it, but many people do not have the time or energy to learn and make Linux close to equal to Windows as regards initial ease of use and default ability, etc. The closest distro i have found to making that change over easier by default is PCLnuxOS (http://www.pclinuxos.com/news.php), but which it has little promotion (unlike Ubuntu). I say this not to promote windows but in the hope that Linux can become better, to do more good with.

gummo
March 31st, 2007, 12:11 AM
Stop calling me nerd :(

mulletman1004
May 7th, 2007, 01:52 AM
Oh come on now . . . yea Ubuntu can be scary but let someone who wants to try Ubuntu out screw around with it. its the only way they'll learn :D now I'm not saying let them wipe out their windows partition or something like that. Show them how to install or something, but after that let them be a free spirit! ha ha
peace
mulletman1004

DoneRightI.T.
June 16th, 2007, 07:57 AM
install Kubuntu for users that are way to used to windows xp, and be sure to:

A: explain permissions to them, I use an apartment building analogy, the super has the keys to everything, and you have keys to your apartment: etc....
B: I 100% agree, ensure that hardware is all working and functional.
C: Configure VNC, and for a quick and dirty trick just register them with a dyndns account if they have a dynamic IP.... this will save you much hasstle when trying to provide support.
D: ensure they have all of their windows files in a usable format, ie. my documents and such...


Make the realization that converting a friend, or a professional contact is a commitment, if you aren't willing to commit, then don't do it... I wouldn't buy a car I couldn't drive.

little bit of background: I attempted a conversion to server when freebsd was the "in" thing, finding my network card drivers was a difficult enough process.... we know where that went.

Now I revisited the idea with Ubuntu: the end result, done right I.T. Officially supports Ubuntu and Kubuntu, not only that, all of our servers are on it, as well as workstations, and a few clients :).

Looking to get some live cd's as I have some contacts in the industry interested in an "official" live cd.

"A good cup of java comes one bean at a time"

yuku-aki
October 11th, 2007, 04:38 AM
The most interest I've seen is when I show them Beryl. As soon as they see the transparent cube, multiple desktops, changeable behaviors/appearances to no limit, they're hooked. At least to the point of asking for a CD.

I've gone through installation with a couple people, and have been amazed to see positive responses to unfamiliar environments.

almancora
October 11th, 2007, 02:05 PM
You're right!
I belong to Catagory A!
I find ubuntu and the open-software programs, much more riendlier to me than windows and al the trail-version programs, crack needs and spyware. In windows I had the feeling that the programs all wanted to take over my computer. In stead of working together they each wanted to do all tasks, steeling power from each other when installed.

AmericanYellow
October 12th, 2007, 05:43 PM
I've tried to convert MS users to Ubuntu but 99% go back to Windows because they have a hard time installing, compiling, etc. They say its too techy!

DeadSuperHero
November 12th, 2007, 06:56 PM
To be honest, I think GNOME's actually easier to use than KDE, for beginners.
Also, try putting the Gimmie bar on their panel, it's really easy to navigate, and it's also awesome!

st33med
January 27th, 2008, 04:05 AM
What about people who say "Linux doesn't work with Windows programs"?

And, how would I talk to them about converting to Linux?

AnonCat
January 27th, 2008, 06:11 AM
What Users Shouldn’t Be Converted to Ubuntu

Biggest Category: Someone with a medium amount of Windows experience.

Often these people will call themselves “Windows power users” but you can identify them by their knowledge level. People in this category include those who can protect themselves from Viruses and Spyware (since that is a big benefit of Ubuntu).

I don't completely agree with the above. You also have to take into account the personality of the person you're working with. If they have an open mind and a willingness to learn, they might enjoy the novelty of a new operating system and come to prefer it even if they fit into the category quoted above.

BLTicklemonster
January 27th, 2008, 06:45 AM
Sorry poof, Linux is still a few years away from me trying very hard to sell people on it.

Drop a pci card into an EMachine T3508, and try to run the live cd. You can't unless you know to dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg, and change the card from 1:5:0 to 2:4:0. In the middle of trying to boot the live cd, that is.

Try dropping a hard drive in after you've installed, and accessing it like you would in windows.

and on and on.

I've removed windows from this computer, and run just ubuntu. I have two gutsy's installed. One will network, the other one won't. One will play unreal tournament, the other one won't. One will rip and burn dvds the other one won't. (the one that plays UT is the one that won't do dvds) One of them decided on a whim to have the HAL failure to initiate error (which I finally resolved)

No idea why, either. Both were set up the same way with the same settings and everything.

No. I'm not about to try to get people to use something this volatile. I'm having fun with it, but I doubt most people would want to deal with the headaches.

phillipchandler
April 22nd, 2008, 11:36 AM
I hate people who try to impose their ideas and likes onto other people. Your now starting to sound like a government, a boss, a religious sect, a plonker who deosnt know better.

You shouldnt impose ubuntu, you should be selling Linux, not a specific distro. Linux is an alternative, not a replacement. NEVER sell linux to people who havnt asked for it, but rather give a handfull of live CD's to people who have stated an interest, and say "Heres a few live cd's, give them a try, see which one you like and which one picks up all your hardware or most of it. Thentake it from there."

rnrover
April 22nd, 2008, 03:25 PM
Linux needs one computer seller ( a big one...like HP, Dell, or Gateway) to stand up to MS and sell a desktop computer with Linux on it. But if one does that they will lose the ability to buy OEM copies of Windows, so none want to be the first to do it. I can promise you this- the first one that does gets me as a customer. And others too. But till then...enjoy the ride I say!


Dell has stepped up and is offering ubuntu on the desktop and also their server line comes with a linux cd if you order one without an OS system. I guess you will be buying Dell huh!:lolflag:

Tylazene
April 24th, 2008, 06:55 AM
I've almost totally switched from being a medium windows user. Theres only a few games that I haven't had the time to get running in wine. The change was easy for all the general things like Internet , email, documents. I had some problems figuring out what programs to use for movies (there's like a dozen) and getting them configured to play. Still having a problem with recording sound too. I'll get it figured out eventually.

I'm trying to get a guy at work to switch telling him how safe Linux is from viruses and worms. He gets them because he downloads lots of torrents (and who knows what else) and is always on-line 24/7. I had to warn him that I've had problems getting windows and Ubuntu to play nice together on a dual boot (for some reason). I don't try to switch anyone that needs to have everything working "right now" within fifteen minutes of install. Ubuntu is likely to turn them off.

Ubuntu and Linux in general does not seem quite as consistent as windows and regrettably is a major stumbling point in becoming real competition for windows. I would love to see Ubuntu start taking serious market share from microsoft but still remain free or at least very low cost. At the same time I like the small community feeling and hope that It doesn't grow too popular.

I consider Ubuntu to still be a pc hobbyist OS. I and many other people have spent several hours behind the keyboard trying to get everything working correctly that windows does right out of the box. I don't mind this because I take pride in the fact that I was able to figure out something that most windows users couldn't. I'm sure that if someone grew up with Ubuntu and then tried to switch to windows they would call it devoid of features (all those nifty little programs) and unsecured.

issashu
April 24th, 2008, 08:30 AM
I switched completly to Linux a few months ago. Untill recently I was running opensuse, but since I got my vaio fe21m laptop...I surrendered. It had way too many problems with the hardware and most were crutial, but had just a barelly working workaround (webcam, sony acpi, card reader even if not that crucial, firewire,etc). Now with Ubuntu it is somewhat better, but far from what I would call a mass OS (still have serious problems with webcam, sony acpi and firewire).
Converting someone with basic computer knowledge from windows to linux will have the benefit of making him safe from viruses and malware (until someone starts asking those people for the root password by offering free iPods :P ), but don't expect them to able to deal alone with everything. Many programs have the bad habit of breaking for no apparent reason or not starting even if everything is set up by the book. For example my father uses his PC just for office work, mail and some very VERY light web browsing (almoust none :) ). His PC operating knowledge is limited to only this areas and even so he has problems working. Now I can't imagine, if for some reason I have to tell him to open terminal and ...

Until everything is able to work out of the box, it will be hard to offer linux to someone else, then group B and the medium PC users. I am trying to convert my girlfriend right now, who is quite good with PCs and can assemble/dissamble one and install/tweak windows freely, but is the "out of the box works" supporter.

The EEEPC project is a great way to promote Linux and probably the best one so far. Hope more manufacturers will join ASUS

jsudlow
August 6th, 2008, 04:50 AM
Dear Friends,

Recently I've been making lots of money converting windows users to Ubuntu. I'm a good salsman and convince people to pay me 50 dollars to back up their windows and install ubuntu. The key SELL is to show them the cube feature in compiz with cube caps. It always blows everyone away. Also, virtualbox with xp loaded already helps. When they see XP load from within Ubuntu, I can see gears start to turn in their eyes! Thats how I put photoshop on people's ubuntu installations with no problems. ALso they play their games that way. Anytime they have a problem they know they can call me on my cell phone. I've converted 5 people so far and am considering telling them I'll have classes every saturday to further educate them. FRIENDS this Ubuntu OS is a BIG thing. I"m amazed at how many uneducated/super windows power users have taken a liking to ubuntu. Sometimes my clients even show me things I didn't even know about ubuntu. I'm getting a great response from everyone and their all happy and satisfied. I even have one guy going into the terminal, doing dmesg | tail, to detect where his USB device is, and he EVEN knows how to mount it correctly to a custom mount point he made. Guys you can make tons of money if your willing to convince people that Ubuntu is better and can do anything windows can do. Just take that leap of faith and convert them!!!!!!

Also, I dont know what you guys are talking about but 3/3 laptops I convereted, the wireless worked flawlessly so.... Dont be scared nerds. Selling someone Ubuntu, and then it not working right does not 'damage' the linux community. That point is such a major cop out. Promise them the moon, the sky, everything, you have to put it all on the line TO SET A CONVERSION IN MOTION IN THE FIRST PLACE! I've been hustling in the Linux/Ubuntu sector for a month now, and in order to convince them you really have to be admament, be ruthless, shove it down their throats, make all the money you can on the support. And that my friends, money off of support for software is going to be the cornerstone in the future market of software. START NOW!!!!

-Jon
jsudlow@gmail.com, email me, I'm in the chicago area if anyone needs tips or a conversion, I'll drop my price to 30 for people who contact me via the web!!!!

zombrax
August 10th, 2008, 01:27 AM
I prob end up in the med-power user in the windows environment. This is mainly cause of the computer industry out there advertising for a lot of jobs for M$ admin etc; however my whole goal do is to learn and get into *nix so that one day i can be doing server level sys admin with *nix. That's still a fair way away.

I started with Red Hat and Debian way back say 5 yrs ago and damn that was hard job. I managed to get my systems up and running but back then dial up was a b*tch to work and I eventually forgot about my systems and ended up in square one.

Currently, I run Feisty Fawn on an 1800 Toshiba laptop; most things work except for the wireless but i got Ethernet so I'm happy that way. My laptop only has 256MB RAM and its painfully slow. My biggest annoyance is running video clips as after a few random ones I get like a blue screen that obviously cant get out of. I have to push the ON button to switch the laptop off and power it back on. Its a mystery which it does this.

I've been solely using this laptop for the last 5 months since I've been away from home and have learned a lot of new things in Ubuntu. i even bought a book off amazon teaching myself Ubuntu sys admin stuff; still in the process of reading it.

So how will i cope when i get back home? Firstly, Ubuntu will be upgraded to the latest LTS version on my desktop. I will have another desktop running XP (which i think is a good OS) for running games and video/photo editing. I have played with GIMP a bit on this laptop but I think i need more grunt to play around with it properly. So photo editing might be transferred to the Ubuntu machine at some stage.

On the topic of converting ppl into Ubuntu, I personally think it should a self-interest thing. You need to have that desire and that initial interest to switch and above all have the patience to learn and have dedicated time to learn. Its not easy and it requires dedication and these are some of the reasons that's driving me to master *nix.

I really like Ubuntu and its about time I made a stand and switch to Linux. Even thought it wouldn't be a complete switch its still a damned good effort.

Thanks once again for this thread and above all for this fantastic community. I plan to be a part of it for a long time.

poebae
November 7th, 2008, 07:24 AM
A: explain permissions to them, I use an apartment building analogy, the super has the keys to everything, and you have keys to your apartment: etc....
Thanks for that, I'm gonna use that :)


C: Configure VNC, and for a quick and dirty trick just register them with a dyndns account if they have a dynamic IP.... this will save you much hasstle when trying to provide support.
This is a great tip too :)

elnav
November 13th, 2008, 10:17 PM
After reading this thread I would like to offer this suggestion. I am a windows user but have recently (last week) switched to Ubuntu out of necessity. To me a computer is simply an appliance I use in my work as a consultant who has to communicate with clients around the world. I need to send pictures, text instructions and CAD drawings independent of time zones etc. A computer is the only tool that provides all of the above. The most obvious difference to Windows users is the special jargon that clearly labels the linux users as computer nerds and geeks as opposed to ordinary people who just need a computer to do ordinary tasks. This has the effect of scaring away a lot of windows users who are not into programming but are tired of being hit with tr*j*ns, virus and other m*lw*re. I was nearly bankrupted by a particularly nasty malware that destroyed all my computers and my back-ups. I live in a remote region far from any town or computer stores. The computer is my only link to the world.
Just as a chef sees a stove as a tool, not an end in itself, I use computers, but do not live programming 24/7. I am somewhat computer literate and can assemble one from bits and pieces but that is not my entire life. Right now I am having trouble understanding all the jargon included with any help notes provided by the Ubuntu help file.
Despite wanting to switch to linu, this insider jargon is a real impediment. Where is the glossary? To attract more windows users soften the computer nerd image and make it so they can relate more readily.

kb7smm
November 13th, 2008, 11:01 PM
Jsudlow at post #117 charges $50 to assist ubuntu incompetent users to get ubuntu running properly on their computer. well i admit my incompetence. i would gladly pay $50 for competent technical assistance. Know any competent ubuntu user in phoenix or yuma az who like to provide technical assistance? (of course a $30 special would be nice).

kb7smm
November 13th, 2008, 11:04 PM
Of course how would i know you are competent?

oldsoundguy
November 13th, 2008, 11:17 PM
have NOT read all of the entries in this thread .. but

You can NOT "convert" a Windows user to Ubuntu or any form of Linux. They have to make up their mind that they want to look at the system with an open mind. You will also find it VERY difficult to make them understand that they do not need all of the protection required for Windows to be able to get on line with Linux .. the propaganda has been running a long time and they accept it as fact that Linux is going to be hard to learn how to use (when those of us using the system for any period of time more than a week realize that today's builds are EASY to use and install (except in those proprietary laptops).

And if the primary use of the Windows user is to waste a lot of time playing games, rather than doing actual computing and work, then you will be VERY hard pressed to convince them in any manner.

PLUS, there still are some programs in Linux (not many now) that are really not ready to be used as full bore replacements for some programs for Windows (the Adobe kennel of software, to site one example.)

You have to admit to yourself that there are still too many Windows users that are totally TERRIFIED of trying something out of their comfort zone. (and maybe even feel sorry for them!)

heroidi
November 14th, 2008, 04:34 PM
i've convertet a friend to a ubuntu user and i've installed ubuntu on 2 school computers :D

Coreo
November 26th, 2008, 09:49 PM
3 partial converts (dual booters), and 1 full convert.
;)
Hopefully some more on the way.

I do have a few friends though who are completely against the idea of Ubuntu, or any linux build. They say, "I've been using Vista for a while, and I have no problems with it! It works great for me!"
Well having been a computer technician for several years, I can say myself that Vista does not always work, XP does not always work, and Ubuntu does not always. That's just the way things are!
However, I find Ubuntu to be far more consistent, so the friends I've converted have all been very happy with their "new-found OS"

To "sell" the idea of Ubuntu, I usually mention the possibility of a dual boot, so that they can save their old information.

Lending people LiveCD's is also a very effective way of spreadin' the love. Lol.

Keep it up everyone!

cta16
December 11th, 2008, 03:04 AM
The first post makes it sound like some religious conversion. It doesn't have to be. Just show them Compiz. That's how I was won over.

Coreo
December 11th, 2008, 04:25 PM
"WOAH! What did your computer just do?!"

Me: "It's a cube."

"Can my computer do that?"

Me: :)

gimcrack
December 11th, 2008, 04:46 PM
I'm a computer tech, I work on computers on the side. I'm a certified Microsoft tech. And I got to say I hate Windows.

I love Linux, I mean I'll work on your Windows infested computer and get it going again. I mean it's a pay check.

But I tell every body I don't use Windows I use Linux. When people go to my house and check out my set up. My computer has a lots of eye candy. And I have all the high tech accessories hardware attach to my computer.

People just have there jaws wide open. Because they didn't know a computer can do that. My computer is in the living room. I don't have a T.V. set just my big *** monitor 5.1 surround sound speakers. You can't even see my tower because it's well hidden.

I have my computer set up as a media-center. I have tons of movies, music, games, fun apps to use. All store on my network server in another room.

Its fun to amaze my friend what Linux can do. All this for free. I might be able to set up my system with Windows and commercial apps and all. But that would cost me money. And I like all the Linuxs open source programs and how stable it is.

Peace-Out

cta16
December 12th, 2008, 07:53 PM
"WOAH! What did your computer just do?!"

Me: "It's a cube."

"Can my computer do that?"

Me: :)

Yup, that's when you got them hooked. If you convert 10 windows users to linux, you can go to linux heaven (mac users count for 2).

questioning
December 12th, 2008, 10:47 PM
converting ppl , whether it be a new religion or just a new OS is always retarded.

if a friend trys to convert me for something he wont be my friend anymore.

BigCityCat
December 13th, 2008, 11:11 AM
Well I'm new to Linux and I fall into the category of users who have a middle ground of experience with windows. Enough to download ubuntu, shrink my hard drive and install ubuntu.

I like Ubuntu. I did mess it up a couple times and had to delete it and reinstall, but I got it working really good right now. I like it because I can customize it the way I want it, but don't ask me to do much with the terminal. I had to use it some during the set up. For stuff like getting the movie player to work out of the box. I just cut copied and pasted from instructions off of this website. So I figured I could trust it, but there is the real danger. A person like me could mess Ubuntu up by pasting commands.

Yes if a "granny user" wanted to use Ubuntu out of the box it would take a little tweaking. Maybe be a little difficult, and then they would get a vanilla o/s. It would work but nothing like spending the money and getting a pretty O/S.

For someone like me. A person that doesn't have a lot of experience but enough to figure it out off the internet, It's really cool because I tweaked the hell out of it and I got a pretty good looking system. So the custom ability of it is a lot of fun.

I fell pretty safe with it. Just keep the password safe and don't screw with the terminal unless I know for sure what is going on there. I really don't know what the firewall is doing but I see kb roaming through it so it must be analyzing some sort of data.

I used Gimp to design a picture to put in the back ground of the panel. I like Gimp but I need to play with it some more. Oh and that avant dock utility seems unstable. I'm not using it anymore.

Right now I have a dual boot with Vista and Ubuntu. Both O/S are working good. I have 232 total gigs on my hard drive and I allocated like 80 to ubuntu. That's plenty. I have a 2 cpu's with 64 bit platform and 4 gigs of ram so I have plenty of power.

I'm sold on Ubuntu but I have all this security on MS and all my private data is on there. It's really Internet security that I am worried about. I'm afraid to do all my banking and stuff on Ubuntu without security. So for now I am keeping Vista as my primary O/S. I know you say MS is the one that is vulnerable, but I have used MS for 10 years and I have never had a virus and none of my information has ever leaked out. At least that I know of. I use Norton. Sure I had to pay for it and it's a resource hog. Sure I could get free Avast or AVG but I figure if I pay for it then I know they are working to protect me. I trust Norton. I use it to keep all my passwords. I don't let windows store any of that. All I let windows do is update and do it's fire wall. Anyway I just wanted to say that so if there is a flaw in my thinking or you had any suggestions with regards to internet security and banking with Ubuntu and passwords. I don't know that I trust firefox to keep them all and I can't remember everything.

Oh yeh, I'm new lol. Talk to ya later.

n2dabloo
December 14th, 2008, 08:33 PM
I really enjoy showing Ubuntu to Windows and Mac users. My Chief Mate is a Mac nut. He was thoroughly impressed with my system when he saw it last (Hardy Heron at the time, Intrepid now), and that's before I got the driver for my graphics card (intel 965). I can't wait to show him all the eye candy with CompizFusion now that I have that up and running. Another shipmate bought a new laptop with Vista on it. The guy lives in a 3rd world country. Anyway, once he saw my system and I explained that I don't need or run any antivirus software he was sold on it. I gave him the disc and coached him along for a few days till he felt comfortable with it. He did not keep Vista. My wife's interest in Ubuntu has grown considerably too. I think I'll get her a System 76 desktop soon. I think Ubuntu "sells" itself so to speak.

Rylin
December 16th, 2008, 03:48 AM
I'm very open-minded when it comes to trying out new OS's or anything computer-related. So when it came to trying out ubuntu last year, I was hooked mostly from what I saw of compiz and all the cool effects. I've been running dual boot with Ubuntu/Vista and although I have to use vista alot for graphic design and gaming, I'm like a kid on christmas day who can't wait to logout and get back on Ubuntu. ;)

Although I find both OS's have their certain strengths, Linux just feels less cluttered than windows. I don't have to install firewalls, anti-virus, spyware removers and all the other miscellaneous software that windows users have grown used to having take up their system's resources.

With Ubuntu, the biggest strength is its customizability. I can customize linux exactly how I want it, what I want to see and how I want it displayed. Everything is free and most of the popular apps are just as good, if not slightly better than their expensive window counterparts.

The trick to hooking windows/mac users into using linux(Ubuntu) is to let them boot up the liveCD. ;) Show off the compiz effects and some of the popular apps like open office and your golden. Don't try and force them to install it, but recommend they dual boot if they like what they see and offer to help them along as they continue to try out Ubuntu. :guitar:

mjolnar
December 17th, 2008, 04:04 AM
I have been doing Ubuntu for just over 5 months. This last version 8.10 has a feture to use a USB Flash to make a copy of your operating system, you should see the look on peoples face when you plug it in their and they are able to try what you do normally.

I have a duel boot Vist/Ubuntu. I hardly ever go into Vista anymore, have switched the boot order, just turn it on and it powers up, no login needed. People have to know your password to get into any files, so it is no big thing if they use your XWindow to try out compiz. If they try compiz they will load Linux on their computer.

ArcticWalrus
December 17th, 2008, 07:07 AM
As a very new Linux user (this week), I think I can give some perspective to this a little bit.

I switched from Microsoft because it WAS NOT EASY... PAYING Hundreds if not thousands of dollars on software and new hardware was NOT EASY! Not to mention dealing with security holes throughout.

When is that ever easy!

I hate Microsoft and have since I was 15, 10 years ago because of everything they put me through... The insecure nature, more software for that... jesus and for 6 months I dealt with Windows ME when it first came out because I was given a new computer.

I've never been that into tinkering with my system but I know some things and I consider myself a quick learner.

I'm planning on sticking with Ubuntu and eventually learning more about code which I don't know right now... look at my previous posts if you have the time... I am completely new.

I used Windows for many years, and prefer Ubuntu and plan on sticking to it I think my type of user has been overlooked.... although (granted) I haven't read all the pages in this thread, just the OP.

iheartubuntu
December 19th, 2008, 06:22 PM
Ive converted many people to Ubuntu, except for my wife. She does all of our personal finances with Microsoft Money (shes an accountant) and I cant get MS Money to work on Ubuntu. Any tips out there to get it running with Wine?

biggiemokey
December 20th, 2008, 05:32 AM
Then if all of their hardware work…YOU install it. YOU go through the installation. If you know they would get freaked out by the scrolling lines part, don’t let them watch. YOU install Java. YOU install Media Codecs. You install Totem-xine. YOU install mplayer and the Mozilla pluggin that gets it to play movies inside the browser like people are used to. YOU go down the Ubuntu guide and mount their NTFS drive and get them all the software they need at first. If YOU know they would hate how it boots, install splashy. If they have some hardware that needs some command line work (ndiswrapper), YOU do it.

Could someone please explain some of that stuff to me? As in, what's Totem-xine, what's mplayer and the Mozilla plugin, and what's splashy? I'm going to do a dual boot soon and would like to know what I should be doing to get the best experience as one of those Windows users who Poofyhairguy said should not be converted.

drakshug
May 8th, 2009, 11:13 PM
Shouldn't this 'how to' be entitled:

How To: Convert Windows Users to Linux

What's next, a guide on how to convert other distro users to Ubuntu?

Arup
May 9th, 2009, 02:49 AM
One of the biggest issues in converting Win users to Ubuntu is the heavy use of GUI. So I always install nautilus-gksu which helps them copy, paste and move stuff in GUI like in Win but of course with a warning. Opening any folder and tampering with critical files will result in a fudged system. Most Windows users when considering move to Ubuntu or other Linux are always worried about the point that you have to use terminal for everything and linux commands are tough. Also simple issues like installing drivers etc. have to be displayed to them otherwise most would run back to Windows.

Wookiee
May 9th, 2009, 06:36 AM
You could say I'm the moderately-proficient-but-not-expert user type, but I'd say I'm slowly getting the hang of things.

Maybe it's because I knew from the onset I'd have to swallow my pride and take baby steps and unlearn many Windows habits.

heroidi
May 15th, 2009, 06:11 AM
I'm working on a project in witch I'll tell them what is open source and I'll tell the people in Kosova the sad truth about they're Illegal copys of windows all use them because they don't still know that windows wants money Kosova is filled with illegal software and it looks like normal until the moment that windows will do the same what it did to China, Shut Down illegal software and people will change they're OS but I'm trying to tell them before this happens, it's true I've converted many people to Ubuntu users and I've installed it on my resturant computer so the costumers see it and say you'r system looks a little different, I've installed a lot of eye-candy but that computer has a small graphic card so compiz does not work on it if i had compiz installed on it like in my personal computer people would be amazed, my father he never liked windows because he never used it one day he asked me teach me how to use computer basiclly like reading the mail and getting on msn so... I showed him Ubuntu and he liked it because he never could understand windows and Ubuntu is so easy reachable he just likes the interface, my brother quit playing counter strike for Ubuntu now the only reason to get back on windows for me is printing, and my stepmother never complained about Ubuntu she likes it just the way it is, she uses windows on her work, she is a nurse and has to write things on the database about the clients because she works in a private ordinance but she also works on the hospital, now as I'm working for that project we have a meetup this saturday the FLOSS Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova, i've made a little money from the tips as i work as a waiter and bought some CD's so I'll burn Ubuntu on them and give them to people for free and tell them Try This It's Free As Kosova.
I Just am Happy With Ubuntu and will never get back to windows because it's a nightmare, for converting people you have to do it soufly and show them all the features of Ubuntu from the eye-candy to the flexibility...


Sincerly Heroid.

majamba
May 15th, 2009, 06:15 AM
well that's easy
first make sure it takes to long to load and it uses a lot of resources
second include a new program call security managament that asks you to cancel or allow anything you do such when you are on login screen it asks are you sure you want to login
or cancel or allow send mail , get mail, typing the url in the browser
cancel or allow turn off,stand by, shutdown, restart

cancel or allow command

got to include vista's sound

Harpie Queen
May 23rd, 2009, 04:55 AM
I've actually had a moderately experienced windows user approach me about switching to ubuntu. I'm gonna lend him a disk so he can boot off it. He'll want to play games, so I might suggest dual boot if wine doesn't work as well as I hope it will, and tell him in advance that I can make no guarantees.

AliTabuger7
September 2nd, 2009, 04:40 PM
Great guide, poofyhairguy!

Would you want to help write the "make materials" how-to section on spreadubuntu?
http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/en/make-materials

I notice a lot of these problems with the marketing materials we have already in the repository. The best ones address these problems.


On that note, what happened to http://spreadubuntu.org? Mozilla's Spread Firefox campaign did wonders for its browser share...

http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/
Canonical is working on getting us the domain...

ratedrampage
October 23rd, 2009, 09:32 PM
Hello everyone. My first post ever here. I've been using Ubuntu for 1.5 weeks now. I've tried both ubuntu and kubuntu 9.04 and tried the karmic only to fail and mess everything up...
After setting up everything the way i liked (studio theme, compiz, playonlinux because i like office, etc.) i set out to convince my best friend to install ubuntu. I failed. He, like me also uses Windows 7, which is not bad at all. I am currently starting to study linux at school and they use "Caixa Magica", a portuguese version of linux, much like kubuntu (uses KDE).
SO..
I believe i will be able to convince him now. If not, i can just shopw off my eye-candy and make everyone look at my laptop ^^.

Thanks for the very useful "tutorial".

RatedRampage, out.

shababhsiddique
January 11th, 2010, 02:28 PM
wow... this is awesome...

poofhairguy.. i m starting today a new project with the following theme "Ubuntu for windows users", i still dont know a name for it but the main idea is to help windows users to become a ubuntu user and make ubuntu their primary os or who knows.. unistall windows from their computers.


If possible i would like to get some ideas from you.. and this howto and that "trolls" post might be a very good start for the project.

What i have in mind so far is:

A simple website where users can post and discuss guides, i want to keep it simple for anyone to be able to make guides, but i want to make a team to help me organize, filter and correct the guides, to maintain a certain quality.

But the diference about this guides from the other guides out there.. is that they are meaning to guide a windows users that dont have any linux experience, helping them find the applications that they need or see if windows are gonna fit their needs or their company's needs.

And i m thinking about making a very extensive hardware guide explaining what they have to buy if they want to try linux out without any pain.

Cause a lot of people give up linux because of hardware compatibilities.. if they know what to buy before installing linux, this isnt going to be a problem anymore.

I have some more things in mind.. the website itself isnt a problem i just have to sit in front of my gedit for a couple of hours.. but i want to make a scratch first so i dont have to stay changing the database. :p

What do you think about the idea?

well I donot have even minimum skills or strength, still I wish I could join you. were should I start?

I am from Bangladesh I am trying to work around here to impress people towards Ubuntu. Maybe joining would benefit me towards my objective.

starcannon
January 11th, 2010, 10:47 PM
Raise the price of virus removal to a cost prohibitive level. Offer to give them a more secure operating system install for half the price of virus removal.

Techsnap
January 12th, 2010, 10:25 AM
Simple, don't do it.

Zoot7
January 12th, 2010, 10:41 AM
A housemate of mine has got a virus 3 times in each case necessitating a re-install of XP on my part in the last two months. This is after showing him how to run Windows update, keep his Anti-Virus up to date and how to use some Anti-Spyware aswell. I don't know what he's doing to get these. :rolleyes:

Whilst I'd love to point him in the direction of some flavour of Linux, and most of the problems re viruses would largely go away. But then I think of the issues I've had myself with most Linux distros. One example - the College Wireless is a WPA2 Enterprise network restricted by a HTTP Proxy, and I've yet to find a distro where WPA2 Enterprise works flawlessly, it'll either not work at all or be very patchy, and this is with some very "Linux Friendly" cards.
I'd end up most likely playing Tech support on a new level for a few days, then I'd end up installing Windows again for him.
Instead, I told him seriously consider a Mac the next time he's shopping for a new Laptop.

hoppipolla
January 12th, 2010, 11:04 AM
I've actually had a moderately experienced windows user approach me about switching to ubuntu. I'm gonna lend him a disk so he can boot off it. He'll want to play games, so I might suggest dual boot if wine doesn't work as well as I hope it will, and tell him in advance that I can make no guarantees.
I think that if he can afford the cash, Cedega will give him a much better gaming experience than Wine! Most likely anyway :)

ndefontenay
January 12th, 2010, 11:08 AM
I'm a DBA. Not sys admin mind you. But that's enough to be the go to guy around to "fix" things when they happened on windows.

The only problem is: I switched to Linux to avoid those problems.

And this is what I tell them. This is the people fitting in category 1). They struggle on a daily basis with popups because they spend lots of time on the internet. They got an expired anti virus because it was a default install and have no idea about free anti viruses.

To those people I usually say: Sorry. I've switched to Linux a long time ago to avoid all those troubles. I would offer my support only if you agree to switch to linux yourself.

It can take a couple of times. But usually they do the jump. Most people around me has done the jump already.

It works quite well.

otherwise, it's worth mentioning anyway. Without great hopes. But at least putting it out there makes it more visible.

What ubuntu needs the most is media attention.

mamamia88
January 13th, 2010, 02:12 AM
A housemate of mine has got a virus 3 times in each case necessitating a re-install of XP on my part in the last two months. This is after showing him how to run Windows update, keep his Anti-Virus up to date and how to use some Anti-Spyware aswell. I don't know what he's doing to get these. :rolleyes:

Whilst I'd love to point him in the direction of some flavour of Linux, and most of the problems re viruses would largely go away. But then I think of the issues I've had myself with most Linux distros. One example - the College Wireless is a WPA2 Enterprise network restricted by a HTTP Proxy, and I've yet to find a distro where WPA2 Enterprise works flawlessly, it'll either not work at all or be very patchy, and this is with some very "Linux Friendly" cards.
I'd end up most likely playing Tech support on a new level for a few days, then I'd end up installing Windows again for him.
Instead, I told him seriously consider a Mac the next time he's shopping for a new Laptop.

he's probably downloading something he shouldn't

Zoot7
January 13th, 2010, 10:06 AM
he's probably downloading something he shouldn't
Methinks it's his persistency to use Internet Explorer and then to frequent pr0n sites.:rolleyes:

mamamia88
January 13th, 2010, 03:46 PM
Methinks it's his persistency to use Internet Explorer and then to frequent pr0n sites.:rolleyes:

me thinks ye should install him a vm for all his pr0n. might save you some hassle

Zoot7
January 13th, 2010, 08:46 PM
me thinks ye should install him a vm for all his pr0n. might save you some hassle
Methinks you be right. :)

MasterNetra
January 13th, 2010, 09:29 PM
A housemate of mine has got a virus 3 times in each case necessitating a re-install of XP on my part in the last two months. This is after showing him how to run Windows update, keep his Anti-Virus up to date and how to use some Anti-Spyware aswell. I don't know what he's doing to get these. :rolleyes:

Whilst I'd love to point him in the direction of some flavour of Linux, and most of the problems re viruses would largely go away. But then I think of the issues I've had myself with most Linux distros. One example - the College Wireless is a WPA2 Enterprise network restricted by a HTTP Proxy, and I've yet to find a distro where WPA2 Enterprise works flawlessly, it'll either not work at all or be very patchy, and this is with some very "Linux Friendly" cards.
I'd end up most likely playing Tech support on a new level for a few days, then I'd end up installing Windows again for him.
Instead, I told him seriously consider a Mac the next time he's shopping for a new Laptop.

My college that I went to uses WPA2 Enterprise, had no trouble with it using Ubuntu. O.o Must be one of the many "your results may vary" scenarios.

BlindTortoise
October 3rd, 2010, 01:53 PM
OK, I have read the "How to convert someone to Ubuntu"
Now I am REALLY scared.
Here is my problem:
I am a Category A user with a Bigtime messed up Thinkvantage X61s laptop.
I hate the fact that I never seem able to keep up with viruses, spyware etc.
I had to fork out tons of money on keeping my software up to date and then I immediately forgot all the registration details for the software.
Now I want to start all over.
I want to save some of my old office and music files.
Then I want to reformat my harddrive and have a clean start. (At least I know about re-formatting)
Since I have lost all the keys to my expensive old programs, and I don't want to fork out money for Windows 7, is there someone out there that can hold my hand, or even better, do it for me?

nlsthzn
October 3rd, 2010, 02:00 PM
OK, I have read the "How to convert someone to Ubuntu"
Now I am REALLY scared.
Here is my problem:
I am a Category A user with a Bigtime messed up Thinkvantage X61s laptop.
I hate the fact that I never seem able to keep up with viruses, spyware etc.
I had to fork out tons of money on keeping my software up to date and then I immediately forgot all the registration details for the software.
Now I want to start all over.
I want to save some of my old office and music files.
Then I want to reformat my harddrive and have a clean start. (At least I know about re-formatting)
Since I have lost all the keys to my expensive old programs, and I don't want to fork out money for Windows 7, is there someone out there that can hold my hand, or even better, do it for me?

Take a deep breath and relax... you are among friends...

First thing I would suggest is that this specific thread is NOT the best place for you to find assisstance (it will be off-topic)...

You should be prepared to do some reading and some learning and you will be fine...

I would suggest reading a bit more here (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation) then getting your hands on a copy of Ubuntu (a good place to start would be Ubuntu 10.04 32-bit edition (http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download) and boot up into the Live session (choose to "Try" it as opposed to installing and play around a bit, see if your hard ware works etc.)

Then start posting threads in relevant sections if you were unable to find the answers by searching the forums (and the web in general)... Good luck and welcome :D

jmedaille
May 22nd, 2011, 05:57 AM
Does anybody know of a place to find a consultant to help with the conversion? This system seems to work on command line prompts in a foreign language.

PhillyPhil
May 22nd, 2011, 11:13 AM
My college that I went to uses WPA2 Enterprise, had no trouble with it using Ubuntu. O.o Must be one of the many ''your results may vary'' scenarios.

My university uses WPA2 Enterprise too: my Ubuntu netbook connects perfectly fine, never had the slightest issue.

Copper Bezel
May 22nd, 2011, 04:39 PM
It used to be a real weakness, and it's been steadily getting better. (I guess this isn't necromancy when the thread started in 2005.) I had a machine that started working with WPA2 in 9.10, and the new machine I got at the same time never had any problems. Common Atheros chipsets in both cases.

1991sudarshan
May 22nd, 2011, 06:16 PM
Finally I was able to convert my friend who hard core Windows user to an Ubuntu users! Most of my friends are complaining that Ubuntu does not support Windows PC games! and Linux is hard to use!

geidorei
May 22nd, 2011, 11:08 PM
Well, I'm a convert - been using Ubuntu for about 2 months now, nearly sacked it off though but didnt thank gawd! lol

If a user is fairly competent with PC's then yes, its a good idea. faster, cheaper and more fun! If they are a home user who just surfs, reads email etc prob not cos if something goes wrong they will be in trouble... command line, explanations by users on the forums that make no sense, idiotic replies, people who think they know what they are doing and obviously dont, and talking to you like yur just a worm. Sometimes, I just want to shout JUST ANSWER THE BLOODY QUESTION! Instead some users ask, whats this set as, whats that set as... argh! If they new what they were doing and read the question, sometimes the questions they ask are just irrelevant - do they do this just to annoy and confuse??

One major drawback of Linux, no matter what flavour is the lack of business software. Ill never be able to get rid of Windows directly as I use Actinic catalog (more in a mo) and cutting software for vinyl. Plus email marketing software (none on Linux at all), and some useful utils for creating buttons, images for the web etc. Yes I can create using gimp, but I can create a button in seconds using the windows progs.

Back to ecommerce: I use Actinic, off the shelf ecommerce solution. I have one site using Zen Cart, but that's as far as it will go. It's a great solution, and free, but is extremely hard work to produce a site especially when you want to mod as you have to keep editing files. And if you want to add an additional link OMG! 12 files to edit plus the SQL. Its historical I know, but compared with newer solutions, albeit all windows based, Zen Cart, Oscommerce etc are a very poor solution to getting a ecommerce site up and running.

I read this somewhere online: Actinic, one days training, next day site up with 100 products. Oscommerce, one weeks training, couple of weeks later and you may be selling. Again, its not that Zen Cart and Oscommerce are no good, they are excellent tools, its just that they are a configuration nightmare compared with the solutions available on Windows, such as Actinic. Downside: Actinic costs about 400 quid, oscommerce is free.

Right Ive had my rant! lol

Copper Bezel
May 23rd, 2011, 09:57 AM
If they are a home user who just surfs, reads email etc prob not cos if something goes wrong they will be in trouble... command line, explanations by users on the forums that make no sense, idiotic replies, people who think they know what they are doing and obviously dont, and talking to you like yur just a worm. Sometimes, I just want to shout JUST ANSWER THE BLOODY QUESTION! Instead some users ask, whats this set as, whats that set as... argh! If they new what they were doing and read the question, sometimes the questions they ask are just irrelevant - do they do this just to annoy and confuse??

Service isn't uniform in quality, no. UF's is better than what I've seen for Windows or most other Linux distros, however, and slightly less insulting, although there are still occasions where I've seen support folks come across as rather adversarial, questioning the user's logic, etc. When we ask about specific settings, however, we really do generally need to know. = )

sunewbie
August 3rd, 2011, 09:21 AM
Conversion is a slow process. First home users who do not use PC for professional use should be converted.

In brief:

1. Try programs common to both OS (inkscape, Libre Office, Thunderbird, etc.)
2. LIVE CD
3. Inside XP / Virtual box in XP as main OS / or dual Boot
4. Set XP as default OS to load in case of dual boot.
5. Install XP inside Virtual box.
6. Install only LTS versions.

Only problem with Ubuntu is very fast release cycle. I was not comfortable with Ubuntu and a new version is released. PPA's are different for different versions. So I prefer to Stick with LTS versions as they are focused more on stability than on features. So I have skipped Meverick and Netty. I was just getting comfortable with Gnome and there was Unity. I think it will be sorted out in 12.04 LTS.

I also upgrade after 6 months when the first patch is released i.e. 12.04.1 LTS. All the driver issues, minor bugs and software ppa's are fixed / updated. I prefer to be safe. Let the more technical freeks and programmers evaluate and give their expert comment. I just wait a little while and do not pounce for upgrade. After all 10.04 LTS is running well. We used XP for a decade :D

Benefits of Ubuntu:

1. Free with updates
2. Virus free - Almost
3. Faster internet. (personal observation, maybe since no Anti virus is installed)
4. Lots of softwares
5. Ubuntu Software Center - since new user does not know the names of software alternatives - this is of great help and very convenient)
6. Rock Solid Stability and nearly zero OS crashes.
7. No OS bloating - slowing down of OS.
8. Strong community
9. Smooth upgrades
10. Be mentally free from the burden of piracy. Experience freedom.
11. PPA's - Softwares automatically upgrade to latest version.
12. More choices with GUI – Gnome / KDE (and now Unity).
Use both Gnome and KDE as per mood and need. Gnome loads faster. So just to surf net or check mails Gnome is better. It is more simple. One the other hand KDE 4.5 has great interface.

Softwares needed for day to day work are available

1. Browser:

a. Firefox - default
b. Chrome / Cromium
c. Opera (Opera works faster in Ubuntu than in windows. It has excellent support for Linux. Most smart phones use Opera Mini, So You can sync bookmarks.

2. Music player:

a. Rhythmbox - default in 10.04 LTS
b. Clementine
c. Amarok (for KDE)
d. Jet audio for audio through Wine. Video dos not work
e. Banshee
f. VLC

3. Office Suit - Micro$oft alternative

a. Libre Office
Can replace MS Office

4. Chatting and email client

a. Emphathy - chat - multi acc
b. Pidgin - chat - multi acc
c. Evolution - Mail Client
d. Thunderbird - Mail client

5. Photo viewer / editor

a. Shotwell
b. Fspot
c. GIMP - editing - may / may not be required

6. DVD burner

a. K3b - for both Gnome an KDE
b. Nero Linux 4 (proprietary, paid)

7. DVD authoring tools

a. DVD styler
b. DeVeDe
c. Bombono


8. Vector Graphic editor - optional

a. Inkscape - Corel draw and illustrator alternative
b. Sk1

9. Blogging Tools

a. Scribe
(some more available)

10. Miscellaneous

a. Wine - run windows programs in ubuntu
b. PlayonLinux - integrates with wine
c. Add medibuntu repos
d. Getdeb

* basic PDF viewer is installed by default. PDF editing, PDF printers are available

Limitations / Differences of Ubuntu

a. No suitable alternatives for proprietary softwares like photosop, Corel draw, Adobe illustrator, windows Live Writer

b. No professional accounting software and support for India

c. To copy into usb pen drive, one needs to open nautilus as root (sudo). Eventhough this is not a limitation, but a security feature, most new users think this as uncomfortable

d. New terminology - sometimes frustrating - not a limitation, but a natural thing. Linux is not windows. It is altogether a new OS, built in a different way.

e. Broad band connection necessary and some computer knowledge needed to search with proper keywords, find and apply solutions

d. some hardware do not work properly as drivers are not available or hacked properly

e. wireless network may not connect properly including broadband

----

In India, Accounts softwares are not freely available for linux. Tally (very popular in small and micro business.) and Custom accounting programs mostly use VB.net or oracle as front hand. Programmers and training institutions do not train much for python and vala and other similar softwares.

sunewbie
August 3rd, 2011, 11:48 AM
In my recent reply, I have talked about choices of GUIs, GNOME and KDE.

If you install both GNOME and KDE,you will have applications which run in both GUI since both GUIs are installed.

So some features, which are only found in KDE (and are very good) can also be found in GNOME, and they work too). Sometimes they can be repetitions of same application like settings, which have different interface in KDE and GNOME.

So installing both GUI can be a convenience to some and too much interference and irritation to others.

Still it is fun.

PhillyPhil
August 6th, 2011, 07:46 AM
Limitations / Differences of Ubuntu

a. No suitable alternatives for proprietary softwares like photosop, Corel draw, Adobe illustrator, windows Live Writer

b. No professional accounting software and support for India

c. To copy into usb pen drive, one needs to open nautilus as root (sudo). Eventhough this is not a limitation, but a security feature, most new users think this as uncomfortable

d. New terminology - sometimes frustrating - not a limitation, but a natural thing. Linux is not windows. It is altogether a new OS, built in a different way.

e. Broad band connection necessary and some computer knowledge needed to search with proper keywords, find and apply solutions

d. some hardware do not work properly as drivers are not available or hacked properly

e. wireless network may not connect properly including broadband


I don't understand (c). I don't have to do anything to copy to a flash drive except plug it in.

(e) is already covered by (d).

sunewbie
August 6th, 2011, 12:41 PM
I don't understand (c). I don't have to do anything to copy to a flash drive except plug it in.

(e) is already covered by (d).

Thank you for corrections. :)

As my name suggests, I am not a pro. Just an end user who likes to experiment a bit. I just put my thoughts about Ubuntu.

Regarding Flash drive. I cannot write to USB pen drive, just like in windows. I need to log in as a root or use sudo and open nautilus


gksudo nautilus media/usb0

then i can copy or write files from hard disk to usb.

If you know any way where i do not need to open usb drive through gksudo, please let me know.

I will try once again to check if simple copy pasting works or not.

I thought, it should be a summary of most of the comments.

If somebody can compile my views or add /edit in a better way, kindly do so, so that people do not have to browse pages.

Thanks.

FlameReaper
August 6th, 2011, 01:49 PM
... Make it look like Windows. Next, make everything that works in Windows work in it... Without WINE or any software environment emulators. Next make DirectX run in it. Next... make it run today's most demanding PC games with ease... On full settings.

Or just port everything to Linux.

PhillyPhil
August 6th, 2011, 02:14 PM
Thank you for corrections. :)

As my name suggests, I am not a pro. Just an end user who likes to experiment a bit. I just put my thoughts about Ubuntu.

Regarding Flash drive. I cannot write to USB pen drive, just like in windows. I need to log in as a root or use sudo and open nautilus


gksudo nautilus media/usb0

then i can copy or write files from hard disk to usb.

If you know any way where i do not need to open usb drive through gksudo, please let me know.

...
Sorry, I don't know. I've installed quite a few versions of Ubuntu on quite a few computers and never had your problem.
Perhaps you should ask for help in the help sections?

oldsoundguy
August 7th, 2011, 12:37 AM
never had a flash drive copy issue in Linux (because I formated the drive for Linux FIRST .. in most cases you can not take an off the shelf drive, plug it into a Linux USB, and expect it to work without formatting to the Linux file system you are using.)

THE SAME can be said for Windows .. I am almost certain you formatted the drive for Windows before you attempted to copy to it!

That is why I have several flash drives .. a couple formatted for Windows and a couple formatted for Linux.

(formatting will remove the chance of any nasty little program from China that may have been hidden on that NEW drive, BTW)

m666
August 7th, 2011, 03:22 AM
If you want to convert windows users to LINUX, install on their computers Mandriva or Mageia.
Ubuntu is full of bugs, difficult to configure and leads to frustration. I've been using it since 2004 so I know a bit about it.

sunewbie
August 18th, 2011, 06:30 PM
Sorry, I don't know. I've installed quite a few versions of Ubuntu on quite a few computers and never had your problem.
Perhaps you should ask for help in the help sections?

Finally i found a solution

Just remove 'usbmount' from synaptic and things will work fine, instantly.

source

http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1448092.html

(see last comment)

oldsoundguy
August 19th, 2011, 12:15 AM
If you want to convert windows users to LINUX, install on their computers Mandriva or Mageia.
Ubuntu is full of bugs, difficult to configure and leads to frustration. I've been using it since 2004 so I know a bit about it.

Been using Ubuntu since 6.04 on desketops with little or no issues. HOWEVER, reads here say that CrapTops are a CrapShoot. Great beginners system is Linux Mint .. and it is based on Ubuntu.

TheGuyWithTheFace
April 12th, 2012, 11:51 PM
I literally installed Ubuntu last week, and already I'm ready to brag about my new OS! :D What really sold me was being told I could try it out on the live CD with no real changes. I wonder if there's a limit to the number of live CDs I can download and give to my friends...

craig10x
April 13th, 2012, 03:21 AM
I literally installed Ubuntu last week, and already I'm ready to brag about my new OS! :D What really sold me was being told I could try it out on the live CD with no real changes. I wonder if there's a limit to the number of live CDs I can download and give to my friends...

No..you are free to download as many as you like :grin:
And welcome to linux and ubuntu...

souravc83
April 13th, 2012, 06:02 AM
I have been using Ubuntu for about a couple of months now. I have tried using linux occasionally since about ten years ago. When I had installed Fedora at that time, I had found lots of driver issues. My sound did not work well etc. Then I had tried Mandriva about four five years back I think. I had flash issues. Flash wasn't working properly and gave up.

Things have improved quite a lot in the linux world since then. Ubuntu is extremely user friendly, and one can navigate in linux as easily with a mouse, as he/she can in a Windows or a Mac machine.
I am happy with linux for:

1) Fast startup and shutdown. much faster than my slow windows OS.
2) Lack of viruses.My old Windows installation became corrupted with some malware occassionally, and it was so frustrating to find it
3) Speed. My same computer runs like a leopard, when it crawled like an earthworm in Vista. With antivirus programs, and the Windows Xterm (whatever it was called) taking up so much CPU and memory, fast machines are no longer fast.
4) Space. Windows grows with time, and takes up so much space on my hard drive with so much stupid inane stuff, some hidden folder, some history thing, and it is a pain to find out what is going on.

5)Visually Appealing. Yes, linux was once the boring looking OS. Not anymore. Vista and Windows 7 aren't the most visually pleasing and charming interfaces. Unity isn't too. I am not a big fan of Unity. But Gnome 3 does it for me. Totally cool. So simple, and yet so visually pleasing.


6) Finally, the pure and unadulterated joy of learning how to tinker with the computer. :)
Yes, that's the best part for me.

Now the bad part.
1)Office doesn't work as well. Libreoffice is not so compatible with MS Office. I can live just by using LaTeX, but others in my office use MS Office. So, to collaborate with them, I need to use the .doc and .docx files. I am working with Wine, but office with wine is really buggy.Sometimes it will stop responding. Linux seriously needs to step up support for MS office. Its a bottleneck for a lot of people.

2) Netflix. I cannot, repeat, cannot watch Netflix. I know linux cannot do anything about this. This is Netflix's stupidity. But in the end, it becomes a factor. I have weighed it in, and decided that I am going to have to live without it, until I buy an Ipad.

sunewbie
April 13th, 2012, 06:41 AM
@TheGuyWithTheFace

There is no limit to download and to copy / modify and distribute Ubuntu or any other Linux distro (unless the developer specifies, which is a rare case.)

Welcome to the forums :)

@souravc83

Try to install it on playonlinux. the problem with MS is the .net framework needed. Linux does not have VB. It has mono. So all the problems. It's not the fault of Linux, but the dictatorship of M$ Windoz and Bill Gates. Why there is no Linux version of any of windoz products. Not even for a browser (I do not use IE). I love Windows Live writer and cannot find any substitute. Blogilo is closest, but it has issues with blogger blogs. I does not have labels.

So the solution is to install XP in virtualbox and then turn off security updates hen install anything you want. including coreldraw, Live writer or MS office. It will work like a charm. You disable internet, so you do not need to worry about virus and anti virus. XP will run fast in absence of AV

njoy Linux :)

tuxmarc
April 13th, 2012, 05:50 PM
Hi !
The best opportunity to convince people to switch to Ubuntu is when you receive this kind of terrific message :
A new powerful and dreadful virus is striking, Norton Mac Afee, Micro$oft and so on are really desperate, there is nothing to do :frown::frown: ! if you receive a message from ........ do not click !!! Otherwise your hard disk will explode !!
Immediate reaction, a message to everyone : i could not care less about viruses :p
I can click on this stupid link hundreds times, this ridiculous .exe will stay at the door.
My secret ? Simply Ubuntu, free and far better than the crap you have to try to make your computer work.
It works :lolflag:
Marc

sunewbie
April 13th, 2012, 06:12 PM
Virus is not the only thing that is 'Advantage Linux' :)

there are many other advantages like FOSS, Software Center, etc

I commented at Which Web Browser Is the Most Secure? (http://blog.zonealarm.com/2012/02/which-web-browser-is-the-most-secure.html) as White Lotus.

Here is a copy:

------

No OS is bullet proof. Linux by design is more secure because of following reasons:

1) Open source. In open source software, you can view, modify, do bug testing, as source code is available. This is good for developers. Most popular Linux distros have their own software repos. distro developer generally takes care when adding anything under repos. No developer want ot make his/her distro unstable and full of virus / trojan.

2). Open source community: Advanced users take active part in bug testing of alpha / beta / RC builds and submit bug report and / or patches. So incase bugs are found, they are fixed fast.

3) Use of Different file system:

Linux uses EXT 3 / EXT4 filesystem. Unlike NTFS, it does not slow down with time as data is stored as near to each other as possible. So no need to defragment. This is the reason they 70 %servers are Linux based. Even companied like Google, Yahoo, Amazon use Linux servers. They work with same efficiency even if server is not shut down for years.

4) No registry and no GUI integration in kernel
Linux by design does not have a registry. So if any program crashes, no need to reboot Linux. Each program / app is stored in separate file.

Unlike windows, GUI – Graphical User Interface is not integrated into kernel. So, unlike windows, if GUI crashes, Linux does not crash. Just restart GUI called as DE (Desktop environment) or login / log out.

5) CLI: If anything happens to GUI, still you can work with CLI to fix the problem.

6) no login by root / admin: Linux by default does not login as root. So you cannot delete anything that makes system unstable without signing as root, by opening terminal (CLI) and entering as root)

7) secure by design: If I am not wrong, Linux by default blocks anonymous inbound connections. If you want to install any app, you have to manually enter password. So nothing gets installed automatically.

Integrated updates from Update Manager: Along with security updates, updats of software takes place centrally e.g. updating of FF, Opera, Chromium, LibreOffice or any other app. This is done by adding PPA in software sources. These sources are safe to use and so no need to go to software website and download manually. This helps reduce any malicious code that may trigger by clicking on hacked links.

Regarding browser exploitation, if FF or chromium is hacked, then it will be hacked in both Windows and Linux. But most viruses are designed to affect windows, so even if a virus manages to enter via browser or flash or pdf, still it wont affect any native linux programs.

e.g. Ubuntu Linux Mint / Debian uses .DEB file format , Fedora users RPM file format and window uses .EXE. So any virus affecting .exe file will not harm .deb / .rmp files.


----

also find my earlier reply on this thread

http://blog.zonealarm.com/2012/02/which-web-browser-is-the-most-secure.html

Cheers

tuxmarc
April 15th, 2012, 04:51 PM
Hello Sunewbie.

Of course I know all these advantages and include some of them in my message, but not too much, overwise eveybody will be scared by the complexity and run away.
"I knew it is very complicated, you have to be Richard Stallman (or a bearded guru with long hair) to understand" :P:P
Most people I have convinced to switch to Linux first heard a magic word "no virus".
Later when the installation is running, I can explain all the other extra advantages.
I am a member of a LUG in France; and I have noticed that when we talk about stability they don't understand, but talking viruses is the magic word.
Cheers !

Peripheral Visionary
April 15th, 2012, 05:02 PM
I don't even try to "convert" anyone to Linux. They generally convert by themselves when they begin to search for alternatives, and that's only when Windows fails them badly enough and often enough (which is rare, frankly, in the late editions of Windows).

I started looking at Mac when Windows became slower and slower and less responsive. I was put off by the price, though all my Mac friends absolutely love their Macs and wouldn't change a thing - except the price, of course.

I just Googled "Windows, Mac, other?" and found the "other" that certainly has the right price tag and would probably work on my old computer. Asked my friend who ran Linux about it and boom, off to the races.

I inherited my friend's very old Dell with Xubuntu on it and it runs better than my newer box ran with WinXP when it was new! Now I'm a very enthusiastic Xubu fan, but people don't change unless they have a need and/or desire to change. I just want to be there for them, like my friend was for me, when my friends are looking at alternatives.

Elfy
April 15th, 2012, 05:05 PM
back to sleep with this I think.