Don't forget that this is an LTS release

[houstonbofh]

While we are dreaming of cool new toys to add, remember that this is an LTS release. It is less about new stuff and more about stable. Compiz still has major bugs. New versions of Ubuntu all use more power than ever before. There are tones of old bugs from 2 years ago that are still unfixed. We should set the feature bar very low, and focus on polish and stability. Yes, some new stuff, but no big new changes.

[sx66gns]

aye , on three of the installations I've performed since yesterday , I've had to drop to console and manually configure xserver-xorg , so from the looks of it it's going to be ruff for a noob (not saying I'm not btw).

[Papi-KB7VGW]

As a recent convert to Feisty, I have decided decided that I will only upgrade to LTS versions only. It is my understanding that LTS is the most stable version available. If that is true then developers should make it a bomb proof as possible instead of bleeding edge. IMHO we should be pushing the LTS version to new users for a trauma free installation. just my .02 :)

[Overbyte]

LTS should be changed to Long Term Stability :lolflag:

If it ain't as solid as a rock, I won't get it.

Stability not just as in how long it will be up before it randomly crashes, but will stand up to whatever you throw at it. Anyone who has fumbled with xserver-xorg or used dpkg --reconfigure know what I mean ;)

[Luffield]

houstonbofh, I agree with you completely.

[kripkenstein]

Perhaps LTS versions should be defined as mainly stability/bugfixing releases. I mean, the new GNOME / Linux kernel / etc. should be integrated, but no work on changing major components or adding significant new functionality. There are plenty of open issues with the existing code that should be fixed.

[dietrying]

completely agreed!
There is even enough new stuff in gutsy.
Now it's more important to get this bullet proof. Especially the screen configuration tool and compiz should get bug fixed for the heron

[Zdravko]

As a recent convert to Feisty, I have decided decided that I will only upgrade to LTS versions only. It is my understanding that LTS is the most stable version available. If that is true then developers should make it a bomb proof as possible instead of bleeding edge. IMHO we should be pushing the LTS version to new users for a trauma free installation. just my .02 :)

Excellent! The same here! Viva la LTS!

[monoufo]

Ubuntu is still missing something critical that must make it into the LTS. if you want new users using the LTS, it should have every important feature. i am talking about integrated, on the regular install CD, fake raid support. not only regular fake raid support, but fake raid5. most people buy laptops these days, so those with desktops bought them for a reason, like raid5.

[Auria]

Totally agreed.

Time to go bug-fixing!

I've seen a few guys try ubuntu on their computer and then remove it because it was too unstable... for wide acceptance i think you can't dismiss stabilty

[autocrosser]

Yes--realize that the cycle is:

Experimental release--lots of new stuff--buggy--was going to be Edgy (why do you think it was called "Edgy"?)-- but the cycle was too short.

Collect & Combine release--follow up on the gains made in the experimental release--partly made in Feisty--Feisty ended up into new stuff.

Clean up & finalize code release--Gutsy has made strides in this, but we are still slightly behind the curve.

Next LTS--Final code clean up & slick up for a three-year release. Well--this is where we are right now, so let's all dig in & make it a real good one!!!!

[FuturePilot]

Yes, I totally agree. We need to focus more on fixing bugs than adding more stuff/flashy effects. I'm mean the desktop effects are really nice and all but I think there was too much focus on that in Gutsy.

[ronacc]

although both fiesty and gutsy have been pretty bug free for me I see enough recurring pleas for help with bugs ,that a release cycle to let the devs catchup is in order. so yes, minimal "new" and lots of polish and bug fixes.
and BTW the disaster that was edgy drove me away from Ubuntu for 6 mos.

[smartboyathome]

although both fiesty and gutsy have been pretty bug free for me I see enough recurring pleas for help with bugs ,that a release cycle to let the devs catchup is in order. so yes, minimal "new" and lots of polish and bug fixes.
and BTW the disaster that was edgy drove me away from Ubuntu for 6 mos.

I am lucky I was one of the ones that used dapper instead of Edgy when I first started Ubuntu. :razz:

But anyway, I agree with all of you, if there was ever a time for bug fixing, it would be now. But I also think that the touchpad support in the mouse configuration and the screen configuration manager need to be improved a bit.

[Engnome]

They should throw in a couple of months delay, worked great last time ; )

*Runs and hides*

[autocrosser]

They should throw in a couple of months delay, worked great last time ; )

*Runs and hides*

That is the reason we are in the mess we are right now---Dapper went two months over & the cycle is every six months--to stay in sync with Gnome releases. So, something had to change & that was the short cycle of Edgy (and we all know what a CF it was)----

If we just put our minds to the task we can get Hardy out in time---no real fun stuff this release---but there is Hardy+1 in six months to REALLY have fun with!!!

How about Iconic Ibex????

[Shay Stephens]

+10 on no new features and all effort to shore up ubuntu and bug fix and stabilize it. I tend to install the latest versions, but I install the LTS versions for friends and family. So it needs to be as solid as is possible. There are plenty of feature in gutsy now, so I hope they don't waste time by adding more into Hardy.

[houstonbofh]

I would love to limit my customers to LTS only. Ain't gonna happen. There is too much hardware that will not work with Dapper. So I run the off site production stuff on current - 4 months. For example, I got rid of the last Edgy boxes 2 months ago. Feisty will go in 4 months.

But for Hardy, stuff needs to be solid. Essentially it should be a patch rollup for Gutsy, and a rev of the software. That is it. At least that is my opinion if Marks every asks... :)

[Lozz]

They should throw in a couple of months delay, worked great last time ; )

*Runs and hides*

I guess that'd be alright if the next release was then given the usual six months development. The only problems are that the release numbers would keep shifting each time an LTS came out & we'd lose our current alignment with gnome releases.

[dckirba]

I am lucky I was one of the ones that used dapper instead of Edgy when I first started Ubuntu. :razz:


So was I and I really miss Dapper. Looking forward to next LTS.

[twistedbydesign]

I definitely agree that LTS should be focused more on stability.
I also think it would have been a good idea from the beginning for the developers to make it clear that LTS releases would be more than 6 months. I think its something they should consider working into. Yea it's going to be hard to wait for it. But if the extra time is used wisely then the quality of the final product will make everyone see that it was time well spent.

[Shay Stephens]

I definitely agree that LTS should be focused more on stability.
I also think it would have been a good idea from the beginning for the developers to make it clear that LTS releases would be more than 6 months. I think its something they should consider working into. Yea it's going to be hard to wait for it. But if the extra time is used wisely then the quality of the final product will make everyone see that it was time well spent.

But if they don't spend time deciding on what new features to implement and get right to bug fixing, they probably will have time to make it on schedule.

[Jimmy_r]

This has been my thoughts too.
Hardy should be more of a continuation of the Gutsy cycle, with new versions/syncs from Debian of course.

So far Gutsy has been working fine for me, Gutsy + 6 months of bugfixes would be great.
That would also be a good ground to stand on when all the new features in Hardy+1 starts wreaking havoc. :)

[houstonbofh]

But if they don't spend time deciding on what new features to implement and get right to bug fixing, they probably will have time to make it on schedule.
My thoughts exactly. Don't cut it completely, but cut it down a lot.

[Choad]

While we are dreaming of cool new toys to add, remember that this is an LTS release. It is less about new stuff and more about stable. Compiz still has major bugs. New versions of Ubuntu all use more power than ever before. There are tones of old bugs from 2 years ago that are still unfixed. We should set the feature bar very low, and focus on polish and stability. Yes, some new stuff, but no big new changes.
100% agree. if everything in gutsy was cleaned up and made as close to 100% reliable as is humanly possible, we would have a killer OS on our hands.

it is far, far, FAR from 100% reliable as it stands.

[Flyingjester]

i'm in agreement, LTS releases should be majorly focused on stabilty.

[tiachopvutru]

Well, the name should indicate that this release will be hard and stable, right? :)

[ronacc]

I am lucky I was one of the ones that used dapper instead of Edgy when I first started Ubuntu. :razz:

But anyway, I agree with all of you, if there was ever a time for bug fixing, it would be now. But I also think that the touchpad support in the mouse configuration and the screen configuration manager need to be improved a bit.

I have been playing with Ubuntu as a distro to recomend to my non geek friends since warty while using Suse as my main work system. Dapper was a good release and l use Fiesty as my main system now since Novell made a deal with the devil. If Ubuntu is truly to be a distro "for the masses" stability and a painless install process are target #1. We here are geeks and can handle small glitches , the average Joe or Jane just wants to read their email and surf the web and if greeted with a scrambled Xserver is not going to be amused.

[aamukahvi]

Check this out, they're moving package freezes to an earlier date to give more time to stabilize:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-October/024651.html

[yorkie]

Going by the response to this thread stability is more important than eye candy.
I totally agree and stability should be number one priority.
Hope the Developers read these threads and take note.
Gutsy Gibbon to me is the best so far.

[hardyn]

While i don't disagree that a LTS should concentrate on stability; i would not say that any of the releases since dapper were unstable. They might not be heavy iron stable, but certainly adequite for desktop use.

[bethaviv]

Ubuntu had its eye candy fun with Gutsy, focusing on stability and fixing those darn bugs should be a main concern now with LTS... and I'm sure the team knows this.

Arguing about fonts, icons, color schemes... while important, shouldn't be focused on for an LTS.. perfecting what they have should be the focus. Better functionality and organization.

We can always change how it looks ourselves, but what good does it do if it looks better for certain people, but doesn't work better?

One of the nice things about Ubuntu is you can change how you want it to look. Everyone has their own preference, and we're not going to magically agree on one particular theme anytime soon.

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Stability, smoothness and usability should be the three key factors here.
Usability meaning stuff like that stock Close button in gnome-app-install which should really be a Quit button, smoothness meaning more pleasant documentation. (Am I really the only one bothered by how the navigation for a section appears in two places at once?).

There are a few messes and a lot of FIXMEs hidden away in here, so a very focused effort going towards bug fixing not just for Ubuntu's stuff, but for everything that Ubuntu uses, will go a long way.

[leexgx]

usability i agree on as well as bugs as well (i missed this one >>LINK >> No internet removes All download repositories sources (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/154095) << link << that type of problem should not happen)

you realy need to push for GUI config programs (like whats in KDE) and X needs to have an Fail Fail Save Mode (i did repeat that) so X starts in safe mode when it crashes maybe 2 times in an row or on First time start, as not evey one knows how to make it start from console (including me), as at this time if x fails permenty its hard to make it load the basic driver, i never seen windows never work with video cards so the x basic driver should allso work as well all the time

network detection is not so good as it seems to give up after it fails to get an IP, allso some times internet does not work when it does have an ip (have to restart the pc then it works, last 2-3 vers of ubuntu have been problem with that)

an better help system more info on how to do things like shut the pc down install programs and other things, Ubuntu NEEDS to give propper names to programs that come in the default install, Kubuntu with KDE names each program with its simple name like photo editor and so on

[borahshadow]

+ 10 I think LTS releases should be stable as a rock and just work(no buggy drivers suspend for laptops) and a main focus on servers most server admins only upgrade to LTS and there should be no breakage (in theory) in feisty there was serious RAID problems (for me) nothing like this should happen

[mabovo]

I know there is the Dohikey project but should we considering to promote a hardware inventory of machines running Ubuntu systems and check their stability ?
For instance, my old Compaq deskpro don't even has acpi support due to an ancient bios from the past eighties decade although Gutsy is very stable on it !. Imagine if I have a quad core running virtualization.
How far is going Hardy to cope with vmware in the future ?

[glotz]

I couldn't agree more. Well spoken!

[Kowalski_GT-R]

feature bar very low

focus on polish and stability

ditto

[LaserJock]

Please don't take this wrong, but do we really need 4 pages to state the obvious? It's an LTS release, by definition we'll be focusing more on bug fixing and stability. We'll also be adding features and new packages as we always do, but our focus will definitely be on created a stable, supportable release and ensuring that users have as smooth an upgrade from Dapper and Gutsy as possible.

-LaserJock

[Shay Stephens]

Please don't take this wrong, but do we really need 4 pages to state the obvious? It's an LTS release, by definition we'll be focusing more on bug fixing and stability. We'll also be adding features and new packages as we always do, but our focus will definitely be on created a stable, supportable release and ensuring that users have as smooth an upgrade from Dapper and Gutsy as possible.

-LaserJock

There are four pages because people care :-)

That is a good thing. Post on!

[gtdaqua]

As a recent convert to Feisty, I have decided decided that I will only upgrade to LTS versions only. It is my understanding that LTS is the most stable version available. If that is true then developers should make it a bomb proof as possible instead of bleeding edge. IMHO we should be pushing the LTS version to new users for a trauma free installation. just my .02 :)

I second this. Keep things simple. Please. Normal people should be able to use the OS without the help of this forum - keep this as your objective and praises will come to you automtically if you get it done!

Dont try to conquer everything here. It will happen. But slow down. Concentrate on keeping things simpler. Even if there is a problem, the solution and the path to solution both must be simple. This will put you on the right track!

All the best to the HH team and may the Force be with you!

[Arathorn]

Please don't take this wrong, but do we really need 4 pages to state the obvious? It's an LTS release, by definition we'll be focusing more on bug fixing and stability. We'll also be adding features and new packages as we always do, but our focus will definitely be on created a stable, supportable release and ensuring that users have as smooth an upgrade from Dapper and Gutsy as possible.

-LaserJock
I was less then impressed by the first LTS, Dapper. Even the supposedly buggy Edgy worked a lot better. Off course Dapper was the first LTS, and Hardy should benefit a lot from the things learned during developing Dapper, but I'd rather be sure.

[ronacc]

My experience was completely different , I have 3 boxes , Dapper ran great on all 3 ,Edgy would not install at all on one of them , would install but was completly unuseable on the 2nd , would install but was just not as good as dapper on the 3rd.

[houstonbofh]

Please don't take this wrong, but do we really need 4 pages to state the obvious? It's an LTS release, by definition we'll be focusing more on bug fixing and stability. We'll also be adding features and new packages as we always do, but our focus will definitely be on created a stable, supportable release and ensuring that users have as smooth an upgrade from Dapper and Gutsy as possible.

-LaserJock
One would think... :) However if you look at the other threads here... And even in this thread. People are still calling for substantially new features, and this is not the place to debut "Fail Safe Gnome" for example. My purpose was to refocus everyone early in the dream stage to the fact that the next version is the on to push for all the changes that did not make Gutsy, not this one. :) So, yes, the obvious needs to be restated. Many times actually, so that we don't loose sight.

[arkara]

While we are dreaming of cool new toys to add, remember that this is an LTS release. It is less about new stuff and more about stable. Compiz still has major bugs. New versions of Ubuntu all use more power than ever before. There are tones of old bugs from 2 years ago that are still unfixed. We should set the feature bar very low, and focus on polish and stability. Yes, some new stuff, but no big new changes.

yes indeed this one should be very very stable and have a solid debian base.(BTW has anyone heard about a distro called Lesbian?)
so it has to have many bugfixes and less new "gizmos" and thats how the lts should be.

we need to have a more conservative approach

[Cariboo1938]

Please don't take this wrong, but do we really need 4 pages to state the obvious? It's an LTS release, by definition we'll be focusing more on bug fixing and stability. We'll also be adding features and new packages as we always do, but our focus will definitely be on created a stable, supportable release and ensuring that users have as smooth an upgrade from Dapper and Gutsy as possible.

-LaserJock
Yes, in fact there are 5 pages now because people care.....
and I hope we'll see a "smooth upgrade" from Feisty as well!