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yachp
October 19th, 2007, 09:32 PM
I have been using ubuntu as my primary os for quite a while. I am not a techie but I am not a totally inept either when it comes to futzing with computers.

I tried to upgrade and I could not boot into the desktop. It died while trying to deal with the boot up scripts. So I ended up losing the data in my linux partition.

I figured if I downloaded the CD and tried from scratch I would have better luck. So much for that idea.

I then tried Xubuntu. Well at least I got into the desktop this time. But I couldn't get the internet to work even though all the internet connection information was there.

As I have noticed many other people have had problems with installation. Clearly it was not ready to be released.

How is this any way to encourage people to migrate to linux? I use linux every day and I am not amused that I essentially wasted two days and in the end I have to go back to the old version of ubuntu.

thewolf32
October 19th, 2007, 09:44 PM
CLEARLY wasn't ready to be released. My god, I think they'll have to release a SECOND EDITION of gutsy, i'm not joking.

PrinceArithon
October 19th, 2007, 09:49 PM
I wouldn't worry so much about it guys. It will all get fixed as usual. Just...it might take until monday...

I am starting to think though...there were a lot of problems with the 6.10 upgrade as well...maybe it's just the .10 upgrade curse or something?? lol

Still to be honest, everything will be up and fixed real soon, I have faith in the developers and the others.

Aaron

arctic
October 19th, 2007, 09:59 PM
Still to be honest, everything will be up and fixed real soon, I have faith in the developers and the others.

Aaron
I guess that won't help those people who just borked their systems. ;)

jon_gunnar
October 19th, 2007, 10:03 PM
I wouldn't worry so much about it guys. It will all get fixed as usual. Just...it might take until monday...

I am starting to think though...there were a lot of problems with the 6.10 upgrade as well...maybe it's just the .10 upgrade curse or something?? lol

Still to be honest, everything will be up and fixed real soon, I have faith in the developers and the others.

Aaron

On top of that when you know how many downloads there has been I think the process has gone quite well.
Done two machines myself.One had a problem with the update manager,downloaded the iso and it worked without a hitch at all.
One of those machines were a real modified mess too..

tech9
October 19th, 2007, 10:03 PM
I have been using ubuntu as my primary os for quite a while. I am not a techie but I am not a totally inept either when it comes to futzing with computers.

I tried to upgrade and I could not boot into the desktop. It died while trying to deal with the boot up scripts. So I ended up losing the data in my linux partition.

I figured if I downloaded the CD and tried from scratch I would have better luck. So much for that idea.

I then tried Xubuntu. Well at least I got into the desktop this time. But I couldn't get the internet to work even though all the internet connection information was there.

As I have noticed many other people have had problems with installation. Clearly it was not ready to be released.

How is this any way to encourage people to migrate to linux? I use linux every day and I am not amused that I essentially wasted two days and in the end I have to go back to the old version of ubuntu.

I am noticing a lot of people complaining about problems with upgrading through 7.04...
I installed 7.10 clean ... and I have no problems - very fast and stable OS

Cannaregio
October 19th, 2007, 10:05 PM
I wonder WHY most people that don't know much about fixing problems by themselves (no offence to the OP intended) are starting threads about the problems they encounter when upgrading to the most recent version of ubuntu.

Why the hell do you upgrade? You want to experiment? (and then -yes- do upgrade as much as you fancy) or you want to work without interruptions? (and then do NOT upgrade every second week). C'mon, chose! Belly in, chin out!

You have a working feisty? Keep it and be happy. Don't fix it if it isn't broken.
Upgrade to gutsy (if ever) at -say- mid-term between gutsy and hoary: february/march 2008.

Or even keep / go back to your older "long term support" edition, the old 6.06, instead.
That's a pretty stable old horse. That's something you won't lose your oh so precious time with, poor dear.

But no. Everyone and his dog are upgrading to gutsy tribe/ gutsy beta / gutsy release 0.0 the very minute it is released, or before.
And then complain that they have problems with proprietary drivers, or even "losing data in their linux partition".

Of course they have such problems: walking blindfolded in a mine camp.
And in fact they should solve such problems by themselves. Experiment, try, find and spread a working solution, instead of pretending one from somebody else.
Or at least die and disappear from Linux usefully: freeing a path for those that follow, exploding unsuspected mines blindly walking on them.

You want no problems? Don't update like geeks if you'r no geek, don't update like nerds if you'r no nerd don't update blindly if your'not blind.

Rich78
October 19th, 2007, 10:07 PM
I've tried a few times to install 7.10 from scratch and had it freeze in different places on the install.

It now gets to 94% and just hangs.

Not impressed either.

It makes me think 7.10 isn't very stable at all.

6.10 was great straight out of the box but to quote "It just works" on the main Ubuntu site as a feature of 7.10 is a blatent lie.

Rich78
October 19th, 2007, 10:09 PM
I wonder WHY most people that don't know much about fixing problems by themselves (no offence to the OP intended) are starting threads about the problems they encounter when upgrading to the most recent version of ubuntu.


I'd agree if it was an alpha or beta release but not at final release. It's worse than M$ at this rate.

I don't expect a final release with support to 2009 to be a bleeding edge application.

yookoala
October 19th, 2007, 10:15 PM
I'm doing well with my Gutsy Gibbon laptop.
I think it's because I installed it with the Beta DVD iso.

Something may went terribly wrong with the iso building process of the official release...

Therion
October 19th, 2007, 10:22 PM
I wonder WHY most people that don't know much about fixing problems by themselves (no offence to the OP intended) are starting threads about the problems they encounter when upgrading to the most recent version of ubuntu.

Why the hell do you upgrade? You have a working feisty? Keep it and be happy. Don't fix it if it isn't broken ...Or even keep / go back to your older "long term support" edition, the old 6.06, instead ... That's something you won't lose your oh so precious time with, poor dear ... And in fact they should solve such problems by themselves ... You want no problems? Don't update like geeks if you'r no geek...
Wow. And thank YOU, too, for your support!!

You know, I came to Linux, and the Linux community in general, not long ago at all -- even after the dire warnings I got that the Linux Community consisted primarily of snotty, anal-retentive, elitist, jerks ("Proceed at your own risk! ... "Don't say we didn't warn you!") I didn't want to believe that was the case.

PrinceArithon
October 20th, 2007, 12:43 AM
I wouldn't say it's the case around here of people being jerks..elitists yes....but hey that is what happens when you belong to something Exclusive....I mean your screen name is Therion, that goes along with the progressive metal world...think about how some of those guys in the Prog Metal world are...it's a scary thought...it's why I just listen to it and don't go to many concerts.

Now, here is the thing. Most of us who upgraded on the first day were stupid....I should have known better....I upgraded right away with Edgy and had bad problems...not like my nividia problems now. Still I should have known better....

Still, there are a few problems, we jumped on the band wagon right at the begining...no wait we started the band wagon and now some of us who aren't sure how to stand are falling off the wagon. So what do we do to keep going?? We get up and keep going.

So all I'M saying is, so what if there are problems, in the next week or 2 everything should be status quo.

kast
October 20th, 2007, 01:01 AM
Cannaregio Might been able to put his comments in a more constructive way, but he's right. Not waitting at least for the smoke to settle is always asking for trouble.

gjtoth
October 20th, 2007, 01:07 AM
I've had both ways on two different versions... upgraded to Feisty and upgraded from Feisty to Gutsy. Was in on the beta through all the tribes. Were there hiccups? After the final release came out, did I do a FRESH INSTALL?You bet! Did I scream and whine when things didn't work out just right. No. Why? BECAUSE I BACKED UP MY DATA! If you lost your data, shame on YOU! Go play with XP or Vista for a while and pull the same stunt of not backing up your data. See how long you keep it. I deal with folks like that on almost a daily basis. I preach to them everytime I restore there oh-so-stable XP or Vista. And, funny thing, I can reinstall Ubuntu as many times as I darn-well please. Try that with XP or Vista! Yet they continue to rely on systems that -- sooner or later -- are going to eat their stuff. Linux, in general, is no different. BUT, IMHO... it's WAAAAAY more stable than those other OSs could every dream of being and a LOT more secure. Don't like the distro? Try another one! There's SCADS to try. Go to distrowatch and check 'em out. Ubuntu is no different than any other OS out there... different machines get different results. But, for the majority of the time -- it works flawlessly. Like on the three systems I have running at home right now. All different brands with different components. Lucky? Maybe. But, they work and they work extremely well.

agent8131
October 20th, 2007, 01:16 AM
I've tried a few times to install 7.10 from scratch and had it freeze in different places on the install.

It now gets to 94% and just hangs.

Not impressed either.

It makes me think 7.10 isn't very stable at all.

6.10 was great straight out of the box but to quote "It just works" on the main Ubuntu site as a feature of 7.10 is a blatent lie.

You should try running the verify option on the install CD. I had the same problem with a beta CD; turned out the CD was bad.

chrisfisehr
October 20th, 2007, 01:27 AM
Something may went terribly wrong with the iso building process of the official release...

I had the same thought that something went wrong with the official ISO. 7.04 ran very well on my computer. I don't like upgrading major OS releases so I backed up my data and did a clean install.

Here's why I think the official ISO is corrupt. I have downloaded 3 ISO's of 7.10 Final (2 from Torrents and 1 from main server), and all 3 get errors at some point during the install (usually right off the bat when the kernel loads). However, I can install 7.10 Release Candidate with NO PROBLEMS. In fact, since I wiped out my drive for the 7.10 final, I actually had to install, and are now running the 7.10 Release Candidate. Moreover, Adept keeps trying to update my to 7.10 final, and can't... keeps erroring out.. I strongly suspect that the ISO is corrupt.

Kleist
October 20th, 2007, 01:28 AM
Well, this is my experience so far.

I don't write much in this forum. Actually, I rarely look for answers here because since I've been using ubuntu (three years) I find it easy to use.

With each upgrade, I choose a fresh install. Of course, I backup my data and I expect at least to have some issues with the new OS.

Yesterday I installed gutsy. It does what it promised: It detected my printer (for the first time!), my internet worked, even those fancy visual effects appeared on my desktop, it's fast.

The only issue I'm still working on it: gutsy doesn't detect my windows partition at start up (yes, I have windows). I need to go to my computer, look for the partition, click it, write down my password and the partition is detected. Of course, I don't want to do this every time I log on in the computer.

But, I'm satisfied. Of course,, after all this time using ubuntu I won't complain when something goes wrong. I've had issues before and I found the way to solve it reading posts here. So, I know in a couple of days, someone will come up with a solution.

Fingers & Thumbs
October 20th, 2007, 01:32 AM
I had no problems installing, and to be fair, it did pretty much work, out of the box, obviously, I have changed some settings here and there, and I have had the odd application crash, but things are on the whole, pretty smooth.

I'm having trouble connecting with the repositories tonight, but I'm doubting this is a bug.

skompier
October 20th, 2007, 02:02 AM
I tried to update from feisty to gutsy via the update manager and something went wrong. I wasn't overly upset or concerned. I burned 7.10 to CD, wiped my linux partition and did a clean install. No problems. Everything worked as it should but before I did ANY of this, I backed up my HOME folder and important files to my Windows partition. I LOVE GUTSY!

Photon
October 20th, 2007, 02:07 AM
Installation just gets stuck at 22%. I was expecting a better final release than this. Were these things supposed to find their way to the final release?

gjtoth
October 20th, 2007, 02:11 AM
Installation just gets stuck at 22%. I was expecting a better final release than this. Were these things supposed to find their way to the final release?

no

ZenWarrior
October 20th, 2007, 02:26 AM
It's worse than M$ at this rate.

Thank goodness I'm not the only one with this opinion. In fact, I came here to say the very same thing. This upgrade was the absolute worst experience I've had with *ANY* operating system across 35 years and everything from mainframes to the Apple II to even Vista. This wasn't even an alpha release. In fact, it makes Vista look like the Second Coming! Honestly, I would never have thought that even close to being possible.

How bad was it? I now despise Ubuntu. That's not only b/c of the upgrade, but what it cost. It cost me a good deal of my reputation and Ubuntu is now completely banned in my organizational group. I'd been preaching its merits quite a while and had pretty much persuaded the powers-that-be to eschew Microsoft for once. However, Microsoft is now more fimly entrenched than ever and Ubuntu/Linux isn't even allowed in the building.

Maybe Bill Gates isn't do dumb after all and maybe Microsoft's products aren't so bad, either. Thanks for nothing but a day from hell, Ubuntu. :mad:

Bleak Outlook
October 20th, 2007, 03:12 AM
How bad was it? I now despise Ubuntu. That's not only b/c of the upgrade, but what it cost. It cost me a good deal of my reputation and Ubuntu is now completely banned in my organizational group. I'd been preaching its merits quite a while and had pretty much persuaded the powers-that-be to eschew Microsoft for once. However, Microsoft is now more fimly entrenched than ever and Ubuntu/Linux isn't even allowed in the building.


i liked this rant, its good to see you stick to your values
this bit says it all


I'd been preaching its merits quite a while and had pretty much persuaded the powers-that-be to eschew Microsoft for once. However..ect.ect

so ubuntu was good enuff for you to recommend replacing windows for good
then you have 1 bad day and you roll over on it!
sorry but big boo hoo
it sounds like you have never used ubuntu before
the so called "powers that be's" belief in you must have just sky rocketed imagine how much trouble there would have been if they had taken your obviously well thought out advice ?

one day its the answer to all their woes the next its banned from the building.
think they will take you seriously again? you my friend have just become a financial risk

i have spent the last 2 days not even being able to get to the desktop in the live cd
have i thrown my rattle from the pram?
no ive been reading every connected thread, post or rumour
see its a learning experience and a challenge
im sorry linux makes you have to think, oh well i hope you enjoy using your windows os that you so obviously hate (or have you now decided its the best thing on gods green earth?)

:lolflag: numpty

Jimlas53
October 20th, 2007, 03:16 AM
I've followed the beta/ upgrade/ release cycles since Hoary, and this cycle has definitely not been as successful, IMO.
I have always maintained /home on a SEPARATE PARTITION so I will not LOSE my data and settings. It is, by far, the simplest way to keep from having a botched system. Based on the activity on these forums for the past several days, I think the Ubuntu folks may have done a huge dis-service to the many potential users out there who are trying to jump away from windows, and they are jumping into no end of problems. They will leave with a bad taste, and that is a shame. I run 5 computers: 2 Dapper, 1 Feisty, 2 Gutsy, and no windows machines (thank you VirtualBox!)
To those who are having a bad experience: go back to Feisty, or whichever version worked on your syste. Give the devs a little time to get this sorted out. But DON'T GIVE UP! Gutsy will be there, and soon.

HermanAB
October 20th, 2007, 03:18 AM
Here you go:
http://torrent.mandriva.com/public/

Time to try another flavour.

Mobbringer
October 20th, 2007, 03:37 AM
I installed Gutsy Gibbon yesterday. No problems installing what so ever... I've had some problems with network connections and I accidently stuffed up the graphics part, so I have to reinstall it. :rolleyes:
But that's nothing big. Gutsy has just been released, it's the same as everything when it first gets released. It's buggy, but has updates/upgrades to make it stabler.
Unless your trying to tell me that Microsoft never has any bugs? If so, you've obviously never heard of Vista :p
Also XP was buggy when it was first released..

So just give it time and it'll be fine.

GreenMeanie
October 20th, 2007, 03:50 AM
The only problem I have so far is I can't copy the home folder to the desktop.

Therion
October 20th, 2007, 03:54 AM
Just for the record, I've had some issues getting Gutsy up and running, but nothing a little tweaking of X didn't resolve in about fifteen or twenty minutes (once I got home from work). I'm posting from my fresh install right now while I continue with the customization process. :)

I'm very, very happy with Gutsy in the overall.

@ PrinceArithon: Therion... Progressive rock band?

:confused:

I had no idea...

obx-jdt
October 20th, 2007, 03:59 AM
When upgrading any Linux system, just upgrade your root partition, and use your same user name and password. That way you won't loose your data on your home partition.....

erv2
October 20th, 2007, 04:24 AM
it doesn't matter that many of you managed install gusty, the fact is, there are also many of us who are having problem with gusty at the same time.

dont you think it's a problem?

i tried the live cd, it only boots as far as to the Busybox

i tried the alternative cd, it's very very slow for some strange reason, the text-based interface refresh at the speed of 3 lines/sec, and it took me 12+ hours to get stuck at configuring apt and i also lost the data from the harddisk.

what is most most important for an OS to be popular? i'd say whoever wants it should be able to INSTALL it, with ease. in this case, gusty fails!!

fatfranko
October 20th, 2007, 04:44 AM
I am pretty new to Linux. I started with Feisty a few weeks after its release. it installed flawlessly on all my computers. Gutsy is a way better experience imo. Though, the two comps I installed it on so far wasn't flawless. They both had the same problem, the Ubuntu load screen was blank on both my laptop and my desktop. This was easily fixed by changing the resolution on my grub's menu.lst. With some fine tuning on my laptop's xorg.conf, I was able to get my Compiz-Fusion to work, but I had to do that in Feisty anyway (eye candy isn't a high priority with me though). My desktop, on the other hand, worked fine with Beryl in Feisty, but Compiz-Fusion in Gutsy, I'm having no luck. I haven't found a solution yet on the forums but, given some time, I'm sure I'll find my answer. That's why I love Ubuntu, the community is sooo helpful! I'm pretty sure its actually a problem with Compiz-Fusion and not Gutsy though. Anyway, I'm kind of torn on opinions. I would like Ubuntu to be easy enough for grandma, but I still think its an excellent solution for those with average knowledge in computers and doesn't mind asking questions. Though, I think, with time, grandma will be livin' Ubuntu loca!

One question though. This is the first time I was around for the actual release. Given all these problems people are having on this thread that actually sound like show stoppers (forgive me if I'm using the wrong terminology, I'm still a bit of a noob), does Ubuntu usually release updated ISOs after the "final" release? if so, that'll be cool! If not, hopefully the next release, Hardy Heron, will be as flawless as, imo, Fiesty was.

Cronjob
October 20th, 2007, 04:48 AM
My advice would really be to always stay a version behind. Let other people play with 7.10. By the time 8.04 is out, 7.10 will have an abundance of information and fixes available that you can quickly find with a brief google search. This way you're not dealing with fresh problems and waiting for devised solutions. You do a quick search, see what everyone else did over the last six months to solve that issue and perform it.

I'll admit I've run into a number of problems, such as the proprietary device installer failing to handle my linksys wrt54g card, my sound completely going away after a reboot and the packaging system telling me that there is a "new upgrade!" available (7.10) even though I'm already running 7.10...

But that's the price I pay for jumping on 7.10 right out of the gate.

Yes, there are still plenty of issues that are harrying and difficult for seasoned professionals like myself that would made this nearly impossible for a relatively new person making a switch to linux, but . . . they can't work miracles and each release is a step forward. More or less.

scapalexis888
October 20th, 2007, 04:51 AM
I wonder WHY most people that don't know much about fixing problems by themselves (no offence to the OP intended) are starting threads about the problems they encounter when upgrading to the most recent version of ubuntu.

Why the hell do you upgrade? You want to experiment? (and then -yes- do upgrade as much as you fancy) or you want to work without interruptions? (and then do NOT upgrade every second week). C'mon, chose! Belly in, chin out!

You have a working feisty? Keep it and be happy. Don't fix it if it isn't broken.
Upgrade to gutsy (if ever) at -say- mid-term between gutsy and hoary: february/march 2008.

Or even keep / go back to your older "long term support" edition, the old 6.06, instead.
That's a pretty stable old horse. That's something you won't lose your oh so precious time with, poor dear.

But no. Everyone and his dog are upgrading to gutsy tribe/ gutsy beta / gutsy release 0.0 the very minute it is released, or before.
And then complain that they have problems with proprietary drivers, or even "losing data in their linux partition".

Of course they have such problems: walking blindfolded in a mine camp.
And in fact they should solve such problems by themselves. Experiment, try, find and spread a working solution, instead of pretending one from somebody else.
Or at least die and disappear from Linux usefully: freeing a path for those that follow, exploding unsuspected mines blindly walking on them.

You want no problems? Don't update like geeks if you'r no geek, don't update like nerds if you'r no nerd don't update blindly if your'not blind.

Just had to agree with you there. But I think some people just wanted to try new stuff. But if people are going to do that, I thought people will be sensable enough to do two things: 1. Back up important data. 2. try it on a virtual machine first. That's what I did and I did not waste two days.

R.Bucky
October 20th, 2007, 04:58 AM
Yes, the 7.10 seems ok but it does have bugs. As a community, we will have to address those bugs to make it better. I tried out Mandriva 2008 (KDE) and it rocks. Give it a shot. You WILL be impressed.

R-Dot-Yung
October 20th, 2007, 05:14 AM
I guess that won't help those people who just borked their systems. ;)


like me...

i upgraded and the thing wont even work unless im in failsafe gnome...

so much for 7.10...

i just backed up my whole HDD and am about to clean wipe and put back 7.04...

im upset to say the least

kopinux
October 20th, 2007, 08:22 AM
you can start with corrupted .iso, dirty cd drive lens, bad burning process, bad cd.

sicofante
October 20th, 2007, 09:24 AM
I wonder WHY most people that don't know much about fixing problems by themselves (no offence to the OP intended) are starting threads about the problems they encounter when upgrading to the most recent version of ubuntu.
Because they have been told an upgrade is available, they want to try new things and they aren't expected to know how to fix things broken by and end user desktop operating system's upgrade?

Your idea that it takes a geek to upgrade to an official release is a pretty prehistoric Linux attitude, thankfully outdated by this very Linux distro, Ubuntu and the respectful community you are in. Hopefully, all these complaining posts will help the Ubuntu team understand the importance of creating reliable upgrades.

I suggest you go back to your terminal and stop lecturing ordinary people about what they must do or do not.

Samhain13
October 20th, 2007, 09:25 AM
I have to agree with those who say that the Feisty release was a lot more successful. However, this is not to say that my Gutsy install went bad. I like Gutsy very much.

Fingers & Thumbs
October 20th, 2007, 09:47 AM
Despite my trouble free install, I have now encountered a few minor problems, many of which are now fine.

Really all I want to say to anybody who's install is not going well is, be patient, persevere, you won't be dissapointed when things fall into place, it is an incredible environment, visually stunning once you start customising, but of course, the real teat of an OS is how it allows you to interact with and make use of it's features and utilities, and how well they are integrated into the environment. Gutsy does this well in my opinion, ok, it is a little buggy, but nothing terribly major, and I can see what it intends to be and doubt that it will be long before they get rectified.

In short all the parts are in place for this to be the best desktop OS avialable right now, and in my opinion, it already is.

Artificial Intelligence
October 20th, 2007, 10:05 AM
Some good advise for newbies:

1) Wait a month before installing the latest version of X,Y,Z distro after its release.

2) Have seperated /home (a good idea is to have / (root), /home and /boot)

3) Go for Clean install - (no matter which OS, an upgrade is hazardious, especially if you have non-official libs/apps installed).

4) Download the torrent .iso - (less likely it will be corrupt than FTP/HTTP download)

5) Make sure the CD/DVD-drive is clean, also check the CD/DVD for damaging and dirt. - (yes, this seems so obvious, but I helped alot of people where these simple step did the diffrence, note: the quality of the CD/DVD also have an impact on success rate).

6) Check the checksum of the downloaded .iso.

7) Burn the CD/DVD at 4x speed and verify.

8 ) When inserting the Linux CD got to the "verify" option, and let it check itself - (this avoid you to install a borked version).

==============
Troubleshooting

a) If it continously fail regarding borked CD, mismath checksum, download the .iso from another mirror - (I have been there where one of the mirrors had a bad .iso).

b) If check and verify is okay and it still fail to install/load go for the alternate CD instead - which have text installer. - (It's much more stabil and not difficult if you read and follow the text installer guide)

c) Check your memory for bad sections - (yes, your hardware may have failure)

d) ATI cards - Nothing new here, always been a struggle regardless which Linux distro. But that will change soon (hopefully) as the driver goes Open Source .

e) Intel cards - clumbsyness and/or slow respond - install : libgl1-mesa-dri

mybunche
October 20th, 2007, 10:21 AM
What could be causing problems for some and not others?

When I installed 6.10 a year ago there were comments saying how buggy and unstable it was. I still haven't had a problem and it has been 100% stable.

There are many steps between the ISO and when it finally gets installed on the hard drive.

Could some of the problems be a combination of:
-hardware
-current software installed
-downloading errors even though MD5 matches (possible?)
-disc burning errors even though verified (possible?)
-disc reading errors, disc quality, optical drive etc

eg I have tried burning disc at auto speed and the boot up failed. I then tried burning disc from the same image at the lowest speed and it was fine. I wonder how many people are burning at the lowest speed.

overlord.gaurav
October 20th, 2007, 10:29 AM
As soon as I read the title of this thread, I realized, "it is just another thread criticizing Gusty Gibbon"
I have seen so many threads on the similar issue. People having problems installing, network not working, compiz erasing the borders, graphic card drivers not installing!
*bleh* Why do you wish to act like a "pro" in here and be amongst the first ones to install it and show off??!!
And then you come in booming a new thread and shouting "I read sooo many threads, *this that, bla bla* Gutsy is no where close to M$. I have been using Fiesty it worked so fine *and it goes on and on..* "


1. I read the forums on a regual basis. This is what people said: "There are going to be fixes in Gutsy just like Edgy. I would wait for a week or to for the fixes and then have a clean install.

-Did I follow it? Yes, and that is why I am still in love with ubuntu.

2. If you're really intrested in playing around soo much, then always have a backup and.

-Does any other OS give you such kind of a play ground to play around? If yes, then show me, even I would love to play. If you are playing around everytime, get ready to be hurt! Do not complain.

3. You blame the people replying to your comments on this forum.
-Most of the people over here really like ubuntu to its core. We find solutions if we face problems. Always remember: You are asking for help. So be polite!

4.Now as for the help: There's is nothing we can do for things such as "I'm not impressed"
You have a problem share it, we will try to solve it. As most of the problems have already been discussed in some or the other thread, all you have to do is just sit back and wait for a week for the fixes to show up.

cowkiller
October 20th, 2007, 12:25 PM
Firstly, I dunno what's the point now on comparing Ubuntu and M$ right now, I think it's totally useless to discuss about who's got better performace or whatever. Let's just focus on this new Ubuntu release, see what's good and what could be better.

Secondly, I have no complains about the installation process, actually, I had to use the alternate CD for feisty and this time I could use Gutsy Live cd with no problem. That impressed me, but right now I'm have a lot of troubles to make my resolution and monitor frequency working properly.
I've followed all the recommendations (make backups, do a fresh install...) and I'm not a total newbie in Linux, so all this problem keeps me a bit annoyed. Anyway, one of the big points of this release should be precisely a better and easier configuration of monitor and video, and I don't care that it's been released a couple days ago... then, what would be alpha, beta and RC versions good for? I just can say that at this point it's not ready to work in an user-friendly way, or else, I shouldn't be messing around with xorg.conf right now, mostly having a common Nvidia graphic card ^^

I undestand that Ubuntu is a free OS and it's a hell of a work. I can wait some days for a fix, or keep trying to solve it. I like all these kind of things, but I can understand all that people who are annoyed because of these bugs... why should they wait to have a final release? why should they keep having 6.10 when gutsy is much better and it's supposed to work just fine? (Moreover a System that claims to be for any kind of user, no matter the skills you have).

Also, I'd like to say that some "hacker-wannabe" comments I've read are totally out of the point. Use Slackware, or better, make yourself a unique distro impossible to understand by anyone but you, But I think that the Ubuntu Spirit is precisely the opposite: the more people using it, the better. Not "the more geek and informatics using it, the better". It's necessary to follow some rules when asking, and also good to try solving problems by oneself, but not everyone wants to be a hacker, some just want to use the PC like a tool, with a very basic knowlegde about it. And they're people too.

sicofante
October 20th, 2007, 01:10 PM
1) Wait a month before installing the latest version of X,Y,Z distro after its release.
This simply amazes me: if that's so, it's the Ubuntu team the one who must wait one more month before release. This is a final release, not a beta or RC.


2) Have seperated /home (a good idea is to have / (root), /home and /boot)
Why? I hate partitions, they waste your disk space and if the OS is good enough, there shouldn't be any issues. Again, not a user responsibility, but the people behind the distro.


3) Go for Clean install - (no matter which OS, an upgrade is hazardious, especially if you have non-official libs/apps installed).
I may have missed the red signs and all precaution advise. I just saw a button in my update manager saying an upgrade was available. You click on it and you get your upgrade. There's even no advise to update your previous version first (that advise is buried somewhere on the web, I discovered it later).

Moreover: a clean install every six months? Are you kidding? Isn't this exactly why we're running away from Windowsland?

If Ubuntu is not going to be any more reliable than Microsoft products, this is being a very big waste of time.

sicofante
October 20th, 2007, 01:18 PM
Why do you wish to act like a "pro" in here and be amongst the first ones to install it and show off??!!
WTH has it to do with "pros"? Ubuntu has released a new version. They tell me on their website to upgrade. I trust these guys. I'm entitled to suppose they know what they're doing.




1. I read the forums on a regual basis. This is what people said: "There are going to be fixes in Gutsy just like Edgy. I would wait for a week or to for the fixes and then have a clean install.Again: ask the Ubuntu team to wait that week for release. Also, ask the Ubuntu team to stop marketing upgrades, if they're not supposed to work. And by the way, don't ask or expect Ubuntu users or customers to "read the forums on a regular basis". Ever.

This is so absurd and ridiculous I can't believe I have to say this more than once.


If you are playing around everytime, get ready to be hurt! Do not complain. Are you saying upgrading an OS according to the developer's advice (please visit www.ubuntu.com (http://www.ubuntu.com)) is "playing around everytime"? Are you being serious?


Always remember: You are asking for help. So be polite!

4.Now as for the help: There's is nothing we can do for things such as "I'm not impressed"
This is a testimonials forum, just in case you didn't notice. No one is asking for help here.

Jee, I thought this was an elitist-geek-free forum for a non-elitist Linux distro. :(

Artificial Intelligence
October 20th, 2007, 01:18 PM
Please stop trolling. I gave some good advice take'em or leave them.

Every distro and/or OS have bugs in the start at every release.

sicofante
October 20th, 2007, 01:27 PM
Nobody's trolling here. Your advise shows the very wrong direction the Ubuntu team is taking with new releases and I believe we must strongly oppose that direction. Sorry that you don't like my position, but please stop calling trolls people whose opinion you dislike.

Artificial Intelligence
October 20th, 2007, 01:38 PM
Well you're nitpicking here regarding the "fault" gutsy have. Try compared it with other OS and its bugs (Vista comes into mind as an example).



Why? I hate partitions, they waste your disk space and if the OS is good enough, there shouldn't be any issues. Again, not a user responsibility, but the people behind the distro.

You don't waste space by split it into /home /root /boot you just reorganize it, so if you want to keep your settings for a completly new install or upgrade.



I may have missed the red signs and all precaution advise. I just saw a button in my update manager saying an upgrade was available. You click on it and you get your upgrade. There's even no advise to update your previous version first (that advise is buried somewhere on the web, I discovered it later).

Moreover: a clean install every six months? Are you kidding? Isn't this exactly why we're running away from Windowsland?

If Ubuntu is not going to be any more reliable than Microsoft products, this is being a very big waste of time.

Because it available doesn't mean it's safest. Nothing is flawless despite what there have been said or not been said.

old_salt
October 20th, 2007, 01:46 PM
As an I.T. pro of 20 yr I chomp at the bit to get the latest and greatest. It's just in our blood however, I installed Gutsy from scratch on an HP DV9000z AMD64 Dual Core 2.2Ghz System using Kubuntu 64bit Alternate install. Lot's of issues for me and everyone on this platform.

My opinion is Gutsy took a step backwards. Half of anything is missing or not available compared to Feisty and when you try to install from source, well, you get caught in dependency hell with no way out because nothing is available. That's not how you roll out a release.

I also think that if your making drastic changes to a platform such as replacing the file manager, you need to offer a choice, not just yank the carpet out from under one or at least provide some documentation or not on how to revert back if one so desires.

Hardware support for the HP platform missed the boat completely. I know I helped a lot of users submit hardware configs to the database but it appears it went to the bit bucket. About the only good change I saw with Gutsy is FINALLY the ease in getting the wireless setup.

Items of note that are still broken
- sound (Inop for a lot - terrible sound for others)
- video (external monitor broken - HW Acceleration inop)
- webcam (inop)
- Bluetooth (what a dog and delay at bootup)
- AppArmor (leave this to Red Hat, this is a joke)
- Dolphin lacks true integration into the desktop on KDE
- Intermittent USB issues (drop connects, lockups etc)
- No Lightscribe support
- Keyboard - carefully press a key once and watch it take off

The forums are FULL of HP folks who realy supported Feisty and were expecting the best with Gutsy only now to be forced back down. I among many believe that Gutsy is a Dell only release.

overlord.gaurav
October 20th, 2007, 02:02 PM
WTH has it to do with "pros"? Ubuntu has released a new version. They tell me on their website to upgrade. I trust these guys. I'm entitled to suppose they know what they're doing.


Again: ask the Ubuntu team to wait that week for release. Also, ask the Ubuntu team to stop marketing upgrades, if they're not supposed to work. And by the way, don't ask or expect Ubuntu users or customers to "read the forums on a regular basis". Ever.

This is so absurd and ridiculous I can't believe I have to say this more than once.

Are you saying upgrading an OS according to the developer's advice (please visit www.ubuntu.com (http://www.ubuntu.com)) is "playing around everytime"? Are you being serious?

This is a testimonials forum, just in case you didn't notice. No one is asking for help here.

Jee, I thought this was an elitist-geek-free forum for a non-elitist Linux distro. :(

Well, if you're trying to say that any OS releases without any kind of bug/problems then why don't you name one??
I haven't noticed any OS that has released without any problems/bug till date! *reminds me of the mostly used M$*
If you are having a problem then you can surely place your humble requests instead of demands. Looking at your comments which are going against everyone and not just me it makes me feel you're in here for some kind of fight!?

sicofante
October 20th, 2007, 02:09 PM
Well you're nitpicking here regarding the "fault" gutsy have. Try compared it with other OS and its bugs (Vista comes into mind as an example).
Wrong reasoning: "we are as bad as anyone else" won't take us very far.


You don't waste space by split it into /home /root /boot you just reorganize it, so if you want to keep your settings for a completly new install or upgrade.You do wast space unless your partitions are exactly the size of what they contain (which is not good anyway). All right, it's not a lot of space what you waste and I agree that having /home apart makes it easier to make upgrades (I don't see the point of /boot though), but not all your settings will be saved because many important settings are not in your home directory. I don't think people complaints about loosing their data, though. Everybody knows doing regular backups is mandatory when using computers.


Because it available doesn't mean it's safest. Nothing is flawless despite what there have been said or not been said.No, it doesn't mean it's safest. It just means the developers have tested many betas and release candidates and now they're sure we can do an upgrade to enjoy the newer features they've been developing for the last six months. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the point of every new release. Now if you're advising everyone to not trust the developers, not upgrade and even wait one more month because the developers don't seem to know what they're doing...

Do they release a newer ISO a month after the broken one? If not, why the fresh install a month from now? Does the upgrade procedure change in a month? Why? If it's user feedback what they need, what are the betas and release candidates for? I'm lost.

sicofante
October 20th, 2007, 02:18 PM
Looking at your comments which are going against everyone and not just me it makes me feel you're in here for some kind of fight!?
Against everyone? Against you? You're talking about "pros" and lecturing people in the wrong place (reminder: testimonial forum) and it's me against you? Whatever. :confused:

Yes, I'm here for some kind of fight: Ubuntu should not make the same mistakes as everyone else, so please stop that "every other OS/distro does it equally bad". There are no shareholders pressing the development team to bring something new and shiny but unstable to "market" (what market?). There's no point in making all these efforts just to copy the worst practices of commercial proprietary software. (By the way, let's monitor Apple forums next week and see how OSX Leopard is doing...)

People should be able to trust every Ubuntu release to a point where only a handful of users would experience small issues instead of everyone flooding the forums with all sorts of issues. Again: this is not a beta release.

cowkiller
October 20th, 2007, 02:18 PM
Well, if you're trying to say that any OS releases without any kind of bug/problems then why don't you name one??
I haven't noticed any OS that has released without any problems/bug till date! *reminds me of the mostly used M$*
If you are having a problem then you can surely place your humble requests instead of demands. Looking at your comments which are going against everyone and not just me it makes me feel you're in here for some kind of fight!?


Isn't it clear enough the advantages of using Linux instead of Windows? ... and moreover, what's the consolation on knowing that MS releases also have bugs?

I don't see sicofante attacking anyone here, just writing down his thoughts about this last release.
There are some several bugs and that's a fact, there's no use on taking shelter on sentences like "no OS is free of bugs" and "MS Vista's got much more bugs" ....so what?

I still think, too much unstability for a final release.

tseliot
October 20th, 2007, 02:45 PM
This simply amazes me: if that's so, it's the Ubuntu team the one who must wait one more month before release. This is a final release, not a beta or RC.
This doesn't mean it's perfect. The more people test it with their hardware the more bugs might come up. It might take some time before these new bugs (or the minor bugs which weren't fixed on time) are solved.


Why? I hate partitions, they waste your disk space and if the OS is good enough, there shouldn't be any issues. Again, not a user responsibility, but the people behind the distro.
This is your opinion and Artificial Intelligence disagrees (and so do I).

Now, can we move on to other things? Thanks


I may have missed the red signs and all precaution advise. I just saw a button in my update manager saying an upgrade was available. You click on it and you get your upgrade. There's even no advise to update your previous version first (that advise is buried somewhere on the web, I discovered it later).

Moreover: a clean install every six months? Are you kidding? Isn't this exactly why we're running away from Windowsland?
There is a "small" difference between the 2 cases (at least, as far as I can tell from my experience):

1) in Windows you have to reinstall the system when the system is broken.

2) in Ubuntu you don't have to upgrade to the next release. You can wait until your system is no longer supported (with security updates) and wait until you feel comfortable with the idea of upgrading [and wait for the first bugs to be fixed].

I keep my data in /home so that I can do a clean installation without having to restore a backup of my data. In this way I can afford a clean installation as often as I like. But again, this is my choice.

NOTE: I'm not saying that dist-upgrading is wrong.


If Ubuntu is not going to be any more reliable than Microsoft products, this is being a very big waste of time.
Ubuntu works flawlessly on my 3 computers at home and on 2 laptops. I can say that it's much more reliable than Windows on my computers.

If you think that running Ubuntu on your hardware is a waste of time, maybe you should try something which works better for you.

dmacdonald111
October 20th, 2007, 02:48 PM
People. People. I know that Gutsy is not very stable and as a release version, it is way from perfect, but you must remember that this is 'linux'. If as many people that did download Gutsy, didn't, then no one would know of the problems and they wouldn't be fixed and where would the development be? Yes alpha and beta releases are expected to be buggy whilst an official release is not, but unless we have the same size team and financial support that M$ has there is no way it is going to be perfect.

Everyone has chosen linux (specifically ubuntu in this case) because of different reasons, but mainly to give people a choice in OS's. Maybe instead of preaching about how bad it is, spend the same amount of effort in helping fix the issues. I, myself, am staying with Feisty. Purely because it works, does what I want and there is no need for me to upgrade. In the past I have upgraded, come across problems and had to sort them out and I stuck with it until everything was working again. It's just my personal view (and a lot agree based on other people's opinions) but it 'if it ain't broke - don't fix it!'

greghill
October 20th, 2007, 02:51 PM
I have been using Ubuntu since the very first edition, having tried my hand at a few other distros before that. I must say that Ubuntu is the most stable and most productive (yes, I use it at home AND at work - just one of the lucky ones!) I have ever used.
Curently I am using 7.04 Feisty and find it to be the most exceptional and stable OS available today. Absolutely no complaints. I was very tempted to try Gutsy and even went so far as to do the download and burn it to a CD. I tried running it live and it appears OK, but I can't see any justification for installing it as a replacement for what I have already - which is a perfectly stable, reliable system with all the features I need and want (with the exception of not being able to record anything from the microphone). I have the LTS version installed on my laptop at work (Toshiba Satellite) and it just chugs along every day without problems (while the Macs and PCs around me are crashing constantly!)
I have decided to wait a bit before upgrading, if I upgrade at all. I'm so happy with my present installation that I might just wait for the next version. The latest and greatest is not always the best. IMHO if your system does what you want it to, then it's not outdated.
Just my two cents worth...:)

ZenWarrior
October 20th, 2007, 02:55 PM
then you have 1 bad day and you roll over on it!


First, the concept. How would you like it if the heart surgeon performing open-heart surgery on you had his one bad day on the day you were having surgery?

My point is there are some industries, businesses, or tasks where you cannot afford even a single bad day.

And FYI, I've been using Ubuntu on a couple of my own machines for quite a good while. In fact, one is Linux only, not even dual-boot. That usage comes after using Unix for years. In fact, I *finally* got Ubuntu/GG installed--after 10 hours--on a test machine at home last night. Ten hours for an OS upgrade?! I remember that being okay when we were using mainframes with magnetic tape reels (old enough to remember those?), but it doesn't cut it where I am now and here in the 21st century. Things tend to move very fast in some corners of the business world. (You would like that check to clear quickly, wouldn't you?)

Oops, wait a minute. I get you now. Sorry, my bad. You're saying Ubuntu should not be used for business. You're right.

sicofante
October 20th, 2007, 03:25 PM
To all of you happy pre-Gutsy users: I couldn't be happier for you too, but maybe I should remind you we're discussing about the new release not being great. Sure there's no one pointing a gun to our head. Sure upgrading is optional. Some of you even go as far as saying it shouldn't be done, period. All right, upgrades, new versions, new features, new things aren't for you. You're not even being targeted by new versions of Ubuntu. You're safe. Good for you.

Now, for those who enjoy newer releases and are still following, I believe all this comes to: was Gutsy ready for release? Is the Ubuntu team putting better ISOs out there in a month or two? (If not, what should we use for fresh installs from now on?) Should we wait one more month and then upgrade all our family systems? Two months? Maybe the Ubuntu team should make it very clear, come upfront and say "No upgrades until December, guys, or do it at your own risk." I don't know. This is confusing, see?

Let's ask our developers to postpone a release when they're not 99% sure. Looks like they're releasing at 80%... Maybe that cool six months cycle is not right. Maybe it puts just too much pressure. All I know is a bad release is always worst for reputation than a postponed release. A postponed release may increase our confidence in the Ubuntu team, while a bad release erodes it.

Maybe there should be no "whole releases" at all, just small improvements on individual packages coming at their own pace.

rustybronco
October 20th, 2007, 04:33 PM
Just some things to think about.

You are talking about a company that has in three years taken an alternative operating system most people have never heard of or would even think about trying, to a system that offers you the most leading edge packages that open source has to offer, without you having to spend one coin out of pocket, you can even order a cd of that operating sytem and get it shipped too you for that same price.

you can still get the older versions to try out to see if it will work with your hardware. Where in the world can one get a deal like that?

you can modify ubuntu to your hearts content to make it better or to work with some hardware that the manufacturer chooses not to offer linux support, ether for yourself or others, helping others is one of the reasons this forum exists , so you have a choice, you may ask for help or choose to help make it a better operating sysyem than it already is, or not to help if that is your choice and no one will even complain.

any operating system or product that you get can get usually will have some kind of problem, the netgear router that I bought I had to search on different forums for days to find out the problem was with xp QOS, mostly one stop shopping on this forum because people go out of their way to help, while asking for only respect in return.

now it's your choice..

cowkiller
October 20th, 2007, 04:35 PM
This shouldn't be a discussion among pro-ubuntu and anti-ubuntu anyway. Not even pro-gutsy and anti-gutsy!

As far as I can see, everyone here is a Linux user, and everyone wants to have the best OS possible. I guess that being conformist and giving excuses won't help at all in order to keep improving Ubuntu.
I don't think that any user having trouble with Gutsy cares if my 23 laptops and 15 PC work perfectly in feisty or gutsy, it won't solve anything for him... neither comparing to windows (again "), I've been using windows Xp and never ever had any problem with drivers, unlike in Ubuntu, so... does it make XP a better OS than Ubuntu? Certainly not

So I'd suggest everyone to relax a bit and move away from defensive positions, and try to understand each other, that's my opinion.

Ringi
October 20th, 2007, 04:41 PM
Maybe there should be no "whole releases" at all, just small improvements on individual packages coming at their own pace.

You must have a deadline, just like when you build a house

without windows.

wolfen69
October 20th, 2007, 06:56 PM
I've had both ways on two different versions... upgraded to Feisty and upgraded from Feisty to Gutsy. Was in on the beta through all the tribes. Were there hiccups? After the final release came out, did I do a FRESH INSTALL?You bet! Did I scream and whine when things didn't work out just right. No. Why? BECAUSE I BACKED UP MY DATA! If you lost your data, shame on YOU! Go play with XP or Vista for a while and pull the same stunt of not backing up your data. See how long you keep it. I deal with folks like that on almost a daily basis. I preach to them everytime I restore there oh-so-stable XP or Vista. And, funny thing, I can reinstall Ubuntu as many times as I darn-well please. Try that with XP or Vista! Yet they continue to rely on systems that -- sooner or later -- are going to eat their stuff. Linux, in general, is no different. BUT, IMHO... it's WAAAAAY more stable than those other OSs could every dream of being and a LOT more secure. Don't like the distro? Try another one! There's SCADS to try. Go to distrowatch and check 'em out. Ubuntu is no different than any other OS out there... different machines get different results. But, for the majority of the time -- it works flawlessly. Like on the three systems I have running at home right now. All different brands with different components. Lucky? Maybe. But, they work and they work extremely well.

good point. i install distros like most people change their underwear. why? because it's fun. (you also become somewhat of an expert at installing) im also not afraid of losing anything, because i keep NOTHING of importance on my drives with an OS on it. i have 3 storage drives for this. people need to wake up, and backup.

sicofante
October 20th, 2007, 09:55 PM
You must have a deadline, just like when you build a house

without windows.
All right, but you don't need a deadline for the whole thing. Fine tune Compiz for Ubuntu and announce you will have it ready by a certain date. Make adjustments to the Network Manager and have a deadline for the new release, etc. Instead of milestones covering the whole system, the upgrading process could be divided in smaller projects milestones. Different projects have different roadmaps and timings.

Ringi
October 20th, 2007, 10:27 PM
All right, but you don't need a deadline for the whole thing. Fine tune Compiz for Ubuntu and announce you will have it ready by a certain date. Make adjustments to the Network Manager and have a deadline for the new release, etc. Instead of milestones covering the whole system, the upgrading process could be divided in smaller projects milestones. Different projects have different roadmaps and timings.

Yes you do, or else you get stuck in endless work repairing bugs.

Cannaregio
October 20th, 2007, 10:39 PM
Your idea that it takes a geek to upgrade to an official release is a pretty prehistoric Linux attitude, thankfully outdated by this very Linux distro, Ubuntu and the respectful community you are in. Hopefully, all these complaining posts will help the Ubuntu team understand the importance of creating reliable upgrades.

I suggest you go back to your terminal and stop lecturing ordinary people about what they must do or do not.

What's unclear in what I said?


Why the hell do you upgrade? You want to experiment? (and then -yes- do upgrade as much as you fancy) or you want to work without interruptions? (and then do NOT upgrade every second week).

What's so problematic? It's a clear source. Why do these people upgrade? Because somebody told them to?
C'mon.
They had a WORKING GOOD RIG. So they say.
Now they have a not working system. So they say.
Well... Good riddance, so I say.

"Go back to your terminal?" Yep. I will. Anytime. In fact it's a lifesaver, come to think of it. You prefer clicking your way out of a GUI hell: go ahead. See you later.

And since in all matters GNU/Linux these 'unterminal' people don't --evidently-- know shoe from shinola, I conclude that they in fact DID just jeopardize themselves in order to be 'geek', as ludicrous as this may sound to you (and me).

I'm not even critizing these "ordinary people". I'm just saying that if they don't backup their data they deserve doom.
As prehistoric as any historical truth may sound to you, you gotta learn from your deserved mistakes if you want to evolve into something different than a vista-eggplant or a supine user.
And if you are a supine user, or a linux eggplant, why do you upgrade at all? Stay put and be quiet. Backup everything, and then again.
DO NOT upgrade a working GNU/Linux system if you do not know what you are doing: c'mon: you already got MUCH more than you deserve. Shut up now, you'r just making unnecessary noise.
Why do you annoy people that have all hands full to repair obvious bugs, bugs that you cannot even correctly describe?
Crawl on the floor, stick your various holes with older and unproblematic distributions and shut up.
No offence intended, la va sans dire :-)

em007a
October 20th, 2007, 11:52 PM
As far as I am concerned, it's more than ready. I did a clean install yesterday and transfered my data over today.

I tried the pre-release versions and noticed problems I was not happy with. ALL of them are fixed in this final release.

You can always try another distro. Ubuntu is not for everyone. If your post are that negative and you cannot find it in yourself to politely ask for help, Ubuntu is probably not for you.

wolfen69
October 21st, 2007, 05:20 AM
This simply amazes me: if that's so, it's the Ubuntu team the one who must wait one more month before release. This is a final release, not a beta or RC.

Why? I hate partitions, they waste your disk space and if the OS is good enough, there shouldn't be any issues. Again, not a user responsibility, but the people behind the distro.

I may have missed the red signs and all precaution advise. I just saw a button in my update manager saying an upgrade was available. You click on it and you get your upgrade. There's even no advise to update your previous version first (that advise is buried somewhere on the web, I discovered it later).

Moreover: a clean install every six months? Are you kidding? Isn't this exactly why we're running away from Windowsland?

If Ubuntu is not going to be any more reliable than Microsoft products, this is being a very big waste of time.

if you cant be bothered to spend 20 min every 6 months, then you shouldnt be using it.

-grubby
October 21st, 2007, 05:23 AM
Upgrade to gutsy (if ever) at -say- mid-term between gutsy and hoary

sorry to be picky, but it's "between gutsy and hardy"

sicofante
October 21st, 2007, 07:16 AM
[deleted by sicofante]

sicofante
October 21st, 2007, 07:16 AM
...
You're exactly the very reason why Ubuntu exists. I don't even know what you're doing among "these ordinary people".


if you cant be bothered to spend 20 min every 6 months, then you shouldnt be using it.
It might take 20 minutes for all those who "install distros like most people change their underwear", i.e. for those who have fun with computers (which is quite OK), but it will be a mess for everyone using their computers as a tool. Upgrading is the right path for the rest of us and upgrading is broken in Gutsy.


Ubuntu is not for everyone.
Oh no, that excuse again. :(

brickbat
October 21st, 2007, 03:37 PM
I wonder WHY most people that don't know much about fixing problems by themselves (no offence to the OP intended) are starting threads about the problems they encounter when upgrading to the most recent version of ubuntu.

Why the hell do you upgrade? You want to experiment? (and then -yes- do upgrade as much as you fancy) or you want to work without interruptions? (and then do NOT upgrade every second week). C'mon, chose! Belly in, chin out!

You have a working feisty? Keep it and be happy. Don't fix it if it isn't broken.
Upgrade to gutsy (if ever) at -say- mid-term between gutsy and hoary: february/march 2008.

Or even keep / go back to your older "long term support" edition, the old 6.06, instead.
That's a pretty stable old horse. That's something you won't lose your oh so precious time with, poor dear.

But no. Everyone and his dog are upgrading to gutsy tribe/ gutsy beta / gutsy release 0.0 the very minute it is released, or before.
And then complain that they have problems with proprietary drivers, or even "losing data in their linux partition".

Of course they have such problems: walking blindfolded in a mine camp.
And in fact they should solve such problems by themselves. Experiment, try, find and spread a working solution, instead of pretending one from somebody else.
Or at least die and disappear from Linux usefully: freeing a path for those that follow, exploding unsuspected mines blindly walking on them.

You want no problems? Don't update like geeks if you'r no geek, don't update like nerds if you'r no nerd don't update blindly if your'not blind.


This is my advice to people using Ubuntu long term.

This is what I do. I have 6 system related partitions.

UBUNTU1 (10GB)
UBUNTU2 (10GB)
HOME1 (10GB)
HOME2 (10GB)
SWAP (2GB)

Whenever I want to install a system I just install it to the System I am NOT currently Using. eg. I had Feisty on UBUNTU1 so I did a fresh Install on UBUNTU2. That way I ALWAYS have a fallback system. with a GUI to boot into if something crazy happens. When Hardy Comes out I will install it to UBUNTU1. If Gutsy fails for some reason and I can't fix it, I will overwrite UBUNTU2 BUT I will create a new USER so that I know its not something to do with the user settings storedin hidden files in the Home Folders.

Its true that it takes me about 1/2 a day to get everything the way I like it. but I just love having a fresh clean install. Upgrades are just so full of leftover junk.
I do the same thing with the HOME partitions. I use fresh home partitions and then I only copy over what I need from the old home directories as I need them. That way I minimize the junk buildup.

Keep in mind that I don't experiment with prerelease systems. If I were to decide to I would add a new System and Home partition for experimenting. In this way I never install a system without having a working system to fall back to.

All my other drives and partitions are just data. Documents, Movies, Music, etc. I don't put any of that stuff in my home directories. Home directories are strictly for scratch stuff and whatever the system uses it for.

DonThompson
October 21st, 2007, 06:56 PM
I used to be a techie, now I'm just management. I upgraded because a new Edimax NIC caused the old one to freeze. As it is it was a long process with several failures, but my network diagnostics assured me it was on the Ubuntu end - surprise, surprise with thousands (millions?) sucking up 700 megs at the same time.

Perhaps I should have waited a week or so, but... for me it's running, it's stable, it (finally) allows me my higher screen resolutions and while my direct-in WiFi still doesn't work reliably, it doesn't stop the computer (now wired to a bridge as it always was).

I have suffered far worse at the hands of both MS ("Fixed in SP1") and Apple ("Sorry, you can't go back from here.") and paid them for my pain.

Onesimus
October 21st, 2007, 08:02 PM
It seems slightly strange to be writing to say that I am really impressed with Gutsy in a thread that is entitled 'I'm not impressed'. However, I went for a clean install from scratch. This involved resizing my ext3 and NTFS partitions using the gparted applications - it went fine without a hitch. (I still have Vista on my laptop, it came pre-installed with the laptop - as Feisty was never able to recognise a projector)

My installation did have one slight problem. I burnt the ISO to a CD-RW disk and the installation wasn't able to even load the Kernel. After 5 minutes of loading the kernel it decided to reboot and start over.

I burnt the same ISO to a CD-R disk and it whizzed through the installation process. Don't why that should occur. (I had checked the md5sum for the ISO and that was fine.)

I don't whether this helps those who have had problems with installation ?!?

I am very impressed with Gutsy, and believe it to be ready for release !

Monkus
October 21st, 2007, 10:32 PM
I tried to upgrade with the update manager and X wouldn't start up, so I installed fresh from cd. Wow, the live cd worked perfectly. Wireless (Atheros) and screen resolution (i915 chip, widescreen). I love it. I was smart enought to backup the home directory before I tried any of this and all I had to do was restore that and things are perfect. Now that I am using it I find it to be faster, and smoother working/looking. I'm very happy so far.

em007a
October 22nd, 2007, 02:11 AM
Oh no, that excuse again. :(

It's true, Ubuntu is not for everyone. It sounds like you would be better off to return Ubuntu and get a full refund of the purchase price, and use that money towards an operating system that suits you better. :popcorn:



Obviously, that was a joke... but considering what you paid for Ubuntu, you could find a much more constructive way to post about the problems you are having. There are more than enough people here willing to help you. Unless of course you are only here to complain.

tragen
October 22nd, 2007, 03:01 AM
While I appreciate people's frustrations with problems, it amazes me how often you get someone just stating "this is crap because it failed" essentially and then don't give specifics as to what errors they encountered and what they did to resolve it. Let alone admit to what they had installed on the system (like non-synaptic manager packages, like people that install tons of shareware and wonder why windows isn't working right).

I have had Ubuntu for over a year. Stable, reliable and had two experiences in the last week of it blowing up (horribly) through no fault of ubuntu. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=585825

One was my own fault of uninstalling a main component I shouldn't have (which is detailed in the post) and the other was a power outage right in the middle of the 7.10 upgrade.

And yet both times I was able to recover quickly with a simple commanline entry to redo the system (no clean install needed).

Let's see your windows system do that. :D

I also agree with the prior sentiments of not upgrading if you don't have to...especially the first few days/week of a release. If you do, you accept that you might encounter issues. Every OS has issues and problems for some of the millions of configurations of software/hardware.

What are the odds? You have a 1 in 100 chance ( http://www.livescience.com/environment/050106_odds_of_dying.html ) of dying in a motor vehicle accident....what are the odds of an upgrade/install going bad?

The odds of a bad CD burn, the odds of a network hiccup, the odds that something flaky is going on with hardware?

We have an expectation of it working right and get very frustrated when it doesn't (believe me...that power glitch during the upgrade this morning ticked me off cause I thought I would need to do a clean install...but fortunately I didn't need to).

Let's be realistic about our experiences and our own parts in the play.

Having an upgrade go bad sucks...I have had it happen in Windows, in FreeBSD (obviously with Ubuntu)...some of those experiences were the OS/upgrade/what I had on the machine...some of them environmental and hardware.

But one bad experience does not make an overall trend. I personally dislike Windows because of all the experiences of the instability and breaks I have experienced myself and via others. That ratio of frequency is ballistically higher than anything I have experienced with Unix/Linux.

So vent away with your frustration, but please be constructive in doing so by providing details and keep it in perspective of how many times you have run across the problem/how long you have been running stable etc.

Cheers,
Tragen

jrusso2
October 22nd, 2007, 03:10 AM
Yesterday I upgraded my Edgy Eft to Feisty Fawn, I was using Automatix so I disabled those repos before the upgrade.

It went pretty well no problems, a few things I had custom installed it didn't know what to do with but thats to be expected.

Now in a couple months will try to upgrade this Feisty to Gutsy.

I am not an early adopter, I can wait a bit.

lazyart
October 22nd, 2007, 03:19 AM
Not a whole lot of sympathy for someone who posts only to gripe, never to ask questions. First post, two days later, nothing else?

Can only help those who ask for it.

jso2897
October 22nd, 2007, 03:50 AM
I have three Ubuntu machines, and one is purely for testing. I ran the beta on that, and updated it all the way through to Gutsy final release. It had a small bug, so I did a clean install and it was perfect. Then I updated the other two machines from Fiesty, and they both work perfect too. I always disable restricted drivers and remove compiz and other repositories before updating and then re-install afterward. It helps a lot.:)

sicofante
October 22nd, 2007, 09:50 AM
Unless of course you are only here to complain.


Not a whole lot of sympathy for someone who posts only to gripe, never to ask questions.
U-B-U-N-T-U *** T-E-S-T-I-M-O-N-I-A-L-S *** A-N-D *** E-X-P-E-R-I-E-N-C-E-S *** F-O-R-U-M

:confused:

sicofante
October 22nd, 2007, 09:53 AM
But one bad experience does not make an overall trend.
Do you actually read these forums? Have you seen the flood of bad experiences with Gutsy?

frodon
October 22nd, 2007, 01:51 PM
Do you actually read these forums? Have you seen the flood of bad experiences with Gutsy?This is the same flood than for each previous release, so all is as expected, there's nothing particular for me.
Many users tweak their system or use external repo without knowing what that imply and they got problems, it has been the case for each release. In general users who use only ubuntu repo (or almost only) don't get any issues except some specific wireless regressions.

Moved to recurring discussion forum.

cowkiller
October 22nd, 2007, 03:00 PM
This is the same flood than for each previous release, so all is as expected, there's nothing particular for me.
Many users tweak their system or use external repo without knowing what that imply and they got problems, it has been the case for each release. In general users who use only ubuntu repo (or almost only) don't get any issues except some specific wireless regressions.

Moved to recurring discussion forum.


I have to admit that I dunno how was the previous reaction to former releases, but I'm sure that every single problem gets solved just facing it and dealing with it, and actually, absolutely nothing ever improves just preaching how good the better points are, but detecting and solving the problems.

Most of the answers given in this thread are exactly the same useless than a wrong, bad proposed question. Things like "Windows is worst", or "every OS is unstable and buggy the first days" will just bring more buggy releases in the future.

I consider that Ubuntu pretends to be a desktop user-oriented OS, and this release couldn't achieve it yet. Things like the new Screen and resolution configuration tool doesn't work properly, and that's not because of bad upgrades or whatever alike. I'm not asking for help, so I don't have to give more details, but a common user who doesn't want to get messed with the xorg.conf will feel so lost and disappointed, and that's a fact.

I use gutsy now and works mostly good, and I'm sure that the updates will fix soon the problems I'm having, But I hope that the next release will bring solutions to the former issues, not new and previously fixed errors happening again. Maybe nobody wants to find this kind of opinions constructive, but I think they certainly are.

yachp
October 22nd, 2007, 05:31 PM
As the original poster I thought I would chime in again.

I would like to thank all the posters. Some posts I think are helpful. Others less so.

The reason why I posted the post that I did was after reading through the forums it was apparent that many people were having problems. I don't remember what the numbers were for the poll being done of people having unsolvable problems but it was definitely high.

Currently the poll stands at about about 38% of people having problems they were unable to solve. Of course this doesn't tell us the number of people that actually "borked" their systems as someone put it.

That means that out of every 5 voters, two had unsolvable problems. (Of course, the poll isn't scientific) What kind of world is it where people defend this as being acceptable? Why are people so unable to react to criticism that hardly seems undeserved in a more positive manner. How does something get past the release candidate stage like this? After all, isn't the point of release candidates to eliminate most problems so as to avoid a situation where 2 out of every 5 voters have unsolvable problems.

On another matter, I sent a private message to a poster, asking for a clarification of a point that was made.

He clarified his single sentence point with a two sentence reply which I didn't find terribly satisfying. No ones fault just my reality.

I replied with a request to be directed to someplace where I could read more about what was being suggested. It has been two days and I haven't received a response. It isn't a big deal. People are busy. I understand that. But the reality is I don't know if I am simply being ignored. That reality which may or may not be confirmed after waiting some more doesn't exactly leave me feeling warm and fuzzy.

@Sicofante

OMG you have my sympathies. For the most part I find you points quite rational. I am not saying you are right in everything you say but I find the struggles you are having just to get yourself heard in the forum unfortunate.

frodon
October 22nd, 2007, 05:41 PM
Remember that almost only user with problems are posting here and that a good part of users who had problems have windows made hardware and tweaked system.
Users with successful intal/upgrades have no reason to come here and vote, so the result of the poll don't reflect the reality.
The poll may tell something if you compare it with the same poll from previous release of ubuntu and then you will see that including upgrade/install with solved problems we have the same results than for previous release and even slightly better.

yachp
October 22nd, 2007, 06:05 PM
a good part of users who had problems have windows made hardware and tweaked system.

I do not know if my problems were related to hardware, but given the fact that previous versions of ubuntu worked fine with my hardware isn't it reasonable to assume that future versions would as well?


Users with successful intal/upgrades have no reason to come here and vote, so the result of the poll don't reflect the reality.
The poll may tell something if you compare it with the same poll from previous release of ubuntu and then you will see that including upgrade/install with solved problems we have the same results than for previous release and even slightly better.

Totally agree with you. Why doesn't someone try to carry out a more meaningful poll that would be more representative of all ubuntu users? Certainly something more representative could be done. For instance couldn't a survey of all people registered in this site be done. It still wouldn't be scientific but it certainly would be more meaningful.. That would really solve the problems of people speculating on matters (such as myself) with information that might not be terribly informative.

frodon
October 22nd, 2007, 06:13 PM
I do not know if my problems were related to hardware, but given the fact that previous versions of ubuntu worked fine with my hardware isn't it reasonable to assume that future versions would as well? It depends what, it is a known fact that there's some wireless regression for release between 2 LTS versions and i would add that almost each problem have a solution so if your hardware worked before and don't work with gutsy then it is surely possible to fix your problem.

sicofante
October 23rd, 2007, 12:51 PM
This is the same flood than for each previous release, so all is as expected, there's nothing particular for me.
I hope this is not a trend or a norm. Upgrades should be cleaner and better with every new release, or something is not working right.


Many users tweak their system or use external repo without knowing what that imply and they got problems, it has been the case for each release. In general users who use only ubuntu repo (or almost only) don't get any issues except some specific wireless regressions.
I knew we would come to this point sooner or later, so thanks for letting me point out a very important issue: Ubuntu can't live in a bubble. The Team must understand that, no matter how good they are at compiling collections of software, there will be needs outside the domain of the official Ubuntu repos, and customers using them will only increase as Ubuntu becomes more and more popular (which we all hope it'll just keep happening). Meaning: you can't work just for your repo and must take into account that external applications will be installed. It's much too easy to feel safe only if customers/users get software from your own repo. This must be addressed.


Moved to recurring discussion forum.Well, I hope "testimonials and experiences" are also allowed in this new place, and understood as such.


@Sicofante

OMG you have my sympathies. For the most part I find you points quite rational. I am not saying you are right in everything you say but I find the struggles you are having just to get yourself heard in the forum unfortunate.
My pleasure. :)


Remember that almost only user with problems are posting here and that a good part of users who had problems have windows made hardware and tweaked system.
Users with successful intal/upgrades have no reason to come here and vote, so the result of the poll don't reflect the reality.
I disagree just slightly here. While satisfied users of any OS or appliance or car [or whatever] will usually not go to the internet and say what they feel about a new product they're using, Ubuntu users and fans love to explode in praise for the good things that happen to their computers while using Ubuntu. This is a young movement and there's a lot of excitement going on.

I understand no poll in a forum is scientific or accurate, so I certainly second the proposal of a more serious poll coming from the Ubuntu Team or Canonical itself.

frodon
October 23rd, 2007, 01:00 PM
I hope this is not a trend or a norm. Upgrades should be cleaner and better with every new release, or something is not working right.
All is working, it is just that tweaked systems don't play well with upgrades, it has always been the case and will always be.
If you learn how to tweak your system you should learn as well how to fix updates errors due to tweaked system. So if you know how to compile software you should know how to fix your system, if you don't just stick with ubuntu repos.

You miss a package in the repo ?, then fill a launchpad request, if you don't do this then don't blame ubuntu repos for not having the package your looking for.

sicofante
October 23rd, 2007, 03:24 PM
That depends entirely on what you mean by "tweak". I can install a deb from the web exactly as I would do in a Windows system with an ordinary installer. Closed source apps like Picasa or Google Earth aren't in the repos either. Does all that apply? If the one and only way of being reasonably confident that I can upgrade my system with official releases is by using and installing software present in the official Ubuntu repository only, then there's definitely something not working right here.

Of course, someone compiling from source or editing config files or any other advanced task is an advanced user and s/he won't be here complaining about a broken upgrade.

frodon
October 23rd, 2007, 03:29 PM
Of course, someone compiling from source or editing config files or any other advanced task is an advanced user and s/he won't be here complaining about a broken upgrade.You're wrong here, most of posts we got these days are from this user profile.
User just grab some post here saying things like " edit this file with ...", "just use latest nvidia drivers" , "disable this module ...", "fill your fstab with ..." and so on and they don't understand what are the drawbacks so when they are faced to them they blame ubuntu. This is the real problem for me, getting true knowledge when willing to tweak something is the only way to go IMO.