The Need for Windows Mobile Support

[plinydogg]

There are a fair amount of people (me included) who want to switch over to Ubuntu as their primary OS but who can't because of the lack of support for Windows Mobile devices.

I've written a blog article about this here that received a healthy dose of responses:

http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=27&title=a_new_adventure_windows_mobile_and_ubunt&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

Is there any hope for increased support? Currently, it seems that the developers favor PalmOS more than Windows Mobile. I don't' know what the technical reasons are for this but from a consumer standpoint it seems like a mistake. The heyday of PalmOS has passed and its utility has been declining for a while.

IMHO, ideally an Ubuntu-Windows Mobile connection would offer several things:

(1) The ability to sync Pocket Outlook data (the stuff contained on the Windows Mobile device) with Evolution, Thunderbird/Sunbird, or something similar.

(2) Pass through Internet access, which allows Internet-dependent programs on the WM device (weather programs, RSS readers, etc.) to update when the device is connected to the computer.

(3) The ability to install Windows Mobile programs from Ubuntu

I know it's a tall order but is there any hope? If not, does anyone know of any distros that do offer such support?

Thanks in advance,

Plinydogg

[bethaviv]

I would love this too. But I think it'll be really hard to do. It might end up being something like the Zune situation...

[plinydogg]

I've heard that it will be difficult too. The most often cited limitation I've heard is that this sort of thing requires activesync. For example, there's a great Windows program called BirdieSync that allows one to sync Pocket Outlook data with Thunderbird/Sunbird data. When someone asked whether a Linux version would be possible, the response was that it would be difficult because BirdieSync still relies on ActiveSync.

However, the fact that it is technically possible to sync Evolution with Windows Mobile using programs that are IMHO somewhat difficult to configure (e.g., SynCE, etc.) means that it appears to at least be technically possible.

What's the Zune situation?

[bethaviv]

I did a little research on it last night (it had been a while since I looked up on it) and from what I've read the Zune requires a "handshake" from the Zune software. We're able to view and delete files (it sees the hard drive), but not add or synch.

[sc30317]

Definitely need windows Mobile support! Been trying to sync my WM5 Smartphone FOR-EV-ER

[puccaso]

THIS IS THE ONE THING
THAT FORCES ME TO KEEP WINDOWS RUNNING ON MY SYSTEM..

i installed xp on virtualbox and even doesnt work on that propper..

[olskar]

Im sure you to have found the synce project (http://www.synce.org/index.php/SynCE-Wiki), the question is if it is still being developed?

Without almost any effort I managed to easily browse and edit files on my Axim X51. I also could install cabfiles.

The problems that remain is sync and cab-files packed in exefiles.

The problem with sync can be solved by syncing the evolution calender with scheduleworld.com and sync scheduleworld with you Windows Mobile Device with the help of funambol.

[puccaso]

i have the new htc tilt or in england, the mda vario 3

this has a internet-sharing facility..

i'd like to be able to connect my phone via usb
and log on to the net via the fast 3g internet connection i get on my contact.

networkmanager recognises the PHONE but not when INTERNET SHARING is active..

is there a way to make networkmanager understand its basically a "hub" and try to connect to the internet via the phone?



we really do need gooooood windows mobile support!

[Jc2k]

Hello guys

I'm one of the Conduit developers (www.conduit-project.org) and also a contributor to SynCE.

SynCE is unusual in that its not dead, but theres not really enough man power to make a roadmap that we can stick to. Its people scratching specific itches as they need to.

All of the things you ask for are already possible, they are just a little hard for mortals. This is an unfortunate side effect of itch driven development, it works enough for the scratchers.

Luckily its on Conduits radar to support these devices so i know have a few SynCE itches to scratch.

What i'd ask is that people take specific support issues to SynCE rather than Ubuntu. For example, puccaso asks about internet sharing. I know (as I wrote the patch) that SynCE has a driver called usb-rndis-lite that supports Internet Sharing mode. When that version of the driver is installed, Network Manager will just detect your phone and work. I don't have a flashy 3g connection, but i can still browse the internet using my phone as a gateway.

The best place for Linux+Windows Mobile help is the SynCE mailing list or SynCE IRC. My account (Jc2k) and others are online 24/7 so we will get your questions. Just log on to IRC, ask and idle till someone gets back.

Synce is capable of syncing directly to Evolution. I'm somewhat fearful of sites like scheduleworld.com, so its a key goal to make Evolution <--> Synce easy in time for 8.04.

The only other thing to add is that i'll hopefully I will be demonstrating the fruits of my easyfication work at LinuxConf AU in Jan...

[bethaviv]

Nice.. good to hear this... I have a WM phone now and my new phone thing happens in April and I am looking into getting the Tilt

[Zdravko]

What phone do I need to have in order to run Ubuntu on it?

[snake444]

there is annoying bug with nokia6288 that ubuntu need to fix
i can transfer data to the mobile and recieve data but photos that i photoed with the camera of the phone cannot be transfered to the computer
and it is very annoying so i think they need to fix this bug

and also maybe someone can write app for ubuntu that simmilar to nokia pc suite
so the sync and file transfer will work wel

[plinydogg]

Zdravko: I have no idea what sort of phone will work with Ubuntu. Sorry :(

[Turgon]

Ubuntu is lacking in mobile support in general and there should be a thread about mobile support in general (which there actually is in the idea part of the forum).

NIce to see one of the conduit developers here since conduit seems to be the future syncronization manager for gnome (and passably ubuntu).

So Jc2k, could you give us an update on how far you have gotten with the mobile support in conduit and is it realistic to have it for hardy?

[plinydogg]

Wow, I somehow missed Jc2k's post. Good stuff!

[Jc2k]

Basically we are going to be working with the opensync guys closely on this. The only devices we support "natively" are iPods and N800 right now, where as they have support for SyncML and Windows Mobile. We are both open source, so we don't really want to duplicate efforts!

Here is the current URL for the opensync support code:

http://www.conduit-project.org/browser/trunk/conduit/modules/OpensyncModule.py

It still needs work but allows opensync plugins to work with Conduit, thus getting us support for a wide range of devices. Unfortunately theres no HAL integration with opensync, and its very hard to ask opensync exactly what plugins are available (in a way that makes sense for how integrated we want this to be). This means i'm having to setup HAL stuff for these devices as well as write a wrapper class in Conduit for each opensync plugin.

The HAL stuff and Conduit wrapping are the easy bits and i will have that done inside November no problem. But theres quite a lot of polish needed on the SyncML and SynCE front. For example, we need magic to automatically initiate ppp connections. In SynCE we need magic to initiate the SyncEngine and odccm daemons (on top of setting up ppp / rndis). This ideally all needs to be managed so things start and stop as devices are hotplugged.

Hope to be able to show this at Linux Conf AU (GNOME mini-conf).

[Turgon]

Thanks for the update Jc2k. Nice to know that you are having some progression.

Another question: I'm quite interested in contributing in you work, but I really don't have much programming knowlege (yet), but is there anything that I or others could do to help you (besides programming)?

[Jc2k]

Sure. Join the conduit mailing list, hang out in the conduit IRC channel. Test it, play with it, file bug reports and wishlist tickets too.

[gweaver]

I just want to add a +1 to general mobile phone sync software in Ubuntu.

I know it will be a long hard slog for the conduit and opensync developers, but it is much needed. Address book sync (Sony Ericsson K510i to Thunderbird) is the only thing that I have to regularly boot into Windows for.

I am really looking forward to the day when my phone reliably syncs address book, email, texts and calendar with Thunderbird + Lightning.

I wonder if you can get some of the OpenMoko guys involved in Conduit/OpenSync? I'm sure they will be very keen to work from the device direction.

I also think a gnome GUI for Conduit/OpenSync might really catalyse further plugin development.

[puccaso]

without derailing this thread
the same way google got involved with wine to make their piccasa work on linux

there are a few activesync alternatives - wouldnt these guys want to get involved?

has anyone even tried activesync on wine

[gweaver]

Ewww, WINE, yuck.

Picasa for Linux is a real abortion, please don't let us have any more WINE based Linux apps. Fair enough use WINE for running Windows apps, but create apps for WINE - NOOOOO!

Surely running ActiveSync under WINE would be harder than reverse engineering the protocols used? Or are they closed source? Maybe the latest EU ruling will mean that Microsoft have to make the ActiveSync developer documentation available.

[plinydogg]

Personally, I wouldn't mind using WINE if it would allow me to sync my data with my WM device and would allow my device to connect the Internet (to update weather program, RSS reader, etc.).

[brickbat]

i started that post in the ideas section. this problem isnt just wm6, its all mobiles. I think its awesome that conduit and opensync and synce are working together.

i have a nokia N73 and i've heard that it uses syncml too. i would SO love to be able to sync it with thunderbird/sunbird

[Jc2k]

Personally I consider the notion of getting ActiveSync to run on WINE a complete and utter no-brainer. It totally goes against the ideals of opensync and conduit, and not something I would consider for a second. I understand why though. A lot of people think "I want it to work NOW", and so then bodging wine to allow that seems like a good idea. The thing is, the conduit and opensync people want it to work WELL.

An example. If we have ActiveSync for WM5 devices, how do we support the N95? Are we going to have different sync programs for each and every device? That will ultimately lead to situations where WM5 can sync to Evolution, and N95 to Thunderbird. But not the other way around. This can't be allowed to happen.

The process of syncing a WM5 device is pretty well understood right now. We aren't wasting time reversing things, that was done many months ago by one of the same guys who was involved to some degree in the recent ipod hackery.

The problem we have now is making it easy... I'm reasonably sure that plinydogg's needs could be met today, but damn would it be a pain to use.

@gweaver, Not sure I get your point about the GUI... Conduit ships with a GNOME GUI...

[gweaver]

@gweaver, Not sure I get your point about the GUI... Conduit ships with a GNOME GUI...

My apologies...

[psychicist]

I have a Dell Axim X3 running Windows Mobile 2003 and I have never been able to get it to work with SynCE or any other synchronisation software. The funny thing is it doesn't even work with an open wireless network and as such it's useless. I would be much more interested in getting rid of the Windows Mobile operating system and replacing it with a standards based Linux distribution, which would be much easier to support.

[gweaver]

I would be much more interested in getting rid of the Windows Mobile operating system and replacing it with a standards based Linux distribution, which would be much easier to support.

OpenMoko anyone?
Or Ubuntu Mobile once it really gets underway.

See http://www.openmoko.com for more info on OpenMoko (or http://www.openmoko.org for the developer site).
Should make life easier for synchronisation software developers :)

I for one hope that when the time comes to replace my lowly Sony Ericsson phone I'll be able to replace it with one that runs an open source operating system.

[Jc2k]

OpenMoko anyone?
Or Ubuntu Mobile once it really gets underway.

See http://www.openmoko.com for more info on OpenMoko (or http://www.openmoko.org for the developer site).
Should make life easier for synchronisation software developers :)

I for one hope that when the time comes to replace my lowly Sony Ericsson phone I'll be able to replace it with one that runs an open source operating system.

Indeed. With the N800, and hopefully the moko, we can actually make them run a subset of Conduit. Not only does that let them function as slaves but as masters too. Your device will be able to sync directly to GoogleCalendar for example.

I'm hoping to port to Windows Mobile too. Though that won't be quite as sexy owing to lack of GNOME infrastructure.

[jimisdead]

Installing programs isn't too hard. Just install Activesync in wine, then run the program installer exe. They've all installed properly for me, then they just say they're waiting until the next time I connect my device (like in windows). Then go into your ~/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/Activesync/ (or wherever you keep it) and copy the program specific CAB file to your device via SD card, or opensync.

I run WM6 at the moment, I got sync/internet/everything working with WM2003 but gave up because of corruption, the all round difficulty of it, and the fact I had to redo it all whenever anything tiny got upgraded. Now I'm just waiting for openmoko to mature so I can ditch windows mobile.

[de_valentin]

I agree i have spend many hours trying to get my mda vario2 with synce and the likes but i've never even gotten to the point where my device was regognised. I just installed Vbox and i hope that it will give me 'a' way to sync even if it still is in xp.

That would be my wish for heron - mobile device support

[desertboy]

I would gladly throw my HTC made orange M3100 in the bin if I could get an equivalent Linux based mobile phone/pda. My worst problem isn't syncing (I can do that at work) it's my mobile has an epileptic fit every time I connect it to linux for charging. (It doesn't register incoming calls properly, takes seconds to respond to clicks and doesn't update the time) If I could just get it to work while charging I would be a happy man.

[plinydogg]

Not to be a naysayer here but I for one would be very reluctant to use a mobile OS other than Windows Mobile. The reason is simple: there are too many fantastic applications available for Windows Mobile devices (I blog about them on my blog: http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=27 ).

I'll tell you right now unequivocally: I will never use PalmOS. I would consider switching to a mobile linux OS but only after FANTASTIC programs became available for it.

And as far as the efforts to create a way to sync Windows Mobile to Sunbird/Thunderbird and/or Evolution go, keep up the good work coders! It'll be worth the wait :)

[puccaso]

activesync with a wine - a no brainer.. i can buy that
but because its such a taboo subject, it forces me to keep windows on my system.

i have an sd slot, and i have a sd/microsd adapter, so i can go through the process removing it from the phone, finding the adapter, pluging it in, copying the files, unmounting safetly *yawn* putting it back into the phone

yea, thats diffiicult...
would i give up that effort to get a "temporary" solution to get activesync working..

people wanted to get beryl working on fgrx, there were many make-shift temporary hacks u could do, but now its out and working badly, but its definatly out and gonna improve..

the fact is, heron is months away, but i have my mobile mda vario 3 (tytn2) now.. what do i do? keep windows on my system, unfortunatly i must.

i even tried the vbox option, although it recognises the phone and stuff - it doesnt sync.. theres some other problem with it.. probably because ubuntu doesnt know how to tell vbox what the device its sharing actually is..

yes, we need a fullproof, future-proof feature allowing all mobile users to sync their mobiles. but its not going to happen 2morrow.. so what can we do, to just it working 2morrow?

[Jc2k]

If your not afraid of hard work until we can make it easy and solid for you then its quite simple.

http://www.synce.org/index.php/Windows_Mobile_2005_Support

This has supported syncing your device for the best part of a year, maybe longer. Right now it just needs love to make it easier to use, more polish and stuff.

If it doesn't work, report it! Someone wanted support for getting on the internet on their laptop through their phone 3g. They asked about it on #synce. They got a patch within a day. It's not always that quick, but we've seen 95% of the problems before.

[happybrick]

I tried for two days to get Synce up and running and hit obstacles at every step. In the end I felt like a complete idiot. I followed the instructions on Synce, searched forums but could find nothing to get it working. Once I've got over the frustration I will get back to it and I will contact the Synce team about the problems and hopefully get it all resolved.

Meanwhile, I found a free Java program that will sync with Thunderbird - http://www.finchsync.com/ It's not perfect, and it's not Evolution, but it's better than forking out however much they charge for Outlook these days.

[Jc2k]

Take comfort in the fact that SynCE is perhaps the hardest thing you will ever have to install. It's not something I ever get to work first time, and i'm a contributor.

IRC (#synce) is the best place to go for help, though right now most help calls are fielded by myself - this means you really need to head in there between 8.30pm and 10.30pm GMT to get my full attention.

[3zero2]

ok, so this is getting interesting.

i own an eten x500 with WM6. Currently I have to boot in windows in order to sync and update weather forecasts etc. I tried to take a look at synce but the tutorials I found were to difficult for my ubuntu level.

is there an easy way for me to sync in Ubuntu? Can conduit help in its current state or not yet?

[Jc2k]

Not yet. Conduit's OpenSync support isn''t quite ready for users. And relies on alpha version of opensync.

When I get time I will document a version of the synce setup involve an apt repository - should be a bit easier...

[ElMargaro]

Hello Jc2k,
Could you please let me know what the best synce mailing list to post my questions are?

Thank you very much,

[eoghanmurray]

Yeah, +1 for this, really needed feature. I have 7 PDAs dating from 1997 (latest of which is a HTC Touch [*drool*]) and it would be cool to be able to sync etc. Also, what about extending the Ubuntu Mobile idea onto ARM Pocket PC devices?

[viking777]

And another vote for it.

I have tried all the so called solutions Raki, syce, wine (usb connections are the problem there) and the only thing that works for me is installing xp in virtualbox then I have a full connection with my handheld device, nothing else worked.

[Tux.Ice]

Lets get something straight
linux is linux
and windows is windows

linux should NOT include support for windows software the ubuntu pledge is to keep software FREE windows software is NOT FREE. mods do not include windows mobile in ubuntu

[twistedtwig]

that seems a bit short sighted... "we should never get involved in anything that is not free"... fine make linux free.. I love that... I love open source.. but I also love many none free apps. I don't see why there should not be connections made from free and none free apps.. (in both directions)... and yes it involves a lot of people and a lot of time to do some for some projects but if people can and want to put the time in then that rocks.

I am all for support for cross OS support.

/mans hugs to all

[puccaso]

+1

to list a few,

wine
w32codecs
ndiswrapper
ntfs-config
ntfs3g

[Jc2k]

Hello Jc2k,
Could you please let me know what the best synce mailing list to post my questions are?

Thank you very much,

Hi

You might want to try:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/synce-users

Or if you go on to the #synce IRC room on irc.freenode.net then I am that most waking hours (GMT).

[Amon_Re]

I've been trying since 2003 to get my PDA to sync perfectly with Evolution, sofar it's been a rather nightmarish trip, but seeing this activity on the subject again makes me happy, maybe it'll work perfectly soon! Woohoo!

In the meanwhile, i'd like to get back to testing the latest versions of synce, but i have no idea how to compile synce & create a deb file (to keep it easy to clean up afterwards, the compiling itself isn't a problem) so some pointers towards building .debs is appreciated.

I'll be keeping a very close eye on this, and i'll be sure to run conduit through it's paces as soon as i have some time to spare, this project is sorely needed and deserves all the help it can get

[Jc2k]

Amon_Re, your situation is probably going to get worse before it gets better... There is no dev around that either has a WM2003 or the time. To repeat, we only seem to have WM5 and above devices and I know of no one able to sync WM2003...

I hope to find time to address this, but until someone is paying me to do sync its about 15th on my list of things to do...

[Amon_Re]

Amon_Re, your situation is probably going to get worse before it gets better... There is no dev around that either has a WM2003 or the time. To repeat, we only seem to have WM5 and above devices and I know of no one able to sync WM2003...

I hope to find time to address this, but until someone is paying me to do sync its about 15th on my list of things to do...

I got 50$ on my paypal :lolflag: Maybe i should go ahead and hack away at it myself, i suppose it's C or C++ stuff, it's been ages but i should be able to figure it out eventually

[antoniuk]

I sure hope something gets going on this. I am having to shelf my ubuntu disk and pop in my xp because this is not working and I have to have my phone as a wireless tether.

To the post above about linux is linux, that kind of short sighted behavior is what isholding back linux from destroying windows and mac. Until more people like you change your mind, people like me are going to be forced to use inferior operating systems to support our lifestyles.

I'll check back in a few months and hopefully there will be something

[cdmdotnet]

Coming from a slightly different perspective, I'm not a python developer, so I can't much help develop tools and apps for linux, but what I can do is develop tools for the m$ dot net frameworks - compact framework included.

That bit said, I have been part of a project to make an online backup service for smart phones, PDA's Pocket PC's etc.

I've also just been told I have permission to diversify the project with a new purpose, A platform indepent set of tools to backup , or sync these mobile devies with email and scheduling tools like Outlook, evolution etc.
This includes an open service / framework.

At the moment we have a proto-type tool that will allow a device running Windows CE 4.2 ( aka Windows Mobile 2003 ) backup and restore contacts to our centralised server. While not much right now, we have clear objectives to add tasks / notes / appointments to this process, and build a version for Windows CE 5 ( aka Windows Mobile 2005 ) which we expect will work on Windows Mobile 6.

What we are now needing is some help from people who know how to write tools for linux , nokia's symbian OS and Palms OS.

We see this as a much easier task, everyone / every tool using the same central service / framework to store and retreive the data instead of everyone doing something different. This will also make future phones easier to support.

We're also quietly intalks with the two major celluar networks here in New Zealand decussing how we can impliment some form of service at the point of sale for new mobile phones. IE you don't have to go home and play around for hours getting your new phone to talk to your PC, a restore is done in-store.

We're hoping to show early next year to these two network carriers / providers that there is a definate desire by the general public for a simple way to back, restore and sync your mobile devices with any platform and any device without a ton of different tools.

[plinydogg]

Sounds like an interesting cdmdotnet and best of luck with it. However, some of us will never be comfortable with storing or otherwise filtering our data through a remote server. I, for example, am an attorney and am consequently subject to strict rules of confidentiality and will never consider syncing my information thorugh any online mechanism for security reasons. That's why I crave direct PC-to-PDA sync support so badly.

[possmann]

The inability to sync between Evolution (Ubuntu) and my Windows Mobile 6 (HTC 6800) device is THE thing that is holding me back from going Ubuntu/Linux - period...

[viking09]

The inability to sync between Evolution (Ubuntu) and my Windows Mobile 6 (HTC 6800) device is THE thing that is holding me back from going Ubuntu/Linux - period...

Meetoo. I have tossed one MSXP already and once Evolution and a decent mp3 manager can synchronise with NooB ease, my wife's machine will go Ubuntu as well. Go team, go team. If you need a tester, let me know.

[kansei]

The inability to sync between Evolution (Ubuntu) and my Windows Mobile 6 (HTC 6800) device is THE thing that is holding me back from going Ubuntu/Linux - period...

I'm glad all my stuff is synced with the exchange server at school, my only personal e-mail on the phone is gmail. It would suck to have to use windows for that crap.

There are free online exchange servers out there that you could sync your stuff with. It's so much nicer using push and having instant updates than syncing when you have time to.

[beartard]

A few very slight workarounds to some concerns mentioned here are:

WM5Storage: an application for the smartphone that turns your phone into a slow, USB 1.0 card reader. It eliminates having to remove the microSD card to get files from your linux box. When you hit "activate" inside the app, (k)Ubuntu mounts the card like normal. It's not recommended, but it can also mount the phone's internal filesystem. Definitely a plus if you customize homescreens. It's such a pain to do in gimp and a text editor without the Windows tools made for it.

OggSync: an application that syncs a calendar at google.com with your phone. It works for me as I don't manage personal appointments much with my laptop or an online service, but I like having all-day events from national and religious calendars displayed on my homescreen.

Export Contacts: Exports your contact list, including associated pictures and individual ringtones, to either an HTML or an XML file.

All of these are freeware and available on the usual smartphone freeware sites. While not being anything resembling a be-all-end-all for using Linux with Windows Mobile, they're tools that can take some of the pain from the clash.

[excogitation]

Well ... the time it took writing all those posts... someone could have easily written a howto.

Earlier today I was using the search for like 10 minutes and after 20 minutes
of fiddling around suddenly the contacts and tasks and birthdays from my
XDA Mini (HTC Magician) which runs Windows Mobile 2003SE syncs with Evolution through Multisync/SynCE

I'd start here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=136257&highlight=multisync+synce)

[caryb]

Ok my perspective, these are phones NOT Windows devices! The O/S on the device is irrelevant the general mass who want to sync & backup there device. This is not unreasonable to expect if what we are pushing is a alternative to Windows O/S. It is really annoying to patch "hab-dab" apps to achieve an outcome. I personally don"t mind patching apps together to achieve an outcome but magazines push *buntu as a alternative to Windows & as such we should be trying to put the extra spit & polish to make this as seamless transition as possible.


Sorry for the rant.


Cary

[willfe]

Ok my perspective, these are phones NOT Windows devices! The O/S on the device is irrelevant the general mass who want to sync & backup there device. This is not unreasonable to expect if what we are pushing is a alternative to Windows O/S. It is really annoying to patch "hab-dab" apps to achieve an outcome. I personally don"t mind patching apps together to achieve an outcome but magazines push *buntu as a alternative to Windows & as such we should be trying to put the extra spit & polish to make this as seamless transition as possible.


Sorry for the rant.


Cary

These phones most certainly *are* Windows devices -- the OS in their firmware calls itself "Windows Mobile." It's written and published by Microsoft. It is closed-source, proprietary, and frustratingly undocumented. That's got "Windows" written *all over it*.

Blasting magazines for "pushing *buntu as a alternative to Windows" and Ubuntu (and friends) doesn't make sense in this case -- go take your frustrations and attitude to Microsoft headquarters in Seattle, Washington, and scold them good and proper for not developing documentation or reference material to let *other* platforms interoperate with theirs.

Then again, plug a WM6 Smartphone into Windows Vista and there's a good chance you'll also have trouble, so it seems they can't even get it right *on their own platform*.

There is a specific reason this stuff doesn't just "magically work" on Linux (or on Windows, for that matter). When you plug your phone or your handheld into that USB port, the OS has to know what the hell it's supposed to *do* with it. These damned WM6 phones (I have one, too, and I eagerly await the release of some kind of tool that can talk to it -- even if it's just dumping files, that'd make me happy) are closed up tight. They don't expose serial ports. They don't offer up anything even *resembling* a standard service or device of any kind when they connect via USB. Amusingly, it is actually easier to use my phone as an internet connection *over Bluetooth* on Linux than it is to try to get it to work over USB. Over Bluetooth, it just becomes a network device, and it just works. USB? No chance.

Hence a group of people actually have to sit there, with a real device, and send stuff to it at random until they get a response. They actually have to *reverse engineer* the underlying protocol, *then* figure out how to make it do anything useful.

I understand your frustration with this, but your rant is misplaced. As far as "patching apps together" -- that's the Unix way. It's very automated (very well, I might add) in Ubuntu, but that's how Unix works -- a pile of little tools, all good at their job, and all very good at *stepping out of the way* when they're done with their part of a task.

[syxbit]

i have a WM6.1 device (HTC TITAN) and am fed up.
i'm gonna switch to android the firt chance i get.
and i bet that'll be much better supported :)

[caryb]

Sorry If there was confusion about my rant, I have a Jasjam & a palm treo 750 both with WM6, my reference to these being brand agnostic was to the fact that Mr Joe Public connects his phone (his care factor to O/S is probably minimal) & expects it to auomajicily connect. I understand the closed source nature of Microsoft, I'm in the middle of a mass migration at work off Microsoft. I am daily frustrated with the challenges of interfacing Windows apps in a Linux environment. I hold hope that 1 day *buntu mobile will rescue me from this junk.



Cary