Why doesnt ubuntu just make it's own desktop environment?

[notna01]

Why doesnt ubuntu just make it's own desktop environment?
Because gnome and kde aint gonna make ubuntu any more popular....
You should try and build your own environment. One thats easy to modify, but still nice on the eye...

[wedderburn]

because gnome and kde have had more than 5 years to get where they are, they are stable and ready for the average user.

[23meg]

because gnome and kde have had more than 5 years to get where they are

GNOME actually just celebrated its 10th birthday.

You should try and build your own environment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Invented_Here

[gruvsyco]

And KDE is even older. Geez, I can remember linux life before either :(

[FredB]

And KDE is even older. Geez, I can remember linux life before either :(

KDE is something like 11 years old. I remember using KDE 0.12 back in 1997.

Gnome was launched because of QT license at that time. And Gnome is now 10 years old.

Xfce ? Born in 1997... 10 years old too.

So, why bothering ?

[wedderburn]

Point is both kde and gnome are very mature products

[FredB]

Point is both kde and gnome are very mature products

Indeed. And they're working without a lot of problems. So, why not use it ?

Same goes for xfce, of course.

[asjdfwejqrfjcvm msz34rq33]

Why doesnt ubuntu just make it's own desktop environment?
Because gnome and kde aint gonna make ubuntu any more popular....
You should try and build your own environment. One thats easy to modify, but still nice on the eye...It would take an extreamly long time to code another DE and make it stable.

Besides, what's so wrong with GNOME and KDE?

*gets ready for gnome, kde flamewar. :popcorn:

[dfreer]

Why pour the effort into making an entirely new DE, when you could improve on existing ones?

[elanthis]

What would a new DE offer?

You need a design before starting a project. You need a goal. "Be better than GNOME and KDE" is not a goal; it's not even a sub-goal. It's entirely subjective and unmeasurable.

Do you want light-weight? Go for ROX or XFCE. Full-featured? KDE. Simplistic? GNOME. NeXT/OSX-like? GNUStep. Something totally alien and weird? There are tons of experimental DEs around.

[ankursethi]

Most importantly, GNOME and KDE both have mature, stable and well supported API's that would take 5 to 10 to recreate from scratch with manpower equaling that of the commercial software vendors.

If Ubuntu tries to build it's own DE, it'll probably end up like Vista.

[talkingwires]

I just wanted to add to what others have alread said...

The Ubuntu developers are not creating an OS from scratch. Like any other Linux distro, they build off the foundations of previous projects, carefully picking and choosing packages that are stable or applying bug fixes from new versions while avoiding new (and possibly buggy) features in order to meet a release schedule.

Sure, they create some new apps and tools (Usplash, Launchpad, Upstart) and work with other projects to stabilize their bleed-edge features (XRandr, Gnome's new monitor setup tool) or help triage a projects bugs (Launchpad now integrates with other projects bug tracking tools). But if you want to describe Ubuntu (or any other Linux [or OSS, like BSD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD)] distro) in the simplest of terms, it is a collection of other's hard work with some polish. I know that description doesn't do justice to the hard work of the developers, but work with me here.

Ubuntu is an excellent Operating System, granted, but creating a new Desktop Environment (DE) is out of the question. It basically boils down to a combination of the OSS development model and a lack of resources. Creating a new DE would require hundreds of thousands of man-hours by skilled professionals. Ubuntu has many gifted people working on the project, sure, but Canonical is a small company that is essentially giving their product away for free. Gnome and KDE each have hundreds of contributers from dozens of distros and individuals all working to better OSS. Some of these people are paid for their efforts, most are not. To take on a project like a new DE, that would be built specifically for one distro and one company would require enormous resources. Linux hasn't even hit 3% of the desktop market yet, and you're suggesting that they reinvent the wheel.

Changing gears: why not make a post (or bug report) about what bugs you most about Gnome? Perhaps you suggestions will be featured in Hardy?


[Bonus Tangent: I'm trying SuSE 10.3 and KDE on my desktop after running Ubuntu there for three continuous years. Amarok was what made me want to switch, as it's prowess (and all Gnome media players' inadequacies) suggested that KDE was a DE that suited me. Sure, Amarok's UI is terrible. Want to sort your collection by Album or Genre? Try to find an icon buried among six other icons in the top panel of a another panel nested between the control panel, the playlist, and the music control panel!) After using SuSE extensively, I am reaching the conclusion that KDE was not designed for human consumption. First example that pops into my head: A pop up says system updates are available. Sure, let's install them. Twenty minutes later, I notice the tiny icon that looks like the eight others in the taskbar is still red. Oh, SuSE is waiting for my SU password, but the window for the input popped up behind my dozens of other windows.

That said, I am eagerly awaiting KDE 4, as the developers are emphasizing HIG like Gnome does. I just wish the KDE betas were like every other beta in the world in that they are buggy but feature complete and usable. Hey, think different!]

[paulle]

i believe too, 3 DE is more than sufficient. kde, gnome and xfce and windowmanagers like openbox and fluxbox.
there is a destop for every need and every flavour.

[Zdravko]

Why doesnt ubuntu just make it's own desktop environment?
Because gnome and kde aint gonna make ubuntu any more popular....
You should try and build your own environment. One thats easy to modify, but still nice on the eye...
I like GNOME. No reason to change it yet.

[bethaviv]

If Ubuntu tries to build it's own DE, it'll probably end up like Vista.

That's kind of harsh.....

[Twintop]

If Ubuntu tries to build it's own DE, it'll probably end up like Vista.


All the more reason to just stick with Gnome. No dev deserves to bear the weight of that on their shoulders!

[justin whitaker]

All the more reason to just stick with Gnome. No dev deserves to bear the weight of that on their shoulders!

Heh.

Is it bad to say I actually like the way Vista looks?

[bethaviv]

Lol.. looks and how it performs are different =)

You're okay.

[Zdravko]

Heh.

Is it bad to say I actually like the way Vista looks?
Yes, it is very bad to say so. Go to church and pray for mercy.

[LaRoza]

In anticipation of a possible KDE/GNOME flamewar, I would like to say Fluxbox is better than either :D.

[Zdravko]

LaRoza (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=266234), I haven't used that thing too.

[Paul820]

I like gnome, it's a very stable DE. Designing and buiding a new DE from scratch would take a LOT of work and coding. Look how long it has taken gnome to get where it is, it would be like going back in time and starting from scratch. There is no point doing that when what we have is good, just keep adding onto what we have to make it better. It's not even an option anyway, it's just too big for a new project when there are more important things to think about doing in ubuntu.

[Zdravko]

Paul820 (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=284002), well said.

[Twintop]

Is it bad to say I actually like the way Vista looks?


Not at all. Vista has a certain aesthetic appeal to it and is flashy and clean in general (thus why people want things like Compiz-Fusion and Beryl to work). I was talking more about menus/options/finding settings and Vista as a whole. :-D

[Zdravko]

I wonder why people give out so much money for trash...

[Paul820]

I don't know, i for one would never buy it. I can understand ubuntu shipping with one or two things a little buggy, but microsoft put out that OS for sale for hundreds of £'s/$'s and it has so many things wrong with it. They were thinking they could get away with it being like that and let the public put up with it. Well, that idea backfired.
6 billion dollars on an OS that nobody wants, what a waste.... #-o

[bethaviv]

I wonder why people give out so much money for trash...

Not to be off topic, but these forums aren't for bashing other OS's... say why you don't like it or what's wrong with it, but don't just say "Microsoft sucks" or "Microsoft is trash".

[jespdj]

Why doesnt ubuntu just make it's own desktop environment?
Because gnome and kde aint gonna make ubuntu any more popular....
You should try and build your own environment. One thats easy to modify, but still nice on the eye...
Why do you want an entirely new desktop environment? Gnome and KDE both work really well.

Why do you think Gnome and KDE ain't gonna make Ubuntu any more popular? Is it just because they do not look and feel exactly the same as Windows? Ubuntu is not, will never be and should not become a Windows clone.

[Paul820]

Ubuntu is not, will never be and should not become a Windows clone. =D> Well said jespdj

[bruce89]

If you find GNOME too difficult, there's something wrong with you.

[ronacc]

creating an "new" de/wm would be a massive waste of time and talent , there are already many to choose from with KDE and Gnome being the most used ,( I do not slight XFCE , ROX , ICE and others , KDE and Gnome are the most used). They are both very customiseable to suit various tastes and have many years of refinement . They both function very well. Reinventing the wheel yet again would draw off talent that could be put to more productive use elsewhere , for instance resolving some of the bugs that have been around through many iterations of Ubuntu and perhaps improving interoperability of apps between already existing de/wm's , let us draw on each others strength's as in a good marriage rather than poking at eachothers weaknesses like we were seaking a divorce. While a range of choices is good, too many "choices" lead to fragmentation and loss of focus.

[Kow]

I think a lot of people do not realize just how much work it would take to make a feature-filled desktop environment (requirement for a user-friendy environment). It took GNOME and KDE 10 years to get to where they are today. I recommend looking at screenshots of the early versions of GNOME and KDE and you may be surprised to see that the modern day xfce outdoes both in features/complexity. Besides, I don't think Ubuntu has the human resources for such an undertaking... they would have to double their human resources.

[bruce89]

The Ubuntu developers have struggled to write gnome-app-install, gdebi, restricted-manager, software-properties and update-manager in the 3 years Ubuntu has existed, so I think a whole DE would take about 100 years.

[shuttleworthwannabe]

The Ubuntu developers have struggled to write gnome-app-install, gdebi, restricted-manager, software-properties and update-manager in the 3 years Ubuntu has existed, so I think a whole DE would take about 100 years.

My sentimenets exactly--iI was wondering if the dev team could not look at a DE much like the OS X (in all intesive purooses, it is a very polished Gnome, IMO); but, I guess it is just one of those things one has to live with--"you get what you pay for"

I am not a dev, so not an expert with this;

[notna01]

1. Gnome is great
2. KDE is great
3. Ubuntu should just have a small-ish attempt at making their desktop more ubuntu-ey... They should keep making normal ubuntu, and add a new one to the list GnDEbuntu. It might be the most simple at running, but they might be able to cross KDE/Gnome into one.... GnDE

[eremini]

Yeah and because they use different frameworks and different programming languages, that will be possible...

[aamukahvi]

If you find GNOME too difficult, there's something wrong with you.
This is sig material, lol :mrgreen:

[smartboyathome]

My sentimenets exactly--iI was wondering if the dev team could not look at a DE much like the OS X (in all intesive purooses, it is a very polished Gnome, IMO); but, I guess it is just one of those things one has to live with--"you get what you pay for"

I am not a dev, so not an expert with this;

You CAN make KDE look like OSX easily, and can make GNOME look like OSX using some patches. It is all a matter of configuration, though I have never understood why a Linux distro that is supposed to look like OSX has never been created when everything else has. :lolflag:

[overlord.gaurav]

Why pour the effort into making an entirely new DE, when you could improve on existing ones?
This is what I would expect if someone says she/he wants a new DE.

[sx66gns]

Ubuntu without Gnome would just be weird and probably turn me off , I'd give it a shot but considering how things are going , if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[neoflight]

wha.... !!!

[Zdravko]

neoflight (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=50505), are you okay?

[notna01]

neoflight (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=50505), are you okay?

Have you done insulting people?

[bruce89]

This is sig material, lol :mrgreen:

Indeed.

[smartboyathome]

1. Gnome is great
2. KDE is great
3. Ubuntu should just have a small-ish attempt at making their desktop more ubuntu-ey... They should keep making normal ubuntu, and add a new one to the list GnDEbuntu. It might be the most simple at running, but they might be able to cross KDE/Gnome into one.... GnDE

This simply can't happen since Gnome and KDE are in different programming languages.

[Zdravko]

GNOME uses the C - GTK, while KDE - C++ - QT.

[HokeyFry]

You CAN make KDE look like OSX easily, and can make GNOME look like OSX using some patches. It is all a matter of configuration, though I have never understood why a Linux distro that is supposed to look like OSX has never been created when everything else has. :lolflag:

dreamlinux

[snickers295]

Why doesn't Ubuntu just make it's own desktop environment?
Because gnome and KDE ain't gonna make Ubuntu any more popular....
You should try and build your own environment. One thats easy to modify, but still nice on the eye...
Why take a chance to ruin such a good distro?
kde and gnome are great and are very stable and Ubuntu is very user friendly so why make a bugged up DE and make it hard for newbs to start Linux when its just fine the way it is?

[snickers295]

why don't you make a DE, Call it notnan (note-nane) and when its done offer the Ubuntu developers the source to see if they like it then maybe we will have a new DE.
If they won't put it in Ubuntu maybe they will make nubuntu!

[paintandswim09]

I've actually got severaly DEs running on Ubuntu, and they only took me a few minutes to come up with. I call the first one EMONG. To enable EMONG, first move your monitor to a place where it can be seen from ground level, and then stand on your head against the wall. It looks totally different than GNOME (but for some reason it looks naggingly familiar). The next one is FBINE (look at the letters of FBINE as you type them). To enable FBINE, first focus on the screen, then squint your eyes. I'd describe the DE as having a smoother flow, rather than the hard lines featured in GNOME. Last but not least is the DE I'm working on perfecting right now. I think it'll be called MJbuntu (Mary Jane -buntu). In the beta version, all you have to do is light up a fat one. Keep in mind, however, that this is not recommended in any province other than Amsterdam, and can be considered illegal in most other places. However, my friend in Amsterdam that is preparing this for me has reported that it is so beautiful that it makes you feel better. It also puts the special effects of Beryl and Compiz to shame. Be cautious, as it can drastically shorten your life span or land you in jail.
Happy buntuing!:guitar:

[dfreer]

I've actually got severaly DEs running on Ubuntu, and they only took me a few minutes to come up with. I call the first one EMONG. To enable EMONG, first move your monitor to a place where it can be seen from ground level, and then stand on your head against the wall. It looks totally different than GNOME (but for some reason it looks naggingly familiar). The next one is FBINE (look at the letters of FBINE as you type them). To enable FBINE, first focus on the screen, then squint your eyes. I'd describe the DE as having a smoother flow, rather than the hard lines featured in GNOME. Last but not least is the DE I'm working on perfecting right now. I think it'll be called MJbuntu (Mary Jane -buntu). In the beta version, all you have to do is light up a fat one. Keep in mind, however, that this is not recommended in any province other than Amsterdam, and can be considered illegal in most other places. However, my friend in Amsterdam that is preparing this for me has reported that it is so beautiful that it makes you feel better. It also puts the special effects of Beryl and Compiz to shame. Be cautious, as it can drastically shorten your life span or land you in jail.
Happy buntuing!:guitar:

0.0 <-- mere letters cannot express how wide open my eyes are right now...

[neoflight]

Have you done insulting people?

no offense indented. :)...it was supposed to be "why"...

[apoclypse]

I've actually got severaly DEs running on Ubuntu, and they only took me a few minutes to come up with. I call the first one EMONG. To enable EMONG, first move your monitor to a place where it can be seen from ground level, and then stand on your head against the wall. It looks totally different than GNOME (but for some reason it looks naggingly familiar). The next one is FBINE (look at the letters of FBINE as you type them). To enable FBINE, first focus on the screen, then squint your eyes. I'd describe the DE as having a smoother flow, rather than the hard lines featured in GNOME. Last but not least is the DE I'm working on perfecting right now. I think it'll be called MJbuntu (Mary Jane -buntu). In the beta version, all you have to do is light up a fat one. Keep in mind, however, that this is not recommended in any province other than Amsterdam, and can be considered illegal in most other places. However, my friend in Amsterdam that is preparing this for me has reported that it is so beautiful that it makes you feel better. It also puts the special effects of Beryl and Compiz to shame. Be cautious, as it can drastically shorten your life span or land you in jail.
Happy buntuing!:guitar:

Is there a beta of MJBuntu that I can get?

[snickers295]

lol you guys are cracking me up :lolflag::lolflag::lolflag:

[paintandswim09]

Is there a beta of MJBuntu that I can get?

I believe the groups charged with distributing the beta (loosely associated, and sometimes rival) are usually found on dark streets at night or in alleys. Experiment from different dealers- I mean distributors, to find the best version. By the way, the head honchos of the dev team come largely from Amsterdam and small farms in Latin and South America, as well as some extremely small operation within the homes of people around the world.