[IDEA] More Professional, Consistent Themes

[jlacroix]

I think the themes that Kubuntu, Xubuntu and Ubuntu use are good. However, they're not great.

I think Ubuntu Hardy should be not only a complete overhaul of the themes, but the themes should also be consistent. More information below.

Complete Overhaul
It's time for a theme that is extremely awesome and professional looking. Something to give Vista a run for its money. (Not saying that Vista's theme is great, but alot of people think it is).

The presentation of the OS is the first thing a user will see, and it's important to make a new first impression.

Also, why can't we have a blue theme for the new release?

Consistent Themes
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu all have different themes but they are part of the same family. This doesn't make sense. I think all three should have the same theme.

Yes, I do understand that Ubuntu/Xubuntu uses GTK while Kubuntu uses QT, however Mandriva's new release features the same La Ora theme accross its KDE and Gnome installation. The only difference is that there is a La Ora QT version for KDE, and a La Ora GTK version for Gnome.

I think the new theme should not only be extremely cutting edge, but consistent as well.

[Zdravko]

The theme doesn't matter for me. It is much more important that the OS works and operates the HW in a good and optimal way.

[DizzyTech]

Yes, a consistent, but clean implementation of the same colors and style should be on all systems. Or we could use GTK-QT. :KS

As well, a consistent icon theme (not necessarily Human, but maybe a derivative with more Tango, less shiny) should be employed.

[Zdravko]

DizzyTech (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=198876), again - this is not what makes Ubuntu so great. It is about its usability. Don't you think so?

[Lord Illidan]

Actually I agree that a good consistent theme would be very good.

A good theme makes you more productive, as you don't waste time replacing it. Ubuntu's theme is not that bad, although it could do with some retouching. However, KDE apps should use Ubuntu's colour scheme and have similar widgets imho.

[Zdravko]

I wonder why would anyone replace the current theme? What is wrong with it? Nice baby poo!

[bethaviv]

I actually like the color differences o.O

And, to be frank, it'll be hard to get everyone on the same boat with this issue (anyone remember the wallpaper flood of posts for Gutsy?)

I don't think that different colors or icon themes effect the usuability of the OS.

[ericesque]

Wow, we're going to beat this one over the head again, eh?

First, Ubuntu devs/art team can't tell Kubuntu or Xubuntu how to theme the distro.

Second, the Ubuntu art team has already picked a theme to flesh out in its entirety. It's called the Human theme. If you don't like the brown/orange look, you're going to have to get over it. It's here to stay for quite a while. It's taken multiple releases to get the theme to look as unified as it is-- and there are still bug reports across the board against the theme-- only because it really takes that long to squish theme bugs. Starting from scratch is the last thing we want to do.

Third, define professional. To me, a professional looking theme is one that is unified and complete. Unified through color and usability. Complete in terms of icon set and consistent look and feel EVERYWHERE in the OS. Human theme is creeping closer to these goals every day.

You can argue that people won't like the colors until you're blue in the face. But if you make a unified front with any color, it will look good. Is it everyone's first preference? Maybe not. That's why we can change the theme.

[bethaviv]

Wow, we're going to beat this one over the head again, eh?

First, Ubuntu devs/art team can't tell Kubuntu or Xubuntu how to theme the distro.

Second, the Ubuntu art team has already picked a theme to flesh out in its entirety. It's called the Human theme. If you don't like the brown/orange look, you're going to have to get over it. It's here to stay for quite a while. It's taken multiple releases to get the theme to look as unified as it is-- and there are still bug reports across the board against the theme-- only because it really takes that long to squish theme bugs. Starting from scratch is the last thing we want to do.

Third, define professional. To me, a professional looking theme is one that is unified and complete. Unified through color and usability. Complete in terms of icon set and consistent look and feel EVERYWHERE in the OS. Human theme is creeping closer to these goals every day.

You can argue that people won't like the colors until you're blue in the face. But if you make a unified front with any color, it will look good. Is it everyone's first preference? Maybe not. That's why we can change the theme.

Here here!

[jlacroix]

Wow, we're going to beat this one over the head again, eh?

First, Ubuntu devs/art team can't tell Kubuntu or Xubuntu how to theme the distro.

Second, the Ubuntu art team has already picked a theme to flesh out in its entirety. It's called the Human theme. If you don't like the brown/orange look, you're going to have to get over it. It's here to stay for quite a while. It's taken multiple releases to get the theme to look as unified as it is-- and there are still bug reports across the board against the theme-- only because it really takes that long to squish theme bugs. Starting from scratch is the last thing we want to do.

Third, define professional. To me, a professional looking theme is one that is unified and complete. Unified through color and usability. Complete in terms of icon set and consistent look and feel EVERYWHERE in the OS. Human theme is creeping closer to these goals every day.

You can argue that people won't like the colors until you're blue in the face. But if you make a unified front with any color, it will look good. Is it everyone's first preference? Maybe not. That's why we can change the theme.
This is an idea forum, not a debate forum. If you'd like to debate the ethics of my wanting to change the default theme, we could do that somewhere else.

[DizzyTech]

I've heard that Hardy will be using an orange/black theme instead. Any truth?

Zdravko, I do concur with you. However, usability is also consistency.

I know that we can't tell what the Xu- and Kubuntu devs to do, but shouldn't all of the art teams be unified? We're all working towards the same goal.

In any case, something does need to be done. What's the use of a default theme that everybody changes? I like the "style" of Human, but the colors are horrific. I don't even mind orange, but brown as a main color is atrocious.

I do feel that, even if the colors are horrible, the whole thing could be consistent and be just fine. However, shouldn't unified alternative color themes be available? I'm thinking of XP's Luna in silver and green and blue. My point is, I don't know how many times I've searched and searched to try and get a single theme or set of themes that looks similar in multiple DEs.

[jlacroix]

I've heard that Hardy will be using an orange/black theme instead. Any truth?

Zdravko, I do concur with you. However, usability is also consistency.

I know that we can't tell what the Xu- and Kubuntu devs to do, but shouldn't all of the art teams be unified? We're all working towards the same goal.

In any case, something does need to be done. What's the use of a default theme that everybody changes? I like the "style" of Human, but the colors are horrific. I don't even mind orange, but brown as a main color is atrocious.

I do feel that, even if the colors are horrible, the whole thing could be consistent and be just fine. However, shouldn't unified alternative color themes be available? I'm thinking of XP's Luna in silver and green and blue. My point is, I don't know how many times I've searched and searched to try and get a single theme or set of themes that looks similar in multiple DEs.
EXACTLY! Well said!

At the very least, we could have the same theme in all three versions (even Human) with several color variations!

Several color variations would be easy to do, it already exists on Gnome-look.org as "Ubuntu looks pack" and would be easy for the devs to modify.

And it's not easy to change the default theme, most Gnome themes suck, and the ones that don't suck have errors, misplaced pixels or inconsistent colors.

At the very worst, "Human Industrial" would be an EXCELLENT replacement theme, there are green variations too.

[Zdravko]

Zdravko, I do concur with you. However, usability is also consistency.


Nope. If the system is rock stable and reliable I don't care of the fancy stuff.

[DizzyTech]

While that may be good for you, most users (especially Average Joe) like to have both everything work and look good. Hell, most people apparently live without the former (I'm looking at you, Vista)!

[gruvsyco]

Wow, we're going to beat this one over the head again, eh?

First, Ubuntu devs/art team can't tell Kubuntu or Xubuntu how to theme the distro.

Second, the Ubuntu art team has already picked a theme to flesh out in its entirety. It's called the Human theme. If you don't like the brown/orange look, you're going to have to get over it. It's here to stay for quite a while. It's taken multiple releases to get the theme to look as unified as it is-- and there are still bug reports across the board against the theme-- only because it really takes that long to squish theme bugs. Starting from scratch is the last thing we want to do.

Third, define professional. To me, a professional looking theme is one that is unified and complete. Unified through color and usability. Complete in terms of icon set and consistent look and feel EVERYWHERE in the OS. Human theme is creeping closer to these goals every day.

You can argue that people won't like the colors until you're blue in the face. But if you make a unified front with any color, it will look good. Is it everyone's first preference? Maybe not. That's why we can change the theme.

It keeps coming up because it's an ongoing issue that never gets resolved.

The way I read it, he's not asking for removal of the orange/brown just for the overall design to look more professional.

I think if Ubuntu/Canonical really wanted to, they could say, look these are the widgets we're settling on across our environment... GTK and KDE as close as possible and if Kubuntu/Xubuntu want maintain their official support (i.e. being advertised on the Ubuntu site) they will use the defined widgets. They would be free to determine their colors, design their own wallpaper... all the little extras but the base package would be designed out of the box to look as completely integrated across Desktop Environments as possible.

If the devs have settled on Human, then they should have Human complete across Gnome, KDE and XFCE so that whne a user installs something that is outside of the base DE (for example Amarok on Ubuntu), it doesn't feel out of place. Let the sub-distros focus on distro specific packages and colors schemes.

As far as the specifics of looking professional.... colors aside, take a look at the artwork that is OpenSuSE... the grub menu, boot splash, the login and the desktop. It is all just beautifully put together.

[bethaviv]

I think if Ubuntu/Canonical really wanted to, they could say, look these are the widgets we're settling on across our environment... GTK and KDE as close as possible and if Kubuntu/Xubuntu want maintain their official support (i.e. being advertised on the Ubuntu site) they will use the defined widgets. They would be free to determine their colors, design their own wallpaper... all the little extras but the base package would be designed out of the box to look as completely integrated across Desktop Environments as possible.

Then what's the point of Linux? The best part about it is that we're free to do what we want. It would be total contradiction to *force* people to comply otherwise lose support and advertisement. Not to mention it sounds really egotistical coming from a company whose slogan is "Linux for Humans".

If the devs have settled on Human, then they should have Human complete across Gnome, KDE and XFCE so that whne a user installs something that is outside of the base DE (for example Amarok on Ubuntu), it doesn't feel out of place. Let the sub-distros focus on distro specific packages and colors schemes.

A lot of programs use their own skin and windows borders. And Linux doesn't revolve around Ubuntu; KDE, GNOME and XFCE should focus on making the best DE it can, not worrying about losing advertisement if they don't comply to a distro's specs. These DEs are used in many different distros... it would probably hurt Ubuntu more than it would help if they cut off support for them.

As far as the specifics of looking professional.... colors aside, take a look at the artwork that is OpenSuSE... the grub menu, boot splash, the login and the desktop. It is all just beautifully put together.

An opinion. I think K/Ubuntu looks "beautifully put together." (Never used Xubuntu, so I don't know.)

[gruvsyco]

Then what's the point of Linux? The best part about it is that we're free to do what we want. It would be total contradiction to *force* people to comply otherwise lose support and advertisement. Not to mention it sounds really egotistical coming from a company whose slogan is "Linux for Humans".



A lot of programs use their own skin and windows borders. And Linux doesn't revolve around Ubuntu; KDE, GNOME and XFCE should focus on making the best DE it can, not worrying about losing advertisement if they don't comply to a distro's specs. These DEs are used in many different distros... it would probably hurt Ubuntu more than it would help if they cut off support for them.



An opinion. I think K/Ubuntu looks "beautifully put together." (Never used Xubuntu, so I don't know.)

Your points are valid if we were talking about "Linux" but we're not, we are talking about Ubuntu and the sub-distros. Ubuntu is a product by Canonical and I think if they are going to "give" others the right to "buntu" as well as provide links and advertising for them on their website, they should adhere to some stricter standards than what I'm sure are already there.

K/Ubuntu as you put it are NOT technically beautifully put together... that's the reason the whole debate seems to constantly come up over and over again. A lot of this is unimportant to existing Ubuntu users... I'm sure if you polled anyone who has used Ubuntu for any length of time, you'd find that most change the theme almost immediately, in this case... Ubuntu could do whatever with the default theme because it doesn't matter but, if you take into account when designing what would appeal to "New" users or "Inexperienced" users (for example, my parents who have never changed anything in regards to looks of the default Windows theme) then the default theme is important.

I use Ubuntu and have used Ubuntu for a while as my Linux distro of choice because of the way it works. It detects my hardware, it just works out of the box (although there's always room for improvement) but... out of the box it is also damn ugly in my opinion.... but that isn't really the point at all of what I was saying that you misconstrued...

I'm pushing for consistency. Ubuntu comes default with Gnome and, if you look across the forums, you'd likely see that the preferred app for audio by the majority of users is Amarok. Do a base install of Ubuntu, then install Amarok from the repos without changing anything else at all. You will find that Amarok does not fit in with the look of Gnome. This does not need to be the case.

[dolomite792]

Many people argue that the "human theme" is ugly, with some simple adjustments like an overhaul on the window art and some intelligent, creative, and artistic use of the human theme colours, we could have a hit on our hands. To be able to take full advantage of the rich human colours, would be beautiful. Since everyone is so touchy about changing ubuntu's colours, they should really show them off. Ubuntu's theme colours are excellent for making rich contrasting combinations by laying them against one another. This could be ubuntu's window theme trademark by the way the colours are artistically arranged in the theme. It would definetly command more spirit behind it.

The theme that is up by default gives a reflection of the ubuntu devs, now I know why the KDE faction calls the gnome devs "scary".

Imagine having a more crisp look to the standard theme, windows that simply look more professional. (Don't give the dev vs eye candy arguement, when the gui looks like something from an old nintendo game).

It would not take much work to even make it just a little better.

Ubuntu is supposed to be the top linux distro, and whether most people like it or not, its the poster child for linux to the mainstream world.

I downloaded gutsy today, loaded it off of the live cd and was amazed. I thought to myself, "this is what all the hype is about?" "It looks so very very old and boring "God damm ubuntu, you need to get your ***** together". I hate to say it but, first impressions are everything.

Eye candy is about anything anyone has to look forward to these days when running linux, since you can't even run popular games nor mainstream work applications such as photoshop right out of the box.

This is supposed to be the polished distro that is released to the world? There is absolutely no style and no effort put into presentation at all.

Sorry to be a tad harsh but its reality, opensource doesn't have to look like commodore 64 graphics.

[mech7]

I think themes should finally take care of the panels and windows decoration... and i dont mean only change the color of a panel ;)

Also i think it is time to finally give some proper spacing on the icons on the panel.

[Zdravko]

Oh man! You seem to live for these nasty fancy graphics.

[dolomite792]

Oh man! You seem to live for these nasty fancy graphics.

Just atleast something that doesn't look like I've traced the icons on the window panel with a pencil.

Poor presentation is like selling a house that needs fixing up,

Non-fixed up = no love which Turns off buyers

For some reason when you show some love, people flock and want to buy it. Its natural human behaviour.

A coat of paint and some crown molding glued in around the window frames, door frames, light fixtures and ceilings, makes so much of a difference.

Its all too simple to do as well
Re-arranging the window gui (ie the button icons) isn't just about good looks, it can actually be used to help new users more easily navigate.

Which is a lot easier on their eye's and their brains. Like someone said, its amazing with the amount of clicking is done these days in the lands of the gui, when the command line accomplishes these tasks and more with a few simple commands.

Ever spend a lot of time working in windows? Your eyes get tired, your brain becomes tired. It takes a lot of focus.

This is one place an impact can also be made.

By looking at the asthetics, of what is easier for your eyes and brain to look at for hours on end (which is a very simple arrangement by the way)

Because this is after all linux for humans!!

Goes perfectly with the slogan

By steering away from a traditional box, button placement to a more creative and simple innovation of placement of all menus and navigations, you can adapt it to what's easier for our eyes and brains to see and work with over the hours.

You can equate this to blocky steel toe work boots vs a form fitted shoe designed to make use of the fact that walking barefoot is easier on your feet, therefore sole adjustments are made, giving you more energy and agility.

I could draw up some concepts to better explain what I'm trying to convey.

This just doesn't have to do with personal layout preference but deeper into how our brains function with ineracting with the Graphical user interface.

This is all simple too, not complex.

I feel it would be interesting for the intelligent world of linux users to know this and impliment it as another staple of their concious innovative greatness.

Linux for humans - indeed

[smartboyathome]

I use Blended with my HalloGTK theme, and since I work on the computer for hours (my classes are all online), it suits me better than windows. Like I keep saying - the Human theme is fine, it just needs to be polished.

[screaminj3sus]

Just atleast something that doesn't look like I've traced the icons on the window panel with a pencil.

Poor presentation is like selling a house that needs fixing up,

Non-fixed up = no love which Turns off buyers

For some reason when you show some love, people flock and want to buy it. Its natural human behaviour.

A coat of paint and some crown molding glued in around the window frames, door frames, light fixtures and ceilings, makes so much of a difference.

Its all too simple to do as well
Re-arranging the window gui (ie the button icons) isn't just about good looks, it can actually be used to help new users more easily navigate.

Which is a lot easier on their eye's and their brains. Like someone said, its amazing with the amount of clicking is done these days in the lands of the gui, when the command line accomplishes these tasks and more with a few simple commands.

Ever spend a lot of time working in windows? Your eyes get tired, your brain becomes tired. It takes a lot of focus.

This is one place an impact can also be made.

By looking at the asthetics, of what is easier for your eyes and brain to look at for hours on end (which is a very simple arrangement by the way)

Because this is after all linux for humans!!

Goes perfectly with the slogan

By steering away from a traditional box, button placement to a more creative and simple innovation of placement of all menus and navigations, you can adapt it to what's easier for our eyes and brains to see and work with over the hours.

You can equate this to blocky steel toe work boots vs a form fitted shoe designed to make use of the fact that walking barefoot is easier on your feet, therefore sole adjustments are made, giving you more energy and agility.

I could draw up some concepts to better explain what I'm trying to convey.

This just doesn't have to do with personal layout preference but deeper into how our brains function with ineracting with the Graphical user interface.

This is all simple too, not complex.

I feel it would be interesting for the intelligent world of linux users to know this and impliment it as another staple of their concious innovative greatness.

Linux for humans - indeed

You bring up some great points.

[Merk42]

...
I could draw up some concepts to better explain what I'm trying to convey...

Please go ahead an make some mock ups.
Then the thread will be really popular
Then I suppose you'll be assissinated by Canonical and buried next to dannymichel

The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.
Why would you care about the beauty of the dream? Wouldn't the stability be much more important? I mean, why put all that emotion in the beauty of the dream if it can't be accomplished?

[Zdravko]

Merk42 (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=314897), dreaming is applicable to humans only. Dreams allow us to continue fighting in this harsh world.

[Merk42]

Zdravko, you missed my (albeit sarcastic) point. I'll see if anyone else in this thread get it.