Automatix2 for Gutsy released

[jtbl]

Automatix2 for Gutsy has been released. The packages can be found in the Automatix repos and at the link below:

http://www.getautomatix.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1558

We ask that all support questions and bug reports are posted in the Gutsy section on the Automatix Forum:

http://www.getautomatix.com/forum/index.php?showforum=52

[DoctorMO]

Can I ask you if in all seriousness if there is a point to Automatix2 any more?

Shouldn't your development team decommission the code and work with the ubuntu developers to fix and smooth any of the bugs in the new media automatic installation tools?

I mean fair play to you creating a very useful tool but it's just not got a reason any more.

:confused:

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Same question from me. At this point in time, everything Automatix does could be done with package repositories and existing software. It would be much more intuitive, easier to maintain, and less likely to cause problems.

Claims of Automatix being intuitive do not take into account how one must first download and install the software, then figure it out, then finally use it to solve a very simple problem. It unnecessarily adds another GUI interface, which is quite confusing for users.

Nothing against what you're trying to do, but just a little suggestion...

This does sound like a good improvement. Why are you guys no longer targetting i386 as the main platform? Has AMD64 suddenly become amazingly popular, or is there some other reason?

[aysiu]

Same question from me. At this point in time, everything Automatix does could be done with package repositories and existing software. It would be much more intuitive, easier to maintain, and less likely to cause problems. Not everything, actually, but most of the common things it's used for.

[p_quarles]

@DoctorMO, Mr. Picklesworth: This is just the announcement. The discussion has been going on here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=566617) for a while. I'm not an Automatix user, but both your points have already been raised and answered. Read that thread.

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Ah, thank you for the link, p_Quarles.

[jtbl]

Why are you guys no longer targetting i386 as the main platform? Has AMD64 suddenly become amazingly popular, or is there some other reason?

The reason why AMD64 is now our main platform is that we now believe its ready for average users to use for their everyday desktop.

[Kilz]

O joy now there will be more broken amd64 installs.

[dagrump]

Well, there goes the neighborhood!
I tried that "stuff", once, I'll take my chances on doing it the slow way.

[jtbl]

O joy now there will be more broken amd64 installs.

Actually Automatix has taken an extra cautious approach to installing 32 bit software on AMD64. Automatix has always installed 32 bit software in /opt where it cannot interfere with the 64 bit software users install using apt. Also, Automatix has never used the --force-architecture option to install any 32 bit software on AMD64. Some of the methods people on the forums suggest using result in 32 bit libraries being installed where only 64 bit libraries should reside. Automatix has never installed 32 bit libraries into 64 bit library directories. Most of the broken AMD64 installs are the result of using both Automatix and other installation scripts on one system. The scripts weren't designed to work together, thus the higher risk of something going wrong. With our new developer/community development process, that has just started with the Gutsy release, we hope to make Automatix compatible with others scripts.

[Kilz]

Actually Automatix has taken an extra cautious approach to installing 32 bit software on AMD64. Automatix has always installed 32 bit software in /opt where it cannot interfere with the 64 bit software users install using apt. Also, Automatix has never used the --force-architecture option to install any 32 bit software on AMD64. Some of the methods people on the forums suggest using result in 32 bit libraries being installed where only 64 bit libraries should reside. Automatix has never installed 32 bit libraries into 64 bit library directories.

I think that anyone who uses automatix on 64bit (or any other bit for that matter) should have their head examined. I think you must have no idea of what is suggested on the 64bit section if you think people are advised to force in libraries. This is confirmed in that you have only one post in the 64bit section, and that was over 1 year ago.
I think that if anyone uses automatix, it should be someone with extensive troubleshooting experience. That way when it flies by at least it wont be a new user that ends up with an unusable system.

[misfitpierce]

O joy now there will be more broken amd64 installs.

Thats a false comment for all. Automatix has never given me a problem. I can do manually but choose to use and support automatix. Out with negativity :)

[Kilz]

Thats a false comment for all. Automatix has never given me a problem. I can do manually but choose to use and support automatix. Out with negativity :)

That you ended up with a working system does not negate the others who end up with an unusable system. When it happens to new users it is unforgivable.

[Vadi]

I wouldn't find it comfortable to tell to new users "Ubuntu isn't complete. You must install Automatix to complete it", and I don't. I find that Ubuntu already has everything it needs (in fact, the only thing I tell them to install is the "Ubuntu restricted extras" if they're on Fiesty. Installs flash, java, and a bunch of other things - pretty much everything needed).

So IMO it would much more productive if you just helped Ubuntu devs.

Edit: scratch that, I actually just read the other thread. Excellent going.

[jtbl]

I think that anyone who uses automatix on 64bit (or any other bit for that matter) should have their head examined. I think you must have no idea of what is suggested on the 64bit section if you think people are advised to force in libraries. This is confirmed in that you have only one post in the 64bit section, and that was over 1 year ago.
I think that if anyone uses automatix, it should be someone with extensive troubleshooting experience. That way when it flies by at least it wont be a new user that ends up with an unusable system.

Here is something I found in your firefox installation script

sudo dpkg --force-architecture -i j2re1.4_1.4.2.02-1ubuntu3_i386.deb

Now if you ask any Ubuntu developer about the safety of passing a --force command to apt, chances are you won't get an approving response. Overall you did a good job writing the scripts, one thing I would have done different is installed the software in /opt.

[Kilz]

Here is something I found in your firefox installation script

sudo dpkg --force-architecture -i j2re1.4_1.4.2.02-1ubuntu3_i386.deb

Now if you ask any Ubuntu developer about the safety of passing a --force command to apt, chances are you won't get an approving response.

That dose not force in libraries. that installs a self contained application. You said libraries. Also while Im at it --force is a part of apt. It was placed there by developers, if they dont like it, they can take it out.

[jtbl]

I think that anyone who uses automatix on 64bit (or any other bit for that matter) should have their head examined. I think you must have no idea of what is suggested on the 64bit section if you think people are advised to force in libraries. This is confirmed in that you have only one post in the 64bit section, and that was over 1 year ago.
I think that if anyone uses automatix, it should be someone with extensive troubleshooting experience. That way when it flies by at least it wont be a new user that ends up with an unusable system.


One place to find what I am talking about are the packages from the Medibuntu non-free repo. The AMD64 packages in their non-free repos, with the exception of w64codecs, install 32 bit binaries and libraries where only 64 bit binaries and libraries should be installed.

[p_quarles]

That dose not force in libraries. that installs a self contained application. You said libraries. Also while Im at it --force is a part of apt. It was placed there by developers, if they dont like it, they can take it out.
me@hostname:~$ dpkg --force-help
dpkg forcing options - control behaviour when problems found:
warn but continue: --force-<thing>,<thing>,...
stop with error: --refuse-<thing>,<thing>,... | --no-force-<thing>,...
Forcing things:
all [!] Set all force options
downgrade
Replace a package with a lower version
configure-any Configure any package which may help this one
hold Process incidental packages even when on hold
bad-path PATH is missing important programs, problems likely
not-root Try to (de)install things even when not root
overwrite Overwrite a file from one package with another
overwrite-diverted Overwrite a diverted file with an undiverted version
bad-verify Install a package even if it fails authenticity check
depends-version [!] Turn dependency version problems into warnings
depends [!] Turn all dependency problems into warnings
confnew [!] Always use the new config files, don't prompt
confold [!] Always use the old config files, don't prompt
confdef [!] Use the default option for new config files if one
is available, don't prompt. If no default can be found,
you will be prompted unless one of the confold or
confnew options is also given
confmiss [!] Always install missing config files
conflicts [!] Allow installation of conflicting packages
architecture [!] Process even packages with wrong architecture
overwrite-dir [!] Overwrite one package's directory with another's file
remove-reinstreq [!] Remove packages which require installation
remove-essential [!] Remove an essential package

WARNING - use of options marked [!] can seriously damage your installation.
Forcing options marked
are enabled by default.

[Kilz]

One place to find what I am talking about are the packages from the Medibuntu non-free repo. The AMD64 packages in their non-free repos, with the exception of w64codecs, install 32 bit binaries and libraries where only 64 bit binaries and libraries should be installed.

Medibuntu is not a part of Ubuntu, They are not recommended by me. Their packages are not used by me. But at least they dont spam their existence on the forums using accounts who's sole purpose is to advertise a 3rd party application that removed itself from the Ubuntu site when its leader got pissed off he didnt get an apology.

[jtbl]

Medibuntu is not a part of Ubuntu, They are not recommended by me. Their packages are not used by me. But at least they dont spam their existence on the forums using accounts who's sole purpose is to advertise a 3rd party application that removed itself from the Ubuntu site when its leader got pissed off he didnt get an apology.

They are however recommended, and used, by a lot of people on the Ubuntu Forums, usually as an alternative to Automatix. Also, we do not spam the forums promoting Automatix. We can't force users not to talk about us.

[Kilz]

me@hostname:~$ dpkg --force-help
dpkg forcing options - control behaviour when problems found:
warn but continue: --force-<thing>,<thing>,...
stop with error: --refuse-<thing>,<thing>,... | --no-force-<thing>,...
Forcing things:
all [!] Set all force options
downgrade
Replace a package with a lower version
configure-any Configure any package which may help this one
hold Process incidental packages even when on hold
bad-path PATH is missing important programs, problems likely
not-root Try to (de)install things even when not root
overwrite Overwrite a file from one package with another
overwrite-diverted Overwrite a diverted file with an undiverted version
bad-verify Install a package even if it fails authenticity check
depends-version [!] Turn dependency version problems into warnings
depends [!] Turn all dependency problems into warnings
confnew [!] Always use the new config files, don't prompt
confold [!] Always use the old config files, don't prompt
confdef [!] Use the default option for new config files if one
is available, don't prompt. If no default can be found,
you will be prompted unless one of the confold or
confnew options is also given
confmiss [!] Always install missing config files
conflicts [!] Allow installation of conflicting packages
architecture [!] Process even packages with wrong architecture
overwrite-dir [!] Overwrite one package's directory with another's file
remove-reinstreq [!] Remove packages which require installation
remove-essential [!] Remove an essential package

WARNING - use of options marked [!] can seriously damage your installation.
Forcing options marked
are enabled by default.

Sure it can if you are forcing in libraries, but this isnt a library.
But we all have had experience of Automatix messing over a sources.list. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=466253) that isnta "can" but a "did".

[Technoviking]

Congrats to Automatix team on the new release, but I'm closing this thread before it landslides to another pro/anti Automatix war. The automatix forums is the best place for Automatix support questions. (http://www.getautomatix.com/)

Mike

[macgar32]

I know many will say it is not needed but here it is for those that are interested.

http://www.getautomatix.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1558

[23meg]

This is a duplicate of a recent thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=577926), so I'm closing it.