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RAV TUX
September 21st, 2007, 02:27 AM
Specifically for LinuxTracker.org, perhaps one the best indicators of the top distros, The top 10 most active Torrents on LinuxTracker.org:


http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=43962&d=1190337683
(http://linuxtracker.org/extras-stats.php)

(inspired by this post (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3400196&postcount=526))

Spr0k3t
September 21st, 2007, 02:29 AM
Hey now... if PCLOS is so popular, why is it not up there? /sarcasm

Kingsley
September 21st, 2007, 02:31 AM
I'm surprised some variant of Windows didn't make the list.

Sayers
September 21st, 2007, 02:40 AM
It's a linux only torrent

Frak
September 21st, 2007, 02:40 AM
But at least it shows the Real standings, not some page hit count. These can't be manipulated.

Thanks RAV :)

n3tfury
September 21st, 2007, 02:51 AM
I'm surprised some variant of Windows didn't make the list.

lol king

FuturePilot
September 21st, 2007, 02:52 AM
Ophcrack. What goes on here? lol:lolflag:

Kingsley
September 21st, 2007, 02:54 AM
lol king
I joke, I joke!

tbroderick
September 21st, 2007, 03:05 AM
But at least it shows the Real standings, not some page hit count. These can't be manipulated.


It's as useless as Distrowatch.

Frak
September 21st, 2007, 03:11 AM
It's as useless as Distrowatch.
Explain Please.

tbroderick
September 21st, 2007, 03:21 AM
Explain Please.

a. I'm 100% confident that JackLab is not the most used Linux distro.
b. Not every distro is available there.
c. People download distros directly from http or ftp severs or buy a cd/dvd.
d. There are other trackers.

Frak
September 21st, 2007, 03:23 AM
Good points, but you have to admit, it is at least a little more accurate than Distrowatch. Since Distrowatch can very, VERY, easily be manipulated to show something different. When thats nearly impossible to do with torrents.

RAV TUX
September 21st, 2007, 03:37 AM
a. I'm 100% confident that JackLab is not the most used Linux distro.


Actually looking at the JackLab website (http://jacklab.net/jacklaborg/english/) I can see how this could be the most used distribution!....based on OpenSUSE and it uses the e17 DS, it has KDE also and all the most awesome KDE applications and includes PackMan repositories!

I am going to download this torrent and try it now!




JackLab Audio Distribution
Latest release: FINAL IS OUT NOW!!! JAD 1.0 Installer DVD | JAD 1.0 beta2 Live DVD
A remastered openSUSE for musicians, producers and media creators.

We have found that musicians have particular requirements for their Linux environment. A Linux-based distribution that is designed for music needs to be flexible, powerful, yet easy and quick to use. All of these things are essential in a busy, creative environment.

Thinking about these requirements, we decided to base JAD on openSUSE due to its stability and long development history. All major administrative tasks can be done graphically and easily without having to learn any complicated terminal commands.

JAD is fully compatible with the recently released openSUSE 10.2. It contain a full production environment for media production, primarily music. For this, the JackLab team added a Realtime Kernel version 2.6.19 to have fast audio processing with a latency up to 1.5ms. The default audio system will be based on the the Jack Audio Connection Kit (JACK) which is designed for the needs of musicians and producers and gives a professional audio/midi controlling interface.

The installer is based on the acclaimed YaST2, which also serves as an easy-to-use administrative tool. To keep as many essential computer resources for music as possible, we have decided to use Enlightenment D17 desktop shell as the default window manager. KDE desktop environment is also included, so the user-friendly file manager - Konqueror, is available along with Kmail, Konversation, k3b and other KDE tools. For music creation and editing, we have included around 70 audio applications with sequencers, synthesizers and tools all installed and ready to go. User-friendly support for setting up and running VST instruments and effects is given.

Additionally, there are applications for video production and a graphic suite that are included on the DVD. For browsing the internet, we have included Firefox 2.0 chosen for its stability, security and extendability. JAD is a community based effort and is the culmination of the work of many contributors. Recently, JackLab and PackMan (packman.links2linux.de) have joined forces to offer JAD access to the PackMan repositories so that up-to-date audio software, non-audio software and multimedia codecs are available to JAD users.

The JAD development team would like you to participate in the development process too. There are different ways you can help: -As a tester, you can download the most recent version and use the bugtracker to report any problems. -You can participate in the graphics contest: The best graphics submitted will be used as default for the bootscreen, wallpaper, skins and icons. -You can submit feature requests and take part in discussions on the mailing list. -For taking part in providing user support, there is a web based forum and an IRC channel - it is also an essential part of the development process to see feedback.

igknighted
September 21st, 2007, 03:44 AM
Good points, but you have to admit, it is at least a little more accurate than Distrowatch. Since Distrowatch can very, VERY, easily be manipulated to show something different. When thats nearly impossible to do with torrents.

Not really... I bet Ubuntu and especially PCLOS get newer users... probably a lot less familiar with torrents. Jacklab, Gentoo, even Fedora (maybe ophcrack... i've never heard of it) are a little more tailored to advanced users, who probably are more comfortable with torrents.

For the record, I think torrents suck... mirrors FTW.

n3tfury
September 21st, 2007, 03:46 AM
Not really... I bet Ubuntu and especially PCLOS get newer users... probably a lot less familiar with torrents. Jacklab, Gentoo, even Fedora (maybe ophcrack... i've never heard of it) are a little more tailored to advanced users, who probably are more comfortable with torrents.

For the record, I think torrents suck... mirrors FTW.

ophcrack is a windows password cracker that uses Rainbow tables. lol that that's on the list.

RAV TUX
September 21st, 2007, 03:49 AM
ophcrack is a windows password cracker that uses Rainbow tables. lol that that's on the list.ophcrack also works in Linux and OS X


Ophcrack is a Windows password cracker based on rainbow tables. It is a very efficient implementation of rainbow tables done by the inventors of the method. It comes with a GTK+ Graphical User Interface and runs on Windows, Mac OS X (Intel CPU) as well as on Linux.http://ophcrack.sourceforge.net/


Runs on Windows, Linux and Mac OS X (intel).
Cracks LM and NTLM hashes.
Free tables available for alphanumeric LM hashes.
Loads hashes from local SAM, remote SAM.
Loads hashes from encrypted SAM recovered from a Windows partition, Vista included.http://ophcrack.sourceforge.net/



The ophcrack LiveCD contains a small linux system (SLAX6), ophcrack for linux and rainbow tables for alphanumerical passwords.

The liveCD cracks passwords automatically, no installation necessary, no admin password necessary (as long as you can boot from CD).

Windows Vista SAM can also be cracked.http://ophcrack.sourceforge.net/

n3tfury
September 21st, 2007, 03:50 AM
what i mean is, it cracks windows passwords.

Frak
September 21st, 2007, 03:52 AM
ophcrack also works in Linux and OS X
Lol, now I have two distros to try ;)

RAV TUX
September 21st, 2007, 04:03 AM
Not really... I bet Ubuntu and especially PCLOS get newer users... probably a lot less familiar with torrents. Jacklab, Gentoo, even Fedora (maybe ophcrack... i've never heard of it) are a little more tailored to advanced users, who probably are more comfortable with torrents.

For the record, I think torrents suck... mirrors FTW.

PCLinuxOS and it's variants have about 23 torrents on LinuxTracker.org (http://linuxtracker.org/torrents-search.php?search=pclinuxos) what you say may be true those who are more experienced with Linux may be attracted to LinuxTracker.org
Therefore it gives us a great picture of the more discriminating Linux user thus giving a better reflection of the top Linux distros.

ThinkBuntu
September 21st, 2007, 04:45 AM
I'm skeptical of those figures as being an accurate gauge of popularity. Distros that only are distributed via torrent, or seriously encourage torrent use for distribution, will rank much higher than their popularity would suggest

See any torrents around here? (http://www.us.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/) Neither do I...

RAV TUX
September 21st, 2007, 04:54 AM
I'm skeptical of those figures as being an accurate gauge of popularity. Distros that only are distributed via torrent, or seriously encourage torrent use for distribution, will rank much higher than their popularity would suggest

See any torrents around here? (http://www.us.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/) Neither do I...

It is still more of an accurate indicator then DW could ever dream to be.

In my OP I never said it was the most accurate indicator for popularity, only that it is the Top 10 most active distros on LinuxTracker.org

& btw a quick Google search will give you all the Debian Torrents (http://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/) here! ;)


Downloading Debian CD images with BitTorrent

BitTorrent (http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/) is a peer to peer download system optimised for large numbers of downloaders. It puts minimal load on our servers because BitTorrent clients upload pieces of files to others while downloading, thus spreading the load across the network and making blazing fast downloads possible.
You will need a BitTorrent client to download Debian CD/DVD images this way. The Debian distribution includes Azureus (http://packages.debian.org/azureus), BitTornado (http://packages.debian.org/bittornado), KTorrent (http://packages.debian.org/ktorrent) and the original BitTorrent (http://packages.debian.org/bittorrent) tools. Other operating systems are supported by Azureus (http://azureus.sourceforge.net/download.php), BitTornado (http://www.bittornado.com/download.html) and BitTorrent (http://www.bittorrent.com/download).

Official torrents for the stable release on CD
[alpha (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/alpha/bt-cd/)] [amd64 (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/amd64/bt-cd/)] [arm (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/arm/bt-cd/)] [hppa (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/hppa/bt-cd/)] [i386 (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/i386/bt-cd/)] [ia64 (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/ia64/bt-cd/)] [mips (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/mips/bt-cd/)] [mipsel (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/mipsel/bt-cd/)] [powerpc (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/powerpc/bt-cd/)] [sparc (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/sparc/bt-cd/)] [s390 (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/s390/bt-cd/)] [source (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/source/bt-cd/)] [multi-arch (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/multi-arch/bt-cd/)]
Official torrents for the stable release on DVD
[alpha (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/alpha/bt-dvd/)] [amd64 (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/amd64/bt-dvd/)] [arm (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/arm/bt-dvd/)] [hppa (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/hppa/bt-dvd/)] [i386 (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/i386/bt-dvd/)] [ia64 (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/ia64/bt-dvd/)] [mips (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/mips/bt-dvd/)] [mipsel (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/mipsel/bt-dvd/)] [powerpc (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/powerpc/bt-dvd/)] [sparc (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/sparc/bt-dvd/)] [s390 (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/s390/bt-dvd/)] [source (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/source/bt-dvd/)] [multi-arch (http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/4.0_r1/multi-arch/bt-dvd/)]
Official weekly torrents for the "testing" distribution on CD
[alpha (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/alpha/bt-cd/)] [amd64 (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/amd64/bt-cd/)] [arm (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/arm/bt-cd/)] [hppa (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/hppa/bt-cd/)] [i386 (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/i386/bt-cd/)] [ia64 (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/ia64/bt-cd/)] [m68k (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/m68k/bt-cd/)] [mips (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/mips/bt-cd/)] [mipsel (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/mipsel/bt-cd/)] [powerpc (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/powerpc/bt-cd/)] [sparc (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/sparc/bt-cd/)] [s390 (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/s390/bt-cd/)] [source (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/source/bt-cd/)] [multi-arch (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/multi-arch/bt-cd/)]
Official weekly torrents for the "testing" distribution on DVD
[alpha (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/alpha/bt-dvd/)] [amd64 (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/amd64/bt-dvd/)] [arm (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/arm/bt-dvd/)] [hppa (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/hppa/bt-dvd/)] [i386 (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/i386/bt-dvd/)] [ia64 (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/ia64/bt-dvd/)] [m68k (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/m68k/bt-dvd/)] [mips (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/mips/bt-dvd/)] [mipsel (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/mipsel/bt-dvd/)] [powerpc (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/powerpc/bt-dvd/)] [sparc (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/sparc/bt-dvd/)] [s390 (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/s390/bt-dvd/)] [source (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/source/bt-dvd/)] [multi-arch (http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/multi-arch/bt-dvd/)] If you can, please leave your client running after your download is complete, to help others download images faster!
http://www.debian.org/CD/torrent-cd/

ThinkBuntu
September 21st, 2007, 04:56 AM
Oh, I don't mean that it has no value. But if we can establish Distrowatch as the dominant source by which new users discover their Linux OS, then that's the best indicator. Of course, everyone knows that if each computer precisely reveals its distro (for instance, Zenwalk is reported, not Slackware) then we would get nearly accurate results based on Google's hit stats, because I think we can agree that Google's the most widely-used website out there.

Note: Good to see that Debian does have torrents, but I was just basing my analysis off what I see on the official Getting Debian (http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/) page.

RAV TUX
September 21st, 2007, 04:58 AM
Oh, I don't mean that it has no value. But if we can establish Distrowatch as the dominant source by which new users discover their Linux OS, then that's the best indicator. Of course, everyone knows that if each computer precisely reveals its distro (for instance, Zenwalk is reported, not Slackware) then we would get nearly accurate results based on Google's hit stats, because I think we can agree that Google's the most widely-used website out there.
I honestly question whether DW can be determined an indicator for new users.

It would be impossible to establish.

Spr0k3t
September 21st, 2007, 04:58 AM
Hey now... if PCLOS is so popular, why is it not up there?

It's a linux only torrent

Ah... that makes better sense. GD&R

ThinkBuntu
September 21st, 2007, 05:00 AM
As a case study, I didn't know a thing about Linux when I got started. My first stop was Wikipedia. My second was Google, which actually didn't give me much. And my third, although I didn't know the significance of the site at the time, was Distrowatch which quickly proved itself to be a great resource. Granted, I only used it to look at openSUSE, Ubuntu, and a couple others at the time as I best remember.

RAV TUX
September 21st, 2007, 05:03 AM
As a case study, I didn't know a thing about Linux when I got started. My first stop was Wikipedia. My second was Google, which actually didn't give me much. And my third, although I didn't know the significance of the site at the time, was Distrowatch which quickly proved itself to be a great resource. Granted, I only used it to look at openSUSE, Ubuntu, and a couple others at the time as I best remember.

As a case study when I was new I never came across DW, it was not until I was at best an intermediate user that I even became aware of it's existence. Most likely heard about it in the forums here. (you can thus see the correlation of Ubuntu popularity on a website actively pushed in the forums, thus it at best becomes a illustrative example of circular reasoning and becomes faulty to even consider it as a reliable source for any kind of rankings)

While LinuxTracker.org has verifiable empirical validation.

jasay
September 21st, 2007, 05:07 AM
a. I'm 100% confident that JackLab is not the most used Linux distro.
b. Not every distro is available there.
c. People download distros directly from http or ftp severs or buy a cd/dvd.
d. There are other trackers.

e. This is a current snapshot of how many users are downloading a particular distro *right now*. Distros that had a recent release (like jacklab a few days ago) are going to have a lot of people tyring it out or upgrading the install whereas distros in mid cycle or approaching a release will have substantially fewer downloaders.

RAV TUX
September 21st, 2007, 05:12 AM
e. This is a current snapshot of how many users are downloading a particular distro *right now*. Distros that had a recent release (like jacklab a few days ago) are going to have a lot of people tyring it out or upgrading the install whereas distros in mid cycle or approaching a release will have substantially fewer downloaders.

Same argument used and is true also for DW.

honestly they are both not accurate indicators of the popularity of distros.

simply a small sliver of a snapshot.

What I find annoying is how fanboys will put an once of validity into DW rankings when they themselves say they are not accurate and for entertainment purposes only.

jasay
September 21st, 2007, 05:19 AM
Same argument used and is true also for DW.

honestly they are both not accurate indicators of the popularity of distros.

simply a small sliver of a snapshot.

What I find annoying is how fanboys will put an once of validity into DW rankings when they themselves say they are not accurate and for entertainment purposes only.
Indeed, I've never understood why people seem so hung up any site as demonstrating popularity or quality of a product. If something works (or doesn't) the way you need/want it to who cares if it's at the top of a list on some random website.

RAV TUX
September 21st, 2007, 05:27 AM
Indeed, I've never understood why people seem so hung up any site as demonstrating popularity or quality of a product. If something works (or doesn't) the way you need/want it to who cares if it's at the top of a list on some random website.exactly, what works for the individual is the most important indicator of success for each one of us and our unique hardware, experience, etc.

afonic
September 21st, 2007, 02:14 PM
It is probably one of the worst indicators, not one of the best...

Just think about it, Ubuntu for example has such a huge mirror network that doesn't even display the torrent link in the download page, just select the version, your area and you download. Other distros offer both, others offer just torrents and so they would be very high. Even if per one hour there are 1000 downloads of Ubuntu and 50 of lets say Arch, if Arch distributes only by torrent then it will appear as more popular.

Also the torrent data, especially seeders / leechers doesn't mean much. If the average swarm speed is low these numbers will be higher and it doesn't mean the torrent is more popular. I can seed at 100Mbit/s and you'll be done in an hour or seed at 10KB/s and it will take you a day to get it increasing the numbers.

Plus, not all distros use this tracker. Most big ones have their own.

Generally I think if using Distrowatch to measure distro user base is one time wrong, using the torrents of some tracker is 10 times wrong.

RAV TUX
September 21st, 2007, 10:37 PM
It is probably one of the worst indicators, not one of the best...

Just think about it, Ubuntu for example has such a huge mirror network that doesn't even display the torrent link in the download page, just select the version, your area and you download. Other distros offer both, others offer just torrents and so they would be very high. Even if per one hour there are 1000 downloads of Ubuntu and 50 of lets say Arch, if Arch distributes only by torrent then it will appear as more popular.

Also the torrent data, especially seeders / leechers doesn't mean much. If the average swarm speed is low these numbers will be higher and it doesn't mean the torrent is more popular. I can seed at 100Mbit/s and you'll be done in an hour or seed at 10KB/s and it will take you a day to get it increasing the numbers.

Plus, not all distros use this tracker. Most big ones have their own.

Generally I think if using Distrowatch to measure distro user base is one time wrong, using the torrents of some tracker is 10 times wrong.

Again the only good indicator that LinuxTrack.org is for, is for LinuxTrack.org, thus the top distros are only for LinuxTrack.org reading any deeper into it then that is just plain silly ;)

afonic
September 22nd, 2007, 01:03 AM
Perhaps one the best indicators of the top distros, The top 10 most active Torrents on LinuxTracker.org:


...

RAV TUX
September 22nd, 2007, 01:32 AM
...






...and your point is?



If you don't know by now I am silly. ;)

afonic
September 22nd, 2007, 10:47 AM
Just that your last post is the complete opposite of the first one. :P

RAV TUX
September 22nd, 2007, 03:06 PM
Specifically for LinuxTracker.org, perhaps one the best indicators of the top distros, The top 10 most active Torrents on LinuxTracker.org:


http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=43962&d=1190337683
(http://linuxtracker.org/extras-stats.php)

(inspired by this post (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3400196&postcount=526))

Edited the opening statement to clarify for those who may miss understand.

Another words for the LinuxTracker.org website and as the title of the thread says: "Top 10 Most Active Torrents on LinuxTracker.org": Perhaps one of the best indicators for the top distros on LinuxTracker.org for the most active Torrents.

I could draw a picture but the image is sufficient.

Anthem
September 23rd, 2007, 05:48 AM
Torrents are absolutely the way to go... much better than mirrors.

That being said, I'd imagine that ShipIt alone makes for some problems in counting distros by downloads.

I don't know if they're still this way, but it used to be that Fedora/Suse could pretty much only be downloaded by torrent, because they were both 5 CDs. Ubuntu's 1-cd install is much easier on mirrors.

Erik Trybom
September 23rd, 2007, 09:30 AM
Could it be that Jacklab takes the first place because they have a link to LinuxTracker.org on their official page?

Another piece of statistics that tells us nothing.

afonic
September 23rd, 2007, 01:30 PM
There is no way to measure how many users a distro has by the downloads. Damn I have downloaded more than 50 distros but use just two. :P

RAV TUX
September 23rd, 2007, 05:57 PM
The title of the thread is:


Top 10 Most Active Torrents on LinuxTracker.org